Please make level scaling optional in KotFE

[MisterBlackJack]

It's really a bunch of Bs, that should never ever happen in any MMO, it takes away any LOGICAL REASONING for LEVELING period. the Reason why there are Level systems in any MMO, which a good some of ppl here don't have the intelligence to Understand.

 

Is for some very good reasons 1) Being the fact that Major MMO's have Level systems in place is just For The Reason, so that ppl can be able to level to kill the same things that they won't be able to sometimes when they hit higher lvl NPCs on every Planet there is.

 

Reasoning for Gaining lvls Again is because every so that so and so levels can do More and more Flashpoints, which some ppl also don't understand. Another Big reason, and i guess the Main Devs have lost sense of Logic in this game. Is that We Have to gain Higher Levels so we can get more skills to take on Higher-End mobs on Said Planet ur on and Flaspoint or Op ppl will need all those 10's of Thousands of Hitpoints for to have a chance at achieving success.

 

This Stupid Re-scale, Dumbing down ppls Levels make most ppl feels Stupid and cheap. Makes most of us serious players, and i mean Serious minded ppl feel like dung. Cheapening our lvl successes then get a nice right-hook to the face, and Not being able to fend off everything there is, because if were 15-20 or more levels higher than those NPCs on the Planet we should NOT have to worry about kicking some serious arse if we Need to.

 

Dumbing down our levels also makes it Impossible to help others, when other Don't want to help ppl.

 

I wonder wth the Devs that want this JUNK are smoking. Facts Are Facts, ppl aren't gonna put up with such Bs, even if they don't implement it now, but later also ppl will and Are already Un-subbing by the dozens because this KOTFE, that is really a Low Budgeted SWTOR 2, because there hasn't Ever Been this Much Secrecy since the Creation of This Game in the Betas.

 

And Yes they do Owe us All a hell of a Lot more Information. Only a person that's in Beta or doesn't have much intelligence thinks otherwise.

 

At lvl 50-65, We sure as Hell Better be Walking around Like GODS. We Earned that right to crush most Opposition.

 

Sorry I don't see how reverse scaling makes it "impossible to help others". It gets rid of super cheesing the missions, but doesn't stop people from grouping up and doing missions, in fact it encourages people to group up. which this game needs more mechanics like this to do. Most of the heroics only require two people to do them so getting with 1 other person will not be hard.

 

2nd we are not complete Gods in this game but rather very skilled in our area of expertise. They always said they wanted the players to feel "heroic" and from the begining, being "heroic" to them is fighting your way through a large group of enemies barely getting out alive. You may not agree with their philosophy but that doesn't change the fact that their philosophy none the less and its there vision. As consumers we don't dictate what developers' vision is, but rather we dictate if the vision is worth our money. While many people here don't feel that way, there are many people in this same thread that do.

 

And as I said many times in this thread, you can easily still run past all these mobs to get to where you need to get even at the same level.

 

the only thing I agree with you is that we are owed the information, This should have been announced months ago that they were going to do this not at the last 2 weeks. However I have a strong sense that they will talk about this when they announce the "streamlining leveling" process, because I am almost certain this is what they meant.

 

Either way i don't believe your prediction of this being the death nail to the game. I feel this will have the opposite effect as now people will HAVE to do group content AS A Group.

 

Finally you may feel we don't have "the intelligence to understand", but it seems pretty clear that you fail to understand that bioware may want to put this for larger purpose. While they have not officially announce this, what they have said is that they want to set a system in place that no matter how many expansions they release they want all Group content to be made relevant. This is seems to be the answer to problem. You may not like it, but we should at least hear from them before we grab our torches and pitch forks and demand to burn them at the stake.

[Margorn]

Current situation: XP gains for low level players are severely reduced, and the content is laughably easy,

Right. The XP gained from defeated foes is lost.

But if this is only about the EXP: the time you need to run a single H2/H4/FP with an adequate level can be spent on running a FP twice or even more often.

EXP is defintately not an argument here.

 

so no actual fun from playing happens. It is therefore not really possible to group up with low level players

That's your perspective. Actually the more I think about it ... every person I met so far has only been after the quest reward - a piece of armor, mods or whatever ...

 

Mentoring system gets rid of this problem, usually by either scaling the mentor down or mentee up (in this case, it also scales mobs up). Mentee gains more XP than they would, and Mentors gain special rewards as well.

Great system ... for the minority who wants it.

 

In short, it removes penalty when high level player is grouped with low level player, but does not make the game too easy for the low player.

If it is to easy for you, move to a planet 3 or 4 levels above you and do the content there - all alone or with a friend. No mentoring system required.

[Jedi_riches]

Based on a thread I have just seen on reddit, there will be scaling involved whether optional or not I don't know but there is a guide on new rewards from heroics which alter depending on your level, if it did not scale you then I doubt it will allow you to accuire purple gear from Tython heroics.

 

Though how accurate the guide is I don't know as it currently has republic rewards showing against heroics on Dromund Kaas.

[LordTynell]

Forced group content always fails outside FPs and Raids. It's why WoW killed their group quests. Helping someone out with an objective on a lower planet should never punish you and your accomplishments in a game. I have never seen a request for mentoring on these forums. It should be optional. Not everyone wants to do it. If you take away choice, you take away a feature.. you're not adding anything.

 

Let's say that again - taking away anything is never adding anything.

 

Optional scaling is the only answer.

[Ainianu]

I agree with OP

I often enjoy just messing about solo and just 'see if i can...' heroic 4's, flashpoints etc.

At the moment the current 'solo' game is just far too easy, if they continue to level adjust the soloable content and such to this, it would be nice to add a hardmode and nightmare mode for players who actually want a challenge... and make sure those difficulty missions are actually damn challenging.

[DalrisThane]

Either way i don't believe your prediction of this being the death nail to the game. I feel this will have the opposite effect as now people will HAVE to do group content AS A Group.

 

You are totally right that no-one can predict the outcome.

 

I do believe that you are underestimate the negative emotional response to anything "have to", especially when it comes to entertainment. I'm an emotional person. Emotion >>> (not enough chevrons) logic for me. It's how I live my life. I don't think I'm alone considering the number of times "Hyperbole" or "Emotional" gets tossed on these boards... as if that was a bad thing... hehe...

 

I'll give you the anecdote of myself. I'll try and make it medium (I can't do short). I was dragged to this MMO by RL friends and family. I hate MMOs. I just wanted KOTOR 3. But they asked, so I followed. Now, they've all left. I'm now playing SWTOR as a single player game rental. Asperger's keeps me playing. Long(er) story.

 

Every single bit of SWTOR content that's "have to", especially "group", as you describe it, I'll pass. I used to do old Flashpoints solo, overlevelled... by a LOT because I'm a terrible player. If that's no longer an option, and ditto heroics / open world, I won't do those either.

 

There's no carrot or stick that can get me back into grouping. I'd tell you details, but then someone (not you MisterBlackJack) will say again they don't believe me, so there's no point. Last time it happened, I let my French temper go wild in my replies. I got a little 6 month "vacation" away from SWTOR. To that other (those other) poster... believe what you will.

 

In simple: I won't group. If (fake emotional hyperbolic example) the only way to get levels were to group, I would stay the level I am. Others might group, but if they hate it, they'll likely consciously or unconsciously pass on that misery to whomever they group with. And, from your standpoint, I can't imagine it being pleasant to group with a person that hates that part of the game and feels "forced" to do so...

 

Am I in the minority? Don't know. Maybe all the single player "KOTOR 3" hangers on left with initial exodus. Who knows? But I do think that some of those that post here, are very concerned that, well, if this is the new direction, they'll leave. And I assume they don't want to leave, hence, they hope the game doesn't go the scaling way, or it gets reversed within a development cycle...

