I need to vent about people who can't guard nodes

[Sepruzzo]

Civil War. Novare Coast. Ancient Hypergate. Voidstar.

 

Whenever I'm either a) playing a non-stealth character or b) not guarding a door, I always have a sick sensation of impending doom when I know that the fate of the match depends on the competence (or lack thereof) of another player.

 

As an operative and assassin, I know I can kite up to 6 people at a time in Voidstar to stall before help arrives or the door opens up. As a non-stealth, I'm pretty good at using dcd's, cc's and prepping my calls in advance to make sure I give my team ample time and opportunity to respond to the call.

 

Sure, there are times when triple deception or concealment hit you and it's gg for the node and I'm okay with that. But what really pisses me the *** off is when people lose 1v1s at a node and do not make a single mention in chat that they need help. And what pisses me off even more is that this happens a vast percentage of the time when I'm not in either of the first two aforementioned scenarios.

 

What sent me over the edge tonight was a Novare Coast. I was on my Jugg and used it to spearhead the attack at mid, popping saber ward and doing big damage to push their range heavy team back while we easily capped mid. Upon dying at mid, I noticed on my mini map that our east guard was missing (dead), so I hopped to the eastern spawn point and waited for what seemed like 10 years before the gate opened while I saw a vanguard casually recharge his HP after 1v1'ing our stellar no calling "guard".

 

What seemed like would be an easy win turned into a 92-0 rout because we could never gain any momentum back after losing that node. They regrouped, got their 3 healers to back them up and cruised to victory. After we lost east, all I could think about was how many countless times I've carried teams as a stealth character by simply knowing how and when to 1v1, kite, call, stall the other team, or take someone else's node.

 

This feeling has become more poignant to me recently, as I've been playing a lot of scoundrel/operative because it's so much fun and I feel like I can be deciding factor in almost any game. So when I log onto a non-stealth toon, I always feel a bit apprehensive and anxious leaving the fate of our team in someone else's hands. More times than not I am left disappointed but not surprised by the fact that they get dumpstered, don't call out and we lose.

 

Sometimes I ignore objectives and just go to farm damage, but ultimately I do want to win, and I just can't enjoy pvp'ing and doing my thing when I have to worry about terribads, scrubs and worthless sh*tters who can't call, can't 1v1 and can't do anything useful in a warzone.

[Racter]

This is a rant I think everyone feels like dumping every once in a while lol

[VaeVictis]

I consider it a victory if anyone is willing to go to the off-node period.

 

Otherwise there are a couple of things I do myself:

 

If I don't trust the off-node guard I put them as my Focus Target so I'll instantly know if they get CC'd or start taking damage. Then I will either call for them or start heading that way myself.

 

I also have my max camera distance set to 300%. You say a Vanguard took your off-node...a non-stealth in any NC I'm in wouldn't even make it halfway to the off-node without me seeing them.

 

As the enemy team starts dying I start keeping an eye on the respawn gates to get a sense where the they're lining up.

 

Once a node is no longer under threat I call out "Clear" whether I'm at the node or not so the rest of the team doesn't over commit.

 

Basically I expect node guards to be bad and/or not call so I simply prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Edited September 7, 2015 by VaeVictis

[ZoreWon]

I dont know anymore. I'm so tired of guarding off nodes, I wish they would get rid of them. It can be fun once in a blue moon but there are games when all you do is sit there. I can do it about 2 or 3 times a day then I'm done.

 

I dont mind winning or losing the thing I really hate is getting stomped on the floor,, that sucks.

[wadecounty]

I consider it a victory if anyone is willing to go to the off-node period.

 

Otherwise there are a couple of things I do myself:

 

If I don't trust the off-node guard I put them as my Focus Target so I'll instantly know if they get CC'd or start taking damage. Then I will either call for them or start heading that way myself.

 

I also have my max camera distance set to 300%. You say a Vanguard took your off-node...a non-stealth in any NC I'm in wouldn't even make it halfway to the off-node without me seeing them.

 

As the enemy team starts dying I start keeping an eye on the respawn gates to get a sense where the they're lining up.

 

Once a node is no longer under threat I call out "Clear" whether I'm at the node or not so the rest of the team doesn't over commit.

 

Basically I expect node guards to be bad and/or not call so I simply prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

This.

 

Use Focus Target and you'll always know whats up, along with some general awareness.

 

What really annoys me isn't people being bad at guarding, I expect that. And people even offering to guard is a bonus in my book.

 

No, what really annoys me, is like you get a Hypergate, you're on a class that clearly shouldn't be guarding the pylon (Jugg, Mara, Merc healer etc) and your team has like 4-5 stealthers, and none of them are willing to guard. THAT is what kills me, as someone who is always willing to guard when they play a stealther. And I don't wanna hear that they ALWAYS guard, in fact usually 2-3 of them I'll recognize as deathmatchers that never guard and only ever try to ninja the off node.

 

So yeah, I'll never complain about someone guarding even if they're horrible at it, just because most players refuse to even do it. Focus Target is not hard. But I will complain about "good" players who would never get caught dead guarding the node.

[Feztonio]

if the team was that poorly organized it sounds like there were 6 to 7 scoreboard damage heroes just facerolling at mid not paying any attention whatsoever to the strategy. calling unfortunately doesn't help in those instances. it is no fun though when your team half wants to mash mash mash mash for big scoreboard numbers as youre losing huttball 6-0, or go afk and surf **** or cat videos on youtube. if you're not going to try to win, why que up at all?

[CaptRogue]

What about: being in Voidstar, calling for help on one side, holding off 2 for as long as you can. Die & waiting for the gate to go down, seeing your former target setting the bomb. Type for help on that side again, and look at your map to see that on the side the rest of your team is at, the bomb is also set. How does that happen?!

That's when you know you have a bad team.

 

One of my greatest pet peeves in all the node guarding ones is people who rush to take the node, then run off. Only taking the node for the points & medal. You call them out & they tell you to guard it.

 

Another is the fact of if I don't take the node in most matches I play, it doesn't get taken. They rush out of base straight for the middle in AH & CW. In NC you will get more running to take east/west depending on what side you come out of.

[EnzoForMe]

Node guarding in this game is incredibly boring and one of the things I'm glad arenas got rid of (it's also one of the many reasons I love huttball).

 

Back in 8v8 ranked I distinctly remember our shadow node guarding a 40 minute civil war which was won 10-0 because we clicked the speeder faster and popped pred faster and no one came over to fight him. This happened a few times in games that I played and game that I saw other teams play, and always made me glad I never mained a shadow back then lol.

 

The bottom line is there has to be some sort of incentive to node guard because it is boring AF in most games. Perhaps people guarding nodes could accumulate a separate set of medals that awarded double credits or something like that. until then, you will always see people capping a node and then running away as fast as possible.

[Voths]

For the first time in I don't know how long I decided to go guard the healers in AHG instead of defend like I always do. It didn't end well. Other team double capped because nobody took ours.

 

Then the operative DPS who stays in the middle the whole time cusses everyone out and quits.

[DarthMaulUK]

The shoe can be on the other foot when your team is just full of number whores. I had a game over the weekend in Novare Coast, I called 3 times for help, as I was holding off 2 stealth. No one came. Once I engaged in battle, killed 1 but couldnt go back in to stealth thanks to server lag - I still didn't have any help - so I just left.

 

I will never waste my time with players like that.

Edited September 7, 2015 by DarthMaulUK

[Alericus]

everything stated just shows we need to split out the arena deathmatches from the other warzones, it might may queues longer but at least you'd know the players want to be there. I think this is what really is killing pvp. Players just don't want to play objectives they want to slam against each other to see who has the bigger epeen So be it, if I don't have to see these little turds every again Ill be happy let them play death match all day, Ill forgo arenas any day.

[Jake_Chambers]

besides not calling incs the biggest issue people seem to have is not informing their team how many are there, saying "WEST", "EAST","SOUTH", "PYLON" is nice and all but then 6 of your team goes to help them only to find out it was simply one person and your team lost the other mode

 

Personally I'd rather someone not guard than guard badly

[Volthammer]

I smell whatcher steppin' in, OP. I'm usually the one that gets stuck guarding an off cap. Like you, I have a bit of a tough time relaxing if I'm not the one guarding because A. I can do it successfully 99.9% of the time and B. 90% of other players just run off and leave it to lawl derp solo zerg the other off cap, which almost always just gets them killed and then our own cap is lost.

