For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[CommanderKool]

Been subbed since launch and have never cancelled my sub until now the game simply does not keep me engaged enough and having deal with a horrible game engine and cartel market focus.

[Linyivee]

“There’s two ways that they give input. There’s the communication obviously either from the forums or from the community events. But then there’s also the communication that we get from metrics that we gather on play style and everything else. Both of them really pointed to one thing, which is that story is the central theme and the best part of Star Wars: The Old Republic. It’s what all our fans wanted If we could give them an endless epic Star Wars story, they would be happy campers for the rest of their lives.”

If you think about this rationally, the reality is that BioWare's metrics are correct. While "SW:TOR" does have a strong MMO community, the truth is that the majority are 'single-player' rpgers.

 

"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", "Jade Empire", "Dragon Age: Origins", "Dragon Age: Awakening", "Dragon Age II", "Mass Effect", and "Neverwinter Nights" are known for their story based content. As a result of spending about two decades on story based content, BioWare has built a very strong and loyal 'single player and roleplaying' community.

 

Even though I am getting into PvP matches, I would easily give them up for story based content.

 

"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" series is the main reason why "Star Wars: The Old Republic" exists.

 

When BioWare announced the move to MMOs, the core "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" fanbase practically rioted. BioWare's metrics revealed what many had known for years.

 

...and, I had no problem with throwing down $20 for "Shadow of Revan". I would do it again.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Linyivee

[Shwarzchild]

If you think about this rationally, the reality is that BioWare's metrics are correct. While "SW:TOR" does have a strong MMO community, the truth is that the majority are 'single-player' rpgers.

 

"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", "Jade Empire", "Dragon Age: Origins", "Dragon Age: Awakening", "Dragon Age II", "Mass Effect", and "Neverwinter Nights" are known for their story based content. As a result of spending about two decades on story based content, BioWare has built a very strong and loyal 'single player and roleplaying' fanbase.

 

Even though I am getting into PvP matches, I would easily give them up for story based content.

 

"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" series is the main reason why "Star Wars: The Old Republic" exists.

 

When BioWare's announced the move to MMOs, the core "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" fanbase practically rioted. BioWare's metrics revealed what many had known for years.

 

There's a lot of truth to this post in that Bioware does have a very very strong following. I was a single player Bioware RPG only guy after playing the original Mass Effect. I came here because I'd played kotor..liked it...and wanted more of it. However, even though I started out as a totally single player story only SWTOR player I've transitioned into a player who wants both story aspects as well as (at least in my case) end game raiding. I love the class quests (even If I absolutely hate leveling), but equally as much I want to be raiding as much as I can.

 

So I do think that you're right in that the core of the game are single player RPG players, but in the end I wonder how many have done the same thing I've done over my time in game in that i've now fallen for both aspects, and does bioware have the tools in place to measure it properly.

 

I don't really understand the whole only story, or only ops, or only pvp perspective. We all came here for the story originally, but got into other niches over time. Bioware is the best at telling stories in video games currently (well for the most part...SoR wasn't exactly the most well written thing I've ever experienced and Revan JUST CANT BELIEVE me....worst lines in the game came from the character who was supposed to be the most iconic....) so I have no doubt that the expansion has potential from a story aspect, but to refrain from criticism about it based on some vague statement that postulates how Bioware is using their "metrics" is just not really good in my book. There are too many variables that are around that could influence things, or add caveats to those numbers. And because of that there should be ample amounts of discussions regarding things.

 

I guess I just wonder if they are putting themselves into a seemingly similar fate as they were in at launch. I don't want to experience that again. They simply need an end game, regardless of how many people their metrics show do 1-50, or how few people do ToS. Or how even fewer are Revanchist. At least that's what my experiences have taught me here. What I fear is really something where they have some great operations scheduled, but since the community doesn't hear about them until say Feb of next year, there hits that second mass exodus.

[ivanhedgehog]

If you think about this rationally, the reality is that BioWare's metrics are correct. While "SW:TOR" does have a strong MMO community, the truth is that the majority are 'single-player' rpgers.

 

"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", "Jade Empire", "Dragon Age: Origins", "Dragon Age: Awakening", "Dragon Age II", "Mass Effect", and "Neverwinter Nights" are known for their story based content. As a result of spending about two decades on story based content, BioWare has built a very strong and loyal 'single player and roleplaying' community.

 

Even though I am getting into PvP matches, I would easily give them up for story based content.

 

"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" series is the main reason why "Star Wars: The Old Republic" exists.

 

When BioWare announced the move to MMOs, the core "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" fanbase practically rioted. BioWare's metrics revealed what many had known for years.

 

...and, I had no problem with throwing down $20 for "Shadow of Revan". I would do it again.

 

We will see next year if this is true. remember that all those KOTOR fans only bought the game 1 time. They didnt pay a subscription. will they be willing to pay month after month or will they pay 1 time get it all and unsubscribe. maybe come back in 6 months or so to get the rest for $15 and unsubscribe again. no reason to pay $15 for months that they done even release anything new.

[DataBeaver]

We will see next year if this is true. remember that all those KOTOR fans only bought the game 1 time. They didnt pay a subscription. will they be willing to pay month after month or will they pay 1 time get it all and unsubscribe. maybe come back in 6 months or so to get the rest for $15 and unsubscribe again. no reason to pay $15 for months that they done even release anything new.

They didn't pay for new outfits or mounts for their characters either.

[Leklor]

We will see next year if this is true. remember that all those KOTOR fans only bought the game 1 time. They didnt pay a subscription. will they be willing to pay month after month or will they pay 1 time get it all and unsubscribe. maybe come back in 6 months or so to get the rest for $15 and unsubscribe again. no reason to pay $15 for months that they done even release anything new.

 

You can't say that. It's just not true.

I happen to be one of those mostly single player guys, who came because of Kotor and Bioware in general. I've been subscribed for most of the game's existence.

I may soon stop because of university, personnal projects and others but it's not tied to my playstyle.

Claiming that Kotor fan only bought the game at release and never subscribed for long is just false. Because you can't know for sure.

[Ghisallo]

For threads like this in general, as this is the umpteenth time someone has used the same out of context quote to justify the same self indulgent view point... This kind of dynamic is an excellent example of a common psychological tenet, namely that this is more about the speaker trying to get validation for their personal opinion rather than actually pointing out a verifiable fact or truth.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

We will see next year if this is true. remember that all those KOTOR fans only bought the game 1 time. They didnt pay a subscription. will they be willing to pay month after month or will they pay 1 time get it all and unsubscribe. maybe come back in 6 months or so to get the rest for $15 and unsubscribe again. no reason to pay $15 for months that they done even release anything new.

 

Will Kotor fans be willing to pay a sub fee? Maybe I'm confused on this post but I think whether or not Kotor fans are going to sub to this game would have be decided over the past 3 years. Nothing is going to change in that regard with KoTFE I believe.

That is to say if the initial games story etc. wasn't enough to get them subbing then KoTFE is unlikely to but it might bring in a few stragglers who didn't give it a go yet or didn't like the mmo aspect to it as it was originally designed ( the annoying forced side mission grind which has gone with 12xp.

 

I do agree with the point on pure story players possibly only subbing once at first then again 6 months later but one would think Bioware has a few more tricks up there sleeves to try keep these players interested and playing that we aren't aware of yet.

For one example we are aware of - the operation/FP overhaul. Whilst there has been a ton of discussion mostly around the lack of new ops I'm yet to find too many people who find the overhaul itself a negative. I think it will make the existing "end game" content much more accessible and there is a plethora of it so that might be on aspect that can help get the non MMO types at least trying it out and possibly getting hooked and playing on.

 

Also I'm sure Bioware must have done some planning around the possibility of pay n run subbing and taken that into account with any sort of budgeting they would have done around KoTFE.

 

They key statement though - time will tell.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

For threads like this in general, as this is the umpteenth time someone has used the same out of context quote to justify the same self indulgent view point... This kind of dynamic is an excellent example of a common psychological tenet, namely that this is more about the speaker trying to get validation for their personal opinion rather than actually pointing out a verifiable fact or truth.

 

So nice of you to indulge us with this self analysis and very good of you to come clean. It is appreciated by all I'm sure.