Edited September 22, 2015 by DalrisThane

[MisterBlackJack]

Forced group content always fails outside FPs and Raids. It's why WoW killed their group quests. Helping someone out with an objective on a lower planet should never punish you and your accomplishments in a game. I have never seen a request for mentoring on these forums. It should be optional. Not everyone wants to do it. If you take away choice, you take away a feature.. you're not adding anything.

 

Let's say that again - taking away anything is never adding anything.

 

Optional scaling is the only answer.

 

Optional scaling is like the Tree specs prior to 3.0, it's simply an illusion to Options. having an option will simply mean no one will ever turn the scaling on because it gives them an INCREDIBLY UNFAIR advantage over those who do have it. Especially when it comes to people trying to group for world bosses. Any other situation I am all for option, this case it will make it FAR WORSE or make the scaling completely useless

[MisterBlackJack]

You are totally right that no-one can predict the outcome.

 

I do believe that you are underestimate the negative emotional response to anything "have to", especially when it comes to entertainment. I'm an emotional person. Emotion >>> (not enough chevrons) logic for me. It's how I live my life. I don't think I'm alone considering the number of times "Hyperbole" or "Emotional" gets tossed on these boards... as if that was a bad thing... hehe...

 

I'll give you the anecdote of myself. I'll try and make it medium (I can't do short). I was dragged to this MMO by RL friends and family. I hate MMOs. I just wanted KOTOR 3. But they asked, so I followed. Now, they've all left. I'm now playing SWTOR as a single player game rental. Asperger's keeps me playing. Long(er) story.

 

Every single bit of SWTOR content that's "have to", especially "group", as you describe it, I'll pass. I used to do old Flashpoints solo, overlevelled... by a LOT because I'm a terrible player. If that's no longer an option, and ditto heroics / open world, I won't do those either.

 

There's no carrot or stick that can get me back into grouping. I'd tell you details, but then someone (not you MisterBlackJack) will say again they don't believe me, so there's no point. Last time it happened, I let my French temper go wild in my replies. I got a little 6 month "vacation" away from SWTOR. To that other (those other) poster... believe what you will.

 

In simple: I won't group. If (fake emotional hyperbolic example) the only way to get levels were to group, I would stay the level I am. Others might group, but if they hate it, they'll likely consciously or unconsciously pass on that misery to whomever they group with. And, from your standpoint, I can't imagine it being pleasant to group with a person that hates that part of the game and feels "forced" to do so...

 

Am I in the minority? Don't know. Maybe all the single player "KOTOR 3" hangers on left with initial exodus. Who knows? But I do think that some of those that post here, are very concerned that, well, if this is the new direction, they'll leave. And I assume they don't want to leave, hence, they hope the game doesn't go the scaling way, or it gets reversed within a development cycle...

 

I read your comment and I can understand someone coming from your perspective and I appreciate you opening up with your honesty. I guess from my perspective, I understand that there are people who want KOTOR 3, just like I understand there are people who want swtor to be SWG. Like you with single player campaigns, they enjoy the idea of open world and free roaming environments where you make something out for yourself in a large sandbox.

 

However just like I have said to those asking for SWG, i will say it to you that, respectfully, we have to come to terms that the game may not be designed for how you would like. SWG was a sandbox, SWTOR is a themepark, it was always designed with the idea of being a Story Driven Theme Park MMO in a Star Wars Universe. Trying to force square shape into a circle doesn't change the fact that it's still a square shape.

 

Now for your case, you have more leeway then the sandbox crowd, because there are ALOT, and I DO MEAN ALOT of single player aspects coming in 4.0 (some not even announced yet ). So there will still be a wide variety of options to do. And honestly even with the scaling the only thing you will be missing out is the group content. But this still comes back to my main point. while there are alot of single player aspects to this game, this is still an MMO, there needs to be group content that require GROUP WORK, not just optional but REQUIRED. especially with no new higher endgame coming in 4.0 (though my guess is we will see some in 4.1). Either way the game is suppose to be played with people.

