CestrovPails Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 also is the wrath higher than Darth Nox rank wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Rank wise, the wrath is higher. As far as who is the most powerful, there have been several threads on this. In a 1v1 duel using just lightsabers, the wrath would win. But if Nox used his or her force powers, augmented by the power of the ghosts they have bound to them, they could easily defeat the Wrath if they were caught off guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudeinFlames Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The Wrath doesn't outrank Nox, and neither of them is easily killing the other in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The Wrath doesn't outrank Nox, and neither of them is easily killing the other in any way. Well said; however, I do think as the Emperor's executioner that the Wrath would outrank Nox slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrogai Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Achuta! Darth nox outranks the empires wrath greatly, but the Wrath does still have autority, just no as much. The only thing the wrath has to lay on is being the emperors wrath, if that somehow dissapears he's pretty much non existant when it comes to influence. When it comes to one to one combat the wrath will most likely win. Darth nox (I'm going by the dark side one since that once is the cannon one) is a schemer and planer, not a direct figther. If nox get's preperation time it might be a different story. Mee jewz ku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Well said; however, I do think as the Emperor's executioner that the Wrath would outrank Nox slightly. the dark council flat out says they dont awnser to the wrath and all the ahtority the wrath has is from the now disowned lord vitiate and what mar gave you after shadow of revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRickson Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Power wise it is debatable, I would say the wrath is better with a light saver but Nox is better with the force. Rank wise Darth Nox is higher. As of shadow of revan the wrath is no longer the emperors wrath but a pawn for Darth marr and he/she also posess no political power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Well this is just my opinion but I'd think it would be a solid 50/50 situation. The only thing I might say is that the Wrath might have a slight advantage in a 1 vs 1 because most of the 1 vs 1 fights have much more swordplay in them than force contests, though again this depends on how close their saber skill and force skill is in comparison to their opponent. If there is a large enough gap in force power it can allow one opponent to dominate the other through raw force (such as Maul vs Sidious) or simply speed blitz (like Mace and team vs Sidious). However if the gap isn't that great or is negligible then it is almost always settled by lightsaber combat (for example Yoda vs Sidious). It also depends on the environment and starting distance which also makes this harder to decide because it isn't specified in OP (actually could OP do this please?) but in simple comparison I think that it would be 50/50 with maybe the Wrath winning a bit more often as while Nox is certainly the better force user in terms of raw power and variety, the Wrath is no slouch being able to choke two people to death before a Jedi could even react and, while this is an assumption on my part (a reasonable one though), probably has a greater mastery of force valor definitely giving him an edge in strength and possibly an edge in speed too. However saying this Nox probably wouldn't get stomped instantly in a saber fight but, in my opinion, would be comfortably beaten by the Wrath considering we don't even know if Nox mastered any form when we know the Wrath is a duelist primarily and has knowledge in numerous forms, likely mastering one or two. To be honest I don't know why people do match ups including the Wrath and Nox because they are pretty much equals and Bioware will likely NEVER give a definitive answer to which is better due to the possible backlash of answering. But yeah, on topic, I think it is a 50/50 situation. As far as authority goes I'll do a pre SOR assessment as I'm not fully up to date empire side (sorry): Pre-SOR Either equals or the Wrath has more authority. I think this because both have immense power backing them up, Nox having the fleet with the Silencer weapon, a cult on Nar Shadarr and everyone in the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge however the Wrath is the Emperor's personal executioner meaning that the Wrath, while not protected by him, still has the power of the Emperor and the authority the position grants which is a lot when you consider that it basically means if he thinks something is a threat to the Empire he can do as he sees fit so long as it doesn't hurt the Empire. Add to this that the entire Dark Council bowed to him and basically said "as long as it doesn't hurt us we won't object" I'd say that's quite a good bit of authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VitalityPrime Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Darth Nox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The wrath influence wise was never at Nox's level. It is flat out stated as much that DK > Wrath, both pre-SOR and post-SOR Powerwise is impossible to really say, the real question is whether the Wrath is able to resist Nox's rituals long enough to get in saber range. Considering how easily Nox resists Thanaton's powers and then blasts through his defenses, a master at rituals. I'm thinking wrath would have to launch an ambush to have a decent chance, otherwise Nox will just bring too much power to bear that the Wrath just doesn't have the experience to defend against. However since BW is never going to tell us this information, it's merely speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Darth nox (I'm going by the dark side one since that once is the cannon one) It's actually not. Bioware has specifically stated that they are not establishing a canon version of playable characters so the improtance of your choices is not diminished. They may do that eventually for certain characters they decide to reuse in their future games when SWTOR is no longer a thing (like they did with Revan and Exile), but until then pretty much everything is canon. As for Wrath's official rank in the Empire - at this point he's just a regular Sith Lord. An extremely powerful and respected one who has an ally in the Dark Council, yes, but still just a Lord. Not even a Darth. Definitely not a match for Nox/Imperius/Occlus who is now one of the true rulers of the Empire since there's no more Emperor above him. Edited September 15, 2015 by Trollokdamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The wrath influence wise was never at Nox's level. It is flat out stated as much that DK > Wrath, both pre-SOR and post-SOR As far as post-SOR goes I agree, but I think that the Wrath has equal authority, if not more authority, than Nox pre-SOR. My reasoning for this is because while Marr says (on behalf of the council) that the Wrath can do as he pleases so long as it doesn't disrupt or anger them, Vowrawn outright says that the Wrath is only answerable to the Emperor himself and has free reign. This pretty much confirms that the Wrath has at least as much influence as Nox considering that (going by Marr's words) a majority of the council has to agree to even challenge the Wrath's actions and even then he only has to answer to the Emperor. Powerwise is impossible to really say, the real question is whether the Wrath is able to resist Nox's rituals long enough to get in saber range. Considering how easily Nox resists Thanaton's powers and then blasts through his defenses, a master at rituals. I'm thinking wrath would have to launch an ambush to have a decent chance, otherwise Nox will just bring too much power to bear that the Wrath just doesn't have the experience to defend against. However since BW is never going to tell us this information, it's merely speculation. I'm going to reply to this if you don't mind but I just want to ask, when you say rituals do you just mean Nox's force powers that he can use in combat or are you talking about proper rituals that take time to set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrogai Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's actually not. Bioware has specifically stated that they are not establishing a canon version of playable characters so the improtance of your choices is not diminished. They may do that eventually for certain characters they decide to reuse in their future games when SWTOR is no longer a thing (like they did with Revan and Exile), but until then pretty much everything is canon. As for Wrath's official rank in the Empire - at this point he's just a regular Sith Lord. An extremely powerful and respected one who has an ally in the Dark Council, yes, but still just a Lord. Not even a Darth. Definitely not a match for Nox/Imperius/Occlus who is now one of the true rulers of the Empire since there's no more Emperor above him. Achuta! Well to be fair, the title says Darth nox not Darth Imperius. I'd still say that Emperors wrath takes this rather easily. When the wrath killed Baras, no one dared to stand in his/her way at all. When Nox killed Thanaton there were a couple of sith lords that didnt really like the Idea of having a lord on the throne, thus somewhat oposing nox. But influence wise we can already eliminate the wrath. The emperor has turned against his own people, while he still favours the wrath he wants him dead aswell. Mee jewz ku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 As far as post-SOR goes I agree, but I think that the Wrath has equal authority, if not more authority, than Nox pre-SOR. My reasoning for this is because while Marr says (on behalf of the council) that the Wrath can do as he pleases so long as it doesn't disrupt or anger them, Vowrawn outright says