Max_Killjoy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I paid for the sub regardless of what ends up in my mail box on certain dates. You and the others don't seem to understand how promotional items work in a business model. They aren't charging any extra for them, so they are technically losing money by not doing so. But you can argue cash flow all you want, you still have to understand it to make a point. Every business has a marketing budget, those items fall under that marketing budget, they are not paid for in the sense that a Cartel Market item is. There is no direction purchase by the customer, so it is free. Because it did not have to happen, there was no expectation nor obligation for it. Costs? It's a recolored existing item -- promoting the "reward" cost Bioware more than it cost them to program the item into the game, and that costs the same whether one person or one million people get "the reward". As for the rest the poorly-grasped economic theory being spewed around trying to twist and turn a way to make the item "not a purchase" -- whatever. You only get the item if you paid money for a subscription covering the correct date. Money goes out, item comes in. That it's tied to the subscription only means that it's part of the same purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNGDangerous Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) By paying for a subcription to swtor.com, you get to play Star Wars the Old Republic for free with the added bonus of getting subscriber bonuses for free! That means, you get a free unlock to unlimited warzone entries! Free access to removal of credit cap! Free access to use and modify purple gear! Free access to 3 crew skills per character! Free access to x12 story experience to level 55! Free access to unlimited ops runs (this does not exceed weekly lockouts- so you are still technically capped on successful ops runs) And if you subscribed during the promotion period- you will also get those bonuses for free (like nico's blasters and coat, or early access to expansion) when the expansion comes out! Look at all the free stuff you get for being a subscriber to swtor.com ! Free free free! Its like a free lalapalooza of free stuff! Edited September 13, 2015 by DNGDangerous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 By paying for a subcription to swtor.com, you get to play Star Wars the Old Republic for free with the added bonus of getting subscriber bonuses for free! That means, you get a free unlock to unlimited warzone entries! Free access to removal of credit cap! Free access to use and modify purple gear! Free access to 3 crew skills per character! Free access to x12 story experience to level 55! Free access to unlimited ops runs (this does not exceed weekly lockouts- so you are still technically capped on successful ops runs) And if you subscribed during the promotion period- you will also get those bonuses for free (like nico's blasters and coat, or early access to expansion) when the expansion comes out! Look at all the free stuff you get for being a subscriber to swtor.com ! Free free free! Its like a free lalapalooza of free stuff! Well, no. You're actually paying for those on top of the access. Don't forget this game has a F2P business model where you can play this game for nothing as either a F2P player (never paid a thing) or Preferred Status (paid for something at some point in time). So yes, you are paying. However anyone that views the promotional freebies for continuing to subscribe as anything different to the numerous speeders / pets / titles we've gained that were part of being a subscriber or pre-ordering prior expansions, is coming across as slightly self-entitled. BioWare didn't have to give us anything for continuing to subscribe, equally they didn't have to choose to give subscribers this content for free, they could have charged us an additional amount in the same way they chose to with the RotHC or SoR expansions. Be thankful for that decision, the freebies are just extras for being a continuing subscriber, which equally no player has to be due to the nature of the F2P model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Look at all the free stuff you get for being a subscriber to swtor.com ! Free free free! Its like a free lalapalooza of free stuff! Exactly. For a mere $15/month processing fee, you get all that stuff for free! Wheeee! BioWare didn't have to give us anything for continuing to subscribe, equally they didn't have to choose to give subscribers this content for free, they could have charged us an additional amount in the same way they chose to with the RotHC or SoR expansions. Be thankful for that decision, the freebies are just extras for being a continuing subscriber, which equally no player has to be due to the nature of the F2P model. Be thankful? BWEA should be thankful we pay to play the game. Otherwise a lot of them would be out of jobs. Edited September 13, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNGDangerous Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well, no. You're actually paying for those on top of the access. Don't forget this game has a F2P business model where you can play this game for nothing as either a F2P player (never paid a thing) or Preferred Status (paid for something at some point in time). So