Please make level scaling optional in KotFE

[TravelersWay]

Nope, people still divided into two camps that agree and disagree with that in that very topic.

 

However, Legacy Datacrons are more of a "community wish" (for part of the community), a lot different from this system. If they posted "hey, we are doing a system that will allow you to drop your level on low level planets" (of course, edited to be PR correct), it would look exactly the same as it does here, minus some speculations.

 

The for/against thing is irrespective of the information provided. Mentoring was also a community wish, and one that is implemented very well in several other MMOs as an optional thing. Sure, there would still be a discussion on the topic if BW was forthright with community about it and how it will be implemented - that's just the nature of gaming forums. But at least those discussions could be done on a more productive level with the correct information.

Edited September 22, 2015 by TravelersWay

[SebastiaanZ]

Is this confirmed?

 

I frankly hate this idea, not because i'm a hardcore soloer or hardcore grouper, but because i play in a server that is practically dead after a certain hour so i can't imagine myself wanting to get some random gear piece, from an heroic in nar shadaa and having to spend 1 hour looking for a group to do said heroic even if i am originally a lvl 65. Also, if they do this, means that they have so much faith in KoTFE that they think it's going to attract a lot of people but i certainly doubt it, shadow of revan was supossed to do that and look now...

 

It's just that.

 

It hasn't been confirmed, but this rumor calls for an official response and quickly. Cause that gives me enough time to consider unsubbing. I won't be forced into playing this game in a way I DO NOT WANT. Surely they can consider not doing this, or make this for groups only and leave the solo players as it is.

 

It has been good for about 4 years now, why change a good thing?

[timskijwalker]

I really support this thread and love playing the game solo. going back to newbie planets and feeling like a bad-*** is a lot of fun. please don't remove that.

 

make it optional at least.

[TravelersWay]

Optional scaling is like the Tree specs prior to 3.0, it's simply an illusion to Options. having an option will simply mean no one will ever turn the scaling on because it gives them an INCREDIBLY UNFAIR advantage over those who do have it. Especially when it comes to people trying to group for world bosses. Any other situation I am all for option, this case it will make it FAR WORSE or make the scaling completely useless

 

That's a load of malarkey. It would be used by a great many people in the game - especially if it is an optional mentoring system, like several other games have. There are good reasons to have a system in place, and I am glad they are working on one, if that is indeed the case. However, there are also many good reasons to make it an optional system - just like 12x xp was finally made optional.

 

And the previous skill trees did give options - for those who didn't care about PvP or OPs. That's where the system ran into problems, and necessitated the change.. But sure as heck, I had more options for a build with the old system as compared with the new. Same thing with GW1 and GW2 - way more options in the former. Were all of them ideal? Heck no, but a lot of crazy builds can be fun - and that is the point that is often overlooked.

Edited September 22, 2015 by TravelersWay

[DalrisThane]

Trying to force square shape into a circle doesn't change the fact that it's still a square shape.

 

Thank you for your own reply. And, yes, that's what I'm doing. Heck, I almost used that very same example. I'm just worried that despite you being correct, there still might be more players leaving than coming back. But, you're right, we might as well wait and see and whatever happens, happens.

 

Thank you again for the reply.

[DalrisThane]

Only if you take it by it's absolute most literal connotations which no one is asking or expecting you to do.

 

I completely agree with you Rhyltran, but people like that just want to stir up trouble. Heck, their post even started with "laughing" at people. I'd tell them what I think about when I laugh, but it's a moderated board, so, that's that.

 

Anyhow, it's as if, IRL, Rhyltran, you're saying "I'm starving", and the other person is correcting you that you aren't actually "starving" even though they know darn well what you mean. THAT is the conversation you're having with them. Your call if that's how you want to spend your time, Rhyltran.

 

In case you missed my point in my meandering, illogical, hyperbolic ramblings (might as well jump the gun on how they'll categorise this post), I totally agree with you Rhyltran when you talk about "forced", but I don't think you'll achieve the desired result with your conversation with those people...

Edited September 22, 2015 by DalrisThane

[Transcendent]

Context please. I didn't say they ignore the forums, I said they most likely ignore a certain types of posts/posters.

 

Well I did link to your post, how much context would you like? A wall of text quote? Nope, it has context if people can be bothered to link back to the original post. If not, then why should I be concerned at the laziness of a reader?

 

Also I doubt they do ignore certain types of posts / posters. They probably categorize them and collate it all statistically to provide feedback or use it to guide "opinion". Whether they act on something is a completely different matter..... *Cartel Slot Machine*

[Rhyltran]

And at no point will he be made to do it because it's his choice to begin with to even play the game. Saying "I'll never do this thing is a game unless I am forced to do it" is the same as saying "I will never do this thing in a game."

 

Yeah. That's the exact point I'm making. So why is it laughable? He's stating he won't do it.

 

I completely agree with you Rhyltran, but people like that just want to stir up trouble. Heck, their post even started with "laughing" at people. I'd tell them what I think about when I laugh, but it's a moderated board, so, that's that.

 

Anyhow, it's as if, IRL, Rhyltran, you're saying "I'm starving", and the other person is correcting you that you aren't actually "starving" even though they know darn well what you mean. THAT is the conversation you're having with them. Your call if that's how you want to spend your time, Rhyltran.

 

In case you missed my point in my meandering, illogical, hyperbolic ramblings (might as well jump the gun on how they'll categorise this post), I totally agree with you Rhyltran when you talk about "forced", but I don't think you'll achieve the desired result with your conversation with those people...

 

I'm aware. I only made one additional statement out of it but I'm done with it after.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Kingsbount]

Im not completely understand motives of people who actually supports downgrade.

 

I mean if you so desperately want challenge - create another toon and run all planets with 2 levels lower than requiered level. Isnt this will be challenging?

 

Or run ops and FP completely naked...

Kill Nightmare pilgrim with bare hands...

There's PLENTY of challenge that doesn't require ruin other peaple experience.

 

Whats your problem people?

If you don't like to be overpowered - then why the heck are you even visit low level planets in the first place??

 

If you really wnat this downgarde so badly - ask yourself with only one question:

 

WILL IT REWARD YOU?

 

The answer is NO.

 

Becouse if you will run level 47 Heroic with downgraded 60 lvl character - reward will STILL be 47 level item.

And what's the point?

[Max_Killjoy]

Optional scaling is like the Tree specs prior to 3.0, it's simply an illusion to Options. having an option will simply mean no one will ever turn the scaling on because it gives them an INCREDIBLY UNFAIR advantage over those who do have it. Especially when it comes to people trying to group for world bosses. Any other situation I am all for option, this case it will make it FAR WORSE or make the scaling completely useless

 

If no one turns the scaling on, maybe that should tell Bioware something.

 

Why be afraid to let the customer vote with their feet?

[TravelersWay]

Im not completely understand motives of people who actually supports downgrade.

 

I mean if you so desperately want challenge - create another toon and run all planets with 2 levels lower than requiered level. Isnt this will be challenging?

 

Or run ops and FP completely naked...

Kill Nightmare pilgrim with bare hands...

There's PLENTY of challenge that doesn't require ruin other peaple experience.

 

Whats your problem people?

If you don't like to be overpowered - then why the heck are you even visit low level planets in the first place??

 

If you really wnat this downgarde so badly - ask yourself with only one question:

 

WILL IT REWARD YOU?

 

The answer is NO.

 

Becouse if you will run level 47 Heroic with downgraded 60 lvl character - reward will STILL be 47 level item.

And what's the point?

 

There are benefits to having a downscaling system, one of which is that players do not have to come up with alternatives like you mentioned in order to keep content relevant to them. It also allows them the freedom to play in a manner that they don't have to worry about out leveling content - like with 12 x xp.

 

In all reality, this most likely is BW's solution for the streamlined leveling process. Since they are shortening the leveling part of the game, but still not removing any of the side/filler quests, they think this is the best solution to maintaining the pace and challenge of the planets for those who like to do all the content. However, what they probably didn't think about are those who enjoy having the ability to be over leveled for things, regardless of the reasons.

[Max_Killjoy]

There are benefits to having a downscaling system, one of which is that players do not have to come up with alternatives like you mentioned in order to keep content relevant to them. It also allows them the freedom to play in a manner that they don't have to worry about out leveling content - like with 12 x xp.

 

In all reality, this most likely is BW's solution for the streamlined leveling process. Since they are shortening the leveling part of the game, but still not removing any of the side/filler quests, they think this is the best solution to maintaining the pace and challenge of the planets for those who like to do all the content. However, what they probably didn't think about are those who enjoy having the ability to be over leveled for things, regardless of the reasons.

 

I'd much rather be overleveled a bit, than forced to the "correct" level.

[Geeorgedk]

I love 'facerolling content' on a high level character, either because I'm bored/want to take a stroll, I need achievements or helping someone. So I do hope this never goes live.

If it does I'll probably unsub. What use are levels if we're being delevelled? I find it immersion breaking as well, as others have commented. The Emperor's hand having to fight initiates on Dromund Kaas, no thanks.

 

Guild Wars 2 has this system and it was probably the main reason I played it only for a couple of months, just to see what the game was about.

[Max_Killjoy]

Think about this, since it's Bounty Week.

 

You're hunting Grov on Hutta... do you want to have to fight through a bunch of trash mobs while you're downleveled, just to get to him?

 

Sorry, I have no interested in playing Bounty Weak.

[Kingsbount]

Think about this, since it's Bounty Week.

 

You're hunting Grov on Hutta... do you want to have to fight through a bunch of trash mobs while you're downleveled, just to get to him?

 

Sorry, I have no interested in playing Bounty Weak.

 

My thoughts exactly.

Same way i don't wont to be downgraded for daily planets.

 

I want to be a person, who will complete dailys in SMALLEST TIME POSSIBLE. Time is money.

I don't want to spend hour just to complete Black Hole for example (i'm not gonna even talk about Makeb or Oricon).

 

This s**t will slow my progress. Not improve it.

 

UPDATE:

 

I just realized...

If ALL planets and FP will downgrade your character...

WHAT'S THE POINT TO LEVELING THEN?????? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Just make characters lvl 60 by default. At least it will be FAIR.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Kingsbount

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Im not completely understand motives of people who actually supports downgrade.

 

I mean if you so desperately want challenge - create another toon and run all planets with 2 levels lower than requiered level. Isnt this will be challenging?

 

Or run ops and FP completely naked...

Kill Nightmare pilgrim with bare hands...

There's PLENTY of challenge that doesn't require ruin other peaple experience.

 

Whats your problem people?

If you don't like to be overpowered - then why the heck are you even visit low level planets in the first place??

 

If you really wnat this downgarde so badly - ask yourself with only one question:

 

WILL IT REWARD YOU?

 

The answer is NO.

 

Becouse if you will run level 47 Heroic with downgraded 60 lvl character - reward will STILL be 47 level item.

And what's the point?

 

Not necessarily true. From what I understand it's very possible that the rewards will scale up if you scale down (since you're playing it "on level" you'll get rewards for your actual level).

 

As for motivations, even without that, I'll ask you a question. Say you have a friend that wants to group up with you for a bit but they're lower leveled. Without this in place, you'll go through and wreck everything in their path before they can blink at the enemies and they will get practically no XP from the kills because of the level difference between you and the mobs. That's how it works. If they want XP from those kills, they have to be grouped with similarly leveled characters. Without this, what would you say to that person? Too bad? If this is indeed a thing, they could group with their friend who could then downscale so they'd get XP.

 

I'd much prefer it be a toggle, myself, but there are benefits to adding it.

[Kingsbount]

Not necessarily true. From what I understand it's very possible that the rewards will scale up if you scale down (since you're playing it "on level" you'll get rewards for your actual level).

 

As for motivations, even without that, I'll ask you a question. Say you have a friend that wants to group up with you for a bit but they're lower leveled. Without this in place, you'll go through and wreck everything in their path before they can blink at the enemies and they will get practically no XP from the kills because of the level difference between you and the mobs. That's how it works. If they want XP from those kills, they have to be grouped with similarly leveled characters. Without this, what would you say to that person? Too bad? If this is indeed a thing, they could group with their friend who could then downscale so they'd get XP.

 

I'd much prefer it be a toggle, myself, but there are benefits to adding it.

 

You can always make a char. This doesn't require ANY downgrade.

There's Kuat Drive Yards. Which also doesn't require ANY downgrade.

 

There's ALWAYS a way without doing some idiotic things like "downgrade".

 

I can see how it's gonna work in FP.

But in leveling content like planetary quests... It's unnesessary, stupid and painful. Like a nail in your foot.

Downgrading in GROUP FINDER content indeed will provide some sort of "resurrection" for an old content.

But again - ONLY in Group Finder.

[Jedi_riches]

I'd much rather be overleveled a bit, than forced to the "correct" level.

 

I enjoy games more than I am good at them, most of the time I play games on easy dificulty as I am more of a story feind on all games than a pro gamer.

 

Its the same with this game I am completly "average" when it comes to playing games so to "help" me it is really good to be a few levels over what I am doing (not so I can faceroll content, just have a safety barrier for many many mistakes).

 

I am so hoping the scaling system is optional as it may effect my enjoyment of the game if suddenly I have to concentrate on the game 100% rather than being distracted easy like I am at the moment.

[Nikonthenet]

Does anyone know if level-scaling effects world-PvP, please?

 

If it does, then we will have whole planets to fight over where you can guarantee some engaging fights. As it is now, players are 'immune' to anyone 4 or 5 levels below them and world-pvp is pointless.

 

Planets all have level ranges, and I imagine that a higher level player will be at the upper limit of that range and rarely if ever, the same level as the NPC's they fight. Just one or two levels above an NPC means you can pretty much insta-kill them, and they do not drag you from your mount if you take the minimum of precaution.

 

I think down-scaling is exactly what this game needs. The amount of group content now accessible to players with this move is VAST.

 

For people complaining they can now nolonger Solo content, I feel for you, I too hate it when people takes things I enjoy away...but in this case I suggest you have lost sight of the fact this is an MMO, not a single player game.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Nikonthenet

[Upirlikhyi]

i may be wrong but i thought they were adding solo modes to the old fp's?

 

i could have sworn i saw that was what they were doing but it scaled you down in level and you keep your skills and such....which wouldn't be all that bad

 

i could have mis read it though

[Icestar]

I wonder if they intend to wait until the next cantina to release more information about the expansion

[Upirlikhyi]

I wonder if they intend to wait until the next cantina to release more information about the expansion

 

you would hope with less then a month to early access they would start releasing more info

[TravelersWay]

As for motivations, even without that, I'll ask you a question. Say you have a friend that wants to group up with you for a bit but they're lower leveled. Without this in place, you'll go through and wreck everything in their path before they can blink at the enemies and they will get practically no XP from the kills because of the level difference between you and the mobs. That's how it works. If they want XP from those kills, they have to be grouped with similarly leveled characters. Without this, what would you say to that person? Too bad? If this is indeed a thing, they could group with their friend who could then downscale so they'd get XP.

 

I'd much prefer it be a toggle, myself, but there are benefits to adding it.

 

Question: I have played with characters a much higher level than my own. I have also played with friends with characters much lower than my own. I never noticed a difference in XP gain (nor my friends) with the lower level characters. I even tested this at one point and received the same amount of XP playing with a equal level partner as I did with a much higher level partner. Where is this lack of XP theory coming from?

 

Second of all, I have known lots of people through the years who wanted or needed to be carried through various content in various games for various reasons. Just like the downscaling should not be forced on people, I don't think grouping with a higher level character should be forced as well, but both should most certainly be an option and a choice of the players - not the developers.

[Jedi_riches]

I think down-scaling is exactly what this game needs. The amount of group content now accessible to players with this move is VAST.

 

For people complaining they can now nolonger Solo content, I feel for you, I too hate it when people takes things I enjoy away...but in this case I suggest you have lost sight of the fact this is an MMO, not a single player game.

 

I have not lost sight that this is a MMO, in my mind anyway the MMO elements are the Heroic missions, Flashpoints and Operations.

Now I do partake in the MMO bits for SM flashpoints (though never done HM flashpoints) and heroics even if I have made my mind up never to run another op ever again as I know I am out of my depth with them.

 

What I will find hard to take is if during MY personal phase I now struggle to defeat Tarnis for example because I can not longer be slightly overlevelled.

 

Question: I have played with characters a much higher level than my own. I have also played with friends with characters much lower than my own. I never noticed a difference in XP gain (nor my friends) with the lower level characters. I even tested this at one point and received the same amount of XP playing with a equal level partner as I did with a much higher level partner. Where is this lack of XP theory coming from?

 

Second of all, I have known lots of people through the years who wanted or needed to be carried through various content in various games for various reasons. Just like the downscaling should not be forced on people, I don't think grouping with a higher level character should be forced as well, but both should most certainly be an option and a choice of the players - not the developers.

 

If I recall correctly the XP loss occurs only on NPC kills not the xp given on quest turn in, since alot more xp is gained in this game because of kills than you think (serously run a stealth character and tell me you are not slightly lower levelled than if you play a class that has to fight his way through) you do have a overall xp loss.

 

Oh it also depends what the level difference is between the 2 characters, if its more than 7 or not.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Jedi_riches

[FlyinSpaghetti]

First, you only think of the Devs making every Op and FP irrelevant , then i'd say you have a big problem.

 

Well they would be if they carried on doing the same as they've been doing since launch, releasing an op or set of ops via an update/expansion that due to higher tier gear/level makes all the previous ones obsolete. All it does is bottleneck people into one or two ops at a time and due to this people get burnt out before the next set of ops get patched in.

 

Let's be realistic here, if this game was a massive success I'd expect nothing less than a new op or two every few months but it wasn't. It fell on it's butt and went F2P within a year of launch, they simply haven't got the resources to churn out content as fast as people can burn through it then moan there's nothing to do therefore they have to make the content they got last.