Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Jedi Knight + Sith Warrior

[JLazarillo]

It resets the gear for pve.

 

That's the same problem. Characters should not get weaker as they level. But in this game, they've basically decided what "endgame balance" is supposed to look like, and rather than trying to scale things to improvement, they instead just make it so you just have to keep re-earning the last 5 levels.

 

They could maintain the balance just as well by leaving the level caps where they are.

[Reno_Tarshil]

It can't be the ONLY reason. Or they could just give us an ability that looks cool and feels fun, but does **** dps and makes you take 200% damage and kills you afterwards, but as long as it's fun, it's ok, right?

 

You don't have to use it.

[Rafaman]

Meh. I'll have to play my sent a bit with the Blitz ability etc. to see what it means.

 

kk. what is next?

 

Oh... by the by, I do like that Combat finally gets a bleed. That will be interesting.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Rafaman

[Alssaran]

I'm indifferent to the Blade Dance change. I can live with it, but I can also do without it. At least that name suggests more than one attack, unlike Master Strike.

 

What I really don't like, coming from someone who plays Juggernaut/Sentinel since early access, is the Mad Dash/Blade Blitz ability. I would love for the combat designer responsible for the Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior changes to come in here and explain exactly how that is supposed to improve the performance of those classes in PvE and PvP?

 

Let's look at some situations:

 

PvE: I can see that something the likes of Mad Dash/Blade Blitz could be useful, as in getting to a certain position for add destruction more quickly. However, the ability as it is now seems really contradictory to that point. If I activate Mad Dash and I run past the 4m attack range, what then?

 

PvP: This is more important. I'll draw on another game to explain why I think Blade Blitz, as I think it works now, doesn't work. The ability doesn't take in much movement. You want a more movement based game, yet you include a long CD that is immediately countered by that same argument? You can easily dash past a target. You'll not solve the problem, but rather move it from left to right. "I was behind the target? Great, now I'm 10 meters infront of him without LoS.".

 

In my opinion you had the correct idea behind Mad Dash, but the execution is just wrong. What would help is something like that:

 

Mad Dash

40 sec cooldown

Calls upon the dark side of the force to dash forward in an unwavering assault. The Warrior will dash forward until he hits an enemy, but only to a maximum of twenty-five meters. When the warrior hits an enemy he immediately comes to a halt, releasing a burst of force energy that deals X damage and freezes the target on the spot for two seconds.

 

That is a terrible rough draft, but you get the idea. This way tanks could intercept the warrior for their healers, yet the ability gives some great way to catch up to a target. Collision mechanics aren't really a thing though, so an AoE target marker would work to. Make it like the leap in WoW, where the warrior can actually decide where to land.

 

And also add another utility:

 

Dexterity

Master Strike/Blade Dance can be channeled while moving.

 

Unyielding Warrior

Ravage can be channeled while moving.

 

It's a core DPS ability. We need to be able to follow our target, not just root it. Roots (like the utility currently available) break too easy for it to be viable. There should be a chance to escape, but not without putting in a hard stun CD or some tricks.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Alssaran

[DarkSaberMaster]

 

About what?

 

I'll take the bait. You're an accomplished forumite. I'm pretty sure you can figure out why I said what I said. In fact, I'm pretty sure you know why I said what I said.

[Karkais]

I got to agree with this ^

 

Changing utilities seems rather poorly thought out. Gaining 5 levels to just to get back something you have had for over a year and all under the guise of power restraint? I don't but it.

 

Indeed. Its hard to find something positive to say about the changes, since the intent seems to be to avoid giving us any actual improvements with the extra levels. In other words, no extra skill points. And to this date in my opinion my warrior has too few skillful/master utility points to begin with.

 

Level cap raise where you bend over backwards to make sure our characters don't actually improve is extremely lame. It just shows even more clearly what kind of cash grab this whole thing is.

 

ALSO: uncontrolled direct line dash is a stupid idea in my opinion. Both in terms of flavor and mechanics. Shouldve at least made it a leap..

Edited September 5, 2015 by Karkais

[Reno_Tarshil]

I'll take the bait. You're an accomplished forumite. I'm pretty sure you can figure out why I said what I said. In fact, I'm pretty sure you know why I said what I said.

