Level synch = death of SWTOR

[ZavienUK]

For a moment there, I thought we were having a civilized discussion. My bad.

 

Way to dodge the question Kodrac

[kodrac]

Way to dodge the question Kodrac

 

You're not dragging me down to that level, noooo.

[SelinaH]

Eric told us it's planet wide debuff not just heroic area debuff, so it applies to whole planet, instances included.

I think we were discussing theoreticals. I understand how he told us it works, although I don't remember him specifying that all instances would be scaled to planet as well. That's... hmm. I did not expect them to do things that way. It's going to make those end-of-Chapter-3 fights on Korriban a bit ridiculous.

It was never about the "challenge level". Bonus missions basically unlocked after x amount of time as the game assumes you have done quests up to point X at that point.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't saying that bonus series are supposed to be inherently more challenging than normal planetary content, except insofar as higher-level content is generally tuned to present more challenge than lower-level content (due to characters having more and better abilities, etc.) If bonus series NPCs are scaled down to the level at which a character naturally at planetary level can handle them, then characters who are artificially synced down to that level (in other words, all of the players eligible to actually run the bonus series) are likely to find them far less challenging than on Live.

Had no indication against it either. Its called speculation.

Of course. I'm just throwing my own speculation back at you. If the devs can implement area sync for a planet, it's almost certain that they can also choose not to sync certain portions of the map.

[Kiesu]

True, but usually when a happy customer sees an unhappy customer blasting something or other about something they consider good, usually they come to their defense.

 

If there's 100 happy people and 10 unhappy people, why are 99 of the happy ones mute on this change? I find way more people ingame talking about it being bad, with only every so often someone coming up and saying they like it.

 

Surely that suggests something.

There has been plenty defenders, but the thing is, they are not repetitive. Usually the people who complain loudly in public places don't really take a no for an answer, as we can see from preacers on the streets IRL, or the other topic over there with the same people complaining for the 200th page with the same argument. Loads of randoms passed trough there with good word already, but quickly left after reading the same reply in different words for the tenth time.

Common man happy with his life rarely seeks a fight, and when the other party clearly refuses to see the other side of the coin, its pretty clear they have no interest in listening and go their separate way, while the preacher stays to preach.

[ZavienUK]

It's interesting to note that I'm not sure you know what you're replying to. I quoted you quoting someone else to ask this question. It's also interesting to note that, with the level cap increase incoming at the same time, that person soloing that 50 heroic will get full xp for doing it, thusly not only preserving their current progression, but advancing it as well, until they hit the new cap, anyway. They will be in there with the exact same skill set they had previously, barring any changes made to the base classes, sync notwithstanding.

 

Apologies, it is rather hard to keep track here.

 

If it was as straightforward as that, that sounds pretty good. But they will be trying to solo the level 50 heroic at (level synced) level 50. No amount of abilities gained after level 50 is going to allow a level 50 to solo level 50 h4.

[robertthebard]

Apologies, it is rather hard to keep track here.

 

If it was as straightforward as that, that sounds pretty good. But they will be trying to solo the level 50 heroic at (level synced) level 50. No amount of abilities gained after level 50 is going to allow a level 50 to solo level 50 h4.

 

No worries.

 

I don't recall where I saw it, but didn't they say they were scaling back the heroics as part of this change? It gets confusing to keep track, but I'd almost swear I'd seen that referenced.

[ZavienUK]

Yea. The system was totally flawless before amirite

ohwait it wasnt

That means... they shouldnt have made the previous system either aaaaaaah mind blown

 

Just because it was fine for you before doesnt mean it was flawless or non-issue for anyone. Just because you dont like new system doesnt mean it doesnt "work properly" either. It works just as well as before, just differently

 

I never suggested it was flawless, and your missing the point here. The discussion about "doesn't work properly" was related to problems that were brought up by another poster with regard to making it optional.

[kodrac]

No worries.

 

I don't recall where I saw it, but didn't they say they were scaling back the heroics as part of this change? It gets confusing to keep track, but I'd almost swear I'd seen that referenced.

 

H4s have been changed to H2s.

[SelinaH]

No worries.

 

I don't recall where I saw it, but didn't they say they were scaling back the heroics as part of this change? It gets confusing to keep track, but I'd almost swear I'd seen that referenced.

During the Livestream, when Eric was using the terminal to select and port to a Heroic, the list of available Heroics did not seem to have any Heroic-4s.

[robertthebard]

H4s have been changed to H2s.

 

Well, that alleviates my concerns about the BH and SI early Chapt 2 quests on DK then. I can solo those at level if I'm only half geared.

[ZavienUK]

...and I'll ask you the same question I asked Max: You do understand what griefing means, yes? You do understand that, by the very definition, they are depriving some one else of enjoyment of the game, or it wouldn't be griefing, right?

 

Umm yes thats exactly what I said, I actually went back through my post history to find what I said. I said:

 

"Griefing by it's very definition is depriving others of enjoyment. Or to put it another way, one person having fun at another's expense."

 

So you just quoted back to me exactly what I said in the first place. I'm confused what exactly your asking here or what the point is your making.

[Kiesu]

You misunderstand me. I wasn't saying that bonus series are supposed to be inherently more challenging than normal planetary content, except insofar as higher-level content is generally tuned to present more challenge than lower-level content (due to characters having more and better abilities, etc.) If bonus series NPCs are scaled down to the level at which a character naturally at planetary level can handle them, then characters who are artificially synced down to that level (in other words, all of the players eligible to actually run the bonus series) are likely to find them far less challenging than on Live.

I have to say I disagree with that, you have gotten maybe one or max two new abilities when moving from planet quest to bonus series, you get new abilities very slowly during the middle lvls. Unless you're a marauder (they got shítton on abilities). Having one extra CC or regen on my bar makes very little difference when fighting a mob of my lvl on a slightly higher area.

 

Of course. I'm just throwing my own speculation back at you. If the devs can implement area sync for a planet, it's almost certain that they can also choose not to sync certain portions of the map.

Why would they though then their intention was to remake all quest rewards? A button to move to completely separate unsynced planet instancewith no rewards would make more sense here than having areas that were suddenly unsynced.

[Transairion]

Also, not empirical data.

 

Then what is?

 

The "survery" Bioware took that said the most requested race for SWTOR was Cathar? A race that hasn't appeared in any of the movies or either Clone Wars series?

 

A race I'd never even heard of before SWTOR? Most requested my ***. Easiest to implement more like.

 

86% of statistics are made up. 100% on this forum

.

 

If I say "the majority of people I have talked to/would reply to me" then I'm sure you'd take issue with that too.

 

 

In this case then nobody has any data at all, if the opposing side just dismisses it as being invalid anyway.

 

The forums tend not to go into a sh*tstorm about stuff people are happy about though.

[ZavienUK]

Also what i don't understand is why do we have a test server ?

For testing and reporting bugs ? maybe ? i guess not ?

 

Because currently subscribers can not access it, which makes it totally useless and after the bugs are released in 4.0 bioware will start banning people for doing stuff that they didn't know it was a bug.

 

World boss on alderaan is level 35 and level sync gives you level 32, so even if you group up with 15 people it will be very hard to kill world boss.

 

For whatever reason they decided not to have a public beta test. That is their prerogative.

[Shipwright]

Instead of Syncing, why can't we just have a Mentoring system?

 

I was thinking of Rift in connection with this. I don't play it anymore as there is just something dull about the combat. Maybe it is the animations. It just feels somehow "clunky" to me, and I found the need to constantly carry tons of potions with me for health regen out of combat to be more and more irritating ( out of combat health regen is mind numbingly slow and I found it very annoying).

 

Anyway, Rift has a mentoring system. You select your "ascended mentoring level" when you want change your level. It was actually a great system, I thought.

 

FFVIX has a slightly different one. If you join a group for an open world group event, you are leveled down if you're higher than event level. That system, however, removes any skills, etc, that are attained at a level higher then the down scale.

 

In any case, I'd say at this point that there will be no option. Furthermore, I rather expect that after it hits, we will see demands for more severe down scaling. Loss of skills, passives, or just a greater reduction in the overall "power" of down leveled players. I do not think this is over.

[Kiesu]

The forums tend not to go into a sh*tstorm about stuff people are happy about though.

Only a few people keeping the show up anyway. It might be a rain of tomato throwing, but its rather the case of just a few people coming over with a very big crate of tomatoes to make the rain look bigger.

[robertthebard]

Umm yes thats exactly what I said, I actually went back through my post history to find what I said. I said:

 

"Griefing by it's very definition is depriving others of enjoyment. Or to put it another way, one person having fun at another's expense."

 

So you just quoted back to me exactly what I said in the first place. I'm confused what exactly your asking here or what the point is your making.

 

Yes, you quoted a guy that quoted Max saying this:

 

I meant what I said.

 

As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game, I don't care.

 

It's a game, it's about having fun.

 

So, since you seem to want to defend Max here, explain to me how a griefer isn't depriving a player of their fun. Since we both seem to share the same definition of the term, it should be fairly easy for you to explain.

[Transairion]

Only a few people keeping the show up anyway. It might be a rain of tomato throwing, but its rather the case of just a few people coming over with a very big crate of tomatoes to make the rain look bigger.

 

From what I've seen there's only a few people in the opposite camp as well.

 

But it isn't like the same person is making 30 different topics either, most were made by individuals. People like me just want to add to, and remove obvious dismissive bias the discussion instead of being ignored entirely.

 

 

I don't expect anything to change, naturally. Most everything that has been datamined or leaked has come true since like 2.0, the most notable I recall NOT coming true was a silver Dread HK skin from Oricon that never made it ingame.

 

Doesn't mean I should just wait for it to end like a guy waiting for the guillotine to drop either, if they're gonna kill part of my playstyle they should know why I'm unhappy about it.

[robertthebard]

Only a few people keeping the show up anyway. It might be a rain of tomato throwing, but its rather the case of just a few people coming over with a very big crate of tomatoes to make the rain look bigger.

 

I'm using Cherry tomatoes, so I can carry more in my crate...

[ZavienUK]

You're not dragging me down to that level, noooo.

 

Sorry you see it like that. He said:

 

"As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game, I don't care"

 

To which you replied:

 

"I'm sure griefers and exploiters have fun griefing and exploiting too. Still don't care?"

 

This suggested you had completely failed to read his post, being that griefing is by it's very definition depriving others of enjoyment. I asked if this was because you were too eager to hit reply so you could make a snarky comment or because you were trolling him. Perhaps that was a little harsh, but you haven't provided an alternative explanation either. Perhaps you just misunderstood his post, that's ok, but if you don't explain, it only leaves me to assume the worst scenario.

[ZavienUK]

No worries.

 

I don't recall where I saw it, but didn't they say they were scaling back the heroics as part of this change? It gets confusing to keep track, but I'd almost swear I'd seen that referenced.

 

I think there was suggestion that people saw in the stream heroics that were H4 had been changed to H2, but whether than applies across the board I don't know.

[ZavienUK]

H4s have been changed to H2s.

 

Every single one? Got a source for that? If that's true that actually reduces one concern about this system being mandatory somewhat.

[VarKoE]

From what I've seen there's only a few people in the opposite camp as well.

 

But it isn't like the same person is making 30 different topics either, most were made by individuals. People like me just want to add to, and remove obvious dismissive bias the discussion instead of being ignored entirely.

 

 

I don't expect anything to change, naturally. Most everything that has been datamined or leaked has come true since like 2.0, the most notable I recall NOT coming true was a silver Dread HK skin from Oricon that never made it ingame.

 

Doesn't mean I should just wait for it to end like a guy waiting for the guillotine to drop either, if they're gonna kill part of my playstyle they should know why I'm unhappy about it.

 

They are probably tone deaf on this right now. When it rolls out however. They will be listening. bet on it.

[kodrac]

Then what is?

Conjecture; assumption

 

The "survery" Bioware took that said the most requested race for SWTOR was Cathar? A race that hasn't appeared in any of the movies or either Clone Wars series?

 

A race I'd never even heard of before SWTOR? Most requested my ***. Easiest to implement more like.

 

Didn't play KOTOR? The game that this is the spiritual successor to? KOTOR fans play this game too.

 

If I say "the majority of people I have talked to/would reply to me" then I'm sure you'd take issue with that too.

 

In this case then nobody has any data at all, if the opposing side just dismisses it as being invalid anyway.

 

You're right we don't. My 86%/100% might have been snark, but the point was you made that number up to fit your needs. And your circle of friends biases you.

[Kiesu]

From what I've seen there's only a few people in the opposite camp as well.

 

But it isn't like the same person is making 30 different topics either, most were made by individuals. People like me just want to add to, and remove obvious dismissive bias the discussion instead of being ignored entirely.

Like I said, people in the opposite camp just don't preach and rather pop in and out again posting message or two and get out again, while these chosen few seem to sit here most of their day.

Topics were made by both parties, and after BW merged all of the topics and asked them to discuss the matter in the merged ones, the sensible people quitted making new threads alltogether.

 

Doesn't mean I should just wait for it to end like a guy waiting for the guillotine to drop either, if they're gonna kill part of my playstyle they should know why I'm unhappy about it.

Unless you were posting about your opinion before i popped in, you didnt actually voice your unhappiness, but rather quoted people you "interviewed" thinking this or that instead of speaking about any personal feelings. This is why i replied in the first place, because of the assumption of noisiness being majority for some reason.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu