Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Strahl]

I don't think a change this big sits well with a game thats already been running for some years, so many things that could go wrong, I'm personally not looking forward to it either, don't like the idea itself (I played GW2, so I know I don't), I think the resources are wasted in something thats not necessary, I will wait, see and then probably drop to preferred status.

 

Cheers, and do try to stay civilized guys, no need to bash others just because their opinions are different.

[Dalagante]

Opinion or not, what I listed was fact. The only opinion part is who knows best or not. I'm not sold BW is the one to know whats best given their past actions.

 

 

 

Because the whole game isn't flawed. Just portions. Just like down scalingof everyone level simply because they log in. Another portion of SWTOR that is flawed where if it was opional, both sides of this would have been rather pleased.

 

 

 

Really whats forced on every single player in the game? I don't have to craft. I don't have to PVP, I don't have to run ops or FPS. I don't even have to pick as AC if I don't want to.

 

So what is forced as a game play feature that affects everyone in the game like this?

 

It you want to think it is bad then that is your opinion. You haven't played it so you have no idea what it's like so again your opinion is based on nothing but your desire for it to be bad. An opinion based on no information is almost always a poor and wrong opinion. I am sorry but your teacher were wrong opinions can be wrong. The only thing that can make an opinion not wrong is if they are based on fact. That being said they can't make it optional because of the rewards given for it. If they going to give out level 65 rewards experience etc for doing level 18 content than they can't make it level 18 content anymore. So they could either level the mobs to your level or downgrade you level. Since the area isn't instant than the only option is to downgrade you.

[Quraswren]

The only reason you're not sold is because you don't like it personally. BW have to take the whole player base into account full well knowing that some will always hate whatever they do.

 

Shows you haven't really beed reading or not been here long. I think the down scaling is a decent idea as an optional game player feature for those that want it. Kinda like FF14. You want to participate in that event. Go there and get scaled. If you don't, continue about your way.

 

It's got nothing to do with what they do but how they designed it.

 

I am not talking about the game being flawed.

 

Thats Ok, I am, because it is.

 

I am talking about people complaining about apparently the same stuff for 4 years...how many years have to pass before you realise it's a waste of time or energy. Oh though on the up side clipping on mounts is being fixed.

 

It's never a waste to bring up flaws in a game you play. It helps set the tone and stage for whats going on. There is no amount of time in the business industry where things like what we have mentioned should be forgotten or let go. They set a precedent and are important to remember.

 

You also don't have to play. But if you want something, you have to do something for it. You want to go to Alderaan, you need to travel there. You want to sell something on the GTN, you have to pay a fee. You want to be level 60? Well you will have level through the other levels first..or soon buy it with real money. But you only get the choice that are given to you by BW, no matter what you do. Died? You have to repair or your armour starts working. Oh you do have to wear armour or you can't progress anymore. etc...

 

[You wanna create a character? You have to pick a class. Picke a class? You only get to play that class with the assigned weapons.Lots of choice...but you don't get the human hairstyles on a cyborg.... literally the game is full of limitations. etc again...

 

So nothing really forced like down leveling is. Got ya. Glad you understand that.

[Kiesu]

It you want to think it is bad then that is your opinion. You haven't played it so you have no idea what it's like so again your opinion is based on nothing but your desire for it to be bad.

Indeed. If the sync is indeed terribad I promise I will be coming back to the forums and complain about it just as hard as people are complaining speculation right now. Right now though I feel no need to bash this change, I'd have to try it before forming final opinion.

[Tsillah]

So nothing really forced like down leveling is. Got ya. Glad you understand that.

 

Everything is forced in some shape or form. This is no exception. You want to call the sky red instead of blue, that's fine with me. Chances are I will have more fun with 4.0 than you will and that works for me.

[Dalagante]

I don't think a change this big sits well with a game thats already been running for some years, so many things that could go wrong, I'm personally not looking forward to it either, don't like the idea itself (I played GW2, so I know I don't), I think the resources are wasted in something thats not necessary, I will wait, see and then probably drop to preferred status.

 

Cheers, and do try to stay civilized guys, no need to bash others just because their opinions are different.

 

Again you might not like the concept but doesn't mean this works like GW2 level sync. The concept is the same but doesn't mean how it works is the same. I think the only intelligent thing is to approach it with an open mind and see how it works because until you try it you don't know for sure. You only make assumption based on 3 year old system that wasn't even designed same company. It would be like saying I drive an kia's luxury car from 3 years ago and saying I now know I don't like any luxury car. That would be a foolish and uninformed statement. Now I am not saying you will like it but assumption you won't like it could actually end up being the only real reason you don't. If you actually went in with an open mind you would know one way or the other. The problem is if people go in with oh I am not going to like it they won't because our minds are great a confirming our biases.

[Faelandaea]

Indeed. If the sync is indeed terribad I promise I will be coming back to the forums and complain about it just as hard as people are complaining speculation right now. Right now though I feel no need to bash this change, I'd have to try it before forming final opinion.

 

WHAT!? TRY something BEFORE deciding everything about it???? How DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quraswren]

Then whats the problem. Just overgear current level dailys It'll be just as much content as you had on 50cap, with same playstyle without sync!

 

Non optioal down leveling. Thats the problem. Given nothing seems to change all that much except maybe a world boss and some experience you give to a friend IF you go help them. It's a game play feature gamers should decide to use or not. It' didn't need to be forced.

 

You are putting words in my mouth. Scaling is not "needed", the game works fine without it, but it is welcome change, as i can now use my main to do old content without facerolling it. I like the idea of bossmobs actually now being worth caution no matter what level you are.

 

It's a welcome change as an option. Not as forced. I like old world bosses that can be soloed if you want or grouped if you want more. No different than FP getting a solo mode or group mode.

 

Optional and more choices is the better design. Not some forced down leveling.

 

And yes, preach your optional, got nothing against that. Just offering the good sides of this deal, and/or tips on how dislikers can to overcome them if not made optional.

 

Optional is the better deal here given the forced option doesn't really bring much to the table that we didn't already have. Neat feature if you want to play it but not always needed. Of course I'll preach that.

[Dalagante]

Indeed. If the sync is indeed terribad I promise I will be coming back to the forums and complain about it just as hard as people are complaining speculation right now. Right now though I feel no need to bash this change, I'd have to try it before forming final opinion.

 

I would say be careful of confirmation biased. If you go in thinking you won't like it studies have shown this will influence your opinion of it. Personally I can't know what I will think of it one way or the other. All change isn't bad. I like not living in the cave and having to kill everything I eat .

[Quraswren]

Everything is forced in some shape or form. This is no exception. You want to call the sky red instead of blue, that's fine with me.

Nothing is forced like this when it comes to this kind of game play. You're not that obtuse.

 

and sometimes the sky does get red where I live in the evenings.

 

Chances are I will have more fun with 4.0 than you will and that works for me.

 

Of course you would think that way. Screw the other gamers right? It's all about you.

 

However, an optional feature would encompass more gamers to find enjoyment. Enjoyment that have had for years now and well thats just not something you can get behind is it? Everyone having a good time.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Quraswren

[higginsjf]

Like other things that have come in its hard to see the joy in this. why most have one may be two toons. Some like me might have all 8 class to cap. So what is the time frame for going to 60-65. I feel this is a key point. Cause your selling points are we gain xp. Like your hole 50 caped legacy. Have you looked at this at all. Form what I seen you show the hole twitch con and this last stream not one of you all open the mail box on that fresh 60. If there another Catina code coming that well add another shot at major xp boots. Thats not counting the ones I have come across when doing old planet bounce and the case. Could have add the factors of flash point and even the conquest to show there more then us going to level but keep our skills and stuff:confused:

[Strahl]

Again you might not like the concept but doesn't mean this works like GW2 level sync. The concept is the same but doesn't mean how it works is the same. I think the only intelligent thing is to approach it with an open mind and see how it works because until you try it you don't know for sure. You only make assumption based on 3 year old system that wasn't even designed same company. It would be like saying I drive an kia's luxury car from 3 years ago and saying I now know I don't like any luxury car. That would be a foolish and uninformed statement. Now I am not saying you will like it but assumption you won't like it could actually end up being the only real reason you don't. If you actually went in with an open mind you would know one way or the other. The problem is if people go in with oh I am not going to like it they won't because our minds are great a confirming our biases.