 

You're not making any sense. Do you have an issue with what I said?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Indeed. Its hard to find something positive to say about the changes, since the intent seems to be to avoid giving us any actual improvements with the extra levels. In other words, no extra skill points. And to this date in my opinion my warrior has too few skillful/master utility points to begin with.

 

Level cap raise where you bend over backwards to make sure our characters don't actually improve is extremely lame. It just shows even more clearly what kind of cash grab this whole thing is.

 

ALSO: uncontrolled direct line dash is a stupid idea in my opinion. Both in terms of flavor and mechanics. Shouldve at least made it a leap..

 

Leap as in another charge or leap as in Heroic Leap?

[Karkais]

Leap as in another charge or leap as in Heroic Leap?

 

I mean in terms of animation. I don't know if there even is a way to make an animation of such a move look like it makes sense. I have used number of such dashes in marvel heroes MMO and they all kinda suck, and they certainly don't look remotely believable. It makes no sense for the character to dash through the enemies into open space rather than at the enemy.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Karkais

[Reno_Tarshil]

I mean in terms of animation. I don't know if there even is a way to make an animation of such a move look like it makes sense. I have used number of such dashes in marvel heroes MMO and they all kinda suck, and they certainly don't look remotely believable. It makes no sense for the character to dash through the enemies into open space rather than at the enemy.

 

Flying Serpent Kick from the Monk Class in WoW makes you do a flying kick in a straight line when you activate it and then you can choose to use it again mid flight to stop and crash into the ground doing a bit of AoE. So something like this is possible.

[REPtrooperONE]

I'm begging you...please don't rename Master Strike to "Blade Dance." That's like, if you had to rename Ravage, renaming is "Angry Twirl." It's just king of insulting and immature, for lack of a better word. Why rename it at all? I must have missed the forum dedicated to the outrage players had about the confusing name of one of their top DPS abilities. You really couldn't find a more prevalent issue to focus your time on? Come on.

[Raansu]

That's the same problem. Characters should not get weaker as they level. But in this game, they've basically decided what "endgame balance" is supposed to look like, and rather than trying to scale things to improvement, they instead just make it so you just have to keep re-earning the last 5 levels.

 

They could maintain the balance just as well by leaving the level caps where they are.

 

I don't disagree but this is unfortunately how vertical scaling works and this game was designed with that intent and its very difficult to change that design. When a game has vertical scaling there has to be a reset button eventually. Horizontal scaling doesn't have this problem and when done correctly is a far superior design. FFXI did it for 10 years keeping the cap at 75 and ALL end game content remained relevant for the entire time. Sadly they decided to raise the cap to 99 for some weird reason and it killed the game.

[Sarfux]

Not 5 posts in and there are already those complaining about how it's "disappointing". God, I love mmo forums.

 

Awesome changes. Can't wait for this expansion! When you redo the stuff PLEASE TELL ME you have made it so concealment operatives can dual wield blades. Please please please!! *down on knees begging*

[Frybert]

Changing Master Strike into Blade Dance is slightly less disappointing than turning Dueling Dragons into Dragon Challenge.

[Raansu]

Changing Master Strike into Blade Dance is slightly less disappointing than turning Dueling Dragons into Dragon Challenge.

 

I'm whatever about the name, I just find the reason for the name change to be insulting.

[Bugattiboy]

snip

 

Let me guess, vertical scaling is easier to implement and requires less work, right?

[NoahRedden]

Next is Imperial Agent/Smuggler, then Bounty Hunter/Trooper, then Inquisitor/Consular!

 

.......

[Faelandaea]

stuff

 

Comparing games that are not even on the same level is like comparing apples to oranges. STO has such simple polys and graphics and environment it cannot be compared to an MMO with an environment such as SWTOR. I play both games as well, but it is better to compare MMO games that use at least the same style, such as FFXIV or something like that.

 

Either way - drivers aren't everything. my computer is VERY low specs and VERY low end and it runs SWTOR smooth as glass.

 

As for everyone else - ***? You are sitting here whining and crying about the name of a skill when there are much bigger issues that need to be addressed than a stupid skill name. I could care less what they call a skill. If it functions, it functions. Sometimes I think people in these threads just hop on the bandwagon of whining just to troll. I can almost guarentee that when you are in game smashing the enemy you aren't sitting there going "OMG I HATE THIS SKILL NAME!" Nope. You crack your knuckles and smile as you think "Hehe I just killed that guy."

Edited September 5, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Kaizersan]

Well we'll see. I want more info on the new ability. Like how controllable or uncontrollable is it.

 

They have already told you how it works read the text it pretty much tells you it works like Op roll where you move in a straight line instantly

[Raansu]

Let me guess, vertical scaling is easier to implement and requires less work, right?

 

*shrug* No idea. I think most MMO's just do it because it worked well for WoW. Few games do horizontal scaling and the only MMO I have experience with it was with FFXI and they did it very well.

[BlkBug]

before you do the 4.0 you need to fix what's broken first, instead of adding onto of a shoddy foundation. computer is 2 yrs old

since patch 3.3 the game in 75 percent unplayable due to frame rate drops down to 3.5 to 10.1fps within 20 minutes of logging into the game..i know it's not my system all drivers are up to date, and i am able to play STAR TREK ONLINE without any problems at all..The foundation of the game needs to be solid before you add a 2nd story..

i'm trying to come up with good reasons to stay a sub but right now i don't see any reason to, i'm sure STO would like me

to be a sub instead F2p..I'll give it a year and this game will be dead in the water due to all the problems that you all will not

fix that you all know about..Then maybe Disney/Lucas will give it to UBI SOFT .They could do a hell of a better job that this

bunch can do...

 

*facepalm*

1) um gotta say it is your system, STO is no where near graphic intense as ToR is, my nieces 8600 GTX can handle STO with no problem and that card is 5+ years old, I know because it was my old card when I started playing STO and I had no issues, maybe try playing this game on something other than a multi media card and you will be able to play and add some RAM like 8 GB+ my MoBo & CPU is 5+ years old the only upgrade I have done in the past year is my graphic card and RAM and now ToR runs beautiful

 

2) UBI SOFT can not make Star Wars stories like BW can they would foul it up worse so no to that suggestion as well

 

3) to all the others who think these new changes are the end of the world maybe wait and see if this new ability will be useless, granted I am not a PvP player like most are in the forums but also you are only 10% of the player base who knows maybe the rest of us will like this, if you think it is so bad start a petition and get players who don't read the forums to sign it and just maybe you will get notice finally instead of ignored because again you are not the entire player base of this game only the ones that complain when you don't like something you see.

[Kaizersan]

I'm personally not very impressed with these changes. I'm still at a loss as to when I'd actually use mad dash, let alone where I'm going to put it on my bars.

 

My suggestion would be to make improvements to existing abilities and pack some of the mobility into one of the abilities.

 

Make changes to Saber throw so the min range is reduced, the max range is slightly increased and it bounces between three targets.

 

Make master strike channel while moving.

 

Give force sweep an additional frontal cone effect.

 

that's simple you use dash when you are knocked backed or your force leap is on cool down there are plenty of uses you just got to be creative.

[BrintoSFJ]

So basically now we will be playing focus/rage until 42 before switching to Vengeance/Vigilance, 1 more level grind won't be a big difference. But disappointing thing here for me is that i was hoping we would get shien form at 10 and vengeance/vigilance would become viable from level 10.

 

On top of that we see some abilities are being pushed back 1-3 levels. You are pushing back utility point just to make sure we get choice at 65 instead of giving more choice and utility point at 65. And your reasoning is to prevent excessive power inflation, i don't get it, not at all, if we are still the same as 60 at 65 what is the point of level increase?

[Lord_of_Mu]

that's simple you use dash when you are knocked backed or your force leap is on cool down there are plenty of uses you just got to be creative.

 

Sure, but I already put my back to walls or solid objects to counter knock backs, been doing it for years. Creative solution was found and applied to that problem long ago.

[Belegnole]

So basically now we will be playing focus/rage until 42 before switching to Vengeance/Vigilance, 1 more level grind won't be a big difference. But disappointing thing here for me is that i was hoping we would get shien form at 10 and vengeance/vigilance would become viable from level 10.

 

On top of that we see some abilities are being pushed back 1-3 levels. You are pushing back utility point just to make sure we get choice at 65 instead of giving more choice and utility point at 65. And your reasoning is to prevent excessive power inflation, i don't get it, not at all, if we are still the same as 60 at 65 what is the point of level increase?

 

absolutely none. In fact it takes away the reason for many to even try to level. The little prizes are what makes the grind worth it for some. Telling them that now they have to spend even more time to get the same things they already have is ...well, laughable.