4.0 The dumbification of SWTOR.

[Swaggz]

I think most of the dread right now is just people jumping at shadows, they did the same thing with the game first released, everyone rushed to 50 then complained not enough to do.

 

That's the case in all MMOs. I'm more concerned with no new endgame of any sort either PvE wise or PvP wise. No real point in repeating the same content that I did at level to begin with.

[Juromaro]

Taking things away that give classes identity is not a good thing. In mmo's, I enjoy seeing intellect on my gear as a spellcaster in other mmos. And seeing cunning on a piece of gear that drops.

 

Yes, there was nothing difficult about stats. So why remove them? Yes, they're removing them and replacing them all with a single stat. That's taking away diversity, and it's taking flavor away. And with adaptive armor, everyone can just use anything. They may as well just put a single stat on gear. Damage or Healing. No secondaries, not primaries, just Damage or healing.

 

Mastery is going to work exactly the same as the Mainstat, only instead of being called Intellect it's master, instead of Strength it's mastery, instead of Cunning it's mastery, instead of Aim it's mastery. All gear is being made Adaptive, now everyone can use everything.

 

The raider in me is rejoicing because I don't have to worry about not having a chance at a drop in an Ops now. I can't tell you how many times in a raid in WoW, ToR, Aion, FFXI, Perfect World and all the other MMO's I played that I spent hours doing something and walked away with nothing but a repair bill.

 

Taking class diversity away? Pretty sure my Sorc can't use a saberstaff, and my agent can't use a blaster pistol, and I'm pretty sure my Bounty Hunter can't use Orbital Strike, and I can promise my Warrior can't use Death from Above.

[Juromaro]

That's the case in all MMOs. I'm more concerned with no new endgame of any sort either PvE wise or PvP wise. No real point in repeating the same content that I did at level to begin with.

 

 

Did Bioware ninja announce they don't plan to add anything ever again? All I heard was they didn't have anything planned with release and possibly the first half of 2016, granted that still is a long time, but no endgame is new ever, it's always "Get out of the fire, LoS, Moar Dots, Heal Heal Heal, Burst".....it's been awhile since I've raided in ToR but the mechanics are pretty much the same in every fight, dps as fast as you can, avoid ground stuff.

[Arsonn]

It was like that in the old days, but as with all things times change, Age of Empire matches evolved into starcraft matchs which evolved into other mobas, FPS went from being lan party to what it is now, MMO's may have started out group focused but they moved away from that model thanks to the accessible options WoW introduced, which introduced an entirely new type of player to the MMO scene, that turned out to be a much larger much more reliable client....the casual.

 

While I loved FFXI and even met my wife playing that game back in 04, I was one of the ones who despised WoW before I even tried it because it was causing my game to lose people that I played with daily. I eventually got tired of the raid bucket days and settled quite nicely into the role of a casual gamer. Now I no longer have to have my phone charged waiting for a call at 4am cause a boss spawned, I no longer have to have TS3 or Vent on my computer so I can be told how to do a boss that we've done 50 times before. Now I can pop into pvp and get my facesmash on before hoping back out and continuing to enjoy the game the way I want to and not the way someone else tells me I have to.

 

I seem to recall another MMO that recently came out that was designed for hardcores.....I heard that game has gone f2p in record time.

Swtor went free to play pretty quickly too. Is a game designed for hardcores? Absolutely not. Exactly the opposite actually. Whether a game is "casual" or "Hardcore" doesn't have much affect on how well it will do. Wildstar didn't do well because it was just a bad game. It was cheesy, cartoony, and just bland and not good. That's why it went F2p. People need to stop with their passive/aggressive agenda against people who play games more seriously. Or as a *gasp* hobby. Because it's transparent.

[Juromaro]

Swtor went free to play pretty quickly too. Is a game designed for hardcores? Absolutely not. Exactly the opposite actually. Whether a game is "casual" or "Hardcore" doesn't have much affect on how well it will do. Wildstar didn't do well because it was just a bad game. It was cheesy, cartoony, and just bland and not good. That's why it went F2p. People need to stop with their passive/aggressive agenda against people who play games more seriously. Or as a *gasp* hobby. Because it's transparent.

 

 

 

So I probably shouldn't say that I spend about 12-14 hours a day playing SWTOR/WoW?

[Arsonn]

Mastery is going to work exactly the same as the Mainstat, only instead of being called Intellect it's master, instead of Strength it's mastery, instead of Cunning it's mastery, instead of Aim it's mastery. All gear is being made Adaptive, now everyone can use everything.

 

The raider in me is rejoicing because I don't have to worry about not having a chance at a drop in an Ops now. I can't tell you how many times in a raid in WoW, ToR, Aion, FFXI, Perfect World and all the other MMO's I played that I spent hours doing something and walked away with nothing but a repair bill.