yes, you are paying. However anyone that views the promotional freebies for continuing to subscribe as anything different to the numerous speeders / pets / titles we've gained that were part of being a subscriber or pre-ordering prior expansions, is coming across as slightly self-entitled. BioWare didn't have to give us anything for continuing to subscribe, equally they didn't have to choose to give subscribers this content for free, they could have charged us an additional amount in the same way they chose to with the RotHC or SoR expansions. Be thankful for that decision, the freebies are just extras for being a continuing subscriber, which equally no player has to be due to the nature of the F2P model. No, all the things that I listed are free bonuses by subscribing to swtor.com! They are free! Remember, Star Wars the Old Rebublic is a free to play game! You literally get to play this awesome game for free just by making an account on swtor.com! But, if you pay for a subscription to swtor.com, you get some great free bonuses in Star Wars the Old Republic as a reward! By the way, for those of you out there, that havent played Star Wars the Old Republic, I suggest you give it a test drive. Its a free game- and it has a lot of great story to play through! And its Free! free free free! All you gotta do is make an account on swtor.com and then download the free game! You used to have to buy the game before, but now, swtor.com offers it for free! And like I said before, if you become a paid subscriber, you get tons of free character unlocks that you normally would have to pay for with cartel coins (which cost real life money). Cartel coins cost a lot of money to buy, so i recommend paying for a subscription to swtor.com because theres just so many cool bonuses you get for doing so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNGDangerous Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Exactly. For a mere $15/month processing fee, you get all that stuff for free! Wheeee! ^let the good times roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobekeus Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well, I'm still waiting for the crying at how Niko Okarr's Coat clips through the bottom of the speeder that comes as the next reward. I think it's funny that in the preview it is fine, but when you actually use it... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobekeus Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Costs? It's a recolored existing item -- promoting the "reward" cost Bioware more than it cost them to program the item into the game, and that costs the same whether one person or one million people get "the reward". I said nothing about how much cost, nor did I compare it to anything else's cost. Cost is cost. As for the rest the poorly-grasped economic theory being spewed around trying to twist and turn a way to make the item "not a purchase" -- whatever. You only get the item if you paid money for a subscription covering the correct date. Money goes out, item comes in. That it's tied to the subscription only means that it's part of the same purchase. When Olive Garden gives you breadsticks, you are not paying for them. That is part of their overhead. You need to grasp how money moves in a business. Yes, the customers pay for everything, but they don't own the business because of it. Customers buy a service and/or products. I bought a subscription service. I was given breadsticks in addition to the actual products I wanted. I did not ask for breadsticks, I did not pay for breadsticks. That is the definition of free, someone else paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegos Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Were there really people who started subscribing just for the trenchcoat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Were there really people who started subscribing just for the trenchcoat? Probably not. There may be a few who might have considered renewing their subscription for KotFE a bit earlier, though. (The date hasn't arrived yet, so those can still decide whether it's worth subscribing a month early or not.) It's a reward that's advertised like an incentive ("Impressive is the only word that describes Nico’s swashbuckling duster; you can be sure that wearing this duster sets you apart from other heroes."), but the quality makes it really just a by-product of subscription. Edited September 13, 2015 by KyaniteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallerine Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Ahem... this is an MMO, produced and managed by a large gaming company. By definition... they have a negative PR image with some percentage of the player base at any given time. Those that hate a game company (for whatever reason) will continue to do so and will actively seek reasons to do so. No positive PR effort can or will mediate such committed negative feelings. These same people, the very negative ones, will continue clamoring to snap up incentives and rewards every chance they can get... perhaps just so they can complain some more. No... Duster-gate will be long forgotten in a month or two as habitual haters and complainers move on to their next internet chew toy. Seriously... you have maybe a few dozen vocal complainers about this duster... without by the way actually seeing it in game yet. That does not = PR torpedo. People need to stop inflating their importance as internet complainers. There are, and always have been things about this game I do not like... but I also know there is no point in complaining 7/24 in the forums over every perceived deficiency in the game. I've only gotten to a true frustration point one time (when they were incredibly inept for months after SoR dropped), and I took a break for 6 months from the game too. Came back when they showed some evidence of forward progress of the game with 4.0 coming. Of course 4.0 could be a disaster worse then how they handled SoR too.. and if so ... and if it upsets me ... I'll take another break. Ah Andryah, defending the game as usual. I've read a few of your posts and it honestly doesn't surprise me what you've just said, as ridiculous as it is. Like you said yourself, there are things that you don't like, but you choose not to voice your opinion about them. Yet you mock others for doing exactly that. You may not complain about the game, Andryah, but you sure complain about other people all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Ah Andryah, defending the game as usual. I've read a few of your posts and it honestly doesn't surprise me what you've just said, as ridiculous as it is. Like you said yourself, there are things that you don't like, but you choose not to voice your opinion about them. Yet you mock others for doing exactly that. You may not complain about the game, Andryah, but you sure complain about other people all the time. Actually, Andryah has been critical of the game and BioWare in the past, and has stated those criticisms in the forums. Amazing how people see only what they want to see when attempting personal attacks on someone who disagrees with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falensawino Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Heh, I too saw the reddit threads making fun of the Coat and Blasters. I just really wanted Nico Okarr . 7 days of early access don't mean much to me. I purchased the digital upgrade pack that gave all my toons a free STAP speeder in the mail. The free* speeder sent via ingame mail was worth the 5 or 10 dollars for the upgrade. A free* companion delivered in ingame mail for all my toons, future, past and present. SURE sign me up. Edited September 13, 2015 by Falensawino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Ah Andryah, defending the game as usual. I've read a few of your posts and it honestly doesn't surprise me what you've just said, as ridiculous as it is. Like you said yourself, there are things that you don't like, but you choose not to voice your opinion about them. Yet you mock others for doing exactly that. You may not complain about the game, Andryah, but you sure complain about other people all the time. She's right, though. Personally, I think it's a bit of a cop-out... but then I'm not really that upset anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 She's right, though. Personally, I think it's a bit of a cop-out... but then I'm not really that upset anyway. You're far too relaxed lately, we need more players to have tantrums on the forums, not this insanely relaxed "meh" that exudes from you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I said nothing about how much cost, nor did I compare it to anything else's cost. Cost is cost. Really? Every business has a marketing budget, those items fall under that marketing budget, they are not paid for in the sense that a Cartel Market item is. It's part of the "budget", but there's no "cost"? Interesting. And here's the (by far) more important thing -- as the customer, I do not care, have no reason to care, and have no obligation to care, which part of "the budget" a product or service comes out of when I'm making a purchase. It makes no difference to me whether the cost of a promo item came out of the production budget, the marketing budget, the CEO-golden-parachute budget, or the janitorial budget. All I need care about, as the customer, is what I spent, and what I received in return. ---- When Olive Garden gives you breadsticks, you are not paying for them. That is part of their overhead. You need to grasp how money moves in a business. Yes, the customers pay for everything, but they don't own the business because of it. Customers buy a service and/or products. I bought a subscription service. I was given breadsticks in addition to the actual products I wanted. I did not ask for breadsticks, I did not pay for breadsticks. That is the definition of free, someone else paid for it. So I can walk into Olive Garden, ask for a bag of breadsticks, and walk out, without buying anything else? Or do I have to buy something that includes, as part of the purchase, those breadsticks? If I have to pay for something, it's not free. Maybe it's decades of late-night commercials with too-loud, too-fast presenters promising "order now, and get a second one free, just pay additional shipping and handling!", that has people believing that they're getting things for free when they had to spend money to obtain them. Maybe it's all those "buy 1 get 1 free!" promos over the years. (Also, this "they don't own the business" thing is a giant red herring, a completely nonsensical bit of