jauvtus Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Problem being attaching that to countermeasures would have a pretty big impact on PVE, would it not? :/ No, really not, PT, jugg, mara, sin, sorc, merc all have utilities tied to their aggro drop ability, some use it as defcd, some use it as raidbuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 ..Yes, because I was totally referring to when an operative is the only threat at the moment. Even then.. guess what you do? Wait until the op has rolled twice.. then.. guess what? *gasp* You stun him, and your team kills him easily! Next level tactics right there, though, so it's probably not worth it to think about. Also, about the huttball thing, the roll resist doesn't protect from the traps, so you'll take 1-2 ticks from the fire, and if you're stupid enough to roll into the acid in queshball, you'll get the Hindered debuff applied to you and you won't be able to roll out of it. Additionally, if your "entire team" has an issue with stopping ONE operative from stopping caps for more than like, 20-30 seconds at the most, then most of the problem is with your team, and not the operative rolling. Correction, if you stand at the edge of the acid in Queshball you can roll straight through the acid and not receive the hindered debuff, works for all specs too not just Concealment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thank you for pointing out what I was too lazy to type. I wonder, would people be ok with other classes having that much invincibility up time? I really don't think so. Oh stop crying because you got owned by operatives, the operative roll is just that a roll they can't do anything else when it is used. If it weren't for the roll operatives would drop like flies. Other classes have similar immunity. Whats sins is it 12 seconds? with deflection? I forget the cooldown and they can still use their abilities during the whole of this. Like hold the line with pts i know they can be stunned but they can do damage here. Then we have maras who now get twelve seconds out of every 60 when they play fury. The point is if operative roll needs sorting then so do these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosIsGolden Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Operative roll is powerful, but it's also their cool down, let's face it not every operative/scoundrel even knows how to use the roll correctly for either dps spec. If you're going to complain about the operative/scoundrel roll lets ***** about a few other classes with cooldowns that make them difficult to kill. Sorcs/Sages, Assassins/Shadows, PT/Vanguards, etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Operative roll is powerful, but it's also their cool down, let's face it not every operative/scoundrel even knows how to use the roll correctly for either dps spec. If you're going to complain about the operative/scoundrel roll lets ***** about a few other classes with cooldowns that make them difficult to kill. Sorcs/Sages, Assassins/Shadows, PT/Vanguards, etc., etc. about the only two classes that aren't too difficult to kill are maras and mercs. OP roll is obnoxious but I'd just like to see the ability to roll through acid and fire traps in huttball taken away. I realize how much of a pain 2-3 ops keeping a node from being capped can be but news flash, pt's, juggs, and assassins can do the same thing. Bonus if you have a sniper with you so the can drop orbital on node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 about the only two classes that aren't too difficult to kill are maras and mercs. OP roll is obnoxious but I'd just like to see the ability to roll through acid and fire traps in huttball taken away. I realize how much of a pain 2-3 ops keeping a node from being capped can be but news flash, pt's, juggs, and assassins can do the same thing. Bonus if you have a sniper with you so the can drop orbital on node. All they need to do there is change is so the fire or acid even affects concealment's roll. That way its still a cooldown yet in huttball it would kill all ops if they try to roll through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Oh stop crying because you got owned by operatives, the operative roll is just that a roll they can't do anything else when it is used. If it weren't for the roll operatives would drop like flies. Other classes have similar immunity. Whats sins is it 12 seconds? with deflection? I forget the cooldown and they can still use their abilities during the whole of this. Like hold the line with pts i know they can be stunned but they can do damage here. Then we have maras who now get twelve seconds out of every 60 when they play fury. The point is if operative roll needs sorting then so do these. Man, musta hit a nerve, lol. Edited July 17, 2015 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Man, musta hit a nerve, lol. lol nope just find you funny all you do is complain about this when your on a vg. Edited July 17, 2015 by stephenalandavie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 lol nope just find you funny all you do is complain about this when your on a vg. In his defense his sig says Plasmatech, which is literally the single most underpowered spec in PvP right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 1. Evasion doesn't provide immunity to anything except for white damage. Which is... exactly 1 mezz, and 1 root (low slash and leg shot), and a handful of meh attacks (except for Ambush, I guess)..it counters quite a lot of the stuff on a BH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ITT: People complain who want to 1 v 1 operatives and mash buttons in their general direction instead of thinking. unfortunately, this game forces you to 1v1 operatives on most maps. it's like free candy for an IQ over 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrilian Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If i'm left to defend a node alone... whelp, gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 In his defense his sig says Plasmatech, which is literally the single most underpowered spec in PvP right now. Yep, I play plasmatech / pyro exclusively, and have -actually- been told it is an OP ez mode spec by a certain person on a guild I shall not name.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 In his defense his sig says Plasmatech, which is literally the single most underpowered spec in PvP right now. That is true but its his choice of spec isn't it?. no one forced him to play that spec. But the movement utilities of which i speak aren't tied to a spec are they. For so long operatives were bottom of the barrel i think it was 1.2 wasn't it they gutted ops?. dps that is. They are the middle of the pack when it comes to dps. Concealment has nice burst but so do a lot of specs which are even better. My point is the game has many mechanics like the roll which would need looking at if roll was to be changed. As we all know dps ops don't have much in the way of passive mitigation it requires the player to be active in this respect. Taking away some of that would require it to be moved elsewhere in their abilities. I will say this though roll shouldn't get through the fire pits in huttball that should be changed so fire affects even concealment's roll. Didn't they have to do something similar to sorc force armor is it? Their holy crap button you know which i mean . An operative might win 1 v 1 but this game as we all know is not based around this concept or we would have 1 v 1 arenas. Its based around 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 i would think wouldn't you?. And we both know many other classes which bring much more to the table than an operative. Look at it this way you could stick a chimp on a keyboard with a PT AP and it would still be god class the same cant be said for an operative look how many bad ones are out there. Even a bad PT does immense dmg. I am doing this on my mobile so forgive the poor format, punctuation etc lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 That is true but its his choice of spec isn't it?. no one forced him to play that spec. But the movement utilities of which i speak aren't tied to a spec are they. For so long operatives were bottom of the barrel i think it was 1.2 wasn't it they gutted ops?. dps that is. They are the middle of the pack when it comes to dps. Concealment has nice burst but so do a lot of specs which are even better. My point is the game has many mechanics like the roll which would need looking at if roll was to be changed. As we all know dps ops don't have much in the way of passive mitigation it requires the player to be active in this respect. Taking away some of that would require it to be moved elsewhere in their abilities. I will say this though roll shouldn't get through the fire pits in huttball that should be changed so fire affects even concealment's roll. Didn't they have to do something similar to sorc force armor is it? Their holy crap button you know which i mean . An operative might win 1 v 1 but this game as we all know is not based around this concept or we would have 1 v 1 arenas. Its based around 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 i would think wouldn't you?. And we both know many other classes which bring much more to the table than an operative. Look at it this way you could stick a chimp on a keyboard with a PT AP and it would still be god class the same cant be said for an operative look how many bad ones are out there. Even a bad PT does immense dmg. I am doing this on my mobile so forgive the poor format, punctuation etc lol It may not be balanced around 1 v 1, but 1 v 1 happens a lot in 8 v 8s when it comes to node guarding, and one class shouldn't have 25 percent invincibility up time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 It may not be balanced around 1 v 1, but 1 v 1 happens a lot in 8 v 8s when it comes to node guarding, and one class shouldn't have 25 percent invincibility up time. 1. Not invincible 25% of the time 2. without it they would be less than useless as dps. 3. They are meant to be what you state if an operative gets close on you with you being a mando then he should win aslong as he knows what he is doing. Its a close quarters class mando isn't ergo in close quarters op should win. Ofc number 3 is contingent on the operative being equal geared and knows his abilities and how to play. Their are some drels and ops out there who just don't roll when they should and they drop in the blink of an eye. If operative roll is to be gutted then that mitigation needs placing elsewhere its as simple as that. The roll will be calculated into the operatives defensive's metrics i.e taking it away from concealment will gut the spec defensive capabilities when it already isn't OP. A good operative can be pesky this is true but so can a well played sin and even more so. When classes stack its always going to be hell for the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) 1. Not invincible 25% of the time 2. without it they would be less than useless as dps. 3. They are meant to be what you state if an operative gets close on you with you being a mando then he should win aslong as he knows what he is doing. Its a close quarters class mando isn't ergo in close quarters op should win. Ofc number 3 is contingent on the operative being equal geared and knows his abilities and how to play. Their are some drels and ops out there who just don't roll when they should and they drop in the blink of an eye. If operative roll is to be gutted then that mitigation needs placing elsewhere its as simple as that. The roll will be calculated into the operatives defensive's metrics i.e taking it away from concealment will gut the spec defensive capabilities when it already isn't OP. A good operative can be pesky this is true but so can a well played sin and even more so. When classes stack its always going to be hell for the other team. Up time of 13.84 seconds per minute, that is slightly under 25 percent, so yes, they are literally invincible 23 percent of the time if you want to get technical. And lol if you really think that they -should- wn if they get close, so by your logic, commandos should have 0 chance against stealth classes because we cannot stealth scan 360° around us at all times and their stealth detection is near 0. All credibility out the window. Edited July 17, 2015 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Up time of 13.84 seconds per minute, that is slightly under 25 percent, so yes, they are literally invincible 23 percent of the time if you want to get technical. And lol if you really think that they -should- wn if they get close, so by your logic, commandos should have 0 chance against stealth classes because we cannot stealth scan 360° around us at all times and their stealth detection is near 0. All credibility out the window. Have you played one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Up time of 13.84 seconds per minute, that is slightly under 25 percent, so yes, they are literally invincible 23 percent of the time if you want to get technical. And lol if you really think that they -should- wn if they get close, so by your logic, commandos should have 0 chance against stealth classes because we cannot stealth scan 360° around us at all times and their stealth detection is near 0. All credibility out the window. You clearly have a hate for them your completely biased yes your credibility goes out the window you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I don't have an operative and I know they can be a pain at times but roll shouldn't be nerfed into the ground. Does it need a slight nerf? Maybe. Atleast as far as the resistance goes so they can no longer roll through fire and acid on huttball. But it shouldn't be over nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Have you played one? Yes, I have played one extensively, it is a pretty easy pz class tbh. Not nearly as ez mode as say shadow or guardian, but it is way easier than say gunslinger or commando. Edited July 18, 2015 by mmmbuddah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 You clearly have a hate for them your completely biased yes your credibility goes out the window you are right. Yes, the person saying they should win 100% of the time when they get close to someone totally isn't the one that is biased, the person that says it should come down to player skill and balance is clearly the one who is biased, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Yes, the person saying they should win 100% of the time when they get close to someone totally isn't the one that is biased, the person that says it should come down to player skill and balance is clearly the one who is biased, lol. Did you read what i put at all? I said if the operative is of average skill and all gear being equal and aslong as the mando isn't a top tier player (Whats left of them). Then in close quarters the operative should win. Your class the mando isn't meant for close quarters you are supposed to engage at range. The fact is you play your choice of class. Which happens to show how useless it is in pvp does that mean its the operatives fault for its roll? no its bioware fault you have no DCDs or anything of the sort. Do you not see how moronic your request is you are calling for a nerf of a class which is middle of the pack lol. Its your class which is underpowered