 

Taking class diversity away? Pretty sure my Sorc can't use a saberstaff, and my agent can't use a blaster pistol, and I'm pretty sure my Bounty Hunter can't use Orbital Strike, and I can promise my Warrior can't use Death from Above.

Yeah. And like I said, it's taking diversity out of classes. There should be clothies. There should be classes that wear heavy armor and nothing else. It's stupid that you can have a trooper running around in robes.

 

And walking away with nothing but a repair bill is fine. And you're going to be doing that now in Ops. Do you think now that you can roll on something that you're going to win it? Now you have competition with everyone else in the OP.

[Arsonn]

So I probably shouldn't say that I spend about 12-14 hours a day playing SWTOR/WoW?

I would probably say you're just using that as a counter. You really play video games 12-14 hours a day every day?

[Juromaro]

Yeah. And like I said, it's taking diversity out of classes. There should be clothies. There should be classes that wear heavy armor and nothing else. It's stupid that you can have a trooper running around in robes.

 

And walking away with nothing but a repair bill is fine. And you're going to be doing that now in Ops. Do you think now that you can roll on something that you're going to win it? Now you have competition with everyone else in the OP.

 

Sure, but I've done ops where literally nothing dropped for dps Sorc, now while I may not win I can still roll.

 

There will still be clothies, still be heavy armors and sadly still be troopers running around in robes. Adaptive gear doesn't change the armor class, it just makes it usable by everyone, my SI is still only going to get 250 armor from that Adaptive while my Jugg will get 550.

 

I mean I play on a RP server, I know first hand how frustrating it is to see things that don't fit, I despise all the Imahealer, Yougottanked people running around in their bright pink and yellow outfits and pink-yellow rave sticks, but no matter how much it bugs the crap out of me, I let them play their way, even though try as they might they come to the forums to try and stop me from enjoying the game my way.

[Juromaro]

I would probably say you're just using that as a counter. You really play video games 12-14 hours a day every day?

 

Yes, I'm fortunate enough to not have to work.

[JamieKirby]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

Well, here is my opinion on those 6 things you stated, based purely on what i have seen on the forums and ingame.

 

1: Less Stats to get to cap, which is a good thing, if you ask me, but i am sure the elitsts will make someone that requires it still.

 

2: Good, i tended to only use a single companion...Treek, because the rest were just not worth using, now that they improve as they level up and they can be any role, makes it possible to use any companion and not wish you took the healer or the tank or the dps instead.

 

3: I have seen many people ************ and crying about doing the quests again and again, why not bloody just buy the 60......it will shut them up, until they find something else to ***** about.

 

4: I don't think it has been squished any further, its just been changed abit to account for the extra 5 levels.

 

5: The level-sync, i think you mean is a good idea, it allows high/max level players to help their lower level friends without gimping their growth, they will even gain xp themselves if they are not at level cap.

 

6: Cause its an mmo, so gear tends to matter and bolstering only helps so much, you are basically finding something to complain about, just cause its something new and you are afraid.

[stockmks]

Yeah. And like I said, it's taking diversity out of classes. There should be clothies. There should be classes that wear heavy armor and nothing else. It's stupid that you can have a trooper running around in robes.

 

I dont think the idea you're asseting is bad.. but you can do that today right now already... dress your trooper in robes and make your sith lord look like a fighter pilot. do you find it a problem in game today?

[Mikahrtwo]

Maybe I'm in the minority on this one, but shouldn't an MMO be group content based? I mean what's the real point on playing online NEXT to instead of WITH other people online. If one is more worried about single player content, then whether it's an MMO or not shouldn't matter. What's the exact point of paying a sub for a single player game with very little replayability?

 

Now, between the rehashed endgame content and crafting getting changed, why bother with evening having any sort of endgame if the set bonus gear will be craftable now? Why not just give it away from a vendor? It's not exactly helping in retaining even the casual raider in 4.0.

 

No, it should contain grouping opportunities but it should be solo based.

 

Other people running around make it more immersive. NPCs are still far far away from being believable (A)I (well you could make a case for people you meet too ;P)

 

Paying a sub for CONTENT makes sense (same as buying DLCs, etc.) Paying sub just because "game is online" doesnt fly in this day and age. Plenty of free online games that individually have more players than all MMOs combined.

 

And raiders are so small minority that if ALL left it wouldnt really be noticable.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Mikahrtwo]

Swtor went free to play pretty quickly too. Is a game designed for hardcores? Absolutely not. Exactly the opposite actually. Whether a game is "casual" or "Hardcore" doesn't have much affect on how well it will do. Wildstar didn't do well because it was just a bad game. It was cheesy, cartoony, and just bland and not good. That's why it went F2p. People need to stop with their passive/aggressive agenda against people who play games more seriously. Or as a *gasp* hobby. Because it's transparent.

 

Endgame was designed for hardcores. Do you evem remember "T2 FPs", month or two after launch? And yup, all story continued in FPs and OPs (KP which was fully added 1 month after launch). And story was since then shoved in OPs.

 

Wanna see Dreadmasters story (that was pretty much story from launch to SoR)? NP, only OPs.

 

Makeb. lol. Now you get buff that (from what i can tell) is 178 gear. For WHO was that tuned?

 

PvP needed so much gear grind that it was ridiculous, and not having PvP gear - well i guess get used to be 1-2 rofl-shotted

 

The "other" game has nicely shown how NOT to do endgame and they were in full time adding more solo/casual group activities, and have "dumbed down" game SIGNIFICANLTY since launch 1 year ago.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[spoe]

Some of you are really blowing this out of proportion.

 

There's nothing wrong with solo / casual play or the other changes they are doing with 4.0. Games evolve and so must the player base (Naturally, you don't have to like all the changes. I, for example, am not too happy about the crafting and companion affection achievement changes---but I'll learn to live with it because I enjoy the game).

 

Do you really enjoy waiting ten hours on a group queue? Is it really that enjoyable to go to Hutta and slay level 10 players? I'm speaking facetiously of course. I like solo and group play; they both have their places in an MMO---with this one as well as every other MMO that has ever had any real success.

 

Stop fussing about it. Embrace the changes. Look forward to something new. Besides, the game isn't even here yet. You might like it.

[HarleysRule]

Some of you are really blowing this out of proportion.

 

There's nothing wrong with solo / casual play or the other changes they are doing with 4.0. Games evolve and so must the player base (Naturally, you don't have to like all the changes. I, for example, am not too happy about the crafting and companion affection achievement changes---but I'll learn to live with it because I enjoy the game).

 

Do you really enjoy waiting ten hours on a group queue? Is it really that enjoyable to go to Hutta and slay level 10 players? I'm speaking facetiously of course. I like solo and group play; they both have their places in an MMO---with this one as well as every other MMO that has ever had any real success.

 

Stop fussing about it. Embrace the changes. Look forward to something new. Besides, the game isn't even here yet. You might like it.

 

The game is already extremely solo friendly, which I like. A game can be casual without being so simple a 6 year old can understand it. I don't think 4 different main stats for 4 main classes is all that complicated, especially now that you don't have to worry about gearing companions. I don't think having 3 classes of armor instead of everything being adaptive is complicated. I didn't think the skill trees that actually gave us some meaningful choices in speccing instead of the linear skill progression we have now was complicated. Anyone that thinks the game is too complicated should probably stick with Chutes and Ladders.

[Swaggz]

Did Bioware ninja announce they don't plan to add anything ever again? All I heard was they didn't have anything planned with release and possibly the first half of 2016, granted that still is a long time, but no endgame is new ever, it's always "Get out of the fire, LoS, Moar Dots, Heal Heal Heal, Burst".....it's been awhile since I've raided in ToR but the mechanics are pretty much the same in every fight, dps as fast as you can, avoid ground stuff.

 

Actually, they did announce that they aren't planning on having any new Ops for KotFE. Your definition of endgame is the definition of everything content wise. Using your definition of this, then how is this story different from the others? You start, you finish, you save the day. Then again, if the mechanics are the "same" for every fight, then there wouldn't be any issue with groups clearing current content. I mean, if you kill one boss, you can kill them all right?

[Raansu]

You are the minority. MMOS are just massive rpgs with lots of players. That is it. The point is that I can use others for making money on the global market, or just have THAT OPTION to group if I feel like it. Paying a sub for a single player game that keeps getting more and more content added? Lots of reasons why. This mmo is changing for the better for many players. That is why we are coming back to it. Since pre 4.0 was kinda a failure to us.

 

Yep its improving so much for the better that people keep leaving in droves and only 1 out of the 8 servers even has a respectable population. You all think the casuals play the longest but that's not even close to true. You all play your solo content then disappear. Without consistent end game group content there's no reason to keep playing once you finished the solo stuff that can be done in a span of a few hours.

[Gameverseman]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8491153&postcount=222 That, pretty much, sums it up

[LegionAlpha]

Actually, they did announce that they aren't planning on having any new Ops for KotFE. Your definition of endgame is the definition of everything content wise. Using your definition of this, then how is this story different from the others? You start, you finish, you save the day. Then again, if the mechanics are the "same" for every fight, then there wouldn't be any issue with groups clearing current content. I mean, if you kill one boss, you can kill them all right?

 

Love the Sig.

[LegionAlpha]

Yep its improving so much for the better that people keep leaving in droves and only 1 out of the 8 servers even has a respectable population. You all think the casuals play the longest but that's not even close to true. You all play your solo content then disappear. Without consistent end game group content there's no reason to keep playing once you finished the solo stuff that can be done in a span of a few hours.

 

This. Solo players and casuals do not fuel games like these. Too bad devs are too dense to understand that

[_NovaBlast_]

Yep its improving so much for the better that people keep leaving in droves and only 1 out of the 8 servers even has a respectable population. You all think the casuals play the longest but that's not even close to true. You all play your solo content then disappear. Without consistent end game group content there's no reason to keep playing once you finished the solo stuff that can be done in a span of a few hours.

 

 

Like the below comment you are completely wrong really it amazing how single mined you arre .

 

I have never raided or pvp yet I still sub and don't seem to run out of things to do without "group content" really this is just another facepalm comment form you. That's like saying once you watch a movie there is no point watching it again. I have lost track how many times i have watched all the star wars movies. I also completed all the planets on multiple playthroughs as well i have also lost track how many times i completed the weeklies and dailies,

 

 

 

Then its time to play something else that's not related to the MMO genre. Plenty of single player games out there. I hear mobile games are perfect for you.

 

Raansu really most of your comments really make me facepalm but you have outdone yourself this time.

 

By definition Some MMO like swtor are single player games by default. Unless you get a game hat is more group based like a moba.

 

A massively multiplayer online game (MMO or MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet

 

mmo is simply an environment in which multiple people are playing in the same environment in real time ...it has nothing to do with forced grouping or pvp in a general sense..

 

op's and pvp add on's for the niche crowd especially in swtor that is a Story driven RPG

 

Why do you think all Fp now made soloable.... really saying stuff like that just makes you look foolish and rude.

 

There was a thread stating how rude some people can be and you just proved it right with one comment.

[Raansu]

Like the below comment you are completely wrong really it amazing how single mined you arre .

 

I have never raided or pvp yet I still sub and don't seem to run out of things to do without "group content" really this is just another facepalm comment form you. That's like saying once you watch a movie there is no point watching it again. I have lost track how many times i have watched all the star wars movies. I also completed all the planets on multiple playthroughs as well i have also lost track how many times i completed the weeklies and dailies,

 

You're in the minority who hasn't paid much attention to the server population drop off. 4 out of the 8 servers are light 24/7 and only 1 out of the 8 servers has a consistent population. The other 3 servers are floating just barely above the water and many are leaving the servers to go to harbinger or just straight up quitting because 4.0 is offering zero end game content. The devs are killing this game but not offering consistent end game content.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Raansu

[psikofunkster]

You're in the minority who hasn't paid much attention to the server population drop off. 4 out of the 8 servers are light 24/7 and only 1 out of the 8 servers has a consistent population. The other 3 servers are floating just barely above the water and many are leaving the servers to go to harbinger or just straight up quitting because 4.0 is offering zero end game content. The devs are killing this game but not offering consistent end game content.

 

They have killed the population each year more and this won't be the exception. Want to read about the harbinger "issues"when 4.0 launches lol.

 

It's almost midday here on the JC, on fleet only 77 persons, 1 instance obviously + TOS day pretty much a DEAD day. all this not worth a sub but im here for the new chapters after that another break.

 

But they still refuse to do another merge....they are too confident about their new expansion....sigh...

Edited October 8, 2015 by psikofunkster

[robertthebard]

Correct, it doesn't remove the difficulty of the game, they're further removing the thought process.

 

Refer to the definition of dumb.

 

Edit: Here's a quick passage from multiple sites.

 

Dumb down, Informal. to make or become less intellectual, simpler, or less sophisticated:

 

How hard did you have to think about any of this? Within an hour on my first day, I understood what I needed to be doing, and there's no thought involved in it now. OMG, you realize what this means? It means that the game was dumbed down from the start, and if you were struggling with gearing toons before these changes, you're still not going to be able to do it...

[_NovaBlast_]

You're in the minority who hasn't paid much attention to the server population drop off. 4 out of the 8 servers are light 24/7 and only 1 out of the 8 servers has a consistent population. The other 3 servers are floating just barely above the water and many are leaving the servers to go to harbinger or just straight up quitting because 4.0 is offering zero end game content. The devs are killing this game but not offering consistent end game content.

 

**facepalm** Im in the minority it staggers me how you can even post such things... you don't think they have better stats than you "observations" **facepalm**....again.

 

Again end game content does not necessary have to include "group content" to be considered "end game"

 

Your are right i don't care about server population it makes no differance to me if there are 1 person or 100,000,000

becase as i said before i don't raid or pvp.. But that does not mean im in the minority ... recent improvements have all favored solo play ...so draw your own conclusions form that.

Edited October 8, 2015 by _NovaBlast_