non-sequitur, and you only make your position look silly by hauling it out. No one has claimed -- or said anything that even implied -- that the customers own the business by the act of buying products or services.) Edited September 13, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNGDangerous Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Really? It's part of the "budget", but there's no "cost"? Interesting. And here's the (by far) more important thing -- as the customer, I do not care, have no reason to care, and have no obligation to care, which part of "the budget" a product or service comes out of when I'm making a purchase. It makes no difference to me whether the cost of a promo item came out of the production budget, the marketing budget, the CEO-golden-parachute budget, or the janitorial budget. All I need care about, as the customer, is what I spent, and what I received in return. ---- So I can walk into Olive Garden, ask for a bag of breadsticks, and walk out, without buying anything else? Or do I have to buy something that includes, as part of the purchase, those breadsticks? If I have to pay for something, it's not free. Maybe it's decades of late-night commercials with too-loud, too-fast presenters promising "order now, and get a second one free, just pay additional shipping and handling!", that has people believing that they're getting things for free when they had to spend money to obtain them. Maybe it's all those "buy 1 get 1 free!" promos over the years. (Also, this "they don't own the business" thing is a giant red herring, a completely nonsensical bit of non-sequitur, and you only make your position look silly by hauling it out. No one has claimed -- or said anything that even implied -- that the customers own the business by the act of buying products or services.) ^My mind is officially blown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmoor Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I re-subbed for the rewards The blasters I like. Long barrel and all, they ok. But if they do not rework the duster into something more trailer like that will be bad! The duster in the picture posted doesn't even look like it can be fastened! It looks like it's missing the front piece or something! I want a billowing duster on my char not wet looking cloth that clings to it's body! Not to mention the clipping through mount texture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuratReis Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I guess you are free to be wrong if you want to be but it really is a silly stupid argument. You are also free to not pay a subscription, not get unlimited access to fps, ops, and warzones, be limited on how many toons you can play, and just use a dyed coat that's already in game. But to claim that we were charged for the duster is just silly and stupid Bioware marked the jacket to get people to sub/continue subbing. Their intentions were obvious -- they needed something to keep people subbing during the content drought. It's not as black and white as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I said nothing about how much cost, nor did I compare it to anything else's cost. Cost is cost. When Olive Garden gives you breadsticks, you are not paying for them. That is part of their overhead. You need to grasp how money moves in a business. Yes, the customers pay for everything, but they don't own the business because of it. Customers buy a service and/or products. I bought a subscription service. I was given breadsticks in addition to the actual products I wanted. I did not ask for breadsticks, I did not pay for breadsticks. That is the definition of free, someone else paid for it. This is why I said earlier people are either stupid or being obtuse. If the 'free' breadsticks cost the company money to produce, and is considered part of their _overhead_ then how do they pay for their overhead? Well, they bundle it in with their normal menu pricing. So, your 'free' breadsticks' likely cost you a few cents across the menu item prices. You don't really care if the menu says 9.95 or 9.97 for a dish because its two cents. AND you don't mind going to Olive Garden because HEY FREE Breadsticks! But they are not FREE, they are merely not billed as an individual line item on your receipt, instead the cost for them is bundled up in the cost of the other menu items, like the FREE Silverware and the FREE Plates you get to use RENT FREE and the FREE person who will attend to your needs while you sit at their FREE tables under their FREE roof. If they were FREE breadsticks they would not have the disclaimer 'With any menu item purchase' and you could Walk into Olive Garden and say, I would like an order of FREE Breadsticks and then walk the f out the door. So, since this ITEM and all the other items are only 'FREE' if you make a specific purchase by a specific point, they are not really FREE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Bioware marked the jacket to get people to sub/continue subbing. Their intentions were obvious -- they needed something to keep people subbing during the content drought. It's not as black and white as you think. Indeed. Things like this are a typical marketing ploy to play upon the nuances of the human psyche. For instance, the "buy one get one free" offer is not really offering anything for free. As stated you cannot go into a store and get that one item completely free of charge. You have to spend money first before you are eligible to qualify for that item. Therefore it is not free. In actuality, BOGO is "get two items for 50% off each." But try marketing it that way, and you will see that it doesn't capture quite the amount of attention that BOGO does. If I walk by a fudge shop that is offering free samples, and in order to get that free sample, all I have to do is take one off the plate of the employee standing in front of the shop - that's free. If I have to go inside and make a purchase before I get that "Free" sample, then the sample is not really free. Just like the expansion is not really free either. I have to pay, at minimum, $15 in order to have access to the expansion. That's not free. Edited September 13, 2015 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Actually, Andryah has been critical of the game and BioWare in the past, and has stated those criticisms in the forums. Amazing how people see only what they want to see when attempting personal attacks on someone who disagrees with them. And Andryah QUIT the game over actions BioWare/EA made that are not too dissimilar from this one, yet here it is, cheerfully telling everyone they shouldn't be upset and that they are stupid and that this is all fine rahrahrah sissboombah! It is inconsistent in its behaviours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falensawino Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Bioware marked the jacket to get people to sub/continue subbing. Their intentions were obvious -- they needed something to keep people subbing during the content drought. It's not as black and white as you think.No. I'd call it a preorder bonus. KotFE's preorder bonus came in 5 parts. 1 companion 2 companion items (coat and blaster set) 1 speeder 1 = 7 days of early access if all of the above was acquired That was KotFE's preorder bonus 1. Shadows of Revan (my memory fails) had 12xp for preorders 2. Rise of the Hutt Cartel had a Hutt Holo Trainer statue (basically you have a skill trainer wherever you go) 3. Nico Okarr (a companion) is the most useful preorder item for Knights of the Fallen Empire. Edited September 13, 2015 by Falensawino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Were there really people who started subscribing just for the trenchcoat? I doubt there are (or at least I imagine there are very few). But there are probably quite a few who decided to not let their sub lapse because of the swag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 No. I'd call it a preorder bonus. KotFE's preorder bonus came in 5 parts. 1 companion 2 companion items (coat and blaster set) 1 speeder 1 = 7 days of early access if all of the above was acquired That was KotFE's preorder bonus 1. Shadows of Revan (my memory fails) had 12xp for preorders 2. Rise of the Hutt Cartel had a Hutt Holo Trainer statue (basically you have a skill trainer wherever you go) 3. Nico Okarr (a companion) is the most useful preorder item for Knights of the Fallen Empire. Except that the way this is advertised, it is not a preorder bonus. Being a preorder bonus, you would have to actually preorder and purchase a copy of the game in order to receive the bonus. However, the rewards description declares: BE A SUBSCRIBER ON THE DATES BELOW TO EARN REWARDS IN-GAME AT LAUNCH* Nico Okarr Duster Coat SEP 30 Impressive is the only word that describes Nico’s swashbuckling duster; you can be sure that wearing this duster sets you apart from other heroes. *Terms and Conditions •To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PDT//6:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. •Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail and are redeemable as of the launch of the expansion upon login on October 27, 2015. •To qualify for the Early Access Bonus, you must have qualified for each of the four rewards by being a subscriber on each of the 4 listed reward dates. Once you qualify you may enter and play Knights of the Fallen Empire on October 20, 2015, seven (7) days prior to live launch on October 27, 2015. •**The Subscriber Epic Story XP Boost offers a significant enhancement of about 12x normal rate to the class story progression experience and includes: •Increased commendations to support gear needs along the way •Quick travel points unlocked as soon as they are revealed on the map •Reduced cool down on quick travel options Nowhere in any of that does it state that you have to have KotFE to receive the subscriber rewards. According to the marketing material, one could in theory subscribe on Sep 30th, then cancel the subscription before the KotFE launch, and they should still receive the duster without ever having, or "preordering", KotFE. Whether or not it will be different in reality is a question of how accurately their marketing has portrayed the way this will be handled. BW has already revealed that to get Niko himself, you will have to enter KotFE, so that is already a departure from their advertised details. But the fact remains that according to their marketing and public announcements, these are not preorder rewards, as they should be obtainable without the expansion itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts