Nico Okarr's Coat - What a disappointment

[Reno_Tarshil]

Wrong

 

Try looking at the back of the Troublemaker's Duster with a different lighter color. It's the same thing.

 

First, the entire game is "fluff." Second, part of what you get for your sub fee during the relevant time period includes the Nico swag. You don't have the option to not get it. It's a price reduction given in (virtual) goods. We can establish a value of Nico's duster. What does a Troublemaker coat go for? 1 million creds? Goods from the CC seem to sell for roughly 1000 creds per CC. So using that formula (inaccurate though it may be), Nico's duster is worth 1000 CC, which is about $10. So that means during the month we subscribed to get Nico's duster, the price of our sub was reduced by $10. But just like we don't have the option to say during the "buy one, get one free" sale to say "Just give me the free one," we didn't have the option to say "OK, keep the duster and knock $10 off my sub fee for the month."

 

Of course we can debate the actual numbers all day (and some will say Nico's duster is worth nothing at all as far as they are concerned), but that is the way the concept works.

 

I think you need new glasses or something. Nico's coat and the Troublemaker duster are pretty much the same. Just a different color.

 

You are correct in that you do not have the option to not get it and still be a subscriber but at the same time, you arn't going to be required to use the free rewards being granted to you in order to play the game (expansion aside since you need that to play the new content).

 

I personally do not see any price value in the subscriber rewards, they are nice cosmetic stuff but as I've said before I pay a sub fee to enjoy unhindered access to the game and forums. So the 30 dollars I pay every two months with a time card is irrelevant to whether or not the value of free fluff takes away from the amount paid for a subscription free in exchange for said freebies.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm not the same person I used to be who had no problem discussing stuff like this over and over (because I have stuff I'd like to do with my time other than this) so I'm going to be dropping out of the discussion of whether something is free or not. If you have further questions or comments take it to pm with me.

 

Back to the duster color issue then.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil

[EnkiduNineEight]

You owe me an extra 5 pounds for the enhanced argument experience.

 

No, it's free, we were already arguing, and so any additional bit in our argument is a bonus.

[EnkiduNineEight]

http://i.imgur.com/RE8IS3e.jpg

 

So, here, combined images.

 

There are significant differences and they are quite obvious in side by side comparison. They are different enough that in fashion they could be considered separate designs though all share many traits.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Recap time: The chest in the promotional art was updated within two weeks to match the ingame chest we've now seen a picture of so that matches. Finally, could you show me where you got the picture of the back of Nico's Duster because, again, I could have swore the screenshot only showed the front. I must have missed the one that showed the back.

 

the back picture is from the KOTFE main page in which you quoted. The "Updated" picture of Niko is art froma coin card which has been around for a long while.

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81JZoD3asrL._SX425_.jpg

[EnkiduNineEight]

Recap time: The chest in the promotional art was updated within two weeks to match the ingame chest we've now seen a picture of so that matches. Finally, could you show me where you got the picture of the back of Nico's Duster because, again, I could have swore the screenshot only showed the front. I must have missed the one that showed the back.

 

http://www.swtor.com/

 

Click on the second 'banner' dot, or just wait for it to cycle, you'll get the larger image.

 

OR

 

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-203

 

I've posted this link multiple times.

 

OR:

 

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/fallenempire/bothawui/screens/duster-thumb.jpg

 

Which Both Bran and I have posted multiple times.

 

And, just incase anyones missed it, in the long run I really have very little cares. I don't have a horse in this race. I could care less for myself, I already paid for the sub, and did it well before I knew there were going to be incentives, and I don't really want/need the incentives they are offering (though I'll take em because they are free.. FREE *giggle*)

 

I am though willing to see the point of the people who are a bit put out by the actions of BioWare in this instance, and willing to help make their arguments because I think they were being unfairly pooh-poohed by the usual suspects.

Edited September 12, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Reno_Tarshil]

http://i.imgur.com/RE8IS3e.jpg

 

So, here, combined images.

 

There are significant differences and they are quite obvious in side by side comparison. They are different enough that in fashion they could be considered separate designs though all share many traits.

 

They are the same since you are comparing in-game models with artwork. the 3-D Models have been adjusted to fit the characters better compared to the styled smoothness of the artwork. The biggest example of this is the shoulderpads, they are the same only adjusted for 3-D Modeling.

[Belegnole]

lol, the original images showed a duster with a cape not shoulder pads.

[EnkiduNineEight]

They are the same since you are comparing in-game models with artwork. the 3-D Models have been adjusted to fit the characters better compared to the styled smoothness of the artwork. The biggest example of this is the shoulderpads, they are the same only adjusted for 3-D Modeling.

 

No, they are not the same. We already know that with the 3d modeling that there is no need to conform to the outline of the base human figure/form as presented by the 4 options for each gender in game. For example, look at the _multitudes_ of armour types available for each class.

 

The Troublemakers set conforms to the figure, Nico's duster does not conform to the figure of the shoulders. Nico's central shoulder protection extends further down the back and does not have the separate back plate below it.

 

You can insist that they are the same all you want, but its very clear they are NOT the same and that the central image could be modeled in game as we have numerous examples of worn items/exquipment that have all sorts of projections that do not conform to the basic figures.

 

Using the troublemaker set (again) and slapping the label on it 'Nico's Duster' does not make it the same as what is pictured in promotional material. It is _similar_ but the differences are significant enough that it has to separate aesthetic qualities.

 

People may want the more significant and arched shoulders. People may want the central shoulder portion to extend further down and to not have the additional spinal plate. People may like the less embellished version of the Duster seen in the central image and not the more embellished image of the Troublemakers coat.

 

They are _similar_ but not the same and the differences are significant enough for people to have expected something other than the Troublemakers set re-coloured when they 'purchased' Nico's Duster.

Edited September 12, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Krimlord]

Recap time: The chest in the promotional art was updated within two weeks to match the ingame chest we've now seen a picture of so that matches. Finally, could you show me where you got the picture of the back of Nico's Duster because, again, I could have swore the screenshot only showed the front. I must have missed the one that showed the back.

 

Updated to make it look more bland and inaccurate than the original design.

 

In order to fit the new simple design. Not the one asked for.

 

Why are people dissapointed? Probably because we expected the design in the Trailer, because that was the one we all can identify with. The one that looked cool. But for lazy purposes, that didn't happen.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Krimlord

[EnkiduNineEight]

lol, the original images showed a duster with a cape not shoulder pads.

 

And I don't see any reason (other than unwillingness to expend the effort in creating a new mesh) why they didn't just do that, or create something like the Cinematics, etc.

 

I am basing my current arguments off the 'current' images made available on the primary website, but that is certainly a valid comment as well.

 

Maybe people would just like an actual duster. And they don't want to shoulder pads.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=wild+west+duster&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS456US457&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMImdPE_p7wxwIVDn6SCh0dwAJQ&biw=1229&bih=955

 

The Gunslinger Nico Okarr was based on a wild west gunslinger look, so why not provide the players with something new to justify their expense instead of just recycling the same old assets?

 

People appear to have their complaint couched in this.

 

They had to pay for the item.

The item they will receive (if they paid) is not the item pictured in the main SWTOR website where you even learn about the promo.

The item they will receive also does not match any of the cinematic images of Nico Okarr.

The item they will receive evidently appears to be a reskin of an item they have already reskinned in game, so its just a recycled asset.

So they feel mislead and bummed out about it.

 

I am not a professional 3d modeler, but I've played around enough with the tools and the various image editing software that I could likely create something nicer that fits the current game size requirements for mesh/image in less than a couple weeks. For someone who actually supposedly does this for a living, they could likely do it in an afternoon. BioWare doesn't care to do that. it was much easier to spend 5 minutes changing a colour and editing a file so instead of being named 'Troublemaker duster' it said 'Nico's Duster'.

 

As a customer it feels 'half-assed' and as if they could really care less about the product, just taking the cash.

 

Which should not be surprising to anyone.

Edited September 12, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

http://www.swtor.com/

 

Click on the second 'banner' dot, or just wait for it to cycle, you'll get the larger image.

 

OR

 

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-203

 

I've posted this link multiple times.

 

OR:

 

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/fallenempire/bothawui/screens/duster-thumb.jpg

 

Which Both Bran and I have posted multiple times.

 

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not asking for the promotional images. I'm asking for the ingame images since you seem to know for certain that the back of the Duster, which wasn't shown in the twitter screenshot, is the same as the Troublemaker Duster. We don't know that for certain because we haven't seen the back of the Duster ingame. Just being a reskin doesn't mean everything is exactly the same (again, see the Subversive set as I mentioned earlier).

 

And, just incase anyones missed it, in the long run I really have very little cares. I don't have a horse in this race. I could care less for myself, I already paid for the sub, and did it well before I knew there were going to be incentives, and I don't really want/need the incentives they are offering (though I'll take em because they are free.. FREE *giggle*)

 

I am though willing to see the point of the people who are a bit put out by the actions of BioWare in this instance, and willing to help make their arguments because I think they were being unfairly pooh-poohed by the usual suspects.

 

It doesn't really matter if you care about it personally. Hell, as I stated, I don't blame people for being disappointed that it's a reskin of the Troublemaker Duster and considering it lazy. It is. That's not the issue I have. I take issue with saying they were misled or lied to by Bioware when the only difference that we can say for certain was there was updated within 2 weeks and it was a minor difference at that. We haven't seen the back yet so we don't know if it has the thing on the lower back or not.

 

Also, your screenshot of the Troublemaker Duster that you were comparing the shoulder armoring stuff with was a body type 3/4 character, who would have broader shoulders than Nico (who would fit more in the BT2 category). Compare it to a similar jacket on a BT2, the shoulders are much closer, and it is absolutely fair to point out that comparing promotional art to an actual in game model in the first place isn't exactly a great way to go about things. An artist drawing Nico like that wouldn't have to worry about how the jacket would look on and react to each of the different body types, since they only have to worry about Nico and Nico alone. They also don't have to worry about how it looks while in motion, which is something in game models really have to pay attention to. That gives them way more freedom to draw the armor in a way that wouldn't work well in game because none of that stuff affects them at all.

 

EDIT: Whoops, forgot the link for the BT2 jacket.

Edited September 12, 2015 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Mymph]

I had expected something along the lines of this to happen, disappointing but not unexpected. If we look at what we are offered, the duster was the one of the weaker bonuses offered. I would personally say it's my least desired of all, I could care less where it rots in my inventory. Their poor display of offering a recycled item on the other hand, shows very little consideration for those who are subscribed (myself included), attempting to tempt us with bonuses we may desire and delivering ever so poorly.

 

It would have been nice to show some love for the bonuses, new 3d models and textures, however, we are receiving the expansion at no cost(to subscribers). In Bioware's defense the bonuses are better than previous expansions, with subscribers ( as of a certain date) receiving Nico Okarr, his blasters, duster coat, a swoop bike and early access. Not too shabby for something we could consider free ( if you play regularly with a subscription).

 

Ultimately this does need to be voiced as it is poor delivery of a bonus item on their part, if we sit idle it will continue. Here is to hoping they actually remedy the situation and provide a new model at the very least. The newer armor sets in the cartel market have been amazing in regards to details compared to what we first received near when the market was introduced. I highly doubt (from my little experience in 3d modelling and texture class) that it would be such a hassle to simply create a new model and provide us with a quality bonus item.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Except the BT2 vs BT3 comparison really isn't that much different. The shoulder pads conform to the rounded nature of the shoulders and do not 'pop'/project like the art.

 

And it is possible for shoulder bits to pop.

 

http://tor-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Martial-Pilgrim-Male-Back1.png

 

So for people who may have wanted a Duster type jacket that looked more like the art, it was/is a possibility and works on all body types.

 

And, if they had wanted something more like the cinematics that could have been achieved as well.

 

Instead though we have just another barely modified/re-used art asset. The Scorpion Jacket, The troublemakers, the Various other 'Dusters' in the game are all the same basic art, they all have the upper shoulder plate and lower spine plate, they all have the shoulder conforming rounded pads, etc.

 

Do something new if you're going to try and use it as an incentive to lure people to subscribe.

[Reno_Tarshil]

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not asking for the promotional images. I'm asking for the ingame images since you seem to know for certain that the back of the Duster, which wasn't shown in the twitter screenshot, is the same as the Troublemaker Duster. We don't know that for certain because we haven't seen the back of the Duster ingame. Just being a reskin doesn't mean everything is exactly the same (again, see the Subversive set as I mentioned earlier).

 

 

 

It doesn't really matter if you care about it personally. Hell, as I stated, I don't blame people for being disappointed that it's a reskin of the Troublemaker Duster and considering it lazy. It is. That's not the issue I have. I take issue with saying they were misled or lied to by Bioware when the only difference that we can say for certain was there was updated within 2 weeks and it was a minor difference at that. We haven't seen the back yet so we don't know if it has the thing on the lower back or not.

