Sendraniss Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Since the new update, I have been following stats, last night we did a que, unranked, our team managed 3 kills, the opposing team over 200. Here is what I see the problem is with the new system. Since everything is purchased with the same PvP rewards, your ranked geared players are farming unranked que's. I Love PVP, however, its getting rather diheartening at this point when you are being farmed every single WZ. Yes gear is cheaper, which I like, however, I have to loose Four matches to getting any WZ comms. Play a round, see what its like in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Play as a team and you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudo Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Play as a team and you win. Disregard this troll since there are more variables involved in winning. That being said...this isn't new. The ranked players who have been min/maxed for quite sometime aren't getting ranked queue pops, thus they like to get their PVP on too (can't blamem they want action), so then they group queue or super queue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 You dont have any room at all to complain about gear. This recent update made the total cost of a full "ranked" set something like 16k comms. That is a huge price reduction. And is massively levels the playing field as far as gear acquisition is concerned. Furthermore, while being in full pvp gear will help, it doesnt make as much of a difference as a lot of you would like to think. You can do quite well with no pvp gear at all, if you understand how bolster works. If youre running in their in full 186 basic comm crap and only bolstering to about 1300 expertise, its your own damn fault. Want to know why you lost? The other team was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaScroll Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Disregard this troll since there are more variables involved in winning. That being said...this isn't new. The ranked players who have been min/maxed for quite sometime aren't getting ranked queue pops, thus they like to get their PVP on too (can't blamem they want action), so then they group queue or super queue Actually... the troll isn't far off from the truth mate. Most games I get into are pugs running around like headless chickens. They don't know what to do, they don't know where to go... they just run around and hope they're doing the right thing but when told they're not... they get all mad and fuzzy about it. Devs should add a deathmatch WZ so that these headless chickens can feel at home. And leave the objective base WZ for those able & willing to play "as a team" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) It's probably not even team work or gear. Other team kills you 200 times and they don't die at all? Its gotta be a combination of both along with lopsided role composition. Gear doesn't do that much unless someone is completely hosing up bolster with too highly rated PvE gear and 200 kills suggests to me that there might be some fluff healer kills in there. Edited July 24, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Chambers Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Disregard this troll since there are more variables involved in winning. That being said...this isn't new. The ranked players who have been min/maxed for quite sometime aren't getting ranked queue pops, thus they like to get their PVP on too (can't blamem they want action), so then they group queue or super queue Shadowlands was getting pops all day, usually pops on Harb too, so I'm not sure where these ranked players are, besides farming regs I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Teams should be matched up against other teams. Wanna play as a team? Awesome! Great! You are super awesome! But you should have to play against another group of people who also all queued together. How hard is this? I mean really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) your ranked geared players are farming unranked que's. Play as a team and you win. Just LOL ! This board is always astonishingly full with ignorance ! Edited July 24, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Teams should be matched up against other teams. Wanna play as a team? Awesome! Great! You are super awesome! But you should have to play against another group of people who also all queued together. How hard is this? I mean really. Win ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raruofdoom Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This morning I started with full 162 level gear on my marauder, I just got the last exhuman piece an hour ago, fully geared, augments in all slots, 2018 expertise. How long do you think it will take to get reaver? Ok so say I actually have a job and a life, and that I cant play 10-12 hours everyday. So rather than 5 days of farming, lets make it 10 or even 15. So 2 weeks to go from nothing to best PvP gear.. Did you really expect to just get inside and be on equal terms with others, if you havent even bothered to get geared? Can you name one MMO where a player can go from nothing to best PvP gear in less than a week if they push it? ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volthammer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 This morning I started with full 162 level gear on my marauder, I just got the last exhuman piece an hour ago, fully geared, augments in all slots, 2018 expertise. How long do you think it will take to get reaver? Ok so say I actually have a job and a life, and that I cant play 10-12 hours everyday. So rather than 5 days of farming, lets make it 10 or even 15. So 2 weeks to go from nothing to best PvP gear.. Did you really expect to just get inside and be on equal terms with others, if you havent even bothered to get geared? Can you name one MMO where a player can go from nothing to best PvP gear in less than a week if they push it? ^^ Personally I understand where you're coming from. What many fail, or refuse, to realize, however, is that the majority of players coming into PvP don't want to "pay their dues" through getting curb stomped for weeks on end with vast gear disparities. I think it's one reason ranked 8v8 died. Sorry, man. It's just the way it is. People want gear rewards. That's understandable. The bonuses on the gear, as the tiers progress, should not be so greatly apart that people new to the WZ's have very little chance to be of any effect at all vs. players that have been at it for months or years. I don't know what the solution is. I just know that simply because the minority of "hardcore" PvP'ers want everyone else to endure weeks of getting wrecked hour after hour while their own toon amounts to little more than a trash mob till they can earn that coveted top tier PvP gear doesn't mean they'll get it their way. It's simply not reasonable. If I understand correctly, one reason why Call of Duty: Black Ops PvP has been so monumentally successful is because the game really is based far more on actual player skill rather than massive gear inequalities. People keep playing it year after year and continue having a blast without having to "pay their dues" vs. players who's gear is so far superior that they stand little to no chance against them until they've endured weeks of misery becoming equally equipped. I suppose that "hardcore l33t d33pz" MMO PvP'ers will never understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Just hit 60 on a toon last night and went into my first match fully geared in augmented Dark Reaver. I didn't even do anything special other than stop pve'ing between 55 and 58 so i could make sure i had enough comms when i hit 60. Gear cannot and should not be used as an excuse anymore now that it is so easy to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Since the new update, I have been following stats, last night we did a que, unranked, our team managed 3 kills, the opposing team over 200. Here is what I see the problem is with the new system. Since everything is purchased with the same PvP rewards, your ranked geared players are farming unranked que's. I Love PVP, however, its getting rather diheartening at this point when you are being farmed every single WZ. Yes gear is cheaper, which I like, however, I have to loose Four matches to getting any WZ comms. Play a round, see what its like in game. This is not something new, hence not something that came with the latest patch. You're describing the discrepancy in passion, skill and know how that exist within the game, you got those who just jump in and play and you got those who test moves, rotation, kiting tactics, mod setups and on and on, then you got all those in between. The 'problem' you are addressing is devotion to ones pvp game, as in ones own performance and how to explore and develop as a pvper, the curiosity that drives people to watch youtube clips to get better, those who actually reads guides and test them. BW tried to address and simplify that for the average player by implementing the disciplines to make that aspect of the game more accessible, as the decision to lower prices on gear and scrap ranked comms. The only way to make this 'problem' to go away, is to get your own level of play closer to those who have the amount of passion for the swtor pvp that you describe as a 'problem' . . . Edited July 25, 2015 by t-darko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I do not believe you people understand the complexity of this mess. As some of you were in ranked warzones, I am sure you remember what happened, and that was guilds would fix the matches in ranked warzones so each side could farm ranked comms. After that nobody was allowed to load into a wwarzone with a full 8 man team. Now for them to fix the qu match up team wise, they would have to allow 8 man teams to qu up together into warzones, and this would mean back track and in some way admitting they goofed. The chances of that happening are slim to none. It would also mean putting warzones back in the ranked, and my bet arenas would die out shortly there after. Something else they would have to admit was a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMaulUK Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Since the new update, I have been following stats, last night we did a que, unranked, our team managed 3 kills, the opposing team over 200. Here is what I see the problem is with the new system. Since everything is purchased with the same PvP rewards, your ranked geared players are farming unranked que's. I Love PVP, however, its getting rather diheartening at this point when you are being farmed every single WZ. Yes gear is cheaper, which I like, however, I have to loose Four matches to getting any WZ comms. Play a round, see what its like in game. Sorry but if those in regs can't do the math, they deserve to get farmed. I for one am sick of seeing players without 2018 expertise at lvl60. Its not hard to get even in mids/lowbie. Players that stupid, deserve what they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) What many fail, or refuse, to realize, however, is that the majority of players coming into PvP don't want to "pay their dues" through getting curb stomped for weeks on end with vast gear disparities. Worse is : There's a dev team expecting people to "pay their dues" exactly like this. The 'problem' you are addressing is devotion to ones pvp game, as in ones own performance and how to explore and develop as a pvper, the curiosity that drives people to watch youtube clips to get better, those who actually reads guides and test them. [snip] The only way to make this 'problem' to go away, is to get your own level of play closer to those who have the amount of passion for the swtor pvp that you describe as a 'problem' . . . And then there are those who destroy unskilled Lowbies with a passion as well ... Just because it is so much fun in making others feel weak. The problem are not the PvP players who play for PvP. The problem are those PvP players who play PvP because they want to destroy and dominate others, making them feel weak and tortured. Sadists, in the end. The problem are also PvP players who try to scarre people away because they do not want any form of competiotion - and EPECIALLY not from new players ! True PvP players wouldn't want that. True PvP players always want new players for competition. They would't try to scare people away, because scaring people away would make the game more and more boring, playing with the same people over and obver again, like in an Oligarchy or even in an almost Monopoly. But, on the other hand, some PvP players might even prefer an Oligarchy ... Ranking - how it is right now - does 2 things : - Ranking makes people wanting to boost their Ego by getting in a high rank - and then being able to boast about it. "Look, what a good player I am !" - It makes people scare away Newbies to Ranked PvP, because they fear that these Newbies could drag their Rank down. It makes people getting bullied because they choose to play classes which are likely to drag other PvP players' Rank down. Sorry but if those in regs can't do the math, they deserve to get farmed. Players that stupid, deserve what they get. Doesn't sound very social to me. Edited July 25, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Worse is : There's a dev team expecting people to "pay their dues" exactly like this. And then there are those who destroy unskilled Lowbies with a passion as well ... Just because it is so much fun in making others feel weak. The problem are not the PvP players who play for PvP. The problem are those PvP players who play PvP because they want to destroy and dominate others, making them feel weak and tortured. Sadists, in the end. The problem are also PvP players who try to scarre people away because they do not want any form of competiotion - and EPECIALLY not from new players ! True PvP players wouldn't want that. True PvP players always want new players for competition. They would't try to scare people away, because scaring people away would make the game more and more boring, playing with the same people over and obver again, like in an Oligarchy or even in an almost Monopoly. But, on the other hand, some PvP players might even prefer an Oligarchy ... Ranking - how it is right now - does 2 things : - Ranking makes people wanting to boost their Ego by getting in a high rank - and then being able to boast about it. "Look, what a good player I am !" - It makes people scare away Newbies to Ranked PvP, because they fear that these Newbies could drag their Rank down. It makes people getting bullied because they choose to play classes which are likely to drag other PvP players' Rank down. Doesn't sound very social to me. We've had this discussion before, competition by definition means that 1 wins and 1 loses, and it's never 'fun' to lose. And I do feel you're a bit trigger happy here and swings to all sides, never minding what you hit as long as you do, - hit . . . aimlessly!! However you're right in one thing!! And that is that only the pvp community can make the pvp community grow. We are past the cross server discussion, we are past the engine discussion, now we just need to get past the pre-made discussion, the ganking discussion. What needs to be done and how is the biggest issue we have here I think. Educating in low and midbies is a crucial act now and I do not just think of tactical matters in a wz, how bolster works is another important matter, gear, mods expertise all of this needs to be adressed where the players are, in the wz, and it need to be done in a fashion that doesn't come across as a rage rant. How do we increase population in Ranked; preseason is important here - and in that call out for trail arenas!? If you got a pvp guild that really takes responsibility towards the pvp community and its growth; invite on fleet to participate in educational matches, create opsgroups with a session of pre entry info, practical execution, and post match feedback. And player driven event as this one or one are crucial to get the devs attention to what we want and need to thrive. You've been here as long as I and it's easy to get cynical but, now is the time for the pvp community to really become a community . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 This is not something new, hence not something that came with the latest patch. You're describing the discrepancy in passion, skill and know how that exist within the game, you got those who just jump in and play and you got those who test moves, rotation, kiting tactics, mod setups and on and on, then you got all those in between. The 'problem' you are addressing is devotion to ones pvp game, as in ones own performance and how to explore and develop as a pvper, the curiosity that drives people to watch youtube clips to get better, those who actually reads guides and test them. BW tried to address and simplify that for the average player by implementing the disciplines to make that aspect of the game more accessible, as the decision to lower prices on gear and scrap ranked comms. The only way to make this 'problem' to go away, is to get your own level of play closer to those who have the amount of passion for the swtor pvp that you describe as a 'problem' . . . I find this debate here on time investment to be capable in PVP to be funny for SWTOR. Only because I gripe about another game where even at max level, it takes a lot of time and currency to gear up even close and coming into it late you will always be behind due to a constant progression mechanic. SWTOR it's just gear which stas where it is at for several months, is easier than ever to aquire and with bolster, you can come in very close outside of optimization and maybe 5-10% behind rather than other games 25% just from a single time gated character stats not even counting gear. All you have to do is ask in chat or forum or Google and you will know in minutes what to do. Sure, it's convoluted and not intuitive but it is the easiest to jump into with just a little info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendraniss Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 I was almost hesitant to make the first post, as I can see, many will assume I am a Noob, not geared, etc. Which is not the case. I play for Pvp, its why I am on a Pvp server. 3 of my toons have 2018 expertise. I have "payeed my dues" so to speak to get the gear. (pre 3.3). Two of my characters are half reaver. Still does not change the stats. When one side is making over 200 to 300 kills, the other not even 10 kills, there is a problem. No matter truly the gear score. If one of my toons, half reaver, cannot damage another player, and yet be killed by same player in under 10 seconds, there is something uneven on the way teams are being addressed. If your group qued, should be against another group. But to que single, unranked, and be wiped every game.....as not everyone gets the opportunity to have all guild members on at the same time. You will discourage new players from Pvping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 People still trying to complain about a gear gap are down right hilarious. My most recent 60 was in min/maxed reg gear with 8 pieces of ranked gear and that's just what I had left over comm wise from 55 + maybe 10 matches while leveling. If you actually PVP while you level from 10, you can easily get full ranked gear the instant you ding. The only thing remotely worth complaining about gear wise is augments, kits, and augmenting gear are hugely expensive if you don't do PVE dailies/craft etc. Maybe back in vanilla there was a gear gap, that has certainly not been the case since. Battlemaster or recruit gear to EWH with no bolster was rough, nothing in this game has come close since and I don't even think BM to EWH was that bad honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 People still trying to complain about a gear gap are down right hilarious. My most recent 60 was in min/maxed reg gear with 8 pieces of ranked gear and that's just what I had left over comm wise from 55 + maybe 10 matches while leveling. If you actually PVP while you level from 10, you can easily get full ranked gear the instant you ding. The only thing remotely worth complaining about gear wise is augments, kits, and augmenting gear are hugely expensive if you don't do PVE dailies/craft etc. Maybe back in vanilla there was a gear gap, that has certainly not been the case since. Battlemaster or recruit gear to EWH with no bolster was rough, nothing in this game has come close since and I don't even think BM to EWH was that bad honestly. As someone who just took a toon to 60 yesterday i agree. I had enough comms to buy full dark reaver and swap out the mods that needed swapping. All i did was queue while leveling and even then i did far more PVE than PvP barring 55-58 which i only queued. If you put no effort into getting PvP gear then you only have yourself to blame seeing as it's so easy now. It's only something like 4k comms for exhumed and another 15 for DR now lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Since the new update, I have been following stats, last night we did a que, unranked, our team managed 3 kills, the opposing team over 200. Here is what I see the problem is with the new system. Since everything is purchased with the same PvP rewards, your ranked geared players are farming unranked que's. I Love PVP, however, its getting rather diheartening at this point when you are being farmed every single WZ. Yes gear is cheaper, which I like, however, I have to loose Four matches to getting any WZ comms. Play a round, see what its like in game. In the interest of full disclosure, I stopped reading after the third sentence when you started to blame BW for making it easy as pie to completely min/max your brand new 60 in the best possible gear. I mean...I know you cannot make everyone happy, but you're complaining about something that is literally the polar opposite of what every fresh, nub, casual and pug has been complaining about for YEARS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I was almost hesitant to make the first post, as I can see, many will assume I am a Noob, not geared, etc. Which is not the case. I play for Pvp, its why I am on a Pvp server. 3 of my toons have 2018 expertise. I have "payeed my dues" so to speak to get the gear. (pre 3.3). Two of my characters are half reaver. Still does not change the stats. When one side is making over 200 to 300 kills, the other not even 10 kills, there is a problem. No matter truly the gear score. If one of my toons, half reaver, cannot damage another player, and yet be killed by same player in under 10 seconds, there is something uneven on the way teams are being addressed. If your group qued, should be against another group. But to que single, unranked, and be wiped every game.....as not everyone gets the opportunity to have all guild members on at the same time. You will discourage new players from Pvping. Nope, you don't necessary need to be a N00b to still have things to discover, I have both won and lost by the numbers you have described, it kinda would make me a average player. What it boils down to is your team mates experience and if there's a presence of enough competent healers and protectors of those. In the right team you will win more then you lose. But is it BW who should make that happen? In regs, nah, in solo Ranked? well if the population support such a system it would be great but as we know our population is to small to make that work fully. Team ranked is a swell place to make your team work. Bottom line, BW can't spoon feed every single detail and moment in this game . . . some where does that responsibility end and the community responsibility begin, and I will argue that this is that moment in this game where the community's responsibility need to step in and get better. What you describe as a hard to impossible kill only comes out as you trying to kill the player being healed instead of going after the one doing the healing . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Posting that everyone should be (as good as the person posting) and that almost everyone else is (insert negative characterizations here) might be pleasurable as some form of mental self pleasuring, but does little to further a reasonable discussion of the issue. Which is, that guarded heals in randomly queued warzones are too much of a challenge. The options are, to massively increase DPS, reduce heals significantly, or to reduce the amount of damage transference significantly. I vote for the latter. Edited July 26, 2015 by MotorCityMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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