that the Wrath is only answerable to the Emperor himself and has free reign. This pretty much confirms that the Wrath has at least as much influence as Nox considering that (going by Marr's words) a majority of the council has to agree to even challenge the Wrath's actions and even then he only has to answer to the Emperor. To be honest the same thing can be said about SI. When he ascends to the Dark Council member position, Marr tells him: "With us, you are ruler of all the Sith, answerable only to the Emperor himself." But SI is more than just that. He is a head of the pyramid of ancient knowledge, which means he has countless disciples and followers working for him. He has a group of Moffs answering directly to him. And last but not least, he has a say in forging the political course of the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) To be honest the same thing can be said about SI. When he ascends to the Dark Council member position, Marr tells him: "With us, you are ruler of all the Sith, answerable only to the Emperor himself." But SI is more than just that. He is a head of the pyramid of ancient knowledge, which means he has countless disciples and followers working for him. He has a group of Moffs answering directly to him. And last but not least, he has a say in forging the political course of the Empire. To be honest I think the difference between Nox and the Wrath isn't what level of influence they hold its that they hold two different things; authority and influence. In terms of authority, pre-SOR, the Wrath probably has higher authority as he is basically the Emperor's executioner and as the Council say, has free reign and is only answerable to Emperor, perhaps the best way to say it is that while the Wrath has influence, it is that of another persons. Meanwhile Nox while certainly having authority, though less than the Wrath imo, probably has more influence due to all the things in your post. The only thing I would say about Nox's position on the Council is that by the way Marr said that to Nox in comparison to how he said it to the Wrath, is that it seemed like Marr was more comfortable/confident when saying it to Nox whereas he didn't seem to want to cross the Wrath, though this could just be my interpretation. Going a bit off topic here, but I don't really understand why 1 vs 1 threads with the Wrath and Nox are made because we don't have much to go on. Also, and this is really off topic, which do you recommend doing first the Consular or Inquisitor? I've enjoyed both so far, leaning towards Consular so I might do Inquisitor first and save the best for last. Edited September 15, 2015 by PadsterPwns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcgtqu Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Personally, I think Darth Nox is more powerful than Wrath, both Force and powerbase wise. Force - Nox is already a powerful force user by his own right and has the aid of bound force ghosts and assortment of Sith sorceries and rituals, whereas Wrath is just an excellent duelist with above the average force power. Powerbase - This is what really puts Nox leagues above Wrath. Nox is a Dark council member with major political influence in the Empire. Nox also has the command of an entire imperial fleet as well as the whole Imperial Reclaimation Service. Wrath has very little powerbase of actually political influence within the Empire and even less after the betrayal of Vitiate. Warth has been reduced to a pawn of Darth Marr by the end of SoR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Personally, I think Darth Nox is more powerful than Wrath, both Force and powerbase wise. Force - Nox is already a powerful force user by his own right and has the aid of bound force ghosts and assortment of Sith sorceries and rituals, whereas Wrath is just an excellent duelist with above the average force power. Powerbase - This is what really puts Nox leagues above Wrath. Nox is a Dark council member with major political influence in the Empire. Nox also has the command of an entire imperial fleet as well as the whole Imperial Reclaimation Service. Wrath has very little powerbase of actually political influence within the Empire and even less after the betrayal of Vitiate. Warth has been reduced to a pawn of Darth Marr by the end of SoR. Incorrect. The most powerful duelists are just as powerful as the most powerful force users. A duelist uses the force to enhance his body, strength, speed, reflexes, and insight. They spend their entire lives to boost these traits as far as they can. It's no weaker in the star wars universe nor stronger than someone who practices and uses almost strictly esoteric abilities. The most powerful duelists come across in the star wars continuity as being so quick they're almost impossible to see (and sometimes even impossible to see) have such high force defenses that it takes quite an amount of effort to breach their defenses when they steel themselves, and more. Claiming otherwise is to claim that Nox can beat anyone in star wars history that is a duelist. We know Nox isn't stronger than every "duelist" in star wars history. If you concede that he/she isn't powerful or capable of defeating every duelist in star wars history then you have to concede to the fact that just because he knows esoteric abilities doesn't mean he'll just beat Wrath or the Jedi Knight. Nox, for instance, would not be able to take down Windu or Yoda. While skill matters to a degree there's a point where force users can simply crush other force users. The wrath isn't able to smack down other Darths just from skill. No, he's told numerous times that he's by far the strongest Sith __ had ever met. The Wrath is incredibly powerful in the force. In star wars how powerful you are in the force usually determines what kind of opponents you can bring down. Luck and Skill only play a part of it with luck playing the least part. Edited September 16, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcgtqu Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Incorrect. The most powerful duelists are just as powerful as the most powerful force users. A duelist uses the force to enhance his body, strength, speed, reflexes, and insight. They spend their entire lives to boost these traits as far as they can. It's no weaker in the star wars universe nor stronger than someone who practices and uses almost strictly esoteric abilities. The most powerful duelists come across in the star wars continuity as being so quick they're almost impossible to see (and sometimes even impossible to see) have such high force defenses that it takes quite an amount of effort to breach their defenses when they steel themselves, and more. Claiming otherwise is to claim that Nox can beat anyone in star wars history that is a duelist. We know Nox isn't stronger than every "duelist" in star wars history. If you concede that he/she isn't powerful or capable of defeating every duelist in star wars history then you have to concede to the fact that just because he knows esoteric abilities doesn't mean he'll just beat Wrath or the Jedi Knight. Nox, for instance, would not be able to take down Windu or Yoda. While skill matters to a degree there's a point where force users can simply crush other force users. The wrath isn't able to smack down other Darths just from skill. No, he's told numerous times that he's by far the strongest Sith __ had ever met. The Wrath is incredibly powerful in the force. In star wars how powerful you are in the force usually determines what kind of opponents you can bring down. Luck and Skill only play a part of it with luck playing the least part. Like I've said, it is just my opinion I think Darth Nox is stronger than Wrath. You mentioned about using force to augment combat skill as if you think Darth Nox is incapable of doing it. He (Nox) could've used Sith sorcery to augment his combating skills even to that of greater than Wrath. Wrath's enemies said that Wrath is the strongest Sith they have ever met because they have never met Nox. However, if you really want to be academic about it - bioware has the final say in this matter and before bioware comes out and state which is stronger, what we are discussing here is just claims and opinions. Therefore, I stand by my previous post. Edited September 16, 2015 by tcgtqu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Like I've said, it is just my opinion I think Darth Nox is stronger than Wrath. You mentioned about using force to augment combat skill as if you think Darth Nox is incapable of doing it. He (Nox) could've used Sith sorcery to augment his combating skills even to that of greater than Wrath. Wrath's enemies said that Wrath is the strongest Sith they have ever met because they have never met Nox. However, if you really want to be academic about it - bioware has the final say in this matter and before bioware comes out and state which is stronger, what we are discussing here is just claims and opinions. Therefore, I stand by my previous post. Sorcery doesn't augment physical abilities. Could he use the force to augment his abilities? Sure but not on the level of the Warrior. It wasn't his sole focus like the warriors. You can specialize and not all Jedi/Sith are equal in all areas. Take Corran Horn. Was he a weak force user because he was bad at Telekinesis? No. His Tutaminis was impressive and so was his ability to use/create illusions but he still struggled to lift a boulder. You're entitled to your opinion but my statement is that Sorcery isn't greater than "Physical perfection." If you claim he wins just because he has sorcery then you're arguing he'd beat Windu for not knowing sorcery. As mentioned, Nox is not on Windu's level. Is the wrath? Most likely not but my contention is that just because someone specializes in esoteric force abilities doesn't mean they automatically win because another forces on physical perfection. Plus Wrath isn't entirely devoid of sorcery knowledge either. In game the wrath can use dark side blasts of pure force. This has been regarded as sorcery. Kun was able to do the