Future Merc pains

[FourPawnBenoni]

I can just forsee this already:

 

"Great, I got this new escape move to avoid these three guys that just jumped me in this arena" - Boom jump back 20m

 

"What the??? All those guys just lept/teleported/charged/ right back to me and my hydraulic overrides still have 30 seconds of cool down"

 

"I'm dead"

 

 

I don't see how the 20m escape will help at all with Merc survivability if practically every other class has a new gap closer anyway...seems like same issues will be there

Edited September 27, 2015 by FourPawnBenoni

[AmarantKando]

This is exactly my problem with the 4.0 changes. They give every class something usefull, except for Mandos/Mercs. I just don't understand, and if these changes do go live, I'm not sure if I will keep playing on my mando. Probably not.

[Floplag]

it wont help, at all, they gave us what we wanted but then gave everyone else moves to counter it, it isnt even a zero sum its a negative sum result

We will likely be worse off than we are now due to other nerfs and other skills given to other classes, and i didnt think that was possible.

i wont be pvping, ill play the story then go back to something else with better PvP

Edited September 27, 2015 by Floplag

[Lhancelot]

What they didn't mention is, the jumping back ability will ALSO include a constant hovering in the air for 10 secs, high above the combat where the merc cannot be targeted or attacked by anyone.

 

Seriously. you'd save yourself a lot of anguish if you just stopped playing this class altogether. That or just stick to regs where it does good.

 

Thinking this class will ever be able to participate effectively in a 4v4 setup is like being in hell and expecting ice water to be served.

[Transcendent]

I don't see how the 20m escape will help at all with Merc survivability if practically every other class has a new gap closer anyway...seems like same issues will be there

 

They'll be more pronounced, because nerfed HO / HtL due to sonic powertechs. I mean, increase the CD for Powertechs / Vanguards, no issue with that. For Merc / Mando players to get caught in that nerf, just shows the ignorance of the combat team.

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

For Merc / Mando players to get caught in that nerf, just shows the ignorance of the combat team.

Sadly, it's not the first time Mercs get a bystander nerf because of Powertechs.

 

That being said, no pains. Like, at all. Right now I'm transferring all my comms to my Sorc, 'cause if you can't beat them - join them.

[Lhancelot]

Sadly, it's not the first time Mercs get a bystander nerf because of Powertechs.

 

That being said, no pains. Like, at all. Right now I'm transferring all my comms to my Sorc, 'cause if you can't beat them - join them.

 

^^^ Obviously NOT a masochist! Anyone that sticks with a commando or merc, especially in ranked has to be...

[Glower]

New merc ability: move through time and space right into resp point!

 

 

 

 

I love this quote:

I mean there is now a class that has 35m attacks a speed boost, a bubble, a super immunity bubble that you can move in, a 60m teleport that makes you immune to everything and still crazy burst.

 

mercs can jump back 20m before they die

 

With all this new mobility, have they changed any of the PVP maps, no.

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by Glower

[SlightlySychotic]

This is exactly my problem with the 4.0 changes. They give every class something usefull, except for Mandos/Mercs. I just don't understand, and if these changes do go live, I'm not sure if I will keep playing on my mando. Probably not.

 

Mad Dash is useful? Maybe, if you don't screw up the range or the person you're aiming at doesn't, you know, move slightly.

Juggs are getting jack **** in 4.0. Classes that already have better mobility than we do are getting abilities as good as anything we have. Hell, even if they were getting nothing Mad Dash and our new root break (with no immunity attached) just barely put us on par with force speed, roll, and buffed HO. Literally everything is counter-Jugg now.

[jedcjedcjedc]

 

I love this quote:

 

even though it's mostly wrong? only lightning has 35m attacks, neither madness nor lightnings "burst" is on par with almost any other burst spec, just about every class has a speed boost, and the "bubble you can walk in" still doesn't allow you to do anything.

[DariusCalera]

even though it's mostly wrong? only lightning has 35m attacks, neither madness nor lightnings "burst" is on par with almost any other burst spec, just about every class has a speed boost, and the "bubble you can walk in" still doesn't allow you to do anything.

 

Walking while bubbled is allowing you to do something. Mainly allowing themselves to gain, or regain, a better position.

 

Imagine, a sorc/sage gets knocked out of a healing puddle with low health, pops the bubble then walks back into it without worrying about being stunned, netted, rooted, or knocked back again.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Walking while bubbled is allowing you to do something. Mainly allowing themselves to gain, or regain, a better position.

 

Imagine, a sorc/sage gets knocked out of a healing puddle with low health, pops the bubble then walks back into it without worrying about being stunned, netted, rooted, or knocked back again.

 

If the healing puddle saves him, you weren't doing enough damage. Also, Name one other DCD where you stand still and not do anything to use it, especially on a 3m CD? I get your point, we just don't see eye to eye about it being a problem.

[foxmob]

If the healing puddle saves him, you weren't doing enough damage. Also, Name one other DCD where you stand still and not do anything to use it, especially on a 3m CD? I get your point, we just don't see eye to eye about it being a problem.

how many sorcs/sages have you seen NOT h2f coming out of barrier?

 

cuz for me, it's virtually zero. even when I'm sitting there and stun them as barrier wears off, they still h2f (usually break the stun, sometimes not). with 2-3 other dps on him when I stun him, he'd probably die, but that's impractical. it just doesn't happen outside of ranked/teams, and even if it did, you'd be going up against another team that would take counter measures.

 

the practical reality is that barrier guarantees a h2f. not saying the sorc can't be burst down quickly afterward, but 99% of the time, you're not going to stop him from h2f.

[jedcjedcjedc]

how many sorcs/sages have you seen NOT h2f coming out of barrier?

 

cuz for me, it's virtually zero. even when I'm sitting there and stun them as barrier wears off, they still h2f (usually break the stun, sometimes not). with 2-3 other dps on him when I stun him, he'd probably die, but that's impractical. it just doesn't happen outside of ranked/teams, and even if it did, you'd be going up against another team that would take counter measures.

 

the practical reality is that barrier guarantees a h2f. not saying the sorc can't be burst down quickly afterward, but 99% of the time, you're not going to stop him from h2f.

 

that's a utility point, which would be a different case. It's also still on a 3 minute CD. It's a completely defensive CD with it's only real effect being to try and force attackers to move on to a more pressing target, and a lot of times it's not even effective at that. People may complain about enduring bastion but again its pretty simple to deal with. As you mentioned, a quick stun or mez and it's over. If people took 5 seconds to make a quick UI adjustment to enable focus target and used moderate situational awareness to notice the sorc coming out of the bubble, I'd bet we would hear a lot less discussion about how super OP this bubble is. I'll tell you right now I'd trade you the bubble for shroud in a heartbeat.

[-Healius-]

Mercs need a stealth move, a bit like marauder where it lasts a few seconds.

 

Sorc/Sages getting phase walk.... why doesnt bioware just take a dump and throw crap at me because thats how I feel about that situation.

[TUXs]

Mercs need a stealth move, a bit like marauder where it lasts a few seconds.

 

Sorc/Sages getting phase walk.... why doesnt bioware just take a dump and throw crap at me because thats how I feel about that situation.

Nah...I hate stealth.

 

What we needed was the VG/PT ability to not be targetable for 6-seconds...not "blowback". We need a DCD we can use while stunned. We need a heal that's worth a ****. In arenas, we're worthless right now. Sure, people can carry us, but merc/mando is freaking terrible against any semi-competent team.

[Transcendent]

Name one other DCD where you stand still and not do anything to use it.

 

I honestly don't recall any Merc / Mando player asking for a super god mode bubble (not without a bit of tongue in cheek anyway).

 

However we have been asking, for a long time for something akin to what we've been given. I just don't see the sense in making it 20m range on a 20s CD, without providing the same benefits as something like the Operative roll. If the utility point tied to it was baseline, sure 20m and 20s I could possibly live with.

 

However considering almost every other class is simply going to close the gap with a new gap closer? What was the point in giving it to us now? As well as nerfing Merc / Mando players by proxy with the HO/HtL 50% CD increase?

 

If anything, BioWare should have altered the utility point for Powertechs / Vanguards for the speed boost to come at the cost of an increased cooldown on the ability. Job done, wouldn't affect Merc / Mando players and Powertech / Vanguards would have the choice to decide if they wanted that extra speed, but at a cost.

 

Then, BioWare could have differentiated the advanced classes a little bit better, and altered our utility point for HO / HtL increase in time to include 3 or 4s of stun immunity at the start of its use, so we didn't simply pop HO/ HtL and get stunned.

 

However, it's plain and simple to see that the combat team don't have the ideas or the insight on how different the two advanced classes are, and how to differentiate them a little bit more so they are unique in DCDs for one single ability. They could have toned down the energiser bunnies while improving the advanced class that struggles a little bit more on one of its various weak DCDs.

 

It's either that, or there is a strong bias somewhere within the combat team against the Bounty Hunter / Trooper classes, because it's really starting to show.

[Mubrak]

What they didn't mention is, the jumping back ability will ALSO include a constant hovering in the air for 10 secs, high above the combat where the merc cannot be targeted or attacked by anyone.

Actually that would be a nice variant of the Sorc's god-bubble.

[DariusCalera]

I honestly don't recall any Merc / Mando player asking for a super god mode bubble (not without a bit of tongue in cheek anyway).

 

However we have been asking, for a long time for something akin to what we've been given. I just don't see the sense in making it 20m range on a 20s CD, without providing the same benefits as something like the Operative roll. If the utility point tied to it was baseline, sure 20m and 20s I could possibly live with.

 

However considering almost every other class is simply going to close the gap with a new gap closer? What was the point in giving it to us now? As well as nerfing Merc / Mando players by proxy with the HO/HtL 50% CD increase?

 

If anything, BioWare should have altered the utility point for Powertechs / Vanguards for the speed boost to come at the cost of an increased cooldown on the ability. Job done, wouldn't affect Merc / Mando players and Powertech / Vanguards would have the choice to decide if they wanted that extra speed, but at a cost.

 

Then, BioWare could have differentiated the advanced classes a little bit better, and altered our utility point for HO / HtL increase in time to include 3 or 4s of stun immunity at the start of its use, so we didn't simply pop HO/ HtL and get stunned.

 

However, it's plain and simple to see that the combat team don't have the ideas or the insight on how different the two advanced classes are, and how to differentiate them a little bit more so they are unique in DCDs for one single ability. They could have toned down the energiser bunnies while improving the advanced class that struggles a little bit more on one of its various weak DCDs.

 

It's either that, or there is a strong bias somewhere within the combat team against the Bounty Hunter / Trooper classes, because it's really starting to show.

 

I still don't think that they actually play their game in PvP. That or the devs can't, honestly, differentiate between a PT and a Mercenary. This has come up in the past when there were huge issues with the pyro trees that were shared. Merc/Mando pyro was receiving unwarranted second hand nerfs because PT/VG pyro was over performing. The devs could not, or would not, see the differences around that one was using mostly instant attacks and the other was cast heavy.

[foxmob]

I still don't think that they actually play their game in PvP. That or the devs can't, honestly, differentiate between a PT and a Mercenary. This has come up in the past when there were huge issues with the pyro trees that were shared. Merc/Mando pyro was receiving unwarranted second hand nerfs because PT/VG pyro was over performing. The devs could not, or would not, see the differences around that one was using mostly instant attacks and the other was cast heavy.

 

I don't disagree, but you're looking at the glass half empty. you could also argue that the weakness of pyro mercs (and that was the GOOD pvp spec) is what kept the nerfs to pyro PT small and reasonable (as opposed to what they did to ops and maras).

[DariusCalera]

I don't disagree, but you're looking at the glass half empty. you could also argue that the weakness of pyro mercs (and that was the GOOD pvp spec) is what kept the nerfs to pyro PT small and reasonable (as opposed to what they did to ops and maras).

 

If I remember the change right they, among other things, nerfed the range of Assault Plastique/Thermal Det to 10 meters for both merc/mandos and PTs/VGs and it stayed that way until they realized that mercs/mandos were a ranged class at which point they tacked on an extra 20 meters into one of the abilities. I remember there was some other change that had to deal with cast times and kiting that came about as well but I really don't feel like digging through the old patch notes.

 

As for the "glass half full part" that may be somewhat true but it still shows that they can't differentiate between the classes. It makes me wonder if they use the terms "Trooper" and "Bounty Hunter" interchangeably when talking about the classes instead of refining their talking points to merc/mando and PT/VG.

[FourPawnBenoni]

The 20m backwards jump would be useful in current meta. However, even if they did add it during the 3.X seasons I don't think it would have made Mercs viable in ranked (maybe a slight bump in ratings) so how will it help them out in 4.0 with increased mobility for everyone?

[Master-Nala]

The 20m backwards jump would be useful in current meta. However, even if they did add it during the 3.X seasons I don't think it would have made Mercs viable in ranked (maybe a slight bump in ratings) so how will it help them out in 4.0 with increased mobility for everyone?

 

Rocket out would be much better if they added the utility that prevents leaps/pulls and adds interrupt immunity as a baseline part of the ability.

 

Of if it could be used while immobilized.

[foxmob]

Rocket out would be much better if they added the utility that prevents leaps/pulls and adds interrupt immunity as a baseline part of the ability.

 

Of if it could be used while immobilized.

 

yes. it looks like a very expensive (heroic utility), less advantageous (no interrupt/cc immunity) MM entrench + roll.

[Transcendent]

Rocket out would be much better if they added the utility that prevents leaps/pulls and adds interrupt immunity as a baseline part of the ability.

 

Of if it could be used while immobilized.

 

Well, with the increase in CD to HO / HtL there isn't any need to take Thrill of the Hunt / Forced March anymore as you'll spend more time rooted / slowed anyway. So you may as well spend the heroic utility point there now as a Merc / Mando player, as well as the 30% DR reduction while stunned.