[well]

So nice of you to indulge us with this self analysis and very good of you to come clean. It is appreciated by all I'm sure.

 

That is going to leave a mark..lol

[Ghisallo]

So nice of you to indulge us with this self analysis and very good of you to come clean. It is appreciated by all I'm sure.

 

Well see here is the difference. I don't take things out of context NOR do I start redundant threads.

 

I see the quote mentioned yes. I also see how Ohlen is also on the record as saying that for an MMORPG to survive it needs elder game. How the current creative director said this is only for now and they will return to the elder game after KotFE drops. I see how, taking the quote so often used out of context as an ah ha movement ignores the NOT so small task of recalling ALL instanced content to new elder game level.

 

So what does logic dictate? That, as I have pointed out elsewhere, this is marketing spin to justify a business decision that has nothing to do with you or me, rather with the expectations of attracting new players come the movie.

 

The game needs story, also with its base design and financial model, in the long run it also needs elder game. This game would not be able to meet the ROI EA expects on story alone period even if they changed the financial model to something more friendly to that dynamic.

 

These are all facts. Facts that get ignored and the same single out of context quote keeps being trumpeted as loud as possible to drown out the inevitable result of all these facts. Namely we will get story starting in October. In the Spring we will get more elder game.... This will be followed by more story... Which will be followed by more elder game...IF the gamble they are taking in October pays off. This is not some sea change where the game is changing its overall aradigm from an MMORPG to a story based game. They have SPECiFIALLY said this. Some people don't read, or at least recall, everything though but only that one line that makes them feel like a special snowflake.

 

On a side not it would be nice if JUST once, really, just once you would actually address my facts in the threads, in context, and not simply engage in veiled ad hominems.

[Ghisallo]

Will Kotor fans be willing to pay a sub fee? Maybe I'm confused on this post but I think whether or not Kotor fans are going to sub to this game would have be decided over the past 3 years. Nothing is going to change in that regard with KoTFE I believe.

That is to say if the initial games story etc. wasn't enough to get them subbing then KoTFE is unlikely to but it might bring in a few stragglers who didn't give it a go yet or didn't like the mmo aspect to it as it was originally designed ( the annoying forced side mission grind which has gone with 12xp.

 

I do agree with the point on pure story players possibly only subbing once at first then again 6 months later but one would think Bioware has a few more tricks up there sleeves to try keep these players interested and playing that we aren't aware of yet.

For one example we are aware of - the operation/FP overhaul. Whilst there has been a ton of discussion mostly around the lack of new ops I'm yet to find too many people who find the overhaul itself a negative. I think it will make the existing "end game" content much more accessible and there is a plethora of it so that might be on aspect that can help get the non MMO types at least trying it out and possibly getting hooked and playing on.

 

Also I'm sure Bioware must have done some planning around the possibility of pay n run subbing and taken that into account with any sort of budgeting they would have done around KoTFE.

 

They key statement though - time will tell.

 

You are so looking at this like no gamble is being played that BW has it all thought out and has contingency plans and that this is about the story player currently here. They don't and it isn't.

 

Proof?

 

1. Originally "this year is going to be all about story." It was going to be KotFE part 1 follows by Part II. They see the outcry and say " crap" so now its "we will start designing new elder game as soon as KotFE drops".

2. It's no longer enough to just have all the subscriber benefits vs a f2per nor to just get the expac for free. Now for each month you stay you get a new benefit, a month, guns, exclusive companion, duster etc.

 

There are so many other things but the core issue of your argument, and so many others is that it is based on a false premise. It may hurt your feelings but the purpose of KotFE has NOTHING to do with you, me or any existing players. It is about trying to attract, and hopefully maintain, new players, while minimizing the damage to the currently active player base. EA publically called out BW and said they expect big gains in revenue in the quarter the Movie launches. That only happens if they attract a lot of new players.

 

This is about delivering on that ultimatum and taking a gamble that they can do it without a medium to long term loss. In the end so long as that quarter does well they will still have their jobs and they can play more reactionary damage control as we have already seen them start doing.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Well see here is the difference. I don't take things out of context NOR do I start redundant threads.

 

No, you just comment in them and then run away to repeat yourself in other threads when your challenged and shown to be wrong.

 

On a side not it would be nice if JUST once, really, just once you would actually address my facts in the threads, in context, and not simply engage in veiled ad hominems.

 

Oh I addressed your "facts" ( which were actually opinions but ok ) in other threads but as you always seem to do you ignore my calling you out on this, fail to back up the questions or points I make against your supposed facts and then pretty much start aruging with someone else about some other obscure point or run away entirely.

 

Like I said if you want to continue those debates then go back to those threads and do so, I'm still waiting for you to justify those facts before I try work out exactly what sort of nonsense you are going on about this time.

 

Honestly you lack of general comprehension is rather frustrating.

 

Let's examine it shall we?

 

You post:

Or they take whatever interpretation the numbers suits the current marketing goal. In a business this is the usual answer, you don't stay in business long if you miss the forest for any length of time.

 

I reply:

Yet here is Bioware Austin ( and SWToR ) years later still turning a profit. Guess they are interpreting their numbers correctly and can see that forest quite clearly.

 

You reply:

Yes and if you look athow they were turning a profit it was by NOT focusing just on story. Trends like that don't change in 3-6 months.

 

hence why, if you bothered to read what I wrote, why I say this is marketing. They do not want to piss off people by saying they are focusing on new rather than existing players. So they say what thy say.

 

BUT you are the Captain of the "confirmation bias" crowd, so I do not expect reading in context and other such critical thinking skills. If you did you would see that I acknowledge story is important but that when you take ALL of BW Austin's comments together, and don't cherry pick as you ALWAYS do, a very different narrative than the one you so desperately cling to is revealed.

 

And the rest of the nonsense you go on about ...

 

Exactly what in my reply implies I am saying they are changing the game to a single player game? What in my reply has anything at all to do with the nonsense you are now repeatedly going on about that I am failing to actually see many people arguing this far into the thread ( I didn't bother with the earlier parts hence why my reply was only to that 1 comment of yours )?

 

All I said is basically whatever "numbers" ( we can call it metrics if you like ) Bioware are working with must be working well, based on your own previous statement, because they are still in business and making money. So by your own logic they must therefore see the forest quite well.

 

What I am NOT doing, unlike you, is pretending I know what numbers/Bioware work with, pretending I know what their future plans and business model is going to be, pretending to know exactly what EA expects from this game ( we can all generalise and say "profit" - it doesn't takes walls of text to tell us that, common sense does it for us ).

 

So please by all means stick to the facts of what I said to you directly if you are going to quote my in reply, don't bring up the other nonsense you are going on about because you've tried that on in other threads and failed miserably in your arguments and as such I don't care for the nonsense you are again going on about because I know it for what it often is ... nonsense.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You are so looking at this like no gamble is being played that BW has it all thought out and has contingency plans and that this is about the story player currently here.

 

Words in my mouth now? How about skipping your lack of comprehension and the nonsense that is below and I'm yet to read and showing me exactly why it is I am "looking" at this the way you are telling me I am?

 

 

There are so many other things but the core issue of your argument, and so many others is that it is based on a false premise.

 

My argument? What would my argument be exactly? Based on your responses thus far I don't think you have any clue what or who you are responding to half the time.

 

What you are saying may or may not be true, no idea, I can't be stuffed reading it because you keep seem to be implying I am saying and thinking things that I'm not so I am more interested in you showing me how you came to the conclusion of providing the responses you have to me based on what I've said in this thread.

 

I often wonder exactly who you are arguing against because the replies you put forward have little to do with anything I've said in this thread as I can understand it.

 

There are so many other things but the core issue of your argument, and so many others is that it is based on a false premise.

 

Again me and everyone else's argument. What is it in your eyes that I'm arguing? Perhaps you could explain clearly and actually quote something to show how you are coming to the conclusion of what I am arguing because quite frankly ... you aren't making any sense and not making any sense is very similar to ... nonsense and this strawman argument of yours just has to stop.

Edited August 19, 2015 by MeNaCe-NZ

[Juromaro]

I never cared what other people thought about the game. 1/3 will prefer the story/questing, 1/3 will prefer the endgame pve, and 1/3 will prefer the pvp. Has always been this way in every MMO that included all 3 options, then you'll get the people like me, who enjoy all aspects equally.

 

 

Whatever Bioware says you either take on faith or you don't, no one can prove 100% if it's true or not unless they are tracking every single thought and post made about said reviews. Nor should you take anything from forum users beyond face value.

 

 

I like this game, and have been an on and off subscriber since wave 2 of the head start. I have many deleted 50's and currently 21 characters either at max or close to it. I'll still be playing this game in the years to come, regardless of "metrics"

[Radzkie]

Story is this games strong suit and the devs know that. I think it's story is better than any other MMO on the market. Hands down. No contest. I'm happy they're focusing on story and hope they continue to do so in the future. As long as they keep adding story, I'll keep resubbing to play through it.

 

I gave up on the rest of SWTOR's content. For longevity and quality of endgame content, I play another MMO. The other MMO I play is currently creeping up on WoW's amount of subs, for good reason. They got a good team of devs who know exactly how to snare players.

 

Also when I stopped caring so much about SWTOR it made the game 100% better for me. I laugh every time I log in and find that they've redesigned a class for the 100th time, or added more daily areas. lmao.

[Kurkina]

Also when I stopped caring so much about SWTOR it made the game 100% better for me.

 

Funny, the devs seems to have taken the same approach, but it remains to be seen if the game will improve.

 

Thread is getting long, I wonder if I can humbly offer a sort of "reset" to get back to the core question of the metrics. Here is a summary of the counter-arguments that I find the most likely to support the idea that the devs have mis-interpreted them, or presented them post factum in a distorted way:

 

Timing of the analysis

 

The decision to focus on story at the expense of group content must have been made a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. The metrics were then taken (slice in time? status quo? lifespan of the game?) and presented in such a way that justifies this decision, both internally and to EA shareholders.

 

Context of the data

 

The metrics at face value are necessarily skewed by the fact that they are taken at a time when the game is diversified, with a variety of supported niches for everyone. That means that people who are subscribed primarily for group content engage in the single-player content, and play it a lot: to level, for fun, in between ops, for credits (dailies). This pads the data and makes it seem like "people want story" ... but the question is: how many of those people who subscribe for group content (but play single-player as a natural course) will continue to subscribe after the change?

 

While the metrics may reflect what people are doing during the slice of time that they are measured, they cannot predict what people will do after a fundamental shift in the game's paradigm and philosophy. That decision that each and everyone of us will make is immune to concrete statistical analysis, because it is emotional at its core. I feel that BW is completely disconnected from its player base and unfortunately cannot see that.

 

Nature of the Pro-Story argument

 

I have no clue whatsoever, across the general forum in its entirety. What is your point? Why do you defend BW so much? Why are you so certain that this move is good for the game?

 

I fear that you have been brainwashed by BW's rhetoric, and the company will certainly ride your good will, along with the curiosity of new players, for a while into 2016. But it is precisely YOU PEOPLE that should be MOST concerned about the counter arguments of those that care about traditional MMO elements are raising. Because long-term, the game must diversify or it will fail. There is no such thing in the current spectrum of all existing games as an online subscription based single player game that releases an hour or so of content every now and then over the course of the year. It is an unprecedented business model that has no logical prognostic for success.

 

So it comes down to faith. Will BW release enough group content soon enoough to keep the game diverse and everyone happy? With their track record of long delays, broken features and non-existant community management, my faith is broken. So I ask again, those of you defending BW, what is your faith based on? Wouldn't it be better to exert a little pressure on BW as well instead of blindly trumpeting their cause?

Edited August 19, 2015 by Kurkina

[MeNaCe-NZ]

-Snip-

 

My problem with this whole discussion on metrics has and always will be that no one here truly knows what metrics Bioware are basing decisions off. We only know what they've decided to show us and that's going to be a very small subset of what they have available.

 

In general my position is basically KoTFE as we know it now is a wise decision.

It's bringing in plenty of story content that has always been the core of SWToR imo and hopefully promising to keep it on going so no big stale breaks between continuing storylines.

Also it's finally giving a long needed overhaul to operations and flashpoints to provide more end game content and making it far more accessible than it's ever been.

 

Yes I get that it's not fresh end game content but then that's the balance that we get this time, there will be more fresh end game introduced and it will be introduced in to a far better structured and accessible environment than what we had before. This needed to happen at some stage so what better time to have your op/fp team focus on this rejig than in the run in to such a big content update where the lack of new end game content won't be as noticeable than any other time ideally.

 

In terms of metrics or numbers we only really have our opinions.

I would find it hard to believe that an emphasis on story now would be catering to a minority over a majority also in this game, especially if you take attracting new customers in to the equation.

 

In the end we will find out in about 12 months I feel. By that time all of KoTFE will be out and they should have released new ops/fps.

From this they can then take more metrics to compare what had the better impact upon subscriber numbers.

If it turns out KoTFE boosted subscribers ( or let's just call it profit in general because the way people approach KoTFE and where they spend their money can differ ) and that taking a break from episodic content after the schedule of KoTFE chapters are done to focus on end game content or other "features" then start to see a decline then I think that you will see a long term focus on story content like KoTFE and even less focus on OPs and FPs.

 

However if KoTFE just falls flat it's quite likely you will see little focus on anything in 12 months because that may actually doom n gloom time for this game though personally I don't see KoTFE failing ( as long as they didn't set the bar riddiculously high, we have no idea ).

 

Perfect scenario is KoTFE is so successful they can afford to grow their team and have linear development of ops and story content and everyone is happy ... except pvp ... sorry pvp ( gsf included ) but I don't see you ever being a focus in this game with the current MMO style model it uses but hey that's just my opinion, maybe they'll wake up and get away from making gearing ANY sort of requirement for casual PVP.

I think this has a moderate chance of success depending on how good KoTFE is and how long the chapters are and if it can lure the non raiders into trying some raiding under the new system to retain them in the game. That may require the community being a little less toxic though, especially in game.

 

Anyway sorry but very little doom n gloom above, this is not the post you are looking for.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So I ask again, those of you defending BW, what is your faith based on? Wouldn't it be better to exert a little pressure on BW as well instead of blindly trumpeting their cause?

 

To this question all I can say is ... damn look at how much there is to do in this game! How can I not have faith in this game when I look at the product I pay what I consider a paltry amount to experience.

 

To me it's not "blindly" trumpeting their cause or being apologist at all. To me they've made a damn awesome product and yes they have their faults but a lot of the people who criticise them so harshly I really can't understand where they come from considering when you look at this ENTIRE game and see what you have got and also what you are getting.

 

Put ALL there is in the game and all there will be in context to no new ops for KoTFE ... heh how about you tell US how anyone couldn't defend Bioware based on the product they've put out so far? Because after all if the person posting really thought it was at all bad then why bother still being subbed to criticise it in the first place?

[BadHoneyBadger]

This is what James Ohlen, the Game Director for SWTOR had to say in regards to why Bioware has begun to really key in on solo play story with KotFE, Shadow of Revan, and even the new solo-mode ops coming with 4.0

 

 

 

For many who are sour that Bioware is focusing too much on story and making this mostly a solo-player experience at the cost to the fans, well, that simply isn't true because Mr. Ohlen just said that not only have players within the community been asking for more story but based off of how a majority of the players play SWTOR, it isn't the OPS, Flashpoints, GSF, or Warzones that people play the most, it is the level 1-50 class stories!

 

So for those who think that this is another mistake that Bioware is taking with SWTOR and that people will leave this game in droves because of the focus on solo play, then you are wrong. In fact, this expansion will satisfy a majority of their player base! In fact, the only reason why I am here and back as a subscriber is because I am excited for this new solo-friendly approach to SWTOR and while waiting for KotFE, I am leveling up a few characters that I will import into KotFE later this year.

 

I thought that I just point that out.

 

Their problem with focus on "story" is that the content is too easy to blow through. They could have done so much with Ziost but people were blowing through it in under an hour on each toon. Both of the last expansions offered little in customized story line except between imp and pub then the very last cutscene. Bioware is writing Dr Suess books (short and for entry level readers) I want to see something challenging for a level 60.

[Draqsko]

I gave up on the rest of SWTOR's content. For longevity and quality of endgame content, I play another MMO. The other MMO I play is currently creeping up on WoW's amount of subs, for good reason. They got a good team of devs who know exactly how to snare players.

 

Well near as I can tell, the MMO with the second largest player base behind WoW is Maple Story.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I am 99.999% sure that I am part of the metrics that show that 'players wanted story' and were doing story content over the others. While I PVP'd regularly as I was generally always queued for PVP until I maxxed my Valor and then I wouldn't queue again until I leveled as I was trying to control the speed at which I leveled which was already too fast IMO even without 12x.

 

Finding OPs to do etc was difficult as I chose to remain part of a small guild of friends (which eventually became just a small guild of me, but I was not about to throw away the _millions_ of credits I invested in the guild) rather than join some uberguild which basically was like a microserver general chat (I've been disappointed from the start of all the guild tools/additions from BioWare that seemed to focus the guilds away from _communities_ and more towards monolithic entitites).

 

So the content I generally ran was the planetary storylines, and class stories as I leveled up numerous characters.

 

So, I'm really certain I am in the 'Statistics' as being someone who supports their swerve.

 

I want them to understand in the most unambiguous terms possible.

 

BULLSH*T.

 

I am not a supporter of the swerve they are taking and never would have supported this if I had been _polled_.

 

Statistics are meaningless without proper interpretation of the data and the data _requires_ additional information because the numbers do not mean _anything_ except a reflection of what is happening based on the current confines of the system. The _message boards_ are not a good place to seek data either, as they are frequented by a very small percentage of the population (though in the case of WTOR and its significant decline in subs, its possible this community is slightly more representative than say.. WoW's) that use them.

 

If they wanted a true 'State of the Game' and wanted to know where players wanted them to push their development efforts they needed to do at least two additional things beyond looking at their own data mining statistics.

 

#1 - An incentivized Survey. Put up a _significant_ survey of thoughtful questions (so not just pick a number on a scale questions, but some requiring user descriptions to go along with their scale choices) asking players what they liked most, what they liked least, what they wanted more of, etc. Adding an incentive to successful completion of the survey, say a special suit of armor they deny themselves on the Cartel Market, or what not, means that players will be eager to do the small tasks required to fill out the survey. Make the survey and its reward a banner announcement on the login client. And you'll get a significant portion of the population filling out the survey.

 

You also, by doing this, increase your customers perception that they are considered and that they have some voice. Yes, you will have outliers who are upset if the results of the survey do not go their way, but you provide for the greater whole a much better appearance of being collaborative with your customers. EA/BioWare has been failing at this for a LONG time. The community team you have presently is Toxic. They are doing a very poor job and they blame it on the toxic members of the community. Note though, many of these toxic community members were made toxic, and did not start that way. The communication (rather lack of it) from BioWare/EA has consistently been a source of community frustration. Broken promises about _simple things_ like providing future information have done the job of making many people not trust BioWare at all. This isn't about a feature you couldn't implement for whatever reason, its about saying something, and then never following through on it, when the something was something as simple as, we're going to talk to you more.

 

#2 - In addition to a survey of active and engaged players, you should _always_ have had a survey for customer's you were losing. This too should have been incentivized. Essentially a 'Wait, before you go, We'll give you one additional month of subscription (flagged on the account, can't quit the game more than once in a 12 month period or some such) for answering our short exit survey.

 

Point blank ask questions of a player who is leaving, why they are leaving. Survey could certainly be shorter and would likely require more 'written answer' type responses than ranked choices, and certainly some of them are going to be profanity laced tirades. Who cares. You just skim for real/workable data and if none exists, you set it aside as being useless noise.

 

Simply looking at numbers/statistics really does not ever give you a true perspective of peoples desires.

 

The majority of people in the US for example, are likely not happy with their every day job routine. They're certainly not happy with their Government, etc, but it persists. If you were to look at the 'statistics' you would see that the majority of the country continues to go to their daily jobs, and they continue to slog on in their every day lives, and you might conclude, because the statistics show them not rioting, that everything is fine and they want more of the same.

 

They don't.

 

And the players, merely by playing the game within the confines of what the game offers, do not necessarily endorse more of the same.

 

So.. REMOVE my results from your statistics. And I encourage anyone else who agrees with my general sentiments (but not perhaps my general ideas for the game) to ask for the same.

 

I do not endorse your current changes and the path/direction you are taking with the game. My activity in the game may appeared to have supported it but I most decidedly do not.

 

If I wanted a single player game, I most definitely would not have joined a MMO. Especially one with an outrageous MACROtransaction system like the one you have created.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Although I already said that metrics can be read different ways and that we really wont know until after the expansion is released who is right or wrong, I would like to add that it isn't that hard to gauge metrics. Sure, you can't do it with metrics alone, but they take into account other indicators such as polls, voices on social media and elsewhere, to reinforce a way to read the data from the metrics. And if someone is competent at their job, they will do not only that but also account for the most obvious explanations for the data, i.e. limits on ops etc.

 

That being said, sure, they could just be incompetent, and we'll see how things go with their choice to focus on story.

[Kurkina]

Menace-NZ your assessment of where the game is headed is optimistic but realistic, if all does indeed transpire the way you delineate then we will be in a decent place. BUT ...

 

It relies on 2 things:

 

It's bringing in plenty of story content that has always been the core of SWToR imo and hopefully promising to keep it on going so no big stale breaks between continuing storylines.

 

BW is putting immense pressure on itself to make this happen without the stale breaks that you mention. If they don't, and the stale breaks are indeed perceived to be there, they are in for a big backlash.

 

Furthermore ...

 

In the end we will find out in about 12 months I feel. By that time all of KoTFE will be out and they should have released new ops/fps.

 

I also feel that 12 months is the earliest realistic scenario. But think about that, thats about 150+ dollars/EUR of subscription fees for a single line of story that they will release in bits and pieces. This in my opinion is outrageous and bordering on unethical. What empowers them to do it is that they have:

 

 

1. a captive audience of players that want story and have nowhere else to go at present for this type of experiece
   
2. a new influx of players who want to try this "restart". Since they will be playing from the beginning, it will seem like there is a lot of content
   

 

I think this would have been the perfect time to shift the business model to Buy-to-play: one rate for existing subscribers for the KotFE add-on, another rate for new players for the whole game, doing away with F2P completely. And then no subscription fee, ever again. This is one of the few remaining sub-based MMOs out there, and in my opinion they are not releasing/supporting enough content to warrant the subscription fee. Compare ESO, GW2, Rift ... whatever you think of those actual games, just look at their content compared to their business model and you will see that SWTOR as projected after KotFE is a preposterous rip-off.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Kurkina

[Shwarzchild]

Menace-NZ your assessment of where the game is headed is optimistic but realistic, if all does indeed transpire the way you delineate then we will be in a decent place. BUT ...

 

It relies on 2 things:

 

 

 

BW is putting immense pressure on itself to make this happen without the stale breaks that you mention. If they don't, and the stale breaks are indeed perceived to be there, they are in for a big backlash.

 

Furthermore ...

 

 

 

I also feel that 12 months is the earliest realistic scenario. But think about that, thats about 150+ dollars/EUR of subscription fees for a single line of story that they will release in bits and pieces. This in my opinion is outrageous and bordering on unethical. What empowers them to do it is that they have:

 

 

1. a captive audience of players that want story and have nowhere else to go at present for this type of experiece
   
2. a new influx of players who want to try this "restart". Since they will be playing from the beginning, it will seem like there is a lot of content
   

 

I think this would have been the perfect time to shift the business model to Buy-to-play: one rate for existing subscribers for the KotFE add-on, another rate for new players for the whole game, doing away with F2P completely. And then no subscription fee, ever again. This is one of the few remaining sub-based MMOs out there, and in my opinion they are not releasing/supporting enough content to warrant the subscription fee. Compare ESO, GW2, Rift ... whatever you think of those actual games, just look at their content compared to their business model and you will see that SWTOR as projected after KotFE is a preposterous rip-off.

 

Claiming the expansion is going to be a rip off is a tad bit outlandish...I'm not sure I follow you with that last sentence. Can you go into a bit more detail. I'd like to kind of understand your position a little more before I respond.