 

Thats why I said I will wait and see their implementation of the idea and not saying I'm unsuscribing already, but you are right I'm slightly biased about it.

 

Cheers.

[ChrispyBass]

Non optioal down leveling. Thats the problem. Given nothing seems to change all that much except maybe a world boss and some experience you give to a friend IF you go help them. It's a game play feature gamers should decide to use or not. It' didn't need to be forced.

 

 

 

It's a welcome change as an option. Not as forced. I like old world bosses that can be soloed if you want or grouped if you want more. No different than FP getting a solo mode or group mode.

 

Optional and more choices is the better design. Not some forced down leveling.

 

 

 

Optional is the better deal here given the forced option doesn't really bring much to the table that we didn't already have. Neat feature if you want to play it but not always needed. Of course I'll preach that.

 

Optional is not the best of both worlds, that would just cause issues and bugs. The system is for the Heroics so that players receive equivalent rewards and xp to their current level. The ONLY thing you're "losing" out on is seeing grey nameplates. You won't get knocked off your speeder unless maybe you afk, you won't have any issues clearing mobs in heroic areas, you might need a group for a world boss (but that makes more sense than soloing WORLD BOSSES).

 

If you don't like the system, then don't do old heroics. THAT'S optional.

If people are this upset, then just leave. This is seriously going being blown way out of proportion and people are freaking out over "literally" nothing.

Edited October 2, 2015 by ChrispyBass

[Tsillah]

Nothing is forced like this when it comes to this kind of game play. You're not that obtuse.

 

and sometimes the sky does get red where I live in the evenings.

 

Oh it's different because it's forced in a special way that makes it all different. Call me obtuse if you want, I will just say you're splitting hairs.

 

Of course you would think that way. Screw the other gamers right? It's all about you.

 

Hahaha, that's rich...do you think you can claim what's best for everybody? I don't, so the only thing that matters is what it does for me. That's only natural. What I don't do however is expect BW to budge at my every desire. I know I don't always get what I want and that's ok. It's that acceptance that makes it work for me, otherwise I wouldn't be here anymore.

 

So clearly you've learned to accept a few things, because you're still here. You'll either accept this or go away I would think.

 

However, an optional feature would encompass more gamers to find enjoyment. Enjoyment that have had for years now and well thats just not something you can get behind is it? Everyone having a good time.

 

If there was a viable option that makes sense that would be fine with me. I haven't seen it yet but if it's there I'm fine with that. The only thing I have a problem with is how people here use a lot of false reasoning to further their emotions. If BW finds a viable way to make it work both ways, I would be perfectly fine with that....but that's a big if from where I'm sitting.

[Dalagante]

Optional and more choices is the better design. Not some forced down leveling.

 

Actually research has shown options only decrease happiness in both the short term and long term for most people. Personally I prefer options but again I have the intelligence to realize I don't know everything and can't give an opinion on something until I have actually experience it with an open mind. Having an strong opinion about something from a place of ignorance really says more about you than the item you are talking about which you have never experienced.

[Quraswren]

Optional is not the best of both worlds, that would just cause issues and bugs.

 

In what capacity that isn't already being mentioned just because it is forced. Bonus areas that are higher level than the planet? GSI stuff that is higher than the planet? Quests that send you back but are highere level than the planet? Those kindas of issuse with it being implemented?

 

I see more problems with down leveling being there than if it was out all together but I see the merits of it. It just needs to be optional.

 

The system is for the Heroics so that players receive equivalent rewards and xp to their current level.

 

Easily done and handled from teh terminal that hands out all heroics and teleports you to them.

Also easily handled as an optional feature that if you go to a planet, you are asked to down level or not before stepping out.

 

One way or another you get a buff or debuff that grants rewards based on having it or not. Not everyone needs to be down leveled to accomplish the same heroic instance goals.

