For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[Xoelloe]

This is what James Ohlen, the Game Director for SWTOR had to say in regards to why Bioware has begun to really key in on solo play story with KotFE, Shadow of Revan, and even the new solo-mode ops coming with 4.0

 

 

 

For many who are sour that Bioware is focusing too much on story and making this mostly a solo-player experience at the cost to the fans, well, that simply isn't true because Mr. Ohlen just said that not only have players within the community been asking for more story but based off of how a majority of the players play SWTOR, it isn't the OPS, Flashpoints, GSF, or Warzones that people play the most, it is the level 1-50 class stories!

 

So for those who think that this is another mistake that Bioware is taking with SWTOR and that people will leave this game in droves because of the focus on solo play, then you are wrong. In fact, this expansion will satisfy a majority of their player base! In fact, the only reason why I am here and back as a subscriber is because I am excited for this new solo-friendly approach to SWTOR and while waiting for KotFE, I am leveling up a few characters that I will import into KotFE later this year.

 

I thought that I just point that out.

 

Bollocks.

 

Seriously, I am not going subscribe monthly to get a 4 hour playtime story I am not going to revisit again, while the mmo content of this game is going to be obsolete within a few months. The business model is wrong. EA abandoned this game for Battlefront. You can buy all the editions of Mass Effect for one month's worth of KOTFE subscription. Again, the business model they chose is wrong, it's entirely possible they will go downhill from november. We will see. I will subscribe until the october release, and see what happens.

[tmwfte]

Uh huh...that's realistic.

 

As has been evident in studio closures, downsizing, reshuffing, EA doesn't tolerate dead weight. If, as you say, there's not going to be any new group content, George Smith and his team are dead weight. Why do they still have jobs, eh? Better to tell them now that they're useless and should be looking at other studios' want ads.

[Savej]

^^THIS^^

 

I could not agree more. SWTOR had both...they seem to have given up on new group content though.

 

They haven't "given up" on group content but 1.25+ years with nothing (other then the Ziost fight) is a long time.

[TUXs]

As has been evident in studio closures, downsizing, reshuffing, EA doesn't tolerate dead weight. If, as you say, there's not going to be any new group content, George Smith and his team are dead weight. Why do they still have jobs, eh? Better to tell them now that they're useless and should be looking at other studios' want ads.

I never said there was never going to be more group content.

 

Again, George and his "team" seem to be as busy as the "PvP team", yet Bioware keeps the "PvP team" on the payroll...that kinda disproves your theory on keeping dead weight around.

[FerkWork]

Kill assassinating is wayyyy worse than plain old assassinating.

 

Your critiques won't hold much water until you L2consistency a little better. You can't be a savvy biz mgt. pro lecturing people in one thread and a naive noob in another. The scope of criticism is a lot broader than you're inferring but hey if cherry-picking suits your argument better sure.

 

Double no scope kill assassinate is even worse

[TUXs]

They haven't "given up" on group content but 1.25+ years with nothing (other then the Ziost fight) is a long time.

Correct...and that's what I mean as well. What they have planned for the future is anyone's guess...and "plans" mean nothing with Bioware...once it's live is when it counts. They've made too many announcements that never transpired (cross server PvP, new GSF ships, "better than cross server", unlimited WZ's for F2P) to trust their "plans" to do something...

[tmwfte]

I never said there was never going to be more group content.

 

Really?

 

^^THIS^^

 

I could not agree more. SWTOR had both...they seem to have given up on new group content though.

 

Because if they've given up on new group content, that kind of precludes the idea that there's going to be more group content.

 

Again, George and his "team" seem to be as busy as the "PvP team", yet Bioware keeps the "PvP team" on the payroll...that kinda disproves your theory on keeping dead weight around.

 

You think the balance adjustments do themselves? Any idea on how large the PvP team is? Any idea who the PvP team is? Since they've not done any new maps in a dog's age, the "PvP team" likely consists solely of animators and designers to do the rewards. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the same people who do the Cartel Market stuff. You already showed your ignorance of who the Operations and Flashpoints lead was, why should I believe anything you propose about other groups within the studio?

 

If there's no new group content, no new operations and flashpoints, once the scaling is done, you don't need them. Please inform George Smith of your doom and gloom.

[TUXs]

Really?

 

Because if they've given up on new group content, that kind of precludes the idea that there's going to be more group content.

 

You think the balance adjustments do themselves? Any idea on how large the PvP team is? Any idea who the PvP team is? Since they've not done any new maps in a dog's age, the "PvP team" likely consists solely of animators and designers to do the rewards. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the same people who do the Cartel Market stuff. You already showed your ignorance of who the Operations and Flashpoints lead was, why should I believe anything you propose about other groups within the studio?

 

If there's no new group content, no new operations and flashpoints, once the scaling is done, you don't need them. Please inform George Smith of your doom and gloom.

I think they're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I've never said they'll never release new group content again...but they have admittedly given up on it for this whole year, and as of right now, we have NO knowledge of anything new coming. I assume that in time it will, but right now, it's only speculation. The only thing we know for certain is that they have nothing new right now.

 

And it's not "doom and gloom"...I'm being realistic, not fanatically idealistic.

Edited August 17, 2015 by TUXs

[Reno_Tarshil]

Double no scope kill assassinate is even worse

 

360 Triple No Scope Knife Stab Kill

[tmwfte]

I think they're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I've never said they'll never release new group content again...but they have admittedly given up on it for this whole year, and as of right now, we have NO knowledge of anything new coming. I assume that in time it will, but right now, it's only speculation. The only thing we know for certain is that they have nothing new right now.

 

Keep moving those goalposts. Keep pushing them to make them fit what you "meant".

 

And it's not "doom and gloom"...I'm being realistic, not fanatically idealistic.

 

It is. You keep going on about no new group content, keep wearing down others who are waiting, hoping, expecting something and it helps torpedo any forward momentum that the game might have going into KotFE and out the other side, leading to a situation where there very well may not be any new group content ever. It's not realism, it very much is spreading a pessimistic doom and gloom atmosphere. "Wait and see" is realism, "given up on new group content" is pessimism.

[Joesixxpack]

keep going on about no new group content, keep wearing down others who are waiting, hoping, expecting something and it helps torpedo any forward momentum that the game might have going into KotFE and out the other side, leading to a situation where there very well may not be any new group content ever. It's not realism, it very much is spreading a pessimistic doom and gloom atmosphere. "Wait and see" is realism, "given up on new group content" is pessimism.

 

Damn, and you're complaining about what you think is doom and gloom in other people's posts?

 

PSA: Stop posting guys/gals! If you keep sharing individual perspectives YOU might be responsible if there's no group content later. Shaddap and wait until KOTFE gets here. It doesn't matter what BW's actually stated, or what you can reasonably speculate on or discuss based on your years of experience with this game and developer communications.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[tmwfte]

Damn, and you're complaining about what you think is doom and gloom in other people's posts?

 

PSA: Stop posting guys/gals! If you keep sharing individual perspectives YOU might be responsible if there's no group content later. Shaddap and wait until KOTFE gets here. It doesn't matter what BW's actually stated, or what you can reasonably speculate on or discuss based on your years of experience with this game and developer communications.

 

Nice strawman.

 

I thought you unsubbed?

[TUXs]

Keep moving those goalposts. Keep pushing them to make them fit what you "meant".

 

It is. You keep going on about no new group content, keep wearing down others who are waiting, hoping, expecting something and it helps torpedo any forward momentum that the game might have going into KotFE and out the other side, leading to a situation where there very well may not be any new group content ever. It's not realism, it very much is spreading a pessimistic doom and gloom atmosphere. "Wait and see" is realism, "given up on new group content" is pessimism.

I'm not moving goal posts - I'm trying to clarify my statements since they seem to have caused confusion with you.

 

Don't blame me for FE losing momentum. If it weren't for the dataminers out there, we'd know nothing about FE...and besides, I'm just a freaking customer...I pay to play the game...not promote SWTOR to the masses. EA and Bioware have marketing teams to do that...don't blame me for their failures.

 

Bioware is releasing an "Expansion" to their MMO, with NO group content (that we have been made aware of at least)...that's crazy imo. Contrary to what some believe, story has NOT been neglected. Story has been the focal point of nearly EVERY update. Makeb was story, CZ was story, Oricon was story, as were the Ops that came with it. Forged Alliances was as story centric as anything could be. 3.0 with Rishi and Yavin were also quite obviously story updates and Ziost was nothing but story as well....Now I understand that group story content isn't what some players had in mind, but to pretend story has been neglected in any way is ridiculous imo...we've ALWAYS had story updates...the only thing new about FE is that we're not getting the repeatable group content with it.

 

I'm not "doom and gloom" either...despite you repeating it. I'm being honest and truthful...not wishful and hopeful. Realism vs Optimism. I think the truth is better than false hype and hope...most players prefer honesty...not misleading hype.

[Joesixxpack]

Nice strawman.

 

I thought you unsubbed?

 

Haha, you're all over the place man. While you're looking for posts claiming I unsubbed check out what a strawman really is too.

[tmwfte]

I'm not moving goal posts - I'm trying to clarify my statements since they seem to have caused confusion with you.

 

There's nothing confusing about "given up on new group content". If that's not what you meant, say so, don't try to pretend that you meant "no new group content right now" and blame it on someone else's "confusion" over your own words. Don't lie and say that you've never said "no new group content".

 

Don't blame me for FE losing momentum. If it weren't for the dataminers out there, we'd know nothing about FE...and besides, I'm just a freaking customer...I pay to play the game...not promote SWTOR to the masses. EA and Bioware have marketing teams to do that...don't blame me for their failures.

 

Marketing failures. Heh. Smokescreen.

 

Bioware is releasing an "Expansion" to their MMO, with NO group content (that we have been made aware of at least)...that's crazy imo

 

What part of "at launch" is hard for you to understand?

 

Story has been the focal point of nearly EVERY update. Makeb was story, CZ was story, Oricon was story, as were the Ops that came with it. Forged Alliances was as story centric as anything could be. 3.0 with Rishi and Yavin were also quite obviously story updates and Ziost was nothing but story as well....Now I understand that group story content isn't what some players had in mind, but to pretend story has been neglected in any way is ridiculous imo...we've ALWAYS had story updates...the only thing new about FE is that we're not getting the repeatable group content with it.

 

In another thread you're going on about KotFE being about ONLY STORY to discredit people thinking flasphoints may be coming at some point during the expansion. Now flashpoints and operations are story. Hmm...you're flip-flopping all over the place, maybe it's you who can't keep it straight in your mind? Besides, you're now throwing in this smokescreen about "story" as your own personal bugbear to obfuscate that neither of us were talking about it in this argument. Keep throwing up more things to detract and derail the point.

 

I'm not "doom and gloom" either...despite you repeating it. I'm being honest and truthful...not wishful and hopeful. Realism vs Optimism. I think the truth is better than false hype and hope...most players prefer honesty...not misleading hype.

 

Keep thinking that. I find it funny that you seem to think that "wait and see" is false hype and hope, yet "given up on group content" is honest and truthful. "Wait and see" doesn't expect anything, just patience to well...wait and see. "Given up on group content" presupposes a forgone negative condition. But sure, it's not doom and gloom at all. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about what you're doing.

Edited August 17, 2015 by tmwfte

[tmwfte]

Haha, you're all over the place man. While you're looking for posts claiming I unsubbed check out what a strawman really is too.

 

Perhaps you should too, since what you've got in your "PSA" was never my argument.

 

Here's a nice easy link so you can understand what you did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Kurkina]

That is your OPINION!

 

If Bioware said the metrics pointed to more people playing OPS and Warzones and thus made that the focus of KotFE, I doubt you will be claiming that BIoware's interpretation of the metrics are wrong.

 

They are only wrong because they do not support your playstyle.

 

Nope, you still don't get it.

 

A lot of people USE story content on multiple characters to:

 

1 - get to the endgame

2 - do something in between Ops

 

This skews the metrics, making it look like those people are participating first and foremost in story, when in fact they are here for the endgame.

 

But they play (and subscribe) for the endgame. If the group endgame goes away, so will they and their contribution to the single-player story metrics.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Kurkina

[Joesixxpack]

Perhaps you should too, since what you've got in your "PSA" was never my argument.

 

Here's a nice easy link so you can understand what you did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

lol here's your reply.

[Andryah]

They haven't "given up" on group content but 1.25+ years with nothing (other then the Ziost fight) is a long time.

 

Accurate statement. Not many accurate statements in this thread, mostly just hyperbole, exaggeration, and speculation.

[Kurkina]

Again, to me this all just seems like an attack on solo-players and somehow believing that we aren't legitimate consumers who can carry this game.

 

You are not and you will not.

 

But neither are Ops people, and neither are PvPers.

 

This game's long term health and viability up until now has depended on diversification. Everyone found something to do in-game, and dabbled in all the other elements as well. Focus too much on one of these elements and you lose your other niches and the game suffers.

 

Story/solo people, for the health of the game, it is YOU who should be screaming at BW to develop group content. Because without it and the players who support it, the game will die. And the same could be said of ANY of the niches.

[Derrien]

This is what James Ohlen, the Game Director for SWTOR had to say in regards to why Bioware has begun to really key in on solo play story with KotFE, Shadow of Revan, and even the new solo-mode ops coming with 4.0

 

I have a question going all the way back to the OP.

 

Where did you find this info about ops getting a solo mode I have not heard or seen anthing about that.

 

Also why do people think its a bad thing for them to put a focus on story content for a while, For me personally I do play this game as much for the story itsself as for the community of my friends that I play with if I am stuck doing one thing all the time I burn out and get board as many other people do also. I do agree however that story does not need to be all they focus on because there is a flaw to story based play that does not change its replay value becomes nill the more you do it. Forinstance I have 16 toons all working to 55 to 60 content about half are done and I can almost quote you the conversation content as I go LOL because it never changes. I wish we had a more dynamic world where what we do actually matters. I also would love to see some type of dynamic world pvp system. I came from the world type pvp of SWG and yes I know these are two diggerent types of games but why cant we have some type of world pvp system or even a larger scale battle ground where what we do matters that I think is the failing of this game is the repitition story, battlegrounds ops its alays the same thing over and over no choices and no variation. Thats just my two cents.

[TUXs]

There's nothing confusing about "given up on new group content". If that's not what you meant, say so, don't try to pretend that you meant "no new group content right now" and blame it on someone else's "confusion" over your own words. Don't lie and say that you've never said "no new group content".

 

Marketing failures. Heh. Smokescreen.

 

What part of "at launch" is hard for you to understand?

 

In another thread you're going on about KotFE being about ONLY STORY to discredit people thinking flasphoints may be coming at some point during the expansion. Now flashpoints and operations are story. Hmm...you're flip-flopping all over the place, maybe it's you who can't keep it straight in your mind? Besides, you're now throwing in this smokescreen about "story" as your own personal bugbear to obfuscate that neither of us were talking about it in this argument. Keep throwing up more things to detract and derail the point.

 

Keep thinking that. I find it funny that you seem to think that "wait and see" is false hype and hope, yet "given up on group content" is honest and truthful. "Wait and see" doesn't expect anything, just patience to well...wait and see. "Given up on group content" presupposes a forgone negative condition. But sure, it's not doom and gloom at all. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about what you're doing.

If you know something I don't, please tell me. When is the new group content coming specifically? I assume they'll make more in time, but right now, neither you nor I have any idea what that time-frame is. As of right now, there is no new group content that I know of.

 

And yes...if FE is losing steam as you say, that's a marketing failure...not mine.

 

I understand "at launch" perfectly well.

 

You're confused about something if you think I'm flip flopping. Ops and FPs are absolutely story driven...I've maintained that since day 1.

 

"Wait and see" is silly to do when they have flat out said that FE is FOCUSED ONLY ON STORY, and they then went on to explain that it's single player only, can't be done as a group...what is there to wait for exactly? What do you think they're hiding? They have told you exactly what to expect...and told you what not to expect even.

 

And stop making this personal...I'm treating you with respect, I expect you to do the same.

[tmwfte]

If you know something I don't, please tell me. When is the new group content coming specifically? I assume they'll make more in time, but right now, neither you nor I have any idea what that time-frame is. As of right now, there is no new group content that I know of.

 

Wait and see.

 

You're confused about something if you think I'm flip flopping. Ops and FPs are absolutely story driven...I've maintained that since day 1.

 

You're using ONLY STORY as a means to discount the possibility of flashpoints and operations. You do it again below. If flashpoints and operations fit within your idea of STORY CONTENT, then KotFE focusing ONLY ON STORY wouldn't preclude the possibility of new FPs (which you seem entirely against even the possibility of something coming).

 

"Wait and see" is silly to do when they have flat out said that FE is FOCUSED ONLY ON STORY, and they then went on to explain that it's single player only, can't be done as a group...what is there to wait for exactly? What do you think they're hiding? They have told you exactly what to expect...and told you what not to expect even.

 

So now it's not ONLY STORY this year? It's ONLY STORY over the course of KotFE? And ONLY STORY means no grouping whatsoever. Where are you pulling this from? Because it seems like you're speculating and trying to pass it off as fact.

 

And stop making this personal...I'm treating you with respect, I expect you to do the same.

 

You've already shown disrespect and made it personal. You threw out the idea that I was somehow "confused" about your meaning of "given up on group content" as meaning "given up on group content right now" and you continue to perpetuate it. You've shifted goalposts as to what you "meant" and thrown out the idea that somehow "wait and see" is fanatical idealism.

[Ghisallo]

This is what James Ohlen, the Game Director for SWTOR had to say in regards to why Bioware has begun to really key in on solo play story with KotFE, Shadow of Revan, and even the new solo-mode ops coming with 4.0

 

 

 

For many who are sour that Bioware is focusing too much on story and making this mostly a solo-player experience at the cost to the fans, well, that simply isn't true because Mr. Ohlen just said that not only have players within the community been asking for more story but based off of how a majority of the players play SWTOR, it isn't the OPS, Flashpoints, GSF, or Warzones that people play the most, it is the level 1-50 class stories!

 

So for those who think that this is another mistake that Bioware is taking with SWTOR and that people will leave this game in droves because of the focus on solo play, then you are wrong. In fact, this expansion will satisfy a majority of their player base! In fact, the only reason why I am here and back as a subscriber is because I am excited for this new solo-friendly approach to SWTOR and while waiting for KotFE, I am leveling up a few characters that I will import into KotFE later this year.

 

I thought that I just point that out.

 

Well here are some issues.

 

Talking about metrics regarding play style means nothing without the context in which they look at the data.

1. Did they consider the impact that lockouts have or the impact of the weekly/daily Group finder reward system?

2. When you consider those logic dictates that players either finish them and stop playing for the week OR keep playing in non-instanced content. It's little logical things like this that get dismissed.

 

You also have to look at that comment in the face of EVERYTHING else they have said. What else did they say?

1. That they did not have the time to do new instanced content, along with story, because they are redoing how itemization and how instanced content scales etc.

2. They are doing a soft reset of the ENTIRE game by resetting our companions (the only way to effectively do "free level 60 in this game.)

3. They have stated that they will start on new instanced content as soon as KotFE drops.

4. We also have the CFO at the 3rd quarter earnings call basically saying "SWTOR added players with SoR and better knock it out of the park with Episode VII coming out."

5. We also have a financial model that is HEAVILY tilted to either subscribing or buying from the cash shop the tools to get around instance queue and gear equip limits.

 

Again total context... logic. So when we look at EVERYTHING they have said what do we see?

 

1. We have the CFO saying "SoR brought new players you better do BETTER come December 2015" and the EA of the last three years has shown they have NO problem with firing people or canceling entire projects, even long existing ones, if they do not meet expected ROIs.

2. They have limited resources and know that the only way to grow as demanded is to lower the bar to entry, the perennial problem of all MMOs. That is why MMO's give free end game level characters now. The companion system complicates that here in Rift so we have the Companion reset. this REQUIRES story. Forget the metrics, unless they do away with Companions the NEED the story for new/returning players to get that "free" level 60.

3. They KNOW that a SP RPG focused game would not survive for long with their current financial model so they say "we are not forgetting the MMO fans" and that as soon as KotFE drops new instanced content is being made. They are also "wasting" the resources to level up ALL Operations and FPs to try and retain new players with content by having them think "this game is HUGE" and that current players will wait until the spring when new instanced content will likely land.

 

Tl/Dr... when we look at everything in context the talk of metrics is PR spin because they would look like money grubbers if they said

 

"EA has us on notice to make a lot more money because of the movie coming out. This means in the short term resetting the game to attract and hopefully retain new players. We hope you have the patience to stick through this period of transition because, never fear, once through the period of transition you will have new instanced content because we understand that for an MMO to survive with our financial model we need such repeatable content. This is the lesson we learned at launch and we have not forgotten it. If we didn't learn this lesson we would not be spending all the time retuning over 20 different instances to end game and coding new instances when KotFE drops."

 

Is it a gamble they are making? heck yes. If it works it will be great for us all. More players = more money = more content. If it fails though, and all gambles have a chance of failing, you will see layoffs and a period of confusion while they try to figure out what narrower path they will follow as they will have a cut rather than expanded budget. Welcome to the world of game development.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Xaehl]

This is the smartest thing they've done since release. Its no secret that the majority of players prefer the story driven, play anytime you like, solo content. I like everything, but its a really smart move.

 

And FYI, subs are increasing.