Patch 3.3 healing changes

[Gyronamics]

So you now have a spammable heal, why don't you check out the new capacity to heal to full.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8334764#post8334764

 

Will only cost you everything and take a while.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Zoom_VI]

Basically, IO just got screwed over and Gunnery got a survivability buff, at the cost of doing even less DPS.

 

In fact I'm fairly convinced that for 8v8s where you have respawns, it's probably equal or better DPS to not heal yourself and just let yourself die and respawn, than it is to keep yourself alive.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[Lalainnia]

Does no one even talk about the actual combat medics ya know what the freaking patch was really for?

[belhawk]

adv med probe is back with trainer, a BUG lol. no mane and little details and u have seven levels of it. bw will correct this bug fast

[Gyronamics]

That's Medical Probe without a name or tooltip.

 

It heals for roughly the same as Bacta Infusion.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

This also introduced an interesting thing for Gunnery/Arsenal and Assault/Inno Ord. You can now Pre-charge your 5 stacks of Charged Barrier before combat, allowing for constant 5% Damage Reduction.

[Gyronamics]

PTS forum has been wiped again.

[Faardor]

So you now have a spammable heal, why don't you check out the new capacity to heal to full.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8332255#post8332255

 

Will only cost you everything and take a while.

 

Its the same for all healing classes now. DPS sorcs can't do it, DPS Operatives dont even have a spammable heal worth a damn (good luck healing to full with diagnostic scan). There is no problem here except an invisible one that you perceive to have

[Gyronamics]

Its the same for all healing classes now. DPS sorcs can't do it, DPS Operatives dont even have a spammable heal worth a damn (good luck healing to full with diagnostic scan). There is no problem here except an invisible one that you perceive to have

 

Wrong.

 

I am not in favour of healing to full. I am in favour of vastly more practical heals as part of improving Merc DPS survivability in PVP. They are not the same thing.

 

DPS Sorcs can't do what now?

 

Telekinetics

 

 

*edit: and here's a BiS Sage at level 60 because doubters.

 

Bit critty so maybe a couple less Benevolences than average.

 

Gunnery

 

 

Assault

 

 

Heal to full is not even slightly the point or on the agenda so take it off your mind.

 

Neither is there a desire to equal what Sages have.

 

The very simple objective is.... better healing.... no extra grief....

 

With high emphasis that pre-3.0 heals were better in every aspect even when removing the AOE factor of Kolto Missile.

 

The primary no-CD cast heal was a large healing value, 25 cost and 2s cast time.

 

Now it's half that healing value, 20 or 15 cost and 1.5s cast time. For increased cost/healing, increased time to heal and worse healing per cast. PLUS new factors to cripple DPS tied to them.

 

The instant heal of Kolto Missile on a 6s CD is replaced with Emergency Scan for the same healing value on a 20s CD.

 

Tell me that pre-3.0 DPS Merc had unreasonably good healing, a powerful resource system to back up the healing output and was highly survivable pre-3.0.

 

No?

 

Offhealing got crushed all the same.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Faardor]

Youre level 50, healing 50k health is a big difference compared to 10k.

 

65 force each for the cast of dark heal

 

heals for 5k on average

 

you would have to nearly use all of your force to spam dark heal to heal to full. Obviously you'll probably get a crit or two so its reduced but the same can be said about rapid scan. I can take into account resurgence and unnatural prerservation which would reduce it but you're still in the danger zones of being unable to properly do your DPS rotation after healing to full. If youre not healing to full your point is moot also.

 

THIS ^ is why its balanced

No off healer class can heal to full without screwing up his DPS rotation afterwards because of energy issues.

 

Kolto missile was too strong of a tool to keep on mercenaries, a 4 man heal that you throw out instantly (8 man now) is too good to not throw in somewhere all the time, remember the gimmick full bounty hunter run of HM revan? Yeah if bounty hunters had kolto missile that wouldve been 2x as worse.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Faardor

[Gyronamics]

How can you ignore totally that I did not use just Benevolence.

 

I used Force Mend (free), Rejuvenate (both while on the move) then Benevolence.

 

The healing package allows a Sage DPS to heal up extremely rapidly with no drama.

 

Let me quote myself to void the rest of what you said.

 

With high emphasis that pre-3.0 heals were better in every aspect even when removing the AOE factor of Kolto Missile.

 

And to repeat myself, healing to full is not the point.

 

It wasn't possible before 3.0 for Merc DPS without major resource drama, it's less possible now.

 

Across the board the healing package is crippled and it does not feel justified since there was no dominance of Merc DPS pre-3.0 and there are still survivability issues now.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Faardor]

How can you ignore totally that I did not use just Benevolence.

 

I used Force Mend (free), Rejuvenate (both while on the move) then Benevolence.

 

The healing package allows a Sage DPS to heal up extremely rapidly with no drama.

 

Let me quote myself to void the rest of what you said.

 

I saw them being casted, it was also on a lvl 50 toon so the point is moot. again 10k vs 50k

I dont think that mercenaries need more healing at all when compared to the off healing capabilities of other classes. Remember that bioware stated that the numbers for 3.0 were going to not provide significant increases of DPS or Heals. This is all a design choice, just because you want bigger numbers youve seen in 3.0 doesn't mean they should be there.

 

Also using force mend kinda ruins the comparison as well. Mercs dont have any equivalent. Rapid scan is the equivalent of dark heal while emergency scan is the equivalent of resurgence (or at least thats how bioware sees it)

 

Yes mercs need more ways to not die but not from healing increases (unless its on something like adrenaline rush)

Edited July 23, 2015 by Faardor

[TheJollyRogers]

Basically, IO just got screwed over

 

Actually, I quite like the changes. I get a free rapid scan after mag shots, and I'm not stuck behind a pillar waiting for healing scan to come back up. Plus, rapid scan stacks supercharges and power barriers. RS only costs us 15 heat instead of the 20 it costs Arsenal/Bodyguard.

 

I much prefer this than before 3.3. The only sticking point is that Power Surge + Healing Scan + Emergency Scan was better burst healing.

 

Also, you really shouldn't be waiting until you're at 10% to start healing and then trying to heal yourself to 100%. I found a lot of success in tossing in quick rapid scans any time I could, like breaking LoS.

[Gyronamics]

I saw them being casted, it was also on a lvl 50 toon so the point is moot. again 10k vs 50k

I dont think that mercenaries need more healing at all when compared to the off healing capabilities of other classes. Remember that bioware stated that the numbers for 3.0 were going to not provide significant increases of DPS or Heals. This is all a design choice, just because you want bigger numbers youve seen in 3.0 doesn't mean they should be there.

 

Also using force mend kinda ruins the comparison as well. Mercs dont have any equivalent. Rapid scan is the equivalent of dark heal while emergency scan is the equivalent of resurgence (or at least thats how bioware sees it)

 

If you want a direct comparison then Benevolence heals for ~5k on a BiS Sage while Rapid Scan heals for ~4k on a BiS Merc. These are numbers from myself and an equally geared Sage.

 

You'd like me to pretend that Force Mend and Rejuvenate isn't on the table for Sages because Mercs don't have it? Or that Mercs don't suffer quite a lot by overextending resources into low regen....

 

That's not how it works but the comparison isn't between sages and mercs, that was your angle. I gave you proof that you're under an illusion that Sage DPS cannot do a heal to full with extreme ease.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Floplag]

Basically, IO just got screwed over and Gunnery got a survivability buff, at the cost of doing even less DPS.

 

In fact I'm fairly convinced that for 8v8s where you have respawns, it's probably equal or better DPS to not heal yourself and just let yourself die and respawn, than it is to keep yourself alive.

 

I'm not sure how this counts as a survivability buff for gunnery when it heals for less for the same cost.

The burst healing got nerfed, maybe total throughput go better but you wont have the time in combat or the resources to actually heal to full.

if it is a buff its a very very very slight one overall, but a nerf to burst healing which is more important in PVP

[Floplag]

Its the same for all healing classes now. DPS sorcs can't do it, DPS Operatives dont even have a spammable heal worth a damn (good luck healing to full with diagnostic scan). There is no problem here except an invisible one that you perceive to have

 

Negative, it isnt the same when our costs twice as much resources to do less heals overall. just because its spammable does not make it an apples to apples conversation... your overall throughput is FAR higher not even counting the emergency heal.

[Gyronamics]

I saw them being casted, it was also on a lvl 50 toon so the point is moot. again 10k vs 50k

 

Here you go, moot away.

 

 

Special request to backpedal while force speeding and healing because a Sage DPS can.

 

Cancel maybe 1 crit and call it another 1-2 Benevolences to get an average.

 

Like I said, don't try to present Sage DPS as weak at recovery healing.

 

Again, not a comparison with Sages, just an answer to "sages can't heal to full" from you. Now demonstrating level 60.

 

This is entirely about poor quality of offhealing on Merc DPS while Merc DPS continues to suffer in pvp from lack of survivability and my angle is that healing was made worse from pre-3.0 to 3.0 and did not improve in the recent patch for no good reason on Merc DPS.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Zoom_VI]

I'm not sure how this counts as a survivability buff for gunnery when it heals for less for the same cost.

The burst healing got nerfed, maybe total throughput go better but you wont have the time in combat or the resources to actually heal to full.

if it is a buff its a very very very slight one overall, but a nerf to burst healing which is more important in PVP

 

Charged Barrel stacks also increase the healing done by medical probe by 20% per stack. Which means at five stacks, medical probe heals as much as a medpack does. Unfortunately it also means that you just spent 20 ammo and 5 CB stacks. Which means that you need to spam grav hard to get stacks back before the next HiB, which means dropping a Blazing Bolts somewhere, which in turn means a even bigger DPS loss.

 

Hence better healing for gunnery but with a DPS loss.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[Zoom_VI]

Here you go, moot away.

 

 

Special request to backpedal while force speeding and healing because a Sage DPS can.

 

Cancel maybe 1 crit and call it another 1-2 Benevolences to get an average.

 

Like I said, don't try to present Sage DPS as weak at recovery healing.

 

Again, not a comparison with Sages, just an answer to "sages can't heal to full" from you. Now demonstrating level 60.

 

This is entirely about poor quality of offhealing on Merc DPS while Merc DPS continues to suffer in pvp from lack of survivability and my angle is that healing was made worse from pre-3.0 to 3.0 and did not improve in the recent patch for no good reason on Merc DPS.

 

 

To be fair that video was done outside of the base PvP trauma debuff. Thus the healing numbers where much higher than it would be in warzone.

[Gyronamics]

Many things are different.

 

Health values are lower, PVP debuff, Combat Trauma, Stats, Bolster.

 

The videos demonstrate how very poor the healing quality is on a Merc DPS. Doing so again in a warzone is not going to make it look any better.

 

You can see the healing values relative to the health, the resource shredding to do healing and it says it all really.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Are you seriously making this post under the assumption that the ONLY thing a Commando can do to heal is to use Medical Probe? As in you don't own Bacta Infusion (free and instant) or Med Shot (yes weak, but can be used on the move and is also free) for your comparison? And if you notice, your OP Sage self healing leaves the Sage at roughly 60% Force. That's a bit of a detriment to continuing to function if you need to eat up 40% of your resource pool while contributing no damage to your group along with the fact that they would not be going into that with full Force. I can go on, but I'll wait for the rainbow of text to show up.

[Floplag]

Charged Barrel stacks also increase the healing done by medical probe by 20% per stack. Which means at five stacks, medical probe heals as much as a medpack does. Unfortunately it also means that you just spent 20 ammo and 5 CB stacks. Which means that you need to spam grav hard to get stacks back before the next HiB, which means dropping a Blazing Bolts somewhere, which in turn means a even bigger DPS loss.

 

Hence better healing for gunnery but with a DPS loss.

 

Fair enough assuming you have those 5 stacks in place, and ready to use, fine, but as you say it isnt exactly the best way to use those stacks... i wouldn't call it a buff overall.

[Theodulus]

Does no one even talk about the actual combat medics ya know what the freaking patch was really for?

The 3 people still playing the spec don't care anymore. I can't judge by a single sample but I lost about 150hps. Could be a bad warzone though. Not sure if I care to play my combat medic anymore because frankly I felt like I still was playing a handicapped class and spec that no one wants on their team.

 

The experience was about the same as usual. I do about 30% less hps than on my sage healer since combat medics aren't as good at padding numbers as the other classes. Energy management issues about 3 seconds into the match. Poor burst when your stuff don't crit. Yes you can still heal someone to full that's being focused and almost globalled by picking the power surge utility and blow every cooldown you have for burst healing if the stars align. I feel no quality of life improvements at all.

 

In fact I have barely played as sage healer but I can effortlessly put out 30% more hps on it. Is it fluff healing? Perhaps but I'm a firm believer that fluff healing is important since the guy about to be globalled can't and shouldn't be saved in the first place since saving him would mean me entering low regen rate.

[Gyronamics]

Are you seriously making this post under the assumption that the ONLY thing a Commando can do to heal is to use Medical Probe? As in you don't own Bacta Infusion (free and instant) or Med Shot (yes weak, but can be used on the move and is also free) for your comparison? And if you notice, your OP Sage self healing leaves the Sage at roughly 60% Force. That's a bit of a detriment to continuing to function if you need to eat up 40% of your resource pool while contributing no damage to your group along with the fact that they would not be going into that with full Force. I can go on, but I'll wait for the rainbow of text to show up.

 

Get back in your box or play a class you want to engage in a debate about.

 

Bacta Infusion is not free, is on a 20s cooldown, heals for a mediocre value only slightly more than a Medical Probe and above all you failed to read the multiple statements every time I was forced to reference Sages that this was not a comparision with Sages. Read the thread.

 

The sage video is there to demonstrate otherwise to someone that described Sage DPS as unable to heal to full in the same sentence as operatives and mercs. So I arranged a video of a Sage DPS healing to full very rapidly at level 50 then level 60. While running round a pillar. Backwards.

 

Standing entirely on its own without needing to compare with another class is the highly reduced capacity to heal on a Merc DPS ever since 3.0 hit. A change to healing just went past which did nothing good for Merc DPS and all this time there has been and continues to be issues of PVP survivability.

 

Since you don't seem to be aware I'll sum up the changes which just happened.

 

Increased resource pressure by halving heal value but keeping 100% or 75% of the cost

Crippling DPS mechanics to glue on "value" to the new heal by consuming DPS procs

Longer to get the same value of one previous heal aka reduced burst healing

 

And why?

 

To give a "spammable" cast heal.

 

Not that it makes any difference to someone dropping in and thinking its a sage vs merc comparison thread.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Octagon]

I put medical probe on my tool bar Wednesday and took it back off on Thursday.

 

1. It eats up too much ammo and takes too long to be of much value.

2. If you're down to standing still to hard cast a self heal your team is either toast or stomping heads there doesn't seem to be much middle ground.

3. If I'm going to spend 2 seconds casting something I'm going to hurl a plasma grenade. That way at least I can watch people burn as I die.