 

Now to your point, would I want someone in my group who doesn't enjoy playing with groups. No i want you to play the game in areas you enjoy, however I have no problem helping people out when it comes to group content, old or new. I enjoy helping people that have trouble getting past certain missions and getting a sense of accomplishment, but that only can happen if there is NO option. We can't have swtor turn completely into a SPRPG because then it looses it's purpose, There needs to be group content that requires group work in order for the content to continue to be relevant.

 

TDLR: I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your thoughts on the subject, but we need to remember this is still TOR the MMO not KOTOR 3 the Single player RPG.

[keimox]

Usually when lower level player asks help from higher level player, they want high lever player faceroll everything for them and get few items from bosses.

[Ralmuski]

So why do we still level exactly then?

[MisterBlackJack]

So why do we still level exactly then?

 

to get to the end or endgame? I know radical crazy idea

Edited September 22, 2015 by MisterBlackJack

[MisterBlackJack]

Usually when lower level player asks help from higher level player, they want high lever player faceroll everything for them and get few items from bosses.

 

Not really. I know several people (myself included) that ask for help because they can't complete it, not that they want it to be facerolled.

[branmakmuffin]

So why do we still level exactly then?

Can't do SM Ops until 50, can't do HM or NiM Ops until 65, can't do HM FPs until 65.

[Azareya]

The only good thing that might come out of this is to stop the amount of bots that I see in Heroics farming?

 

Other than that this is probably the dumbest thing bioware has come up with yet, and with the new item rewards from heroics that has been leaked (meaning you can't get ANY old orange gear from heroics once Kotfe hits, so they screwed over that part) few people will actually care about running them unless they're forced to do them, which I guess we will be somehow for their rewards.

 

Look at section X heroic 4, or any heroic that is gated by mechanics, no one, absolutely no one runs it, Section X on my Server barely has 2-3 people max at prime time.

 

And with this change they're even screwing over the lower pop servers.

 

Even WoW lets you solo old content, even raids (did they change that?) and that was a big part of the fun for me, and so is in this game.

 

The thing is once the game moves on and adds newer ****, older content should be made more accessible not less, because very few people will run them, like the dailies in black hole, section X, the macro and seeker heroics, but since bioware isn't adding anything new they're just recycling old content, and screwing over those who have fun running them.

 

TL;DR HORRIBLE change.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Azareya

[Margorn]

TDLR: I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your thoughts on the subject, but we need to remember this is still TOR the MMO not KOTOR 3 the Single player RPG.

 

I would not even dare to call swtor an MMORPG. It's an ORPG, not more not less.

And now they are taking away companion gear and probably the actual benefits of the leveling process it is going to become an OG.

[Jedi_riches]

Other than that this is probably the dumbest thing bioware has come up with yet, and with the new item rewards from heroics that has been leaked (meaning you can't get ANY old orange gear from heroics once Kotfe hits, so they screwed over that part) few people will actually care about running them unless they're forced to do them, which I guess we will be somehow for their rewards.

 

Is there anything really worth getting from the heroics anyway (lookwise almost everything seems to have a "comms" equivilent anyway meaning you can still get a lot of that stuff from venders anyway)

[Margorn]

Look at section X heroic 4, or any heroic that is gated by mechanics, no one, absolutely no one runs it, Section X on my Server barely has 2-3 people max at prime time.

Even with 50+ ppl in SecX it is hard to find a person willing to run the H4 with you. Unless you tell that the ini is clear and they only have to press buttons.

 

And this is a daily area. I mean how hard is it to find anyone for the actual planetary heroics. I would like to complete my quests and move forward. What reason does one have to go 2 or 3 or 4 planets behind and run heroics - unless a friend need help? Gear maybe - but that's it for me. And especially then I don't see any reason for a challenge ...

[Margorn]

Is there anything really worth getting from the heroics anyway (lookwise almost everything seems to have a "comms" equivilent anyway meaning you can still get a lot of that stuff from venders anyway)

Well, I run old heroics or FPs obtain certain items or to dress my companions.

 

But I do remember times when my Trooper ran the Ord Mantell heroics for comms ... day afer day after day after ...

 

btw: any information about the daliy areas in the expac? (Black Hole, Illum, Ziost, ...)

Edited September 22, 2015 by Margorn

[branmakmuffin]

Other than that this is probably the dumbest thing bioware has come up with yet, and with the new item rewards from heroics that has been leaked (meaning you can't get ANY old orange gear from heroics once Kotfe hits, so they screwed over that part) few people will actually care about running them unless they're forced to do them, which I guess we will be somehow for their rewards.

It's always a good laugh when someone uses the word "forced" in connection with playing a game.

[Rhyltran]

It's always a good laugh when someone uses the word "forced" in connection with playing a game.

 

Only if you take it by it's absolute most literal connotations which no one is asking or expecting you to do. If I design a game and create an area you must go through in order to see other parts of the game then you are forced to do this area if you want to continue unless you intend on not playing the game. When people speak of forcing to do something that is exactly what they mean. So if you enjoy the game and want to continue playing then you're forced to do whatever it is.

 

So the person you quoted said "People won't do ___ unless they're forced to." this means "People won't do ____ unless the game is designed in a way that they will have to do it if they want to continue playing." which is the same as saying "I won't be doing ____ willingly and I don't think many people will either."

Edited September 22, 2015 by Rhyltran

[SelinaH]

Personally, I would appreciate a mentoring system that allows me to help out lower-level characters without rendering them pointless. But I never asked for mandatory downscaling for open world content.

 

I like options.

[branmakmuffin]

Only if you take it by it's absolute most literal connotations which no one is asking or expecting you to do. If I design a game and create an area you must go through in order to see other parts of the game then you are forced to do this area if you want to continue unless you intend on not playing the game.

There ya go. Since the entire game is optional, everything in the game is optional.

 

I have an alt I want to get the Aratech Ice for. To get it requires doing most of the level 50 HM FPs, so I am doing them (obviously no big deal aside from time for a level 60 character). In no way am I forced to do them and using that word would be entirely melodramatic. People do like to characterize their game play as something they simply must do. They think it's cool, I guess, to imply that they are playing a game because they have to and not because they simply want to.

[Rhyltran]

There ya go. Since the entire game is optional, everything in the game is optional.

 

I have an alt I want to get the Aratech Ice for. To get it requires doing most of the level 50 HM FPs, so I am doing them (obviously no big deal aside from time for a level 60 character). In no way am I forced to do them and using that word would be entirely melodramatic. People do like to characterize their game play as something they simply must do. They think it's cool, I guess, to imply that they are playing a game because they have to and not because they simply want to.

 

You ignored my point. You claimed his use of force was laughable. Except he never claimed he was forced to use the feature. He claimed he'd only use the feature if he was forced to. Ergo he's stating "Short of somehow making me do it I won't do it." There's nothing wrong with this statement. He didn't claim he was forced. Was merely stating it won't be used.

 

He didn't use it in the manner you're stating so what are you going on about? I'm genuinely confused.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Rhyltran

[branmakmuffin]

You ignored my point. You claimed his use of force was laughable. Except he never claimed he was forced to use the feature. He claimed he'd only use the feature if he was forced to. Ergo he's stating "Short of somehow making me do it I won't do it." There's nothing wrong with this statement. He didn't claim he was forced. Was merely stating it won't be used

And at no point will he be made to do it because it's his choice to begin with to even play the game. Saying "I'll never do this thing is a game unless I am forced to do it" is the same as saying "I will never do this thing in a game."

[vilchisss]

Is this confirmed?

 

I frankly hate this idea, not because i'm a hardcore soloer or hardcore grouper, but because i play in a server that is practically dead after a certain hour so i can't imagine myself wanting to get some random gear piece, from an heroic in nar shadaa and having to spend 1 hour looking for a group to do said heroic even if i am originally a lvl 65. Also, if they do this, means that they have so much faith in KoTFE that they think it's going to attract a lot of people but i certainly doubt it, shadow of revan was supossed to do that and look now...

 

It's just that.

Edited September 22, 2015 by vilchisss