4.0 The dumbification of SWTOR.

[eGraced]

Don't forget the bright side: no more sorcs in strength and defense leveling greens popping up in GF!

[Birtram]

Simplification of some things for convenience isn't the same as dumbing down the game or catering to the casual crowd. And let's be honest, people like the OP always end up enjoying this kind of change because they can act all experienced and smart by telling new players about how hard things were back in their day. I've been playing this game since beta and having all main stats rolled into one or surge and crit combined doesn't bother me at all.

 

Difficulty and complexity =/= Unnecessary complications or grinding.

 

Complaining about these things reminds me of people whining about "skill cap" changes in Dota 2. But it's particularly funny to see it in this game since it's a much an easier one.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Birtram

[thomaswaits]

I'd hardly use the word "dumbification" when they are giving every profession highly valuable recipes and making every profession viable. To each his own, I gess.

 

Trust me, crafting is being dumbified. The vast majority of items (anywhere from 50 to 75%) that can be crafted now will become obsolete in 4.0. Dumb-dee-dumb-dumb. But we need to watch out for the 1 player in 500 that doesn't understand the difference between aim and cunning, right?

[Upirlikhyi]

Trust me, crafting is being dumbified. The vast majority of items (anywhere from 50 to 75%) that can be crafted now will become obsolete in 4.0. Dumb-dee-dumb-dumb. But we need to watch out for the 1 player in 500 that doesn't understand the difference between aim and cunning, right?

 

so do you use every single item you can craft? I know I haven't used a i would say 75% of the items my max level crafters combined can make (4). so how is changing that dumbing it down?

 

and yes we need to help the 1 player who don't understand the difference between aim and cunning when they first start. To many times I have seen your attitude towards new players asking questions and what not drive new players away. But yea let's run to the forums and scream and stamp our feet and say change is dumbing the game down..

[yaxmutal]

I do partially agree I do not like the upscaling, downscaling and bolstering and I wish it was optional. I like that some things are hard and that if things are too hard you can come back in a couple of levels and do them such as some Heroic missions.

[Upirlikhyi]

I do partially agree I do not like the upscaling, downscaling and bolstering and I wish it was optional. I like that some things are hard and that if things are too hard you can come back in a couple of levels and do them such as some Heroic missions.

 

there has not been a confirmation on the downscaling so i really wish people would relax about how it will affect heroic missions

[sentientomega]

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

#s 1 & 2. These, I would've taken care of from 1.0 if it were down to me, but better late than never, especially tying companion stats to our own, it means you can dress them in a greater variety of outfit parts.

#3. I, for one, am very glad this option is available, as the 1-60 grind (especially the first 50 levels) does take its toll.

#4. Evidence?

#s 5 & 6. Be more specific, please.

Edited September 25, 2015 by sentientomega

[Cheops]

Think some league of legend nerd

 

Well there is also a Teemo the Hutt that is from a Star Wars RPG put out by Fantasy Flight Games..

 

And if you were referring to me being a nerd.. ehh.. been hearing that my whole life... i prefer to think of it as being ahead of the curve... i was into computer,gaming,mmos, ect. long before the were "mainstream"

Edited September 25, 2015 by Cheops

[nicholaspapas]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

What matters to me, end game and i don't see how any of this makes a difference to that one way or the other

[Khiriath]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

 

By this I take it you mean three things. 1) Consolidation of mainstat. 2) Combination of Surge and Crit. 3) Only two tiers of Endgame gear(SM and HM).

 

For me this isn't dumbing down its blessed relief from unecessary grinding. Mainstat is neither here nor their, you still going to need to be able to read enough to figure out which set bonus you need... But aside from that, I'm hoping that it makes the min/maxing a bit easier and shorter.

 

I mean right now, let's say you have a set 8m progression team. You have to run the current sm ops at least 8 times each just to get everyone their set bonus gear. Then because the stat spread is still crap, you need to grind further to optimize said gear. <Zorz> cleared HM ToS on PTS, but when it went live they didn't get it done until Feb... simply because of the time it took to grind the gear.

 

Reducing that grind is not dumbing down...

 

Having one mainstat(mastery) just makes crafting more affordable and easy. Less time grinding for mats and grinding my teeth hoping to get the right schemes from re-egineering... Also, hopefully less to grind on the way to endgame crafting.

 

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

Meh... again less grinding and less time equipping comps, I don't see how that's a bad thing or a dumbing down of the game.

 

#3 Letting people buy 60's

Not a dumbing down, I would call it giving some players, especially new players a steeper learning curve.

 

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

Proof and specifics please.

 

#5 downscaling-upscaling

Aside from FPs and OPs via GF, this is an unconfirmed rumor. So I see no point in addressing it.

 

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

Getting good stats in bolster requires some of the most intriguing theory crafting yet. What it bolsters and how it bolsters... those are arguments for the ages. Honestly I'm inclined to say that Bolster is as likely to hurt you as it is to help.

[Khiriath]

so do you use every single item you can craft? I know I haven't used a i would say 75% of the items my max level crafters combined can make (4). so how is changing that dumbing it down?

 

and yes we need to help the 1 player who don't understand the difference between aim and cunning when they first start. To many times I have seen your attitude towards new players asking questions and what not drive new players away. But yea let's run to the forums and scream and stamp our feet and say change is dumbing the game down..

 

WOW!!! You use 25% of the stuff your top level crafters can make? I bet I don't use 5% of the stuff they can make. 4 earpieces, 4 implants, 5 relics, and MK-10 kits and and 3 augments and that is about it. Considering the exceptionally long lists of stuff that each can make, I'm pretty sure that accounts for only about 5%.

[Upirlikhyi]

WOW!!! You use 25% of the stuff your top level crafters can make? I bet I don't use 5% of the stuff they can make. 4 earpieces, 4 implants, 5 relics, and MK-10 kits and and 3 augments and that is about it. Considering the exceptionally long lists of stuff that each can make, I'm pretty sure that accounts for only about 5%.

 

yea i would say close to that...but that is also taking in to count the items i make to use as i level a toon.

 

most of the stuff i never use though

[Transcendent]

There is a subtle difference between making subtle QoL changes, and removing the grind aspect of the RPG element of the game. Simplification on some of the things in the game? Absolutely.

 

The one I still take issue with is removing skill trees for disciplines, to "make balancing easier" because the combat team were struggling with the plethora of different builds people used. While it's probably helped them control power creep to an extent, it's a far cry from the game being anywhere near balanced. Especially with the terrible placement of Utilities for some ACs.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Transcendent

[Kary]

#s 1 & 2. These, I would've taken care of from 1.0 if it were down to me, but better late than never, especially tying companion stats to our own, it means you can dress them in a greater variety of outfit parts.

#3. I, for one, am very glad this option is available, as the 1-60 grind (especially the first 50 levels) does take its toll.

#4. Evidence?

#s 5 & 6. Be more specific, please.

 

 

Buying a LV60 is a stupid way for players and a bad move for BW/EA. You are suppose to be enjoying from LV1 to LV60, understanding the game lore/story/mechanic and enjoy the fruit of how SWTOR was build. Not buying a LV60 character straight into PVP or end-game raiding.

 

 

If buying a LV60 character was what you guys think "It's fine" then EA/BW might as well start to sell epic gears so you guys do not need to even grind for it. I feel this is like engaging a gold farmer to help you LVL or buying a account from them.

 

A good read: http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/19/the-soapbox-instant-high-level-characters-are-a-terrible-horri/

 

"This addresses a serious issue with the easiest and laziest possible solution."

"The studio is doing it for its pocketbooks, not for the community."

'With it, studios are essentially saying, "Our old content isn't worth playing."

"Instant high-level characters kill long-term interest."

 

Die-hard swtor fans does not know that they are killing this game by supporting this stupid "Buying a LV60 Character"

Edited September 25, 2015 by Kary

[Upirlikhyi]

I disagree Kary.

 

I have max level toons. I don't enjoy the bh or trooper all that much so why shouldn't i have the option to buy one to get the buff?

 

there is nothing wrong with buying a level 60.

 

and there is a huge difference between buying a toon to start a new exp and buying gear

[Kary]

Ultimately, this move is targeting for new bloods that want to try the game w/o hassling from LV1 to LV60 which is a wrong way for EA/BW to market their product. We know how EA works and to be honest, we cant do anything much. In their strategy:

 

Short Term = Huge Boost of Subs. (Quick way to earn profits)

Long Term = Decrease of Subs steadily but still able to maintain and get some profits.

 

 

I will be expecting some new class to be out for next expansion after the KoTFE since players now able to buy LV60 characters and will be bored with the current ones by then. And after less than 5yrs, this game will be officially announce for "shutting down"

 

 

From WoW:

 

The number of “World of Warcraft” subscriptions dropped from 10 million to 7.1 million in the first three months of 2015, a record decline for a game that's known for its loyal fan base. But, after ten years, gamers appear to simply have run out of things to do.

 

What makes the drop, announced Wednesday in game-maker Blizzard's first quarter filing, especially odd is that it comes just after an uptick in subscriptions.

 

The “Warlords of Draenor” expansion pack released in November attracted nearly three millions subscriptions by offering new perks like letting veterans and noobies jump straight to level 90. Once they did, though, and experienced the rest of the game there might simply be no reason for them to hang around, and pay the $11.50 to $15 subscription price.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Kary

[Exiled-Phoenix]

How many threads are you going to make to complain about the same thing?

 

Seriously, if you have so many problems with the coming update(which we barely have any info on) maybe you should go play another MMO instead and stop whining about everything here

[Transcendent]

Seriously, if you have so many problems with the coming update(which we barely have any info on) maybe you should go play another MMO instead and stop whining about everything here

 

So that's your answer is it? If players don't like the game, they should go play something else? Instead of voicing concerns to BioWare now on the direction things are going?

 

I suppose next all you want to see on these forums is posts declaring their love for swtor and how we'd all like to see more Cartel fluff pushed on us instead of real content?

[KyaniteD]

It's not really a dumbification. No, none of it was difficult in the first place. It's a simplification, a reduction of what little variation there was and the total removal of any thought on game mechanics outside pve or pvp instances. (Requiring minimum of thought/understanding =/= difficult).

 

Ultimately, this move is targeting for new bloods that want to try the game w/o hassling from LV1 to LV60 which is a wrong way for EA/BW to market their product. We know how EA works and to be honest, we cant do anything much. In their strategy:

 

Short Term = Huge Boost of Subs. (Quick way to earn profits)

Long Term = Decrease of Subs steadily but still able to maintain and get some profits.

 

That's what I'm going, with, too. Player fluctuation will increase, player retention will go down.

 

The flattened learning curve will make getting into the game easier, but it will also make getting out of it a lot easier. If you don't put much into it, you're not losing much leaving it.

[Crowzer]

Does anyone agree with this?....

Yes absolutly.

Welcome in 2015.

[Jedi_riches]

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

 

I actually like this change, I tend to have 1 companion and stick with him/her for the whole game (usually healer). I use all custom gear so trying to gear myself and my chosen companion was just about doable.

With companions able to perform all roles in the new expansion and given the fact that I don't have to worry about gear on anybody I can swap companions about a bit (just preferences per planet) and also use companions I like rather than the one I must because of their role.

 

Its a pure QoL change and one I would have liked to have seen earlier. I just wonder how the gear will scale will it be green "quality" upgraded every level or every 2 (like normal gear upgrades).

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jedi_riches

[sentientomega]

And given that their stats are tied to ours, I can't help but wonder if BW was also providing relief for stormy groups; for instance, two people leave and the two remaining players can whip out their comps, who are no longer under-geared if the players are properly geared.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

So that's your answer is it? If players don't like the game, they should go play something else? Instead of voicing concerns to BioWare now on the direction things are going?

 

I suppose next all you want to see on these forums is posts declaring their love for swtor and how we'd all like to see more Cartel fluff pushed on us instead of real content?

 

There is a difference between "voicing concerns" and making the same thread over and over again with little to no constructive criticism.

 

A quick boost to level 60 will be needed to keep new players up to speed with old players.

If you cant provide a better way to achieve this and your only argument is "all new ppl will be bads" then yes i'd prefer that you go play another game

[SweKaiser]

People dont like challenges and engaging gameplay so this expansion is right up their alley. People like sitting and watching cut scenes, not actually playing the game.

This will be such a let down of an expansion and people will realise that in about a month.

[mortenpro]

I'm really, really happy with all changes coming in 4.0 and I believe I am not alone. How can you be upset? Because you'll lose ways to cheat other players, which make you feel better than others? I can't find any other reason.

SWTOR community is very toxic, so I'm really happy that BioWare is finally doing something about this.