 

The ONLY thing you're "losing" out on is seeing grey nameplates. You won't get knocked off your speeder unless maybe you afk, you won't have any issues clearing mobs in heroic areas, you might need a group for a world boss (but that makes more sense than soloing WORLD BOSSES).

 

I think the first things you mentioned are actually more likely to happen. You're just not going to resist things as you used to when you are down leveled.

 

Would bosses could easily be changed so that they need a group without down leveling everyone that steps on the planet.

 

If you don't like the system, then don't do old heroics. THAT'S optional.

 

That it is.

[Kiesu]

...doesn't really bring much to the table that we didn't already have...

Disagreed strongly. I havent been able to lvl with friends new characters in forever because my server character slots are completely full of max-lvs, and I dont want to kill their xp gain or gaming experience by running along being allpowerful.

Havent been able to do old content at all without faceroll because constant over-lv.

Can now group for stuff with lowbies.

Yes, all the content is the same as we already had, except now they have some point doing on higer lv too.

Would bosses could easily be changed so that they need a group without down leveling everyone that steps on the planet..

How would that happen? Make the WBs lv 65? Even more content off lowbies. Require tankswap? ok take two 60 to do it wow such change. Make it so if you're 10lv over the boss you cant even engage it? Well that's a slap in the face if something is, I'll take sync ty wm.

[Quraswren]

Disagreed strongly. I havent been able to lvl with friends new characters in forever because my server character slots are completely full of max-lvs, and I dont want to kill their xp gain or gaming experience by running along being allpowerful.

 

And could be done if down leveling was optional. My experince is different however, no one I know gives a rats *** about the experince, they just want it done. They want the higher level to bust a move and get them through it.

 

Havent been able to do old content at all without faceroll because constant over-lv.

 

Then put the challenge on yourself. Take off some gear.

Can now group for stuff with lowbies.

and still done it with optional choice. Could have still done it without

 

Yes, all the content is the same as we already had, except now they have some point doing on higer lv too.

At max lev your getting nothing but some basic comms. Not a real high incentive at that point to run 4 year old content In my eyes. given you're going to face roll it anyway.

 

How would that happen? Make the WBs lv 65? Even more content off lowbies. Require tankswap? ok take two 60 to do it wow such change. Make it so if you're 10lv over the boss you cant even engage it? Well that's a slap in the face if something is, I'll take sync ty wm.

 

Do it like plague tunnels. Whoever pulls thats the level of the mob. If your in a group, whoever pulls the the group, everyone is scaled at that point from a debuff the boss gives. As far as classes that show up, well thats always been on the gamer to decide. Down leveling wont change that.

 

Actually research has shown options only decrease happiness in both the short term and long term for most people.

 

your going to have to post some links to prove that because in every industry I know. More options make happier customers.

 

Personally I prefer options but again I have the intelligence to realize I don't know everything and can't give an opinion on something until I have actually experience it with an open mind. Having an strong opinion about something from a place of ignorance really says more about you than the item you are talking about which you have never experienced.

 

I'm intelligent enough to know what down leveling is. Watched the video and released information. Played enough MMOs and games with leveling systems to make formulate a really solid idea on whats going on well before needing to play it. Ideas based on information we have and not from ignorance.

 

Just as in this case, you wont need to experience it first hand to understand what it's doing and if it would be something you enjoy or not. You'd have to be rather unintelligent to not read the information we have and watch the video and then still not be able to make a decision but sit on a "lets wait and see" ideal.

[FerkWork]

I like these changes. Relevant rewards is dank. Finally a unified system for heroics and other lowbie stuff. Don't see the issue. Now if you allow us to buff the WB like DT to make them even harder that would be also appreciated.

[TravelersWay]

What I haven't seen yet though are any good ideas how to do it differently that wouldn't mess up the new set up or the fun of other players who are looking forward to this. I could be on board for a hybrid situation, but yeh, haven't seen an actual viable idea yet.

In all reality, what is this system going to solve if it is mandatory?

 

People have already brought up some good points, like ganking and WBs. But those are issues that are actually better solved through other methods other than level syncing, especially in the form that we witnessed on the livestream. Capping nodes? Not really going to change. Adding challenge? Again, doesn't look to do it to any significant extant. Encourage grouping? Not really.

 

Looking at this from the practical perspective, a lot of the game has been, and looks to continue to be, made more solo friendly than just about any MMO out there. Therefore, people are not looking to group up aren't going to suddenly be inspired to group because they suddenly hit that brick wall in a piece of content where they are forced to find a group because they can't solo that content, and the option to vastly over-level it is removed. They'll just end up not doing that content.

 

From all appearances at this point in time, and pretty much straight from Eric's mouth, those scaled Heroics can still be soloed. Therefore, where is the incentive to group for them? There is none. People who are naturally inclined to group will still do so. Those who aren't, well we already said that they won't. One can say that with high levels coming back to do the scaled versions for the new rewards will add to the potential grouping pool, but again - if they can be soloed, why would someone group for them if they don't have to? Of course, the higher the level of the content, the more a group may be necessary, but since level syncing will be less and less of a disparity the higher the level the player, syncing will not help finding groups for any of the high level/end game content outside of the Ops and tacticals. So in the end, the forced level syncing in the open world will do very little at best to encourage grouping.

 

Let's also not forget the fact that we have the forced accelerated leveling pace to go along with the forced grouping, so we will now have players blazing through content, and more than likely skipping a lot of the side content (like Heroics) on their way to max level. So those who are taking their time and desiring to enjoy the content at a normal pace will find fewer and fewer people to play with along the way and also find themselves vastly overleveled for the content they are playing, necessitating them to purposely gimp themselves to maintain the level of challenge they are looking for (i.e. not gaining skills and not using any new equipment they get - unless of course they use it for purely cosmetic purposes - oh yes, that's right - they can use CC to buy appearance tabs. Hmmmm, quite interesting that). In all reality, BW might just as well not even bothered with the forced level acceleration and syncing and just maintained 12x as a permanent feature and kept the White Acute Module as the opt out. It would have saved them a lot of time and trouble.

 

Now what about those problems others have mentioned. I have already proposed solutions to those that don't require level scaling at all, let alone forced level scaling - http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8476602&postcount=1502

Let me also add another possible solution for the Heroic/WB issue that can make use of scaling - simply have scaling kick in only when the character enters the appropriate Heroic area. We already have the automatic trigger for the PvP flag in PvP designated areas, so it shouldn't be much of an issue to toggle the scaling on when characters enter any Heroic area. Not my ideal solution because that still causes it to be a forced system in those areas, but nonetheless a much better solution than the carte blanche forced system we have on its way.

Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Quraswren]

Oh it's different because it's forced in a special way that makes it all different. Call me obtuse if you want, I will just say you're splitting hairs.

 

If you think down levleing eveyrone is the same as the other things you mention. You are being more than obtuse. You're being foolish.

 

Hahaha, that's rich...do you think you can claim what's best for everybody?

 

given the current situation and debate which of the 2 would have been better for more gamers?

 

A forced down leveling for everyone that screws up how gamers have been playing for nearly 4 years all so BW can rehash 4 year old content. Making world bosses unsoloable.

OR

An optional game play feature that allows the gamers to deside how they want to play that night. Solo a world boss? Have at it. Destroy mobs on a planet as you farm whatever? Have at it. You want to help a friend, turn on down leveling and have at it. You want a group challenge and better reward for heroics or WB, turn on down leveling and have at it.

 

There is a better version of this and it's not the forced one.

 

I don't, so the only thing that matters is what it does for me. That's only natural. What I don't do however is expect BW to budge at my every desire. I know I don't always get what I want and that's ok. It's that acceptance that makes it work for me, otherwise I wouldn't be here anymore.

 

I don't expect BW to change things for just me. I do however expect them to cast the net wider than what they have when it comes to design choices. When I run across something as this and if it should be an option or not, I look at things like 12X and see BW at least has some small grasp of reality and how gamers are. They made that optional.

 

This is no different. It should have been optional from the beginning on design day one.

 

So clearly you've learned to accept a few things, because you're still here. You'll either accept this or go away I would think.

 

God no. I don't accept this. It's just one aspect of SWTOR thats flawed among others while parts of the over all game are still OK. So far, I see no reason to accept it as it is currently designed and forced.

 

If there was a viable option that makes sense that would be fine with me. I haven't seen it yet but if it's there I'm fine with that. The only thing I have a problem with is how people here use a lot of false reasoning to further their emotions. If BW finds a viable way to make it work both ways, I would be perfectly fine with that....but that's a big if from where I'm sitting.

 

I'm curious, what false reasoning have you seen? I can't say I've ran across anything anyone has said thats just flat out false.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Quraswren

[Tachenko_Yuri]

lol optional, so people can just remove it and carry on roflstomping?

 

trolololololo

[Quraswren]

lol optional, so people can just remove it and carry on roflstomping?

 

trolololololo

 

I take it you didn't watch to video.

 

Looks like we are roflstomping with or without it as one punch or 3 makes little difference anyway. Your point?

[Kiesu]

And could be done if down leveling was optional. My experince is different however, no one I know gives a rats *** about the experince, they just want it done. They want the higher level to bust a move and get them through it.

Excuse me if I dont belong to your immediate range of people you know like doing stuff one way. The only time anyone wanted me to just kill everything for them was random gear run trough fp, and then they ditched me after because boring just following, and i dont blame them I feel the same way.

 

Then put the challenge on yourself. Take off some gear.

Yea. I went to do Nar Shadda bonus missions naked. Still couldnt touch me.

Its not the gear that makes you OP when doing low lv content, its your level.

 

and still done it with optional choice. Could have still done it without

Optional again. I'm talking in terms of if it wasnt.

 

At max lev your getting nothing but some basic comms. Not a real high incentive at that point to run 4 year old content In my eyes. given you're going to face roll it anyway.

Then why are you so upset about sync if you see no point in doing the 4y old content anyway? You dont seem to care much, so why stop on my enjoyment if I do want to do it and am happy to get something out of it too. You can chill on fleet while I do alderaan heroics with lowbies

 

Do it like plague tunnels. Whoever pulls thats the level of the mob. If your in a group, whoever pulls the the group, everyone is scaled at that point from a debuff the boss gives. As far as classes that show up, well thats always been on the gamer to decide. Down leveling wont change that.

How does this change lv60 facerolling the content? Just have lv 20 pull and nail it on 60 works in tunnels too

 

Actually research has shown options only decrease happiness in both the short term and long term for most people.

your going to have to post some links to prove that because in every industry I know. More options make happier customers.

To be fair, having TOO MUCH options is what decreases happiness according to research. Choosing between hm/sm FP or synced/unsynced planet is hardly too much.

 

Just as in this case, you wont need to experience it first hand to understand what it's doing and if it would be something you enjoy or not. You'd have to be rather unintelligent to not read the information we have and watch the video and then still not be able to make a decision but sit on a "lets wait and see" ideal.

And people were so sure a million things to this day would kill swtor. Kill it I tell you! And they understood the changes, by their words, and oh look its still not dead hmmmm

I'm one of the people who disagreed on F2P, today i approve of it as it works fine despite my low expectations. Sure, there is still f2p ninjas and spammers and whathave you but it was a low inconvenience compared to the amount of great players that came in because of it. I am expecting this is how sync will work out too. Half player base terrified, after playing it it prolly wont be as bad as speculated.

If it is, well I promise to come back and complain about it then.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu

[TravelersWay]

I take it you didn't watch to video.

 

Looks like we are roflstomping with or without it as one punch or 3 makes little difference anyway. Your point?

 

And it's not like that roflstomping hasn't been a viable method of playing RPGs for the, oh I don't know - last 3 or 4 decades at least.

 

I usually ignore the trolls in threads, but I find it very interesting that most of the infantile responses in this thread come from those in favor of the level scaling system in an attempt to berate those who are looking for other options, or flat out don't like the current proposed implementation.

 

And people still wonder why grouping is going the way of the dinosaur in MMOs? Methinks those most in favor of the traditional MMO tropes are the ones doing the actual killing of said MMO tropes and it's not the "filthy casuals" at all.