Please make level scaling optional in KotFE

[EnkiduNineEight]

If it was optional, then NO ONE would do the scaling. It would defeat the whole purpose of adding it in. Let's just be honest, players will look for the easiest route, plain and simple. Sometimes barriers need to be put in for our own good.

 

if it was optional and no one did it, wouldn't that be a good hint as to the desirability of the idea in the first place?

 

NO ONE was asking for this. Very few people appear to think it is a great idea.

 

If it goes live I will not be resubbing. They lose the equivalent of 25 subscriptions if that is the case.

[Tsillah]

if it was optional and no one did it, wouldn't that be a good hint as to the desirability of the idea in the first place?

 

That's an IF that we'll never find out.

 

NO ONE was asking for this. Very few people appear to think it is a great idea.

 

As far as you know and you know nothing Enkidu Snow. Let's be honest. This forum is not representative of the whole player base and neither you nor I, or anyone else here for that matter, has a real clue what people want.

 

If it goes live I will not be resubbing. They lose the equivalent of 25 subscriptions if that is the case.

 

It will go live and some will leave. Some of those will come back, some won't. Life will go on. And just as much as the game may lose you and some friends, others might be excited and invite new friends...oh and the movie is coming out, that might bring some new players in as well, who probably would benefit from an overhauled game....go figure.

 

They do this scaling thing in GW2 and it works pretty good there. That game is rather boring beyond that but there is more merit in doing downscaling. Might even help the gank, I mean pvp servers.

[Sildanar]

Down scaling of your character to the upper limit of a planets level range (same as GW2) is a

 

 

FANTASTIC IDEA!

 

It makes all content of a game relevant at all times.

I have tried to do the Nar Shadaa bonus series wwhen I out leveled it and it bores me to tears, it feels wrong, unexciting and unengaging.

 

When I saw how this feature worked in GW2 I said to myself ALL games should do it, it is such a powerful way to make all the massive amounts of created content relevant, interesting and engaging at ANY LEVEL that I feel it is essentail to any mmo game development studio.

 

It must be frustrating to have people say, there is nothing to do when as a developer you can see (as Im sure they can) that the percentage of people who complete all the leveling content ie every single quest in game is probably tiny. Meaning probably in the order of less than 1%.

Level scaling that includes quest reward scaling as credits massively increases your active and relevant content in your game, thus maximising your return on studio development time.

 

You have this massive game but people bypass most of it and then it is irrelevant WHY?? This is a waste of resources and time, hence why I strongly believe this is excellent news both from a players perspective and a developers perspective..

 

 

This idea gets a

 

YES

 

from me.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Then just get rid of levels entirely. And since everyone is bolstered up and down, no need for gear.

 

And since everything will basically be the same, no need for mob art etc. Just give us a cube with a direction indicator. That would probably solve the performance problems too.

[Rhyltran]

Down scaling of your character to the upper limit of a planets level range (same as GW2) is a

 

 

FANTASTIC IDEA!

 

It makes all content of a game relevant at all times.

I have tried to do the Nar Shadaa bonus series wwhen I out leveled it and it bores me to tears, it feels wrong, unexciting and unengaging.

 

When I saw how this feature worked in GW2 I said to myself ALL games should do it, it is such a powerful way to make all the massive amounts of created content relevant, interesting and engaging at ANY LEVEL that I feel it is essentail to any mmo game development studio.

 

It must be frustrating to have people say, there is nothing to do when as a developer you can see (as Im sure they can) that the percentage of people who complete all the leveling content ie every single quest in game is probably tiny. Meaning probably in the order of less than 1%.

Level scaling that includes quest reward scaling as credits massively increases your active and relevant content in your game, thus maximising your return on studio development time.

 

You have this massive game but people bypass most of it and then it is irrelevant WHY?? This is a waste of resources and time, hence why I strongly believe this is excellent news both from a players perspective and a developers perspective..

 

 

This idea gets a

 

YES

 

from me.

 

I played guild wars 2. I was curious why they even bothered to have levels. Gear is practically irrelevant in GW as well. Also the content will be even more irrelevant anyway. Most people quest to gain levels. Most people don't do older content and it's not because it was too easy but because it was irrelevant. They no longer needed the exp those quests require. Most people race to the end game. To most people that is the only relevance of side quests. I'm sure there's a bigger number of people who, out of boredom, come back for some easy achievements. Many of those people, with the added difficulty, won't do them because there's a reason they didn't do them the first time around.

 

I feel people like you would be in the minority. That's my opinion.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Damask_Rose]

Well, this will probably end my participation in conquests. After crafting, most of my points come from heroics and a smattering of over leveled flashpoints, world bosses and planet kill counts. There won't be anything left for me to do.

[TravelersWay]

Down scaling of your character to the upper limit of a planets level range (same as GW2) is a

 

 

FANTASTIC IDEA!

 

It makes all content of a game relevant at all times.

I have tried to do the Nar Shadaa bonus series wwhen I out leveled it and it bores me to tears, it feels wrong, unexciting and unengaging.

 

When I saw how this feature worked in GW2 I said to myself ALL games should do it, it is such a powerful way to make all the massive amounts of created content relevant, interesting and engaging at ANY LEVEL that I feel it is essentail to any mmo game development studio.

 

It must be frustrating to have people say, there is nothing to do when as a developer you can see (as Im sure they can) that the percentage of people who complete all the leveling content ie every single quest in game is probably tiny. Meaning probably in the order of less than 1%.

Level scaling that includes quest reward scaling as credits massively increases your active and relevant content in your game, thus maximising your return on studio development time.

 

You have this massive game but people bypass most of it and then it is irrelevant WHY?? This is a waste of resources and time, hence why I strongly believe this is excellent news both from a players perspective and a developers perspective..

 

 

This idea gets a

 

YES

 

from me.

 

It is a great idea ... when the individual player has the decision placed in his or her hands as to when it is active and when it is not - in other words:

 

OPTIONAL

Edited September 20, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Toraak]

I'm not sure where everyone else getting the info about lowering your level to the planet for Heroics or World bosses from. They did say this for FP's, But i've never seen it said anywhere for Open world stuff.

[TravelersWay]

I'm not sure where everyone else getting the info about lowering your level to the planet for Heroics or World bosses from. They did say this for FP's, But i've never seen it said anywhere for Open world stuff.

 

From sources that Shall Not Be Named on the forums. Right now it is a rumor, but one that can clearly rankle the playerbase depending on how it is implemented.

 

And hence we see another problem with BioWare's testing and vetting procedures. No way in heck should systemic changes like they are planning should not have a through open beta testing period longer than the week that they are calling Early Access. Heck, they don't even have to provide any KotFE content, but the changes to the core mechanics of the game need to be tested and vetted properly - in an open beta period.

[Khevar]

They do this scaling thing in GW2 and it works pretty good there.

How does the level scaling work in GW2? Are high level toons with high level gear overpowered (compared to low-level mobs) when scaled down?

 

It seems that otherwise, there would be no point to gaining levels or gear at all.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Khevar

[Max_Killjoy]

If it was optional, then NO ONE would do the scaling. It would defeat the whole purpose of adding it in. Let's just be honest, players will look for the easiest route, plain and simple. Sometimes barriers need to be put in for our own good.

 

"For our own good".

 

If NO ONE would do it, maybe it's not such a great idea...

 

 

It NEEDS to be optional, if for no other reason than that so that players can vote with their feet.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[MandFlurry]

they were never meant to be soloed in the first place.

 

They were if YOU OUTLEVELED for just Achievements them. This scaling is Stupidity at it's greatest. If ppl want to do the Heroics being scaled that's fine,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Actually IT ISNT'T Fine, it's damned rediculous. Like i said with all this Junk that has been put into the Nerfing the hell and scaling all these thing, They could've easily, as I said made probably more like 4 NEW FP's and OP's, could be a Lot More.

 

At this point you should No Longer even have any kind of Leveling Period. MMO's which this is being a now a Single Player game with just DLC's. MMO's have Leveling for a very good reason.

 

1) So ppl will have a sense of Real Accomplishment, so when you lvl, You are Less likely to be killed and needlessly herrasseed by mobs that We should No Longer have to be afraid of Because of the FACT that We are Suppossed to be far Superior to the life on said lower lvl Planets after 10 to 15 lvl above them, hell even 5 lvls sometimes we shouldn't have to worry too much about getting killed.

 

2) By being higher leveled at a certain level I Should be able to Solo Almost everything. With Re-scaling We Are being Nerfed to Hell, not giving us any Reason to lvl with anAyny Real Satisfaction. What the Devs have done, is Really Nerfing our higher lvl'd Characters that we worked Hard for to be abe to Beat the hell out this now Lowly stupid NPCs that used to kill us and herrass us all the time. We should always at a Certain Lvl be able to Solo 98% of things.

 

I could go on and on and on four hours of Reasons over and over again, but Facts are facts when I leave a Planet behing and come back when i'm up to 15-20 lvls later. Yeah i better be able to kil those 98% of thing without any blood-loss and dodge everything.

 

Now, if scaling back ur Level is an Option, then i'm ok with that. But if it's forced on me, then that's another reason for me to no re-sub again.

 

I know most ppl Will want that as an Option. Because facts are that at Certain levels, we Should be able to Kick every1s arses around.

 

Keyword Is Optional.

 

For Comms, I Definitely see the reason for any Re-scale. Otherwise hell no. Even with Achievements.

Edited September 20, 2015 by MandFlurry

[Aricus]

How does the level scaling work in GW2? Are high level toons with high level gear overpowered (compared to low-level mobs) when scaled down?

 

It seems that otherwise, there would be no point to gaining levels or gear at all.

 

Your levels and gear are still taken into account.

 

Think of it this way. When you first arrived on Korriban/Tython you didn't have many talents or skills. However, lets assume that you were level 65 and had level 65 artifact gear and were to return back to Korriban/Tython. The moment you set foot on Korriban, you would be down leveled to 10 but still keep all your skills and talents and would be in equivalent to level 10 artifact gear.

 

In other words you're still very powerful in fact much more powerful than when you first arrived to Korriban, but not stupid powerful to where everything trivial and dies in one hit.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Aricus

[Khevar]

In other words you're still very powerful in fact much more powerful than when you first arrived to Korriban, but not stupid powerful to where everything trivial and dies in one hit.

Thanks.

 

Does GW2 have areas with level ranges like TOR does? As in, Alderaan has level 28-32. So my question would be, if TOR's planetary level scaling worked like GW2s, would one's level be adjusted to level 32 wearing 32 artifact gear? Or in the middle (e.g. 30).

[Jeweledleah]

Thanks.

 

Does GW2 have areas with level ranges like TOR does? As in, Alderaan has level 28-32. So my question would be, if TOR's planetary level scaling worked like GW2s, would one's level be adjusted to level 32 wearing 32 artifact gear? Or in the middle (e.g. 30).

 

Every area has a level range. moreover - each zone has different level ranges and its possible to be horribly underleveled if you wonder off a little too far. think Alderaan bonus series, vs regular alderaaan lvls for one example.

 

that said, it automatically scales you down to the upper level of mobs in the area. so for instance if a particular area (not zone) has mobs lvl 3-5? you are going to be lvl 5. you can move few feet down into the area that lvl's 6-8 and your level automatically goes up to that (assuming your actual level is at or above that - it only scales you down, not up)

 

honestly? this level scaling and general level ranging is THE reason why while I enjoy GW2 every once in a while it will never be my primary MMO. becasue you will never outlevel content you find difficult. can't really outgear it either, not substantially.

[Allamirr]

So basically all the old planets, Heroics and quests, ill be forced to scale to the level of it? The more i hear about this the more i really dont like it at all. Leveling means nothing then, whats the point of leveling to 65 if im just gonna be scaled down for everything. That is no fun at all, I love to solo Heroics and flashpoints once i outlevel them, that was the main reason i looked foreword to leveling up. I got to do things on my own terms and not have to beg or join groups, or be at the mercy of the random rolling.

 

The main reason i became a sub for this game, was the huge solo aspect of it, take that away and i have no reason to Sub, might as well be Free to play. I am so annoyed and ticked off i spent so much money in this game, but thats my own fault, just wish i had known this was coming alot sooner, would have saved me from buying all those hypercrates. Not buying anything else til i see what this new expansion brings. if it turns out to be as bad as everyone is saying, then free to play here i come!

I hope this scaling thing is optional, really really hope it is.

[SaerethDL]

So basically all the old planets, Heroics and quests, ill be forced to scale to the level of it? The more i hear about this the more i really dont like it at all. Leveling means nothing then, whats the point of leveling to 65 if im just gonna be scaled down for everything. That is no fun at all, I love to solo Heroics and flashpoints once i outlevel them, that was the main reason i looked foreword to leveling up. I got to do things on my own terms and not have to beg or join groups, or be at the mercy of the random rolling.

 

The main reason i became a sub for this game, was the huge solo aspect of it, take that away and i have no reason to Sub, might as well be Free to play. I am so annoyed and ticked off i spent so much money in this game, but thats my own fault, just wish i had known this was coming alot sooner, would have saved me from buying all those hypercrates. Not buying anything else til i see what this new expansion brings. if it turns out to be as bad as everyone is saying, then free to play here i come!

I hope this scaling thing is optional, really really hope it is.

 

You ever heard of the NGE from SWG? This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

[Heat-Wave]

Every area has a level range. moreover - each zone has different level ranges and its possible to be horribly underleveled if you wonder off a little too far. think Alderaan bonus series, vs regular alderaaan lvls for one example.

 

that said, it automatically scales you down to the upper level of mobs in the area. so for instance if a particular area (not zone) has mobs lvl 3-5? you are going to be lvl 5. you can move few feet down into the area that lvl's 6-8 and your level automatically goes up to that (assuming your actual level is at or above that - it only scales you down, not up)

 

honestly? this level scaling and general level ranging is THE reason why while I enjoy GW2 every once in a while it will never be my primary MMO. becasue you will never outlevel content you find difficult. can't really outgear it either, not substantially.

 

^ fair enough... but under such a system, why even have levels?

[Khevar]

honestly? this level scaling and general level ranging is THE reason why while I enjoy GW2 every once in a while it will never be my primary MMO. becasue you will never outlevel content you find difficult. can't really outgear it either, not substantially.

Interesting.

 

Well, the one thing I would hope is that operations gear factors into what happens during any scaling. For example, a "downbolster" to level 31 to run Cademimu SM:

 

A level 60 wearing 186 purples would become a level 31 wearing 86 purples

A level 60 wearing 192 purples would become a level 31 wearing 90 purples

A level 60 wearing 198 purples would become a level 31 wearing 94 purples

 

In other words, let end game gear have a greater impact on the level scaling. This would at least assist those who still want to feel powerful when going back to lower levels. And a level 31 in 94 gear? That's almost as good as having an additional 4 levels.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Khevar

[Jeweledleah]

^ fair enough... but under such a system, why even have levels?

 

I don't know. I honestly don't know. its like.. arbitrary thing they added because MMO's have levels? which defeats the whole purpose of having open world sandboxy MMo in a first place but... yeah, I have no idea. its not my favorite thing in a world. I play GW2 (very occasionally, cause its pretty) in spite of it, not becasue of it.

[Heat-Wave]

You ever heard of the NGE from SWG? This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

 

If the changes that are being talked about go live, it might well be just that...

 

Bioware is changing the core nature of the game, this isn't a small change, it is a huge one, and they are being totally silent about it.

 

This might be why the expansion is "free", because of the issues with Trials of Obi-Wan coming out 2 weeks before NGE and all the people wanting refunds back then.

[Shipwright]

I cannot see being against an option to toggle off being being scaled down to a planets' level. Options are good.

 

Hopefully being scaled down to a planets' level without choice will not be true. I can see it turning off far more people than pleasing them. Options are great, lack of options simply limits things and will cause people to simply do less. If someone really wants to "faceroll" Korriban, I don't care, nor should I. It is a sickness to be so concerned with someone doing something like this. So I'm doing my Yavin or Ziost weekly; i'd be sick if I was upset cause some other level 60 is is on Korriban at level 60 and able to 1 shot an acolyte.

 

With an option, we would have a sort of "mentoring" choice.This is great. I'd love this.

 

With no option however, it is just going to irritate more people than it pleases, and to no end other than to satisfy those who love to dictate how others play and mock those who disagree.

[DalrisThane]

Well, if they go the GW2 route, my interest will drop. I was considering quitting GW2 when I got perma-banned for a set of forum posts of mine. (The subconscious is a scary thing.) Level scaling doesn't work for me for how I play.

 

I have np admitting... I don't have skill. Anything is remotely tough, I wait until my numbers (levels, gear, whatever) can overcompensate my criminal lack of "L2P" as the kids say these days. They downscale me? I'll just skip the content I used to do, that's all.

 

And, if the goal is to encourage us to group, well, I have stories of grouping in SWTOR on year 1 (that nobody believes, jumping the gun on some posters here, so no point going into details) and my RL friends and family have all quit SWTOR. Not going to happen.

 

So, worst comes to worst, I'll do what many are predicting here: I'll play the story, maybe putter with an alt or so, and come back with the next chapter.

 

Question (that I can't answer) is... am I going to be the exception, or the rule? Might be more of me than people realize, considering the shaming / attack posts that are prevalent when any "dares" to like to faceroll... ergo, they stop posting here. Guess we find out in a month or so...

Edited September 20, 2015 by DalrisThane

[Finiffa]

I really really disliked the levelscaling in GW2, if they put it in TOR my interest will drop fast I fear. I play at weird times so grouping is usually out of the question. Plus I like to do old content while being overlevelled....

[Tsillah]

I have np admitting... I don't have skill. Anything is remotely tough, I wait until my numbers (levels, gear, whatever) can overcompensate my criminal lack of "L2P" as the kids say these days. They downscale me? I'll just skip the content I used to do, that's all.

 

Uhm, what can I say...if you had trouble doing content in GW2 while downleveled, well, how can I say this other than using your own words that you have no skill at all. I mean when I visited lower level areas with my level 80 in Exotic gear (which is dead easy to get), I would just turn on auto attack and sit back most of the time. Even some bosses in dungeons I used to kill with auto attack only. The only thing that could make things tricky in GW2 is that they built the game and mob density around overaggro. That won't be the case here in SWTOR.

 

I can only say that gaming does require a minimum amount of skill. In MMOs the game needs to be balanced so there's still enough challenge but not too hard for the average player. I doubt SWTOR will go as far as to cater to the unskilled because that would completely ruin the game for the majority of players. Sorry to say but SWTOR is a pretty easy game as far as MMOs go and if this will be too hard for you, then so be it I guess. It really baffles me that you had a hard time in GW2 by being downleveled.

 

It begs the question why you would play a game that you aren't good at and not wanting to learn or being able to get better at it? That's sort of the point of MMOs...