 

I've almost quit trying to encourage players to guard what they cap because they just don't seem to care at all.

[Icykill_]

Civil War. Novare Coast. Ancient Hypergate. Voidstar.

 

Whenever I'm either a) playing a non-stealth character or b) not guarding a door, I always have a sick sensation of impending doom when I know that the fate of the match depends on the competence (or lack thereof) of another player.

 

As an operative and assassin, I know I can kite up to 6 people at a time in Voidstar to stall before help arrives or the door opens up. As a non-stealth, I'm pretty good at using dcd's, cc's and prepping my calls in advance to make sure I give my team ample time and opportunity to respond to the call.

 

Sure, there are times when triple deception or concealment hit you and it's gg for the node and I'm okay with that. But what really pisses me the *** off is when people lose 1v1s at a node and do not make a single mention in chat that they need help. And what pisses me off even more is that this happens a vast percentage of the time when I'm not in either of the first two aforementioned scenarios.

 

What sent me over the edge tonight was a Novare Coast. I was on my Jugg and used it to spearhead the attack at mid, popping saber ward and doing big damage to push their range heavy team back while we easily capped mid. Upon dying at mid, I noticed on my mini map that our east guard was missing (dead), so I hopped to the eastern spawn point and waited for what seemed like 10 years before the gate opened while I saw a vanguard casually recharge his HP after 1v1'ing our stellar no calling "guard".

 

What seemed like would be an easy win turned into a 92-0 rout because we could never gain any momentum back after losing that node. They regrouped, got their 3 healers to back them up and cruised to victory. After we lost east, all I could think about was how many countless times I've carried teams as a stealth character by simply knowing how and when to 1v1, kite, call, stall the other team, or take someone else's node.

 

This feeling has become more poignant to me recently, as I've been playing a lot of scoundrel/operative because it's so much fun and I feel like I can be deciding factor in almost any game. So when I log onto a non-stealth toon, I always feel a bit apprehensive and anxious leaving the fate of our team in someone else's hands. More times than not I am left disappointed but not surprised by the fact that they get dumpstered, don't call out and we lose.

 

Sometimes I ignore objectives and just go to farm damage, but ultimately I do want to win, and I just can't enjoy pvp'ing and doing my thing when I have to worry about terribads, scrubs and worthless sh*tters who can't call, can't 1v1 and can't do anything useful in a warzone.

 

What's worse than the bad guards are the no guards...

So many times if I am at the South node in Nova, only to see the noob who capped it has run to the other node to try and cap it too... Leaving our node completely unguarded... If I can leave South I try to get to our node as fast as possible, but usually I see the other team casually capping it before I can get there... When you point out to them how stupid that was they say things like stuffU, L2P or I was board... Rarely do they listen and will often do exactly the same thing again and again...

Same thing in Hypergates... They cap the pylon and run to mid to fluff their DPS numbers... Completely leaving the node unguarded... Sure enough you look around and see the other guys capping it... When you ask them to go back they won't, so if you want to have a chance of winning you have to go do it... I always say at the beginning of a match "if you cap it, you guard it"... But 7/10 matches people just run off... When you say don't go there if you aren't going to guard, they ignore you and do it anyway... If I see someone going to cap I'm not going to run there unless a heap of the other team is... But these fools just want to get medals and DPS points... I've gotten to the point where if I see this happen I don't bother even saying anything anymore... I just leave...

Then you have the cap heroes or ninja heroes in Civil War and too a less extent Void Star... People in civil war cap... Run off to the next node leaving the one they capped unguarded all so they can rotate and cap... Even when you own a node... 4 of you there under attack by 7 and you call for help... Their off trying to get the 3rd node and won't even try to help... Sometimes they'll even cap it and run to you so they can DPS because all the other team is there... But they leave the node unguarded... On Void Star I actually watched a Sin on our team ninja the door... And then run off to DPS instead of guarding it... Sure enough they just casually disarmed it before any of us could get there... He then ninja'd it again and did the same thing... When asked what the F was he doing... He said practicing his ninja and DPS skills... He lost us that match of course...

I can understand someone who doesn't call incs when guarding, what ever the reason it is (still not good)... But those others have zero excuse for their behaviour... There are more people with this bad attitude and more selfish players than there used to be... They are also giving a bad example to new players who are starting to emulate them which is just compounding the issue...

Basically too many bad attitude people in PVP these days... They are the bads... Not under skilled people who try to play properly... The bads are the noobs who don't care about anything but themselves

[Icykill_]

besides not calling incs the biggest issue people seem to have is not informing their team how many are there, saying "WEST", "EAST","SOUTH", "PYLON" is nice and all but then 6 of your team goes to help them only to find out it was simply one person and your team lost the other mode

 

Personally I'd rather someone not guard than guard badly

 

Yep... I always ask them to give us numbers... ie, I will always say S3 if I'm guarding snow and I have 3 incs... I even call incs if I'm at another node and notice they havent called incs yet... I'm probably the most mobile player on most of my teams... My situational awareness is pretty good and I'm always looking at my mini map... I am usually the first to disengage to rush to our other node, especially when I see their numbers diminishing... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise if there is only 1 of them and 5 of you, that the rest are on their way to the other node

[AdrianDmitruk]

Usually I'm a healer, but my pet gripe is that when I am on a stealther, and I node guard, the rest of my team loses the cap at mid within the first minute, and I am helpless to watch bads be bad on the ops frame and die repeatedly, unable to carry my "team" that somehow manages to go from full respawn to wipe in ten seconds or less while I haplessly twiddle my thumbs node guarding.

 

(Granted a lot of those teams are unhealable anyway, but at least I can delude myself into thinking I have a fool's chance in hell rather than twiddling my thumbs at the offnode.)

 

Heal mid? Watch as bad, no-calling "node guards" lose the offnode and with it the game...

 

Node guard? Watch as bads in mid lose the mid node, and with it the game...

 

Bottom line is, bads will be bads, you're fooked no matter what you do.

[Yezzan]

Here's the deal, if you queue for PvP, expect everyone to be bad; especially if you are playing Republic. When you are a Sentinel and you end up guarding a node, you know what time it is. Two of us holding off 6 people, in Voidstar; you call out, "east heavy" only to realize that the side that is supposed to have 6 of your people and two enemies, got capped!

 

I never quit matches because if I did, I wouldn't be able to complete my weekly. I thought I was bad, but some of these players make me look like I am some expert at SWTOR.

[jedcjedcjedc]

What about: being in Voidstar, calling for help on one side, holding off 2 for as long as you can. Die & waiting for the gate to go down, seeing your former target setting the bomb. Type for help on that side again, and look at your map to see that on the side the rest of your team is at, the bomb is also set. How does that happen?!

That's when you know you have a bad team.

 

One of my greatest pet peeves in all the node guarding ones is people who rush to take the node, then run off. Only taking the node for the points & medal. You call them out & they tell you to guard it.

 

Another is the fact of if I don't take the node in most matches I play, it doesn't get taken. They rush out of base straight for the middle in AH & CW. In NC you will get more running to take east/west depending on what side you come out of.

 

This x5 is how it usually is for me in AH. 2-3 people will go mid (Including myself in that amount) while everyone else runs to cap the pylon for those 2 extra comms it'll get 'em.

[DomiSotto]

The main reason I haven't tried stealth class is that from the get go I could see that their role is special in this game, and that they have to make strategic choices fast.

 

I have been playing with a premade lately that uses the same tactics over and over - sending two sins to cap the offnode while sacrificing the pug at the mid in a 4 vs 6 stand. I accept that we'll be wrecked, for the sake of a bigger picture. These guys use the pug's mentality to their advantage.

 

Same for off-node taking. Stealth that peels off at the right point when the mid is hopelessly tied, and the offnode guard is distracted is priceless. Stealth that picks the AHG in the 45 to 30 sec window, etc, etc.

 

Stealth, as in OP's post that can hold the node or tie out the cap for a long time...

 

All of it is amazing, but it requires a clever player, and it is not something folks talk a lot about. Strategy, interestingly enough, is very rarely discussed here if at all. Mostly it is pros and cons of classes. But knowing a class without knowing a role, and the best way to use it, well, that's not good.

 

I see a huge increase in folks playing scops right now. But a lot of them play haphazardly.

 

OP, the other day someone joked during a raid: "If I put all my toons together, I could have a raid party". You can only play one toon. Pick your role, stick to it, and if you could offer help to someone, please, do. Or play in a tandem with a stealth that you can rely on.

 

If you can't, well, you have one toon. A front-line DPS/tank is not a common role to take right now, and it is not an easy role either and getting far less common..

 

Anyway, I am glad you have posted, and I wish we could have a bigger discussion on the roles of the ACs in the game, and how to quickly strategies based on the comp. I am sure you guys did it back when 8x8 was ranked.

Edited September 8, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Lundorff]

1) No one are going east on NC, so I go (am stealth so fine).

 

2) While capping ours I see 2 scoundrels at west.

 

3) I finish capping, go stealth and say something along the lines of: "I might have company soon. They are 2 stealth west."

 

4) A few seconds later a scoundrel is about to cap ours.

 

5) I call "1 e" and stealth-sleep him but notices the other scoundrel and is forced into combat. I also notice that we are losing south...

 

6) So I fight them and delay them as long as possible, but to no avail. I die and they cap for a 3 cap....

 

Almost make we wanna go premade

[PaulusMaulus]

Node guarding in this game is incredibly boring and one of the things I'm glad arenas got rid of (it's also one of the many reasons I love huttball).

 

Back in 8v8 ranked I distinctly remember our shadow node guarding a 40 minute civil war which was won 10-0 because we clicked the speeder faster and popped pred faster and no one came over to fight him. This happened a few times in games that I played and game that I saw other teams play, and always made me glad I never mained a shadow back then lol.

 

The bottom line is there has to be some sort of incentive to node guard because it is boring AF in most games. Perhaps people guarding nodes could accumulate a separate set of medals that awarded double credits or something like that. until then, you will always see people capping a node and then running away as fast as possible.

 

BORING? HELL NO! I am the default guard in most war zones for the reason already stated here that 95% of the Pub PVP population refuses to guard and they have 20 reason why this is so. The reason it is not boring is because as a non-stealth toon (Sage DPS), I have to keep moving around constantly and dropping my AOEs periodically to detect a stealth toon who could ninja me at any time. If a Sin/Op combo hits me, all I will be able to do is to call for help before dying while perma stunned. Some of the best Pub teams I have been on and whom I will happily do guard duty for until the cows come home, are the ones who are quick to respond to my help calls. I don't care if its one guy making a play for our node, if we lose it, it is hard to get it back so why not ask for help? I am sick of the DPS death matchers who say I should be able to fend off an attacker all by myself without help. Maybe I can and maybe I can't, but why not have some insurance in the form of team assistance?

[RAVM]

Stealthers, especially Assassins, are why I hate solo guarding. Edited September 9, 2015 by RAVM

[Svarthrafn]

Tell me about it. As rage jugg I can fold pretty fast under a good stealther. DCD's are little comfort while I'm stunned and some scoundrel is shoving 8 and 9k up my ***. I'm not as good as the "real" good players.

 

I take the stun time to get out a good call and then try as hard as I can to survive until (if) help arrives. Wtb node guarding respec.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Svarthrafn

[Xanas]

I play a guardian and a jugger on TOFN. I always go and defend even if its boring. I had so many losses because people can't defend I lost count. Even if I am by no means the best class to defend I still feel better if I am the one defending. What I hate is when people can't even send help when I call. Like it happen last night.

I called inc 2 at W bunker, nobody came. Then I got pissed, called all of them ******* and left. I even did a "WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" so people can see it, they did not give a ****, I always try to do something like that after caling with a simple 2w so it will jump in people faces.

 

Its even more horrible on REP side, on IMP side is so much better. 90% of games on REP side is like playing with a bunch of headless chickens. They can't even follow simple commands. Example last game last night. I told them just as the explosion is gone (Hypergate) we all run to our pylon as we just got BOTH of them and we only needed that 1 pylon to win, I was sure they would do what we just did and send people to stop us from capping. Guess what happened, not 1 followed me to help get pylon and 1 dude delayed me long enough for a lot of other IMPS to get there and lose. Got really pissed off to say the least, all they had to do is listen to me, follow me to pylon and win, but nop.

 

I really love playing on Rep side but playing PvP with the people on that side is like gauging your own eyes out. I think I am jumping ship to IMPS completely even if I don't like to play a sith. On that side most people have a brain. Playing REP on TOFN is frustrating to no end.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Xanas

[Icykill_]

The main reason I haven't tried stealth class is that from the get go I could see that their role is special in this game, and that they have to make strategic choices fast.

 

I have been playing with a premade lately that uses the same tactics over and over - sending two sins to cap the offnode while sacrificing the pug at the mid in a 4 vs 6 stand. I accept that we'll be wrecked, for the sake of a bigger picture. These guys use the pug's mentality to their advantage.

 

Same for off-node taking. Stealth that peels off at the right point when the mid is hopelessly tied, and the offnode guard is distracted is priceless. Stealth that picks the AHG in the 45 to 30 sec window, etc, etc.

 

Stealth, as in OP's post that can hold the node or tie out the cap for a long time...

 

All of it is amazing, but it requires a clever player, and it is not something folks talk a lot about. Strategy, interestingly enough, is very rarely discussed here if at all. Mostly it is pros and cons of classes. But knowing a class without knowing a role, and the best way to use it, well, that's not good.

 

I see a huge increase in folks playing scops right now. But a lot of them play haphazardly.

 

OP, the other day someone joked during a raid: "If I put all my toons together, I could have a raid party". You can only play one toon. Pick your role, stick to it, and if you could offer help to someone, please, do. Or play in a tandem with a stealth that you can rely on.

 

If you can't, well, you have one toon. A front-line DPS/tank is not a common role to take right now, and it is not an easy role either and getting far less common..

 

Anyway, I am glad you have posted, and I wish we could have a bigger discussion on the roles of the ACs in the game, and how to quickly strategies based on the comp. I am sure you guys did it back when 8x8 was ranked.

 

I once felt the way you do about rolling a stealth for pvp... But after my first I was hooked, I now have 6... It's not really that hard to learn the base tactics... Just watch what people do to you on your other toons and watch what your stealths do to them...

You'll also evolve your own tactics... These are what most people try to keep to themselves or friends... It's these slightly different and sometimes quirky tactics that can give you the edge... Which is why you don't see many people posting them... Otherwise too many people know and you lose that advantage fast...

The tactics that your stealth friends are using are very effective and it always amazes me as a stealth that people fall for it... 9 out of 10 civil wars when I'm on my stealth I go to the opposite node to cap it while the meat bags run to mid to distract... I know damn well that any stealth on the other team will do the same to ours... I always say to the guys... Please send 2 to ours, They will undoubtedly do what I'm going to do to them.. Probably only 2 out of 10 games do people listen.. Even if I get to theirs and they've sent 2 or more... I will tie them up so long that our guys should have capped mid and our one... I've actually prevented 4 from capping for over a minute...

The most annoying thing about trying to ninja or even distract is usually your own team... Even if I've captured the node and we have the other one... People won't leave mid... I can call inc 3 and see no one come... I get to inc 5 and still see the respawns jumping mid and actually fighting at the respawn point because they don't push forward or go left to either go around the back or underneath... I inevitably lose the node and they still haven't capped mid against 2-3... Then they decide to go to the node you just lost while the enemy have 5-6 people there instead of actually pushing mid... If all they want to do is death match then do it at the ones we hold... The enemy will attack, why not Death match at the node?? Doh...

And the last one is you have waited patiently for all the enemy to run off and leave 1-2 guards, who become complacent... You start your attack and will probably be able to cap... Only to see 2-3 of your guys running from the respawn to you, which draws the attention of the enemy team, who then dispatch backup to the node you are trying to capture... This competely negates your efforts and they are now more alert to you trying again (you can only try this once or twice per match)...

Strategy in pvp is a lost art form now... If they were to actually bring back ranked 8 man it would make people learn strategy again (I mean solo queue)...

Anyway... Too many bads... I really can't be bothered trying to help them anymore... It's like bashing your head on the wall and expecting it won't hurt... I've reached my limit in frustration... It is less stressful and better for my blood pressure to just leave those matches full of idiots... If my next 2 pops aren't any better I either swap pvp brackets or factions... If it gets to bad I go farm slicing boxes on Yavin while flagged for pvp and kill the occasional noob that jumps me