same thing with the use of his gauntlets that had a talisman infused in the hand. Wrath can do them on his own. A testament to his power and knowledge of the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thepyrethatburns Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) This conversation says it all. http://imgur.com/gallery/sm6rT On paper, it should go to the woman who can fly, fire energy beams and, if it came to close range, can bench tons vs the runt with the healing factor and his hand knives. In reality (barring that he's currently dead), we know exactly how the fight would go. Same here. On paper, Nox. In reality, Baras demonstrated a number of sorcerer abilities and he still lost. Having the ability to project lightning does not equal an instant win in the Star Wars universe. He also had a much bigger powerbase than one renegade apprentice throughout the game. In the end, Darth Fatty still lost. As such, I'm inclined to say equal odds with a preference for the Wrath. Edited September 16, 2015 by Thepyrethatburns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I just had a thought, while Nox will obviously pose a challenge due to his force power, the Wrath went up against Baras who IS a Sorcerer and beat him. Why this is so impressive and why does it suggest he should be capable of beating Nox? Right before the duel started and even as the duel commenced Baras was convincing the Dark Council that he was the Voice of the Emperor, but surely that wouldn't work because the Voice is more powerful? However that's the thing, it was working. When the Wrath entered the Dark Council chamber we see and hear Baras's plea to the Council and they are either in a position of not being sure about it or, like Ravage, they outright believe he is the Voice. This means that Baras had to have been incredibly powerful at the time, considering that no one in the room except the Wrath would challenge him, add to this the evidence of Baras being empowered by a Sith spirit and I think it's safe to say that by the end of chapter 3 Baras was at least as powerful, if not far more powerful than Nox as of pre-SOR and likely post-SOR. Saying this however, my opinion still remains as either a 50/50 split or a slight edge to the Wrath. Edited September 16, 2015 by PadsterPwns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmors Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I think the Empire's Wrath would win in a duel while Darth Nox has a bigger powerbase and more influence. With the ghosts and the enhancements he/she got, Nox would be close to the Wrath in power/strength though. The Empire's Wrath may not have a powerbase, he/she does have a powerful reputation/title that would demand respect and get people of the Empire to listen to him/her. Edited September 18, 2015 by Philmors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I think the Empire's Wrath would win in a duel while Darth Nox has a bigger powerbase and more influence. With the ghosts and the enhancements he/she got, Nox would be close to the Wrath in power/strength though. The Empire's Wrath may not have a powerbase, he/she does have a powerful reputation/title that would demand respect and get people of the Empire to listen to him/her. Nox has the same thing. It's called being a Dark Council member. You don't get there by being weak and not getting some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Hmm. I'd say the Wrath takes the cake in an impromptu challenge, while the SI would have an edge if given time to set up all his rituals. But unless they both wish to become Emperor there's really no reason for them to fight. The Wrath doesn't care that much about dusty relics and sitting in meetings so he doesn't covet the Inquisitor's position. And the SI has other ways of doing things than just walking in and taking command (even if he can) - he doesn't need or want the title of Wrath. Besides, as long as Marr lives he's got a lot more influence than the SI so there's not much chance to manuever for becoming the new Emperor anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 In the current game, ranks mean nearly nothing. Emperor's wrath has no emperor anymore. So what is he? Just wrath? Ex -Emperor's wrath? We don't know what happens to the Dark Council but lets assumed something happens to the Empire when KotFE happens. If everyone is reduced to the outlander, everyone is on equal footing, including Nox since I'm assuming there is no more Dark Council or one that is reduced to nothing. Power wise: Nox would win 10/10 times because what Sith wouldn't use all that power to defeat someone. Wrath might the Emperor's special snowflake, but Nox has power that is increasing with each chapter (force ghosts, life extension out of Rishi, and is probably the biggest threat to Vitiate) My dark side inquisitors...who wouldn't want to nomnomnom Vitiate's ghost? Those saying "if they lightsaber dueled" they wouldn't, Nox would just destroy Wrath without even lifting his lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts