where did they go wrong with combat sentinel??

[Akirohome]

i think they need to rework precision that 3 seconds isnt any good to us also lack of abilities in this tree we at least need one more or lower the cooldown on master strike cuz spamming blade rush isnt fun make us like 2.10 when combat sents were in our prime also the loss of the accuracy buff hurt our surge gearing bioware combat needs to be reworked for 4.0 if we are to be a choice in future hm raiding content. Your opinion matter guys time to speak up on this!!!

[DNGDangerous]

i think they need to rework precision that 3 seconds isnt any good to us also lack of abilities in this tree we at least need one more or lower the cooldown on master strike cuz spamming blade rush isnt fun make us like 2.10 when combat sents were in our prime also the loss of the accuracy buff hurt our surge gearing bioware combat needs to be reworked for 4.0 if we are to be a choice in future hm raiding content. Your opinion matter guys time to speak up on this!!!

 

Our opinion obviously doesnt matter- lol i dont think the devs even read the forums honestly.

 

If they still cared, they would have "fixed" sentinels a year+ ago. Its better to just laugh it off and try and find something you like about the class and use that as a beacon for sanity!

[Bahadori]

i think they need to rework precision that 3 seconds isnt any good to us also lack of abilities in this tree we at least need one more or lower the cooldown on master strike cuz spamming blade rush isnt fun make us like 2.10 when combat sents were in our prime also the loss of the accuracy buff hurt our surge gearing bioware combat needs to be reworked for 4.0 if we are to be a choice in future hm raiding content. Your opinion matter guys time to speak up on this!!!

 

How would you fix Precision? In my opinion there's nothing wrong with it. Would it be nice to have it last longer than 3 seconds? Of course it would but the way it is now is fine. The Master Strike cooldown is, by design, meant to align with the time it takes to build Zen back up after it's been used. If executed properly your Master Strike is available every time its Critically needed. Lowering the cooldown on Master Strike would do nothing for you unless it was aligned with the cooldown on Precision and Zen came alot faster than it does now. If you're spamming Blade Rush then honestly you're doing something wrong. Blade Rush is only ever used to keep your 6 second buff applied and/or because everything else of higher priority is unavailable. Other than removing Cauterize, RNG effect of Hand of Justice/Opportune Attack procs, removing the SMALL amount of damage Precision (Precision Slash at the time) did, and lowering the damage output of Twin Saber Throw nothing has changed really. The RNG aspect of the spec during 2.X was worse for the average Combat Sentinel player. I know because I trained alot of them and people had a difficult time keeping a 20 second timer running in there head constantly to maximize DPS. As far as raid viability we are a HUGE asset to HM raid teams the only caveat to that is the player has to be much more proficient and raid aware to hang with other classes/specs and thus Sentinels are not everyone's first choice because most people that play this game are not the 1% they're the casual gamer or semi casual gamer and putting in that kind of work when other classes are much more forgiving is something most do not care to bother with. Sentinels (or melee in general) have picked up this horrible wrap this expansion and it is utter non sense in my opinion. Do you have to be more raid aware and proficient with your spec? Yes. More so than the ranged DPS sitting in the back pushing buttons. I honestly find ranged DPS extremely boring and enjoy having to be on my toes when playing melee as it keeps the job dynamic, but that's just my "opinion" .

[g_mK]

Overall combat dps is in a good place and meets any current dps requirements for HM ops. Like Hayete said, one of the biggest problems is that the required skill to play sentinel and melee overall (Vanguard excluded) has gone up by a lot and bringing range is much more easy. I will say that I have enjoyed sentinel this tier since you really have to bring up your game but it has been quite fun.

[AcaciaDragon]

i think they need to rework precision that 3 seconds isnt any good to us also lack of abilities in this tree we at least need one more or lower the cooldown on master strike cuz spamming blade rush isnt fun make us like 2.10 when combat sents were in our prime also the loss of the accuracy buff hurt our surge gearing bioware combat needs to be reworked for 4.0 if we are to be a choice in future hm raiding content. Your opinion matter guys time to speak up on this!!!

 

Periods are your friend, Unless you are a chick. Check out the guides in this forum for better rotation and timing in Combat/Carnage.

 

Are you popping Berserk before Precision? Before MS? Before Clasing Blast?

 

Actually losing the Acc stat put us on par with everyone else. Most classes have to get to that point, and the extra boost allowed us to focus on other stats more than the #1 priority, something the other classes didnt get. Yeah it sucked, but it evened us out. Or just Homogenizes the class more...Whatever sounds better.

[jauvtus]

The RNG aspect of the spec during 2.X was worse for the average Combat Sentinel player. I know because I trained alot of them and people had a difficult time keeping a 20 second timer running in there head constantly to maximize DPS.

 

Not for all Actually, pre3.0 rotation was easier for me, and this new one I simply cannot master. I mean I read guides (like yours) and try to use evey little trick and still I barely break 4k Old Combat I liked much better. But it's ok Watchman is my main anyways

[Kyovarde]

Combat is FINE IMO. DPS could stand to be slightly higher, like by maybe 5% at most to make up for our loss of time on target compared to ranged classes, but aside from that it's one of the smoothest and best designed specs in the game ATM.

[Vodrin]

The only thing I would add is that from a PvP perspective I think it would be reasonable to add some CC immunity similar to what Concentration currently has tied to Force Exhaustion. I think both combat and watchman could use something similar.

[jauvtus]

The only thing I would add is that from a PvP perspective I think it would be reasonable to add some CC immunity similar to what Concentration currently has tied to Force Exhaustion. I think both combat and watchman could use something similar.

 

From pvp perspective, it would be much better if they removed all cc immunities from all specs while also reducing cc overall. Would be much more fluid gameplay.

Btw playing Anni in pvp, cc is not that much of an issue for me. Ofc I got stunned to death quite enough, still dont feel like cc immunity is justified. NOONE should have any kind of cc immunity (looking at sins with 17s of stun immunity)

Edited August 14, 2015 by jauvtus

[DynamiCtagez]

How would you fix Precision? In my opinion there's nothing wrong with it. Would it be nice to have it last longer than 3 seconds? Of course it would but the way it is now is fine. The Master Strike cooldown is, by design, meant to align with the time it takes to build Zen back up after it's been used. If executed properly your Master Strike is available every time its Critically needed. Lowering the cooldown on Master Strike would do nothing for you unless it was aligned with the cooldown on Precision and Zen came alot faster than it does now. If you're spamming Blade Rush then honestly you're doing something wrong. Blade Rush is only ever used to keep your 6 second buff applied and/or because everything else of higher priority is unavailable. Other than removing Cauterize, RNG effect of Hand of Justice/Opportune Attack procs, removing the SMALL amount of damage Precision (Precision Slash at the time) did, and lowering the damage output of Twin Saber Throw nothing has changed really. The RNG aspect of the spec during 2.X was worse for the average Combat Sentinel player. I know because I trained alot of them and people had a difficult time keeping a 20 second timer running in there head constantly to maximize DPS. As far as raid viability we are a HUGE asset to HM raid teams the only caveat to that is the player has to be much more proficient and raid aware to hang with other classes/specs and thus Sentinels are not everyone's first choice because most people that play this game are not the 1% they're the casual gamer or semi casual gamer and putting in that kind of work when other classes are much more forgiving is something most do not care to bother with. Sentinels (or melee in general) have picked up this horrible wrap this expansion and it is utter non sense in my opinion. Do you have to be more raid aware and proficient with your spec? Yes. More so than the ranged DPS sitting in the back pushing buttons. I honestly find ranged DPS extremely boring and enjoy having to be on my toes when playing melee as it keeps the job dynamic, but that's just my "opinion" .

 

You're only talking PvE ofc.

 

In PvP Carnage/Combat still has the problem of having the easiest countered burst in the game while not actually having as good of a burst spike as it used to have. I think Carnage/Combats overall damage output is fine, but the spikes could definitely be higher OR there needs to be a safer way to get your burst through.

Edited August 14, 2015 by DynamiCtagez

[AcaciaDragon]

You're only talking PvE ofc.

 

In PvP Carnage/Combat still has the problem of having the easiest countered burst in the game while not actually having as good of a burst spike as it used to have. I think Carnage/Combats overall damage output is fine, but the spikes could definitely be higher OR there needs to be a safer way to get your burst through.

 

"Easiest countered" is a matter of oppinion. Say Ravage/Master Strike isnt used, you are looking at a 3 second window to stop a Gore + DB, and thats if they see the Gore buff on you. If you do it right, you can get Gore +DB off within a second, which will constitute 2/3 of the damage you will do in that 4 second window. Half if your VT autocrit is available and Slaughter is up.

Edited August 14, 2015 by AcaciaDragon

[jauvtus]

"Easiest countered" is a matter of oppinion. Say Ravage/Master Strike isnt used, you are looking at a 3 second window to stop a Gore + DB, and thats if they see the Gore buff on you. If you do it right, you can get Gore +DB off within a second, which will constitute 2/3 of the damage you will do in that 4 second window. Half if your VT autocrit is available and Slaughter is up.

 

I just love Obfuscating/Pacifying Combat/Carnage, basically making them useless (sure CB/DB) Btw two things: 1) good players pay attention to enemy buffs and know when to CC 2) bad players will just stun to death on their rerolled (from smashmonkey rage mara) fotm AP PT

[Firolas]

This is the problem your up against mate when you complain about the quality of life in the class you play.

People tell you to learn to play it better or it's 'fine' or it does great dps in ops or pvp or on a test dummy.

Totally doesn't help at all and the Devs sadly listen to them and ignore you.

 

Sentinel/Marauders are in a bad place regardless to what people claim they are.

Hear all the time that watchman/annihilation is fine because people are pulling great dps numbers at the end of unranked warzones or in ops with the dot spread.

Doesn't change the fact the play style is horrible. The rotation is ugly and lost it's amazing feel it had before.

It sucks to play, was my favourite spec for 3 years and now its even unbearable to do dailies in.

 

Carnage/combat was openly said by the Devs it was tweaked to make as the 'easy' spec to play..so away went the cooldown proc for gore/precision and it is alot of spamming of massacre/blade rush..outside of gore/precision windows your either building resources or spamming that 1 ability...Totally Boring.

Had a few carnage marauders in guild who were massive fans of the spec before 3.0 and have since retired from playing the spec since it lost its difficulty appeal..Squeezing 4 abilities into the old 4 sec windows was an art form and proc'ing the window with enough resources to use it instantly gave it a difficulty factor.

 

Sadly it seems the specs are heading in the wrong direction and the game Devs are wanting to make the specs mirror images of others and some easy for casual people to log in once a week and play endgame without having to do any real work.

 

Continue to complain in the forums and hopefully one day a DEV will read your post and maybe just maybe you'l get lucky and your spec will change for the better.

 

I sign off with this

BRING BACK ANNIHILATION/WATCHMAN PRE 3.0 !!!!!!

[Bahadori]

This is the problem your up against mate when you complain about the quality of life in the class you play.

People tell you to learn to play it better or it's 'fine' or it does great dps in ops or pvp or on a test dummy.

Totally doesn't help at all and the Devs sadly listen to them and ignore you.

 

Really!? You have some of the best Combat Sentinels/Carnage Marauders (Think you missed the mark on the title here with your Watchman/Annihilation rant) playing right now giving actual feedback to the original poster as to the state of the class. People running end game progression, Ranked PvP, writing guides, etc. and you want him to completely dismiss everything those individuals are saying because our answers are not what you want to hear? That's completely baffling mate.

 

Carnage/combat was openly said by the Devs it was tweaked to make as the 'easy' spec to play..so away went the cooldown proc for gore/precision and it is alot of spamming of massacre/blade rush..outside of gore/precision windows your either building resources or spamming that 1 ability...Totally Boring.

Had a few carnage marauders in guild who were massive fans of the spec before 3.0 and have since retired from playing the spec since it lost its difficulty appeal..Squeezing 4 abilities into the old 4 sec windows was an art form and proc'ing the window with enough resources to use it instantly gave it a difficulty factor.

 

When/where did the Devs state that it was suppose to be the "easy spec"? 3.0 saw many changes to many DPS specs move away from heavy RNG and more towards dependable procs assuming you understood how they work and where they come from. I'm really surprised that your guild mates left the spec because of 3.0 when it is MUCH more difficult and challenging in 3.0 to Combat/Carnage DPS in Ops than it was pre 3.0 For starters you have zero standoff compared to other melee classes if you've got no choice but to be off the boss and out of melee range for prolonged periods of time. Furthermore pre 3.0 you had a much longer duration on Precision/Gore, Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw did a lot more damage, and you had DoT damage from Cauterize/Rupture. Post 3.0 we have less time to execute damage inside our Precision window, Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw are only used for proper energy management now, and we have Zero DoT capability. Stack those changes with how punishing HM Rav/ToS can be for Melee DPS, especially those with no standoff capability, it's surprising to me that anyone who understood the spec pre 3.0 and post 3.0 would feel its "easy" comparatively. You have to be that much more on your game and that much more proficient with the spec/class to play 3.0 content as opposed to prior Dread Fortress/Dread Palace Ops/Progression. I say this having cleared 10/11 HM and currently pushing 3rd floor Revan HM. FYI all of those fights can be found on my Youtube channel with live parsing numbers as the fight is occurring. Take a look at those and tell me "Where did they go wrong with Combat Sentinels" as the original poster asked

[Firolas]

Wooo you really are a big fan of the spec.

 

Lets see.. yes I do want him to dismiss people telling him that his opinion is wrong and that everything is fine.

Thats thing with opinions (like ******es everyone has one ) and his doesn't need to be the same as yours.

What baffles me is you think the spec is fine and he's wrong to think differently.

First guy said he wanted a longer gore/precision window in which you agreed it would be better if it was longer but right now its fine..that's a total contradiction in its self by the way..You can't say it would be better if it was changed but as is its okay..that's just arguing with yourself. 4 secs is better than 3 so pre 3.0 gore/precision window was better, so he's right to want that back.

You then say ''If you're spamming Blade Rush then honestly you're doing something wrong'' but a quick look on dulfy guide and the guy there wrote 'Blade Rush – main spammable and filler ability'' so again another contradiction since you claim he should listen to you and the guide writers.

When playing combat/carnage it does feel like your spamming that ability alot more than the others..I personally find it boring (that's just my opinion) and it would seem others feel the same (see original posters comment)

 

As for the 'easy' comment.

Sorry to hurt your 'I love combat' bubble but out of the 3 specs for sentinel/marauder it's widely regarded as the easier spec to play/learn and I'm almost positive I read a Devs post somewhere before 3.0 that it was designed to be the 'easier' spec out the 3.

Your argument that its not easy to play this spec due to the endgame ops mechanics has nothing to do with the fact it was built play style wise to be more simpler than the other 2.

Everyone will agree that melee DPS as a whole is HARD in endgame HM OPS.

But it is easier to learn combat/carnage, here's another guide quote from dulfy ''Who is Combat for

The Spec is best choice for beginners of all 3 available Sentinel Discipline paths. The simplicity and the new highlight system developed by Bioware in 3.0allows for new players to be efficient.''

 

So is the guy that started this conversation wrong in wanting changes ? I think not and pretty sure others agree.

New abilities? why not

Longer Gore/precision window? Hell yeah

Less use of blade rush? would be nice

 

For the record.

I have the utmost respect and gratitude to all theorycrafters / PTS players and guide writers. The work they do deserves appreciation.

 

 

BRING BACK ANNIHILATION/WATCHMAN PRE 3.0 !!!!!!

[Kyovarde]

Wooo you really are a big fan of the spec.

 

Lets see.. yes I do want him to dismiss people telling him that his opinion is wrong and that everything is fine.

Thats thing with opinions (like ******es everyone has one ) and his doesn't need to be the same as yours.

What baffles me is you think the spec is fine and he's wrong to think differently.

First guy said he wanted a longer gore/precision window in which you agreed it would be better if it was longer but right now its fine..that's a total contradiction in its self by the way..You can't say it would be better if it was changed but as is its okay..that's just arguing with yourself. 4 secs is better than 3 so pre 3.0 gore/precision window was better, so he's right to want that back.

You then say ''If you're spamming Blade Rush then honestly you're doing something wrong'' but a quick look on dulfy guide and the guy there wrote 'Blade Rush – main spammable and filler ability'' so again another contradiction since you claim he should listen to you and the guide writers.

When playing combat/carnage it does feel like your spamming that ability alot more than the others..I personally find it boring (that's just my opinion) and it would seem others feel the same (see original posters comment)

 

As for the 'easy' comment.

Sorry to hurt your 'I love combat' bubble but out of the 3 specs for sentinel/marauder it's widely regarded as the easier spec to play/learn and I'm almost positive I read a Devs post somewhere before 3.0 that it was designed to be the 'easier' spec out the 3.

Your argument that its not easy to play this spec due to the endgame ops mechanics has nothing to do with the fact it was built play style wise to be more simpler than the other 2.

Everyone will agree that melee DPS as a whole is HARD in endgame HM OPS.

But it is easier to learn combat/carnage, here's another guide quote from dulfy ''Who is Combat for

The Spec is best choice for beginners of all 3 available Sentinel Discipline paths. The simplicity and the new highlight system developed by Bioware in 3.0allows for new players to be efficient.''

 

So is the guy that started this conversation wrong in wanting changes ? I think not and pretty sure others agree.

New abilities? why not

Longer Gore/precision window? Hell yeah

Less use of blade rush? would be nice

 

For the record.

I have the utmost respect and gratitude to all theorycrafters / PTS players and guide writers. The work they do deserves appreciation.

 

 

BRING BACK ANNIHILATION/WATCHMAN PRE 3.0 !!!!!!

 

1. Bahadori knows more or as much about the spec as everyone else playing.

2. Combat's rotation is as long as if not longer than the Concentration rotation (and Vengeance and Vigilance for that matter), making it more difficult.

3. Blade Rush isn't filler and the Dulfy guide sucks.

4. How can you say you have the utmost respect for guide writers and diss the BEST ONE at the same time?

[Costello]

Something is wrong but in a funny way for people that don't play Marauders/Sents.

 

I don't PvP on my Marauder or Sent cause its not much fun but I have noticed a correlation the team with more Marauder/Sents on it loses. And in 95% of cases they are free kills, could give some suggestions why they suck so bad but the devs don't read so it would be a waste.

[Saikochoro]

Something is wrong but in a funny way for people that don't play Marauders/Sents.

 

I don't PvP on my Marauder or Sent cause its not much fun but I have noticed a correlation the team with more Marauder/Sents on it loses. And in 95% of cases they are free kills, could give some suggestions why they suck so bad but the devs don't read so it would be a waste.

 

Marauders are not free kills unless they don't know how to play the class. Not knowing how to play the class includes jumping into a group of 4-5 enemies and expecting to survive. They are not nearly as bad as many people like to believe. They definitely aren't the worst class. Each spec can do very well in regs, and fury does pretty good in solos.

[Skettitangles]

OK here goes... My Opinion!!

 

I think it's fair enough to say that the devs did not get the balance right in regards to Marauder/Sentinels in 3.0 given the overall amount of tweaks that have been made to the class since SoR launched. Where we are as a class right now is not, however, that bad for endgame PvE and PvP if you are proficient with the class and are willing to put in more effort than is required to play a lot of other classes in HM Operations and Ranked PvP.

 

The answer to the question in the OP is this: They went wrong with the HM Ops fight mechanics in PvE and over-buffed already strong classes on a 1v1 PvP basis in comparison to Marauder/Sentinels.

 

There's the short version. I'll try and keep the rest as "to the point" as possible..

 

The devs did state that Combat/Carnage was intended by design to be a fun and easy spec to play. This was not always the case given the RNG dependence of the pre 2.10 versions of the spec. Currently, I personally find Annihilation the most difficult spec to play and feel that Fury and Carnage are about on par in terms of difficulty of their rotations. As a pure dps class I've always been of the opinion that one should try to master all 3 specs in order to bring maximum utility to your raid group as opposed to specializing in just one spec, and respec on a fight by fight basis, but you can specialize in one discipline if you want and still get your job done.

 

The melee unfriendly design of the current HM Operations is more to blame here than the design of the class or any of it's 3 disciplines. The mechanics of the current HM boss fights can make it very difficult for the average player to get the most of the 3 second Gore/Precision window and retain maximum uptime. Some players will enjoy this challenge. Most won't. Very good players won't see this as a problem. The majority of players who may not get the opportunity to progress in HM with the highest calibre of teams will feel this pain much more on their Marauder/Sentinel toons.

 

As for PvP, on a 1v1 basis most other classes have the upper hand. With all cooldowns available duelling a player of equal skill and gear is very difficult on a Marauder/Sentinel. This is what makes Solo Ranked so risky for our class. Without reliable heals we are much less effective, and again, only the players of the highest skill level will be able to overcome this. All classes are exposed to this same risk in Solo Ranked PvP, however, and Marauder/Sentinels are probably around the middle of the pack right now in terms of performance in that aspect of the game which is fair enough.

 

The fact is there are a lot of classes that are far easier to play in all aspects of the game right now that have more survivability and utility attached to them and are better suited to the average player. Class balance is an ongoing issue that will continue to be an issue for as long as the game lasts. I've recently geared a Sorc for PvP (thank you devs for the 3.3 changes that made this painless and easy for me) and without knowing what the hell I'm doing can easily out-medal my main Marauder in Regular PvP with exactly half the effort. This does not mean that I can charge into the Solo Ranked queue and dominate. The high end content in the game is difficult for everyone involved, it's just a fact that for Marauder/Sentinels the effort required is slightly higher and the risks involved are greater. Should it be this way? I don't know. Only future changes to HM Ops mechanics and the PvP matching system will tell. Let's hope that the design of the game's future content will give our class the opportunities to enjoy a better quality of life.

 

In closing, I will add that I do enjoy playing my Marauders (yes I have 2 level 60 Maras) and I love the Fury and Carnage disciplines and they way their rotations currently work. I'm looking forward to seeing how the additional abilities and utilities will affect them in KOTFE and hope that new content for PvE and PvP can be delivered as quickly as possible next year. Please devs, spare a thought for melee dps and give us a boss fight or two that favour us!

[Akirohome]

thanks for the reply guys im a hardcore combat player but im just stating my opinion that's all and the mere fact vanguard dps is good and left us sents in the dust should be a wake up call yes it takes skill to play sentinel well but it should be worth it. Thing is we bash each other here instead of supporting each other while combat may be 'easy' as many say only a true master can get top dps from it and that is the truth you see majority of sents running combat but do they understand what is required to make it stand out from a 3 second buff no and that is what im getting at 2.10 may have been rgn based but at least we had more abilities for a good rotation ......

[Racter]

IMO Combat/Carnage is the worst spec in the game against a decent player. You will almost never get a burst window out, and on top of that our burst now, at level 60 in full augmented DR, is worse than it was at 50 in WH. Maybe even BM. Ravage/MS does zero damage, DB doesn't hit hard enough to justify being our only other ability, 3s Gore is terrible for PVP or anyone not playing in Bioware's server rooms. On top of just mechanically and numerically not getting the job done anymore, they also gutted every single utility out of the spec and made them utility points. It is currently impossible to get all of our old skill tree passives back.

 

So, to summarize, compared to 2.X we have:

Much, Much less burst

Less reliable burst

Easier to counter burst

Less control

Less mobility

Lost all "passive" utility

Horrible Survivability

 

For reference, I DPS'd all content from launch through TFB when it was current in PVE and prior to quitting was 300 points ahead of the next highest mara/sent in the US in S1 in grouped and top 5 in solo. I also had a sentinel that was nearly as high rated, both as Combat/Carnage. This class needs some help in general, but this spec in particular needs a serious looking at by someone that's done any sort of pvp at all, even 1 warzone is enough to see these glaring flaws. And that's against mediocre players. Against good players? Might as well just /stuck.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Racter

[AcaciaDragon]

Really!? You have some of the best Combat Sentinels/Carnage Marauders (Think you missed the mark on the title here with your Watchman/Annihilation rant) playing right now giving actual feedback to the original poster as to the state of the class. People running end game progression, Ranked PvP, writing guides, etc. and you want him to completely dismiss everything those individuals are saying because our answers are not what you want to hear? That's completely baffling mate.

 

Thats the problem, only a handful are left now. I can count on 1 hand how many people I have seen actively watching this forum and giving positive feedback for players discussing various topics. Even Jauvtus agreed that the Watchmen Annhilation rotation is crap and doesnt flow. Our(Carnage/Combat) DPS may be fine in PvE and comparable to other classes, but our rotation is quite boring. Shortening a Gore/Precision window did make our entire class harder to play, however, the other changes they made, removing abilities, combining others, and giving us the highlitable abilities on proc has made out job much easier. Im not complaining, but it makes you realize how much this class depended on situational awareness rather than a set roation or skill. Once the high need for situation awareness was lessened, the rotation is revealed to be quite...uneventful. Even giving us Devasting blast was boring, its not quite as satisfying as Screams animation and sound was, but thats more asthetics than anything.

 

When/where did the Devs state that it was suppose to be the "easy spec"? 3.0 saw many changes to many DPS specs move away from heavy RNG and more towards dependable procs assuming you understood how they work and where they come from. I'm really surprised that your guild mates left the spec because of 3.0 when it is MUCH more difficult and challenging in 3.0 to Combat/Carnage DPS in Ops than it was pre 3.0 For starters you have zero standoff compared to other melee classes if you've got no choice but to be off the boss and out of melee range for prolonged periods of time. Furthermore pre 3.0 you had a much longer duration on Precision/Gore, Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw did a lot more damage, and you had DoT damage from Cauterize/Rupture. Post 3.0 we have less time to execute damage inside our Precision window, Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw are only used for proper energy management now, and we have Zero DoT capability. Stack those changes with how punishing HM Rav/ToS can be for Melee DPS, especially those with no standoff capability, it's surprising to me that anyone who understood the spec pre 3.0 and post 3.0 would feel its "easy" comparatively. You have to be that much more on your game and that much more proficient with the spec/class to play 3.0 content as opposed to prior Dread Fortress/Dread Palace Ops/Progression. I say this having cleared 10/11 HM and currently pushing 3rd floor Revan HM. FYI all of those fights can be found on my Youtube channel with live parsing numbers as the fight is occurring. Take a look at those and tell me "Where did they go wrong with Combat Sentinels" as the original poster asked

 

All your comments are based on PvE, and your performance is phenomenal in such. However, in ops, you always have 1 thing, a healer and things are predictable. However the moment something unpredictable happens, how well can this class adapt? Better than most yes, however, does it make a difference where it matters? We are more like a Jack of All trades but master of none, when it comes to various situations that happen. The learning curve for Mara/Sents is so high that only the best can really make a difference. Melee classes will always have a disadvantage, but its often designed in a way where once in range of attacks the class makes up for it. We dont have that.

 

Now look at PvP. We have alot of shortfalls. Certain classes are answers to others. They just do very well. But what are we good against? Where do we excel when not in the company of healers? We are like vultures who wait and prey on those dying. PvP is where our shortfalls are highlighted the most. Its where the most competitiion is, and where most discussions are brought up to find out how we deal with X when they do X.

 

Its great you have a positive outlook on this spec. Your skill and knowledge of the class is outstanding. But dont pretend there are not problems with the class either. It almost seems in order to play this class you have to really enjoy getting off on pain and punishment. The rewards are just too few and far between.

 

Just compare our Utility tree with any other class(with the amount of Homogenization going on, its not that hard to anymore) and see how bad we have it. The only really comparable class in terms of Utilities is Powertech, and they perform much much better in most regards. They have no answer to certain situations, but the perfect answer to others, which is how it should be. I was suprised to see how differnetly the Utilites were between us and Juggs.

 

OK here goes... My Opinion!!

The fact is there are a lot of classes that are far easier to play in all aspects of the game right now that have more survivability and utility attached to them and are better suited to the average player. Class balance is an ongoing issue that will continue to be an issue for as long as the game lasts. I've recently geared a Sorc for PvP (thank you devs for the 3.3 changes that made this painless and easy for me) and without knowing what the hell I'm doing can easily out-medal my main Marauder in Regular PvP with exactly half the effort. This does not mean that I can charge into the Solo Ranked queue and dominate. The high end content in the game is difficult for everyone involved, it's just a fact that for Marauder/Sentinels the effort required is slightly higher and the risks involved are greater. Should it be this way? I don't know. Only future changes to HM Ops mechanics and the PvP matching system will tell. Let's hope that the design of the game's future content will give our class the opportunities to enjoy a better quality of life.

 

I began playing a Sage yesterday because a few guildies were as well. We had gotten sick of rolling Warzones with imp side Megabads in Tier 1 PvP bracket. We switched over and played for about 5 hours of Warzones, and never lost. The sage isnt quite as easy to play as I thought, however, they only have to put in 1/4 of the effort to achieve the same thing a Marauder or Sentinel can. Thats not balance. The Utilities alone flabbergasted me on a Sage/Sorc. There really is no reason not to play one.

 

I started playing other classes in an effort to learn what animations were what, what sounds were what so I could better understand how to deal when X class pops X. I am learning how to deal with certain situations in PvP, but its also highlighting how easy the other classes have it. It makes me appreciate the challenge that a Marauder brings to the table, but that doesnt make it right. Playing every other class is a cakewalk now.

[Bahadori]

... combat needs to be reworked for 4.0 if we are to be a choice in future hm raiding content.

 

In light of all the PvP talk I had assumed the Original Poster was speaking on PvE... maybe i read that wrong

[AcaciaDragon]

i think they need to rework precision that 3 seconds isnt any good to us also lack of abilities in this tree we at least need one more or lower the cooldown on master strike cuz spamming blade rush isnt fun make us like 2.10 when combat sents were in our prime also the loss of the accuracy buff hurt our surge gearing bioware combat needs to be reworked for 4.0 if we are to be a choice in future hm raiding content. Your opinion matter guys time to speak up on this!!!

 

In light of all the PvP talk I had assumed the Original Poster was speaking on PvE... maybe i read that wrong

 

Which is fine. Everyone has a tendancy to get off topic and discuss other aspects of the game. But PvE and PvP are still tied to the same class. We have the same abilities to be used in a Ops as we do a Warzone. What works for one, doesnt for another. We can treat them seperate to a certain extent but we all have to realize that simply because PvE is fine, doesnt mean PvP isnt. What he commented on are what some PvPers were requesting as well in discussions that were related to PvP. You cant talk about one and not the other unless a discussion about specific fights is in question. You cant adjust one without it effecting the other in some small or big way. The Gore/Precision window change was just as big for PvP'ers as it was for PvEers.

 

 

PvP on a marauder makes for some challenging and more interesting play than PvE, reacting to this and that, for me anyway. But the rewards are not there, which is key in PvP. PvE is pretty straight forward. Once a fight is researched and done, its often easy to identify where you need to work on your play and where you dont and the community of Marauders here are very knowledgeable in that regard and can help guide those players to the right spot.

[Skettitangles]

I think the burst for Combat/Carnage is still pretty decent in PvP if you can pull it off. A 10~11k Vicious Throw plus a 12~13k Devestating Blast is a pretty good combo with 10 meter range but it is an easy one to spot and shut down with the 3 second window. I've never been in favor of changing Gore to a charge based system but for PvP it might be the best answer for the spec in the current game environment. I imagine we'd probably only get a 6 second window before the charges wore off tho lol