SithKoriandr Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This is because most players can't play a game without the thought of gaining levels and not just going through a story and killing things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluxtwo Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 A level increase in less than a year is bad design, especially with it resulting in running the same end game content as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Welcome to most mmo expansions since the dawn of time I actually been playing MMORPGs since their dawn of time (1991 on aol) and have no clue what you are trying to say here. Expansions in MMORPGs have always added content, group content. Thus far with 4.0 I see a ton of content being removed (crafting conquest, nightmare modes, mats, companion gear, and more) and only see 1 hour a month of new single player content + old ops and flashpoints being upgraded (but lets be honest about the ops and flashpoints,, that should have been done long ago so really doesnt count as expansion content). Care to try and make another self satisfied and obnoxious comment that you can be called on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The player base is going to change, because the type of new content they chose to make has changed. It's really not one of their goals to retain the exact same player base that exists now (or existed at any snapshot of time in the past). I think it will be very interesting to see if they have chosen wisely. is going to change. I know for myself I'm only leaving account sub'd until 4.0 launches. If the conquest crafting destruction is not reversed to acceptable level (many ideas in the conquest thread that would be acceptable) I will be cancelling. And I know I am not alone in that I can live with the 1 hour a month single player update I can live with the change in mats and recipes I can live with the old content (FPS and OPS) being bumped up to level 60 (they should have been all along so long over due) But the removal of stats on companions and their gear and the removal of conquest crafting are game breakers for me. I think EA will get a slight bump when 4.0 hits, not as large as it should be because that bump will be mostly off set by cancelled subs over the bad ideas they put forth but couple months after 4.0 the population will be down dramatically as people figure out 1 hour of solo player content each month is ate up in a few hours of play. Leaving rest of month with nothing interesting to do. 4.0 started strong and sounded good but once again EA shows they just do not understand these games, their audiences, what needs to be done to succeed. I'm not screaming doom and gloom Just this is going to have a negative over all impact on population in long run When at first it sounded so promising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Heat -wave is right there is nothing actually new outside of the story. Do we even get a new daily area? No new pvp aka like arena was or quesh ball. No new GSF starfox stuff like bombers being introduced. No new end game pve content just giving mobs more hp and more damage doesn't count, no new actual mechanics in raids . Only new content is going to be the story which you can do in greens and supply vendor crap plus from the looks of it companions are getting buffed because it was so hard to do before..... Tbh with the path they're taking with just increasing the level on a bunch of things I really hope they fix all the old bugs because swtor in general when it comes to bugs doesn't do that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallerine Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Star Wars: The Old Republic The only story based single player online multiplayer solo experience you can have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 In most of wow-clones in new addon you can get new skill (i.e. new utility point in SWTOR system) or two for next 5-10 levels without losing the the old ones (to regain them later in SWTOR... oh my), mostly complete storyline (not just a 50% of all chapters in SWTOR ) and also increased stats. A bit different for me. Except you are getting new skills. In KotFE. You are loosing one "passive" talent (not ability) for a while, but you will gain new active ability (and new passive talent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turshek Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Read some of the posts but not all, not sure where is the problem with levels and gear grind First, welcome to what happen with PvP gear at each level increase, getting first then second tier of gear in the same content you have done before. 2nd, as you like to do flashpoints/operations for themselves and not just to grind gear, you are happy to have more flashpoints/operations at level cap to have fun and some challenges. Sure at first it means choices between stuff you might have already done but it's still more choices than just Ravagers/ToS and they will add more later, meaning at each level increase or when you gear a new char, you'll get more and more content to choose between and get useful rewards. 3rd, no new flashpoint/operation sucks, another bad management error for SWTOR, like EA/Disney couldn't fund the making of some new flashpoints/operations, they understand they need to give this game some new life but at same time fail to give enough for existing parts of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 First, welcome to what happen with PvP gear at each level increase, getting first then second tier of gear in the same content you have done before. I feel you 100%... that being said, I have several toons in 174 gear and the new lower prices have made all the difference... I now see far more toons show up in PvP in actual PvP gear, so the change is noticed. If the cost of PvE gear was dropped with this launch, so for example instead of 140 ultimate comms for 224 gear it was lowered to 40 ultimate comms, I'd feel differently. Also, if running Rav or ToS in SM, if each boss dropped say 4 tokens, then it would be different. I suppose that could be one way to ease the pain. 2nd, as you like to do flashpoints/operations for themselves and not just to grind gear, I don't, I do them for gear... there are a number of them I no longer run due to not needing what they provide and having reached the achievement targets for them... They are exactly the same every time. At least in PvP you have a different match due to different players. FP go on "farm" really quickly. I still play my toons in PvP who have 174 gear... My toons in 192 set piece gear do not run Rav or ToS anymore in SM, there is no point and it is a waste of time... That is a key difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The MMOs that stay alive, also include new activities for players to do...they don't rely on 4 year old content to hold players interest. Really? I played Rappelz for 5 years, and they released new content for it once in that time frame. I haven't played it for just about that long now, but it's still kicking, although it is down to 3 servers now. I wonder, however, how many people are still playing the original Guild Wars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turshek Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I feel you 100%... that being said, I have several toons in 174 gear and the new lower prices have made all the difference... I now see far more toons show up in PvP in actual PvP gear, so the change is noticed. If the cost of PvE gear was dropped with this launch, so for example instead of 140 ultimate comms for 224 gear it was lowered to 40 ultimate comms, I'd feel differently. Also, if running Rav or ToS in SM, if each boss dropped say 4 tokens, then it would be different. I suppose that could be one way to ease the pain. I don't, I do them for gear... there are a number of them I no longer run due to not needing what they provide and having reached the achievement targets for them... They are exactly the same every time. At least in PvP you have a different match due to different players. FP go on "farm" really quickly. I still play my toons in PvP who have 174 gear... My toons in 192 set piece gear do not run Rav or ToS anymore in SM, there is no point and it is a waste of time... That is a key difference. Yes the 3.3 changes with PvP helped, not sure why they don't think the same about PvE or GSF. Thanks for being honest about your reasons to do operations, doesn't really happen often Well, I keep saying to myself I should try to focus on PvE end game for a while since launch, I always stop quickly, novelty of new content doesn't last long, scripted encounters and having to know tactics before trying just to get new gear and some fluffs doesn't keep interested enough so I can understand you. The real problem is the stupid error to have no new end game PvE content in KotFE, I have no idea how they can think that having more old flashpoints/operations to do at 65 would be enough for thoses who already done them. It's good for new players, for returning players that may have skipped a year or 2, for people that never got into end game PvE yet, but for veterans PvE'ers, I'm not sure it's that exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I think BW made a mistake to not cobble together a raid to placate the predictable backlash. Thou even such a token gesture would get ripped apart, perhaps even more so than being frank that priorities lie elsewhere. But as a non hardcore ops progressionist I understand and even approve. 4.0 is basically a re-boot of the game that focuses on proping up the foundations both in conceptual and apparently even techincal (!) departements. If 4.0 delivers a semblance of a coherent plan in regards to how they want to approach endgame going forward (post launch turmoil and staff changes clearly resulted in no game plan in that department) & noticable performance improvements, I value that more for the long run than I do 5-10 new bosses this year. This expansion is a lot more spring cleaning than usual MMO expansions are. Edited September 17, 2015 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdatt Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I didn't read all pages but the biggest kick in the nuts is to people still working on HM Rav/ToS progression. Like me. If I don't kill all bosses by 4.0 I will have to spend months getting back to the gear level to continue working on the final bosses. They should have raised everything to 60 instead of 65. Saved new gear tiers for when they introduce new Ops and raise them all to 65 then with the new gear. Edited September 17, 2015 by bdatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 So you're suggesting that my only two options are: 1. Be happy about it and suck it up 2. Go away and do something else ??? How about: 3. Voice my displeasure about the future direction of a game that I want to love, that I've spent 3+ years with, that I have friends who play with, and that I don't want to leave if I can have any influence on it? Most people don't take 3+ years to figure out the relationship isn't working out and they will never be able to mold the other person into what they want them to be. Seriously, all you have done is whine for 3+ years, you don't even have the inkling of a clue on how to give any kind of actionable constructive criticism. This thread is itself just beating a dead horse, what do you think they are going to do at this point, "Oh guys, Heat-wave is upset, we should totally cancel KOTFE and start over!" You are already on record for months now that you don't think this is the right approach, how many spam threads do you need to make about it? I'm all for giving actual feedback that can be used, but all you do is cry like that little bratty kid who's mom won't get them a cookie. So yeah, suck it up or quit. This isn't the WoW clone you're looking for, and thank the Maker for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I didn't read all pages but the biggest kick in the nuts is to people still working on HM Rav/ToS progression. Like me. If I don't kill all bosses by 4.0 I will have to spend months getting back to the gear level to continue working on the final bosses. This happens in all games that have expansions and raises the level cap, it is nothing new. Edited September 17, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 This happens in all games that have expansions and raises the level cap, it is nothing new. No, actually that isn't true, and it wasn't true for 2.0 or 3.0 either... The old operations weren't raised in the past, so when 2.0 dropped, you could still go play EC/EV/KP in HM or NiM and they were the same. When 3.0 dropped, TFB/S&V/DF/DP/TC all stayed at lvl 55, so nothing changed, you could still go do those. In 4.0, those options are going away, now you have to toss out all your gear and start over. If you have a toon today, right now that can run rav in HM, it won't be able to do that in 4 weeks. That was not the case before, ever, in SWTOR. That is the biggest problem with changing the old content, it removes it as an option for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 I didn't read all pages but the biggest kick in the nuts is to people still working on HM Rav/ToS progression. Like me. If I don't kill all bosses by 4.0 I will have to spend months getting back to the gear level to continue working on the final bosses. They should have raised everything to 60 instead of 65. Saved new gear tiers for when they introduce new Ops and raise them all to 65 then with the new gear. ^ This right here is the issue, that so many people want to keep glossing over and ignoring... Today, right now, I have multiple toons in 192 set bonus gear ready for HM Rav and HM ToS. When 4.0 drops, that will no longer be the case. If I want to run HM Rav and HM ToS, I have to throw out all that gear and rerun SM Rav and SM ToS over and over and over to gear up again. But I did that already, thus the title of the thread, that it is just a reset to current content, nothing more. Making me toss out my existing end game gear and regrind for new gear doing the exact same content as before, is nothing more than taking away my current gear and putting me back into 162 gear would be. The effect is the same, I'd have to go rerun the SM ops all over again, multiple times, to get back to where I am right now, today. If the existing content were staying at lvl 60 and we had new group content coming for lvl 65, then this wouldn't be an issue. It wasn't an issue at 2.0, it wasn't an issue at 3.0. It is an issue with 4.0. I can do HM ops today, I can't in 4 weeks. When 3.0 dropped, I could still do HM ops, the existing ones (TFB/S&V/DF/DP/TC) didn't go away. Now they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) In 4.0, those options are going away, now you have to toss out all your gear and start over. When they raised the level cap we all had to toss out our gear to find new gear to meet the OPS requirement to be able to defeat the bosses. It happens now, it happened with the previous expansions. It will happen again if they release another new expansion with a level raise. I am happy with it, it is simply how it works. Now we even get to have fun with the old OPS, since they make them challenging again. Edited September 17, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindxsecrets Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) ^ This right here is the issue, that so many people want to keep glossing over and ignoring... Today, right now, I have multiple toons in 192 set bonus gear ready for HM Rav and HM ToS. When 4.0 drops, that will no longer be the case. If I want to run HM Rav and HM ToS, I have to throw out all that gear and rerun SM Rav and SM ToS over and over and over to gear up again. I was under the impression that all Operations would be set to 65, so while yes...you will have to run SM versions again to re-gear, it doesn't have to be Rav or ToS, right? While I, too, have several toons geared for HM ToS and Rav and am disappointed that I have to toss out all that gear and start over....(which happens whenever an expansion comes out) I'm happy that operations no one really wanted to run much (except to faceroll content or for deco in my experience) will have more of a reason to run them again and will at least shake things up a bit so it's not the same two Ops over and over and over again. I just wish they were still available at 50/55/60 and 65 instead of all going to 65...but still. I'm content with variety and am looking forward to seeing some of the Ops I haven't run in years all over again with a better reason (at least for me) to run them. =D Edited September 17, 2015 by blindxsecrets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Do you know what I enjoyed most about SoR? The lack of requirement to farm for new gear to run content (aside from the fact the vendor gear / flashpoint gear drops were utter trash this time round). Heat-Wave sums it up nicely, it's like 3.0 all over again with the stat squish, and we've spent 9 months getting back to previous levels.... and now we get to do it all over again. I'm not okay with that, the whole point to me as a player is to improve my character so I can go back and play some of the older content on a harder mode that I couldn't do previously because it's overtuned by a bunch of 15 year old kids who have nothing better to do than play games, or because we didn't have enough players online to do it then - at least over-levelled you can do this currently. Oh well, least there is the story that I can burn through in a few days. funny because in your signature you already plan on unsubbing and playing other games and you havent even tried KOTFE, so your opinion holds no weight to me, your just another doom and gloom poster trying to make yourself feel better about leaving and hoping others join you.. See ya bud, enjoy WoW legion. Edited September 17, 2015 by SaerethDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) When they raised the level cap we all had to toss out our gear to find new gear to meet the OPS requirement to be able to defeat the bosses. It happens now, it happened with the previous expansions. It will happen again if they release another new expansion with a level raise. I am happy with it, it is simply how it works. Now we even get to have fun with the old OPS, since they make them challenging again. When 146 gear was added, we got EC. When 150 gear was added, we got TfB When 2.0 added a new level cap and 168/172 gear, we got SnV When 180/186 gear was added, we got DF/DP When 3.0 added a new level cap and 192/198 gear, we got Rav/ToS We've added 8 complete tiers of endgame gear grind since launch. And every single new grind was accompanied by new content. Until now. You keep saying things like "it is simply how it works". Can you truly not grok how this time it is different? A gear grind that is not accompanied new content. Edited September 17, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 When 146 gear was added, we got EC. When 150 gear was added, we got TfB When 2.0 added a new level cap and 168/172 gear, we got SnV When 180/186 gear was added, we got DF/DP When 3.0 added a new level cap and 192/198 gear, we got Rav/ToS We've added 8 complete tiers of endgame gear grind since launch. And every single new grind was accompanied by new content. Until now. You keep saying things like "it is simply how it works". Can you truly not grok how this time it is different? A gear grind that is not accompanied new content. that would be different if they where keeping all the old operations and fp at the same difficulty, but they are totally remastering the old operations so that you can play them with the appropriate challenge now, and get gear that you can actually use, instead of the same ol faceroll everyone operation and roll on gear that you will never use.. this needed to be done BEFORE any new operations come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) that would be different if they where keeping all the old operations and fp at the same difficulty, but they are totally remastering the old operations so that you can play them with the appropriate challenge now, and get gear that you can actually use, instead of the same ol faceroll everyone operation and roll on gear that you will never use.. this needed to be done BEFORE any new operations come around. Don't misunderstand my point. I understand WHY there are no new operations with 4.0. All resources went into the KotFE story. I'm just trying to bridge Icestar's refusal to understand the position being made in this thread. The fact of the matter is, Heat makes an excellent point -- why do a level bump? Why not scale everything up to 60 instead? Edited September 17, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 While I am also against not getting new Operation content in this expansion and will continue to play ToR. I remember when 2.0 came out, they rescaled TFB which originally was a level 50 Op to 55, and added SnV. so while 2.0 did add an Operation it was only one. Some here seem to have forgotten TFB was a level 50 Op originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaerethDL Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Don't misunderstand my point. I understand WHY there are no new operations with 4.0. All resources went into the KotFE story. I'm just trying to bridge Icestar's refusal to understand the position being made in this thread. The fact of the matter is, Heat makes an excellent point -- why do a level bump? Why not scale everything up to 60 instead? Probably because they want you to level up while doing the KOTFE storyline? They want you to get something out of it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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