Kryptonomic Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 We're 3 weeks away from a potentially game altering change...people HAVE asked for confirmation from Bioware...this isn't "bickering", it's debate over a growing and real concern players have. Agreed for the most part. But it's not really effective debate because everyone is talking about something that has not been confirmed and even if confirmed, likely won't be changed based on the results of any debate. Effective debate would be if Bioware actually announced a decision to implement this aspect and was seeking feedback (even if only in a "check the temperature" kind of way) from the player base. That would allow Bioware to make decisions based on the debate or at least explain the rationale. What we have here is essentially equivalent to a one-sided conversation with players that have different viewpoints. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't have that conversation. However, it's undeniable that the BW community team has seemed to be very disinclined to participate in any way, even if only to confirm one way or the other. Maybe the Twitch stream today will clear up some of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahra Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I feel ultimately indifferent to this, shocking as that is even to me. I can see some potential pros and cons. I personally like being able to roflstomp around in much lower level stuff, but my jimmies aren't feeling rustled to imagine it all with level scaling either. I'll be fine either way. Well, that's great for you, but many people do not agree. Optional gives both camps what they want (except for the few radicals/extremists who want everyone to be forced to their point of view, but let's not ever, whether it's in-game or out there in the real world, cater to that kind of people please. I like my freedom) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Agreed for the most part. But it's not really effective debate because everyone is talking about something that has not been confirmed and even if confirmed, likely won't be changed based on the results of any debate. Effective debate would be if Bioware actually announced a decision to implement this aspect and was seeking feedback (even if only in a "check the temperature" kind of way) from the player base. That would allow Bioware to make decisions based on the debate or at least explain the rationale. What we have here is essentially equivalent to a one-sided conversation with players that have different viewpoints. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't have that conversation. However, it's undeniable that the BW community team has seemed to be very disinclined to participate in any way, even if only to confirm one way or the other. Maybe the Twitch stream today will clear up some of this. Bioware has made changes in the past based on forum feedback. The only harm is in not trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Well, that's great for you, but many people do not agree. Optional gives both camps what they want (except for the few radicals/extremists who want everyone to be forced to their point of view, but let's not ever, whether it's in-game or out there in the real world, cater to that kind of people please. I like my freedom) When I'm on a quest to be elected to public office, other peoples' agreement might matter to me. That aside, I'm not opposing the position of having it be optional. I'm just not likely going to be found joining the wild eyed doomsayers propgesizing the doom of everything of its not optional. Assuming anyone relevant ever reads these feedback threads, they now have mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptonomic Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Bioware has made changes in the past based on forum feedback. The only harm is in not trying. They have, that's true. That said, you have to look at the scope of the features they have changed based on feedback, including how entwined said features were with business priorities and/or game mechanics. The BW community team has been disinclined, however, to talk too much about the particular issue being discussed here at all. Hence my point that this isn't a debate. To have a debate over the feature would require BW participating at least to some degree. Players can debate about the feature in general, of course. But, as we see, that only matters if BW participates. Further, it's a bit far along at this point to be doing "user acceptance testing" -- meaning, implementing a major change and hoping people like it, with the the thought that you can rip it out if not, based on feedback. So if BW is listening to feedback, I would be very surprised at this point if they would pull out this feature (assuming it's been implemented, of course) at this late stage. That said, it all depends on how it's implemented and how tied into other game aspects it is. And, again -- as we all know -- it all really depends on whether this feature has even been implemented. It seems logical to think, however, that had the feature not been implemented, BW could have quashed a lot of concerns by now with a simple statement to that effect. Edited September 30, 2015 by JeffNyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahra Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I'm just not likely going to be found joining the wild eyed doomsayers propgesizing the doom of everything of its not optional. Oh, I'm not saying the game is doomed when they don't make scaling optional, BUT the game as far as pre 60 content is concerned will be ruined for me personally. And you can be damn sure I'm going to keep voicing my opinion on this matter until I'm convinced that Bioware is not making this huge mistake. I might be wasting my energy because 1) this change is not even happening or 2) they've already decided and I'm not going to change their mind, but still... I will damn sure try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Oh, I'm not saying the game is doomed when they don't make scaling optional, BUT the game as far as pre 60 content is concerned will be ruined for me personally. And you can be damn sure I'm going to keep voicing my opinion on this matter until I'm convinced that Bioware is not making this huge mistake. I might be wasting my energy because 1) this change is not even happening or 2) they've already decided and I'm not going to change their mind, but still... I will damn sure try. Ain't gonna find me suggesting you shouldn't, aye. I can't actually think of any particularly compelling reasons why it shouldn't be optional. It won't be my favorite thing ever if it winds up slapped in no matter what shy of us think about it, though it won't wreck much for me if it does. That's obviously just my own mileage there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuno Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 People are concerned about scaling, not because of Flashpoints, but because of "Heroic 4" areas. Alderaan bonus area Datacron? Forget about it. And about Hoth one, if you are Imp. Hey, even without Datacrons you will be blocked from half of present "solo" game content and blocked hard. It is not challenge of said group content making them hard to do at level, it is impossible challenge of forming said groups. Patch 4.0 won't miraculously fill your group, it will just force you to group. And that's why forced scaling in there is bad thing. There is huge problem finding people for any planetary group quests and you really want to make all heroics into "Aurora cannons"? Oh poop, i had forgotten about that.. Eek! time to get in game and start bashing out all those missing heroic areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Well, that's great for you, but many people do not agree. Optional gives both camps what they want (except for the few radicals/extremists who want everyone to be forced to their point of view, but let's not ever, whether it's in-game or out there in the real world, cater to that kind of people please. I like my freedom) Except that we already have people that don't realize you don't want or need their help when running missions in public zones. We already have people that will wait until you're clearing a node to jump it, whether it's a quest objective or crafting mats or a security chest. IF they do open world scaling, which I really don't see for at least one reason I'll list below, having it optional would lead to even more of this style of "griefing". The issue I see are class missions that require you to run through Heroic areas that you outlevel, and so aren't so heroic any more. Off the top of my head, SI has one on DK right at the start of Chapter 2, and BH does too. So making the OW scale means that you're going to likely need a group to do these class missions? That's not really a good idea. If people that buy into the game for KotfEE decide they want to try the class missions, is that going to be good for player retention? Hardly. So there's much ado about nothing, until we know what's really going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Further, it's a bit far along at this point to be doing "user acceptance testing" -- meaning, implementing a major change and hoping people like it, with the the thought that you can rip it out if not, based on feedback. So if BW is listening to feedback, I would be very surprised at this point if they would pull out this feature (assuming it's been implemented, of course) at this late stage. That said, it all depends on how it's implemented and how tied into other game aspects it is. And, again -- as we all know -- it all really depends on whether this feature has even been implemented. It seems logical to think, however, that had the feature not been implemented, BW could have quashed a lot of concerns by now with a simple statement to that effect. This is one of the concerns. And you have to wander as to why subscribers are getting "KotFE" for free (with the exception of trying to retain subscriptions in the lead up to KotFE by using fluff bait). Is it because they're going to make sweeping changes, and they're not sure if we'll like them? I'm going to hazard a small guess that is probably one of the factors involved. If so it's a shrewd business move that will possibly backfire in the long run, although they'll have ensured at least another 3-4 months of subscriber retention with purely the rewards. Considering some of the other BioWare studios have learned it's better to communicate, I'm perturbed by the Austin studio being so reticent to communicate properly with players. It's one of the reasons why if I don't like anything I see in KotFE they'll have no second chances from me personally. They need to learn to communicate, however distasteful that process will be for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRogue Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just confirmed by Eric it is not optional to toggle downscaling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmder-Shepard Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Forcing you to sync your character you spent so long on to get to a level is a bad idea and I don't support this at all. Optional fine but forcing you to is never a good idea and I'm against it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Forcing you to sync your character you spent so long on to get to a level is a bad idea and I don't support this at all. Optional fine but forcing you to is never a good idea and I'm against it Confirmed. It's not optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 you got your wish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Yes, confirmed not optional. I won't be healing noobs any longer when they are in trouble. I'll just stay in max level areas. No big deal but lack of choice is always a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickShan Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 It's nice if you still have levels to gain and are going to lower level planets to help someone or something else, otherwise it's just a big annoyance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastiaanZ Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Well, you got your wish. RIP SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Well, you got your wish. RIP SWTOR. I don't think it's going to die but there's going to be more that will leave from this than will join for this. Edited September 30, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Correction, at 4.0 is not optional. At 4.x, who knows...? And, looking at the list I saw of heroics, they all seem to be H2+; which isn't too bad, though I suspect they chose DK because H2s get harder as you level up as it stands now, except for Oricon, evidence of which I've not seen in the stream, but if it's anything like trying to solo the 55 H2+ at 60 on Oricon, no can do solo, at least for me. However, they may yet surprise us so that anybody can do them solo without worrying, or with a friend or friends, and have even less reason to worry. *awaits the almost-inevitable torrent of "L2P scrub" abuse* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preddk Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Hmm was just having fun getting lowlvl armor for outfits. guess this will kill it for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methylium Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 FORCED downlevelsynch will kill alot of fun for your players, just make it optional! you'll definitly scare away your subscribers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmder-Shepard Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Be fair to everyone make it a option not something forced on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 but if it's anything like trying to solo the 55 H2+ at 60 on Oricon, no can do solo, at least for me. For what it's worth, the H2+ on Oricon became much easier when I used a tank companion. The champions have a lot of stuns, knockbacks, and other types of crowd control attacks. The tank companion will absorb the brunt of these CC's, leaving you free to burn the champ down. You might give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Thanks, and I have. My madness sorc with Xalek tank has had a really nightmarish time of that, I think I was literally shaking at the seemingly ops-boss capabilities each dread commander/general had. The only times I did manage to down any of the others, Xalek kept needing revival. That is the only Oricon experiment for the H2+ I tried, the time I did it with my sorc and sage healers with melee dps comps, I just kept downing the marauder champ boss, but that wasn't easy either. By far, the easiest, but I'd like to be able to tackle any of them. I really hope it's more like the DK heroic Eric tried for Oricon come 4.0. I know alot of players are better than me, and some will spam L2P scrub abuse at me for having said all this, but that doesn't matter. Being able to solo the stuff, IF I WANT TO, or group, IF I WANT TO, would leave the options open, so fun can be had. IF all the H2+s are like Eric's mini-DK-adventure (note, he never actually went to a boss to attempt a takedown), but if every enemy (from strong to all grades of champ) in such a zone is soloable by even the most casual of casual players (or anyone who fails KDY), then I know I'll be fine. Edited September 30, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Correction, at 4.0 is not optional. At 4.x, who knows...? It'll be too late by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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