 

Also, your screenshot of the Troublemaker Duster that you were comparing the shoulder armoring stuff with was a body type 3/4 character, who would have broader shoulders than Nico (who would fit more in the BT2 category). Compare it to a similar jacket on a BT2, the shoulders are much closer, and it is absolutely fair to point out that comparing promotional art to an actual in game model in the first place isn't exactly a great way to go about things. An artist drawing Nico like that wouldn't have to worry about how the jacket would look on and react to each of the different body types, since they only have to worry about Nico and Nico alone. They also don't have to worry about how it looks while in motion, which is something in game models really have to pay attention to. That gives them way more freedom to draw the armor in a way that wouldn't work well in game because none of that stuff affects them at all.

 

EDIT: Whoops, forgot the link for the BT2 jacket.

 

This person gets what I was saying regards to the differences between artwork and 3d in game models. They are the shoulderpads line up with the correct body type that Nico would be.

[RorrschachForum]

ITT Pixel Addicts.

[EnkiduNineEight]

So just off the top of my head plus a few others I found with a quick search:

 

Troublemaker Variants:

http://tor-fashion.com/troublemaker/

http://tor-fashion.com/subversive/

http://tor-fashion.com/electromesh-barrage-imp/

http://tor-fashion.com/electromesh-battle-imp/

http://tor-fashion.com/rd-07a-elite-watchman-imp/

http://tor-fashion.com/td-07a-scorpion/

 

Duster Variants (Only slightly different from above, all have a central split on the lower portion

http://tor-fashion.com/dynamic-vandal/

http://tor-fashion.com/voltaic-vandal/

http://tor-fashion.com/cademimu-sharpshooter-imp/

 

All of the above have essentially the same upper body portion with an additional spine padding. Spine padding shape has slight variation, but all are essentially the same thing.

 

What was 'promised' (not stating BioWare promised anything, indicating an implied promise by reference to artwork) is something different, more prominent shoulders for example, perhaps a little more 'plain' and more 'wild westy' feeling.

 

For a ore traditional duster you could combine:

http://tor-fashion.com/agents-renowned/ and http://tor-fashion.com/battlemaster-jacket-pub/ which would give the 'cape look' (get rid of the ugly neck roll portion, give it more of a collar)

 

They already have a model in the game without the spine pad portion:

http://tor-fashion.com/unfettered-trenchcoat/

 

So that can be done.

 

As mentioned in a prior post, they can create more prominent shoulder pads so that they stick out more like in the artwork and it still works with all body types such as with:

http://tor-fashion.com/martial-pilgrim/

 

For all appearances, so far, it just appears to be a stamped/reskinned version of existing asset, so hardly a 'bonus' worth paying for a subscription for by x time, because you can already achieve the exact same item in game it will just have a different name.

[Sobekeus]

It isn't "free."

 

No, it is free. It just has conditions on who gets it. You don't have to pay anything extra to get it.

[talonmke]

lol, the original images showed a duster with a cape not shoulder pads.

That's not a cape, that's just the back of the duster flapping in the wind.

[Max_Killjoy]

No, it is free. It just has conditions on who gets it. You don't have to pay anything extra to get it.

 

Was anyone able to obtain it without paying money?

[Belegnole]

That's not a cape, that's just the back of the duster flapping in the wind.

 

rofl, then you don't know what a cape is. Nor what a traditional duster is either.

[Aeristash]

Was anyone able to obtain it without paying money?

 

Everyone was able to obtain it without paying money.

[Sala]

I'm not saying this isn't a worthy post but I don't see the point. It's a gift. If you don't like it, throw it out.

 

It's 1 of several gifts given out and I'm guessing not everyone has that jacket skin either.

 

Could it be better? Sure, but it's still pretty damn nice.

[Sobekeus]

Was anyone able to obtain it without paying money?

 

I didn't pay money for it. I also am not paying money for the blasters, Niko himself, or early access.

[talonmke]

rofl, then you don't know what a cape is. Nor what a traditional duster is either.

Right, and I believe you, completely. You are right, too, it's a cape... by the way, what I said, it's called sarcasm.

[SaerethDL]

I'm really sad that they think a reskin is going to satisfy us.. I mean how much *********** effort does it take to make a new model and skin... sigh