I'm Getting Tired of the Bads

[offence]

The ammount of bad players this season has reached NEW heights , idk if it's still the 12xp class story bonus or whatever is driving them to join warzones while ignoring the chat box , every command and simply say " don't care " when you try to guide them. This community is worse than dota's atm yes I said it.

 

Bads everywhere.

[Sepruzzo]

I need to vent about the absolute terribads pubside on Harbinger. I remember a time when Pubs were formidable and at worst respectable in losses during warzones, but these days it's just faceroll after faceroll after faceroll for imps.

 

I get on teams where 4 of the 6 dps do under 200k damage and barely hit 300 dps. Games with too many healers, not enough healers, sages who facetank snipers and pt's, people who don't know how to kite and just get globaled out of spawn, AFK'ers, and just overall clueless people.

 

With the exception of maybe 2 or 3 guilds and a handful of players within said guilds, the average Pub pug is an absolute nightmare.

 

I can't get my weeklys done on my commando, sage, or vanguard or anything pub related. It. Is. God. Awful.

 

Pubs have been decent during certain time frames recently, and I try to queue during them, but the last week or so there are just no words to describe the level of bad. It's depressing, infuriating, frustrating, and I get a sick, nauseating sensation in the pit of my stomach whenever I log into a pub toon and hit the "queue" button. It's physically uncomfortable and truly unsettling.

 

For the love of Giradda, can some decent pubs queue up and win some games?

[Sepruzzo]

But 8 man solo ranked should be tried out... A lot of use are bored to death of arena...

 

I'm in favor of removing 4v4 arena except for group ranked and would love an 8 man solo ranked format. It would give more viability to classes like merc and sniper who do poorly in arenas simply because of the format and be overall more fun to play. And in regs, arenas can be even worse when you have the 3 healer and tank comps or some nonsense like that. I probably leave 2/3rds of reg arenas because of the ridiculous comp imbalance. Plus, I prefer objectives over 4dps death match arenas where the winner is often determined by comp or luck. Or in a healer matchup where one healer is superior to the other and you know it's gg beforehand. Or you get a sorc vs merc or operative. Unless the sorc is terrible, they will win.

 

Side note, I tried sorc healing for the first time since 3.0 and holy faceroll, batman, it is absurdly powerful and easy. I did 500 more hps rolling my forehead across the keyboard than my merc who I've been healing with for ages and have a great feel for.

[wadecounty]

8v8 solo ranked would never work for a number of reasons. Firstly, the coordination required would be far greater than in arenas, so expecting 8 random players to work together on a level required to make the warzone competitive is probably not going to happen. Secondly, the ability to sync queue on the lower population faction would be far, far greater with this format, and since 8v8 are more focused on teamwork and objectives, the sync queue team would have a far greater advantage than they already receive in 4v4 solo ranked.

 

On top of this, it would take quite a bit longer for 8v8 to pop than 4v4, and 4v4's already can take quite a bit of time on most servers.

 

So yeah, just not a viable option. Honestly until the factions are merged for the purposes of any type of solo ranked gametype, you'll never have fair competitive games as queue syncing will always happen on the less populated faction.

[DomiSotto]

@Huttball (the thread advanced past it, but I am curious):

 

I understand what you are saying about trying to gain the mid back out of spawn, but one unfortunate thing is that the spawn releases just as the other team scores, so the other guys would have already gained a control of the ball by the time you jump into the pit to go around.

 

I find it strange when people don’t like Huttball, because it seemed to have been designed to address the things people do not like about other zones. You don’t leave a man behind to guard; you play your AC rather than your role, using a lot more of your abilities; it is highly mobile zone; the score is never truly hopeless; the environment is actually quite fun.

 

My biggest problem with Huttball is passing and selecting the guy with the ball. I wish that the player with the ball got a debuff on the Ops bars so you could select him/her easier. I keep wondering if s/he can be selected by clicking on the spike itself.

[Draqsko]

@Huttball (the thread advanced past it, but I am curious):

 

I understand what you are saying about trying to gain the mid back out of spawn, but one unfortunate thing is that the spawn releases just as the other team scores, so the other guys would have already gained a control of the ball by the time you jump into the pit to go around.

 

I find it strange when people don’t like Huttball, because it seemed to have been designed to address the things people do not like about other zones. You don’t leave a man behind to guard; you play your AC rather than your role, using a lot more of your abilities; it is highly mobile zone; the score is never truly hopeless; the environment is actually quite fun.

 

My biggest problem with Huttball is passing and selecting the guy with the ball. I wish that the player with the ball got a debuff on the Ops bars so you could select him/her easier. I keep wondering if s/he can be selected by clicking on the spike itself.

 

Respawn is on a timer, not on a score so that's only a slim chance. Even still, better to ignore 2 scores and get to mid if you have no hope of stopping them or knocking them into the pit. On my scoundrel, don't even bother since he doesn't have a knockback. Other classes I'll try a knockback or pull to get them someplace bad.

 

They do get a debuff on the Ops bar, it just gets pushed off sometimes, well most times. Generally speaking, if I know my team has the ball and I can't see anyone with the ball debuff, I target the guy with the most dots on him, chances are he's the ball carrier.

[DomiSotto]

How does the huttball debuff look like & is it debuff or buff? Edited August 25, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Icykill_]

8v8 solo ranked would never work for a number of reasons. Firstly, the coordination required would be far greater than in arenas, so expecting 8 random players to work together on a level required to make the warzone competitive is probably not going to happen. Secondly, the ability to sync queue on the lower population faction would be far, far greater with this format, and since 8v8 are more focused on teamwork and objectives, the sync queue team would have a far greater advantage than they already receive in 4v4 solo ranked.

 

On top of this, it would take quite a bit longer for 8v8 to pop than 4v4, and 4v4's already can take quite a bit of time on most servers.

 

So yeah, just not a viable option. Honestly until the factions are merged for the purposes of any type of solo ranked gametype, you'll never have fair competitive games as queue syncing will always happen on the less populated faction.

 

While I agree it would be harder to coordinate than arena... It would also give those more advanced people who love objectives, but hate arena, to play a higher lvl of pvp than just regs... Regs are so full of bads now it is ridiculous... There are plenty of excellent objective players there... But they get watered down each match by the bads... Giving us a ranked queue would allow us to play some competitive pvp, with minimal bads... Most of us know the tactics and our roles already... So don't require as much coordination as you think... I get good teams of objective players occasionally and rarely do we have issues with coordination... Most of us are situationally aware of what needs to be done and we communicate... It would also give every class a chance to participate in a higher lvl of pvp, instead of just the FOTM arena classes... Plus a lot of those non FOTM classes do extremely well, if not better than the FOTM classes in object pvp...

The idea would need to be fleshed out some more as far as the ranking system or rewards... It would need to be different to Arena... There would have to be stricter entry requirements possibly... ie a higher lvl of Valor (which should be legacy bound)... This would stop a lot of the bads from entering or atleast give them more time to learn in regs... People who play a higher lvl of pvp don't put up with fools... While there are fools around... They usually get the message if they do the wrong thing in ranked or they stop queuing and go back to regs...

[Icykill_]

@Huttball (the thread advanced past it, but I am curious):

 

I understand what you are saying about trying to gain the mid back out of spawn, but one unfortunate thing is that the spawn releases just as the other team scores, so the other guys would have already gained a control of the ball by the time you jump into the pit to go around.

 

I find it strange when people don’t like Huttball, because it seemed to have been designed to address the things people do not like about other zones. You don’t leave a man behind to guard; you play your AC rather than your role, using a lot more of your abilities; it is highly mobile zone; the score is never truly hopeless; the environment is actually quite fun.

 

My biggest problem with Huttball is passing and selecting the guy with the ball. I wish that the player with the ball got a debuff on the Ops bars so you could select him/her easier. I keep wondering if s/he can be selected by clicking on the spike itself.

 

I always have my focus target up and have a hot key to select players... Like "tab target"... Then you can either mouse click pass and it the ball usually goes to the selected player... Same thing with the ball carrier...

It is a shame there isn't an option to just click the coloured ball spike to select...

As someone else mentioned... The respawn timer has nothing to do with scoring... Although sometimes it seem like it...

I've asked over and over for the respawn timer to be removed in Hutt Ball or at least reduced significantly... Hutt Ball is a sport... It's completely different to all other WZs... It does not require a respawn timer...

[Icykill_]

I was *never* meaning a "body wall" ! The wall that I meant consists entirely of DPS classes !

Stupid to think I meant a "body" wall in the first place ...

 

If they can't even run straight through a bunch of dps to jump off that ledge and escape without getting killed... they have no right to be in pvp... They shouldn't even queue... Ever... They just aren't up to it

If they jump down and fight... Then they are just bad and deserve to get smashed... Those dps are only trolling the line like a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy because people feed them...

[Icykill_]

I'm glad you like it cuz I hate hutball, Id be ok if they removed it from the game.

 

Sacrilege and blasphemy... Go wash your mouth out... LoL...

 

I do understand how you feel though... I feel the same about arena... LoL

 

The solution is to split the queues... We've been asking this since launch and more so since Arena was introduced... There are whole threads on how to do it so it would work, so I won't repeat it here... But I don't think removing any is a good idea... As it stands we have little in the way of variety... Removing any would upset a lot of people who may enjoy a particular map

[offence]

I need to vent about the absolute terribads pubside on Harbinger. I remember a time when Pubs were formidable and at worst respectable in losses during warzones, but these days it's just faceroll after faceroll after faceroll for imps.

 

I get on teams where 4 of the 6 dps do under 200k damage and barely hit 300 dps. Games with too many healers, not enough healers, sages who facetank snipers and pt's, people who don't know how to kite and just get globaled out of spawn, AFK'ers, and just overall clueless people.

 

With the exception of maybe 2 or 3 guilds and a handful of players within said guilds, the average Pub pug is an absolute nightmare.

 

I can't get my weeklys done on my commando, sage, or vanguard or anything pub related. It. Is. God. Awful.

 

Pubs have been decent during certain time frames recently, and I try to queue during them, but the last week or so there are just no words to describe the level of bad. It's depressing, infuriating, frustrating, and I get a sick, nauseating sensation in the pit of my stomach whenever I log into a pub toon and hit the "queue" button. It's physically uncomfortable and truly unsettling.

 

For the love of Giradda, can some decent pubs queue up and win some games?

 

This exact thing is happening on TOFN pub side and it's worse than ever since imps dominated the ranked yolo's , unranked was a 60-50 pub side game atleast a few months ago. Nowdays when you que as a pub you get atleast 2 imp healers on the opposing team.

 

Unless bioware steps up and enables a megaserver or merge PvP ,there won't be a future for this game mode that's a fact it's getting to the point that when the team loses momentum in the first 2 minutes aka losing objectives getting scored everyone MASS leaves the warzone.

 

PvP in this game is officialy dead.

Edited August 25, 2015 by offence

[Xanas]

This exact thing is happening on TOFN pub side and it's worse than ever since imps dominated the ranked yolo's , unranked was a 60-50 pub side game atleast a few months ago. Nowdays when you que as a pub you get atleast 2 imp healers on the opposing team.

 

Unless bioware steps up and enables a megaserver or merge PvP ,there won't be a future for this game mode that's a fact it's getting to the point that when the team loses momentum in the first 2 minutes aka losing objectives getting scored everyone MASS leaves the warzone.

 

PvP in this game is officialy dead.

 

I am from TOFN, played my guardian last night(unranked), It was hell. Loss after loss after loss. Thing is this does not happen every day... Then I played my imp, a jug, win after win lol. I think all the good players (at least the majority) moved over to the imp side. Imps appear to have a lot more premades just as well.

 

What I hate the most is HOW I lost. Its not just the healers, usually we had 1 to (even if the imps had 2) but how people played. In ACW, 3 people at grass and the bloody thing get's capped. In Novare Coast people death matching in mid ignoring everything else. Huttball, nobody focusing the flag carrier. Its more then this but let's leave it at that.

[offence]

I am from TOFN, played my guardian last night(unranked), It was hell. Loss after loss after loss. Thing is this does not happen every day... Then I played my imp, a jug, win after win lol. I think all the good players (at least the majority) moved over to the imp side. Imps appear to have a lot more premades just as well.

 

What I hate the most is HOW I lost. Its not just the healers, usually we had 1 to (even if the imps had 2) but how people played. In ACW, 3 people at grass and the bloody thing get's capped. In Novare Coast people death matching in mid ignoring everything else. Huttball, nobody focusing the flag carrier. Its more then this but let's leave it at that.

 

Yes Novare Coast and Hutball deatmatching MID ignoring objectives when you PM them to focus the ball or call shots on general i got this replied : " go find a real pvp game fake *** " .

 

Nah I also switched to my IMPs sin .. haha lost everything there too in the span of 1 hour from swapping factions and logging out. Idk it seems PVP needs to be avoided on the weekends and never play early mornings .

 

Every game I play at peak times night hours I smash everything on my pubs anything up to that is a certain loss and im not even gonna get into the pub solo ranked arena que it's a nightmare.

 

It's getting to the point that the players are putting me off the game and this never happened since EARLY BETA . The ammount of clueless , mass clickers , ppl can't use stims , can't call objectives , can't defend a node with 5 players just zergs and mid fights it's too much. Im hoping everything will stabilize when this 12xp ends.

Edited August 25, 2015 by offence

[DomiSotto]

I always have my focus target up and have a hot key to select players... Like "tab target"... Then you can either mouse click pass and it the ball usually goes to the selected player... Same thing with the ball carrier...

 

Oh, I tab target and I focus the guy who is more likely to have the ball, but if there is a lot of people crowding the ball carrier, I stand there trying to pull, and I have no idea who has it, or can't click on him with a mouse pointer. So, if there is a buff or debuff picture, I really would appreciate it! I minimize the buffs, so I am wondering if it is the buff so that is why I never seen it since I started paying attention to these things.

 

With the pass, 80% of the time I try to pass it gets intercepted.

[Draqsko]

How does the huttball debuff look like & is it debuff or buff?

 

It's a debuff and appears on that bar, has a very long tick down (whatever time is left until the ball explodes), and looks like the same icon you use to pass the huttball, spiky ball icon.

 

Most of the problem now is that it gets pushed off or becomes hard to see, depending on your UI settings, the buff and debuff bar can overlap now sometimes cover up information. I know I had that issue when 3.0 came out and I had to adjust some settings in the UI for those bars.

[Draqsko]

With the pass, 80% of the time I try to pass it gets intercepted.

 

Passing takes experience, there's really no good way to pass the ball and really where and how you pass will change depending on the circumstances.

 

Always remember these tips with passing:

1) the person closest to the center of the passing circle will be the one most likely to get it, however anyone using a leap or charge at someone in the center of the circle can intercept the ball if used at the right time.

2) there's a slight delay between when you pass the ball and when the person receives it, double tapping pass while having your target selected can result in passing behind your target if he's running. Lead your target in these cases, you don't want him to stop or slow down since the other will read it, but lead him where the other team can't simply run into the circle closer to the center than he is.

3) And finally.. if there is no good pass to make, don't make it. If you are on their side of the field and they control mid, eat it. If your team has mid, or you are on your side of the field, spike it. Always look to put the ball the farthest possible place from the opponent's scoring line as possible if you cannot score, or pass and you are going to die.

[AlrikFassbauer]

For the love of Giradda, can some decent pubs queue up and win some games?

 

Won't happen. They are having so much more fun destroying everything on imp side.

Edited August 25, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[CheaterLL]

Very useful in huttball:

Ctrl + Tab tabs through your allies just like Tab does with enemies.

[Technohic]

Very useful in huttball:

Ctrl + Tab tabs through your allies just like Tab does with enemies.

 

I bound mine to "~" as it is right above that. Didn't like the extra press to cycle friendlies when I played a healer for the limited time I have and found it more useful than I thought

[masterceil]

I bound mine to "~" as it is right above that. Didn't like the extra press to cycle friendlies when I played a healer for the limited time I have and found it more useful than I thought

 

Made mine shift+tab on my healer, since shift+1-6 are my heal abilities anyway : p

[RaGiNDon]

im not a complete pvp noob, i am new to pvp on swtor. I find most of the the objective arenas to be very poorly set up and even poorer at making it clear what you need to do. my first two weeks of pvp were a constant night maire of non stop butthurt. i will never ever appreciate huttball, so i will let that ride sports have no place in a war game this is not one of your ea sports titles get over it. but as for most of the other objective arenas i find that they are very poorly designed and there is little to no way for the new player to get a clue without much butthurt, frustration and constant belittlement from experienced players.

Now i have a couple of original harbinger founders that i play with daily who tell me what i needt o be doin on these objective maps but most players dont have that. The biggest problem is playing pvp while not in voice coms is at best a bad idea. pvp is almost impossible with pugs, and hard with groups that dont have a singular voice coms... i use rc only cuz its easier to use then ts , free, and more reliable, not to mention it is smaller program so it runs better beside the game then ts3 does. voice coms are a must but only if your smart enuff to only play pvp in groups. then atleast yuou have a cpl guys who are on the same page.

when i am on a map and get lost in the objective usually on the void star i always revert to deathmatch mindset. why becuz it usually atleast gets me to the action til i figure out whats up.

So yes to all the god players the bads are hard to work with but the fault is not all theirs. the fault is yours and eas too....ea and bio ware have made the objectives obscure, and to the newer players the objectives get lost in the overwhelming info being shoved down your thtroat all at once. To the experienced pl,ayers its your bad for not finding the newbs who will listen and taking an interest in them. to the newb well just keep playing and maybe one of them will notice you and help. and that is how it is. devs make the objectives clearer, to the experienced player make note of who you play with and look for new players with promise. newbs find sum1 who knows what they are doing and listen to them and let them guide you. problem solved.

[jauvtus]

im not a complete pvp noob, i am new to pvp on swtor. I find most of the the objective arenas to be very poorly set up and even poorer at making it clear what you need to do. my first two weeks of pvp were a constant night maire of non stop butthurt. i will never ever appreciate huttball, so i will let that ride sports have no place in a war game this is not one of your ea sports titles get over it. but as for most of the other objective arenas i find that they are very poorly designed and there is little to no way for the new player to get a clue without much butthurt, frustration and constant belittlement from experienced players.

Now i have a couple of original harbinger founders that i play with daily who tell me what i needt o be doin on these objective maps but most players dont have that. The biggest problem is playing pvp while not in voice coms is at best a bad idea. pvp is almost impossible with pugs, and hard with groups that dont have a singular voice coms... i use rc only cuz its easier to use then ts , free, and more reliable, not to mention it is smaller program so it runs better beside the game then ts3 does. voice coms are a must but only if your smart enuff to only play pvp in groups. then atleast yuou have a cpl guys who are on the same page.

when i am on a map and get lost in the objective usually on the void star i always revert to deathmatch mindset. why becuz it usually atleast gets me to the action til i figure out whats up.

So yes to all the god players the bads are hard to work with but the fault is not all theirs. the fault is yours and eas too....ea and bio ware have made the objectives obscure, and to the newer players the objectives get lost in the overwhelming info being shoved down your thtroat all at once. To the experienced pl,ayers its your bad for not finding the newbs who will listen and taking an interest in them. to the newb well just keep playing and maybe one of them will notice you and help. and that is how it is. devs make the objectives clearer, to the experienced player make note of who you play with and look for new players with promise. newbs find sum1 who knows what they are doing and listen to them and let them guide you. problem solved.

 

I had NOONE to teach me any of the wzs. On top of it, this was my first MMO, I didnt know objective pvp at all before. It took me 10 seconds to understand the objectives for each wz in the game. You know, the loading screen lists everything you need to care about, and even if you didnt read it, the announcer tells you what to do. Every single match. So it's kinda hard to believe these 'I dont know what to do, noone told me' excuses.

[EmilmcUgly]

Couple things.

 

I know that winning a WZ means more commendations, and also means reaching your daily and weekly goals faster. Does it also help improve your ranking in ranked?

 

I only ask because it seems silly to me to ever leave a WZ mid-game just because you've got some bad players on your team. I've been on some epic losing streaks (more of those than winning streaks, it seems to me), but at least when my team loses, I still come out with some comms.

 

If you've already got all the gear you want, maybe that doesn't matter to you. So my other reason for staying in the game: hell, even if we're getting creamed, I can still play. I can still practice my stealth tank stuff, which I'm still really bad at, or (if I'm playing my jugg) see if I can get some one on one. I can still chase medals. Etc.

 

Second point: it seems like the ranked queue always moves really slow. Long wait times. I'm on Shadowlands - maybe it's different on other servers, but it seems like I see the same complaints from everybody on this forum. Not enough players! So which is worse? Playing with "bads," or waiting an hour for the queue to pop? I'd rather have a faster queue.

 

For the record, I'm not one of the bads (as they've been described here), but I'm not one of the really goods, either. I play for objectives first, medals second, and I get my butt kicked a lot, but I keep those taunts on constant cooldown.

[DomiSotto]

Folks, thank you for the tips on the Huttball debuff and passing. I'll check it out next time I get a match.

 

I am not as precocious as the poster who mentioned that objectives came easily to him/her as s/he loaded, but I watched the videos right after trying the zones/asked questions. My problems all lie with the personal inability to muster the essential gameplay. Tbh, it's the likeliest root cause of most folks' problems. I think we all load warzones with the intention to do well.

Edited August 25, 2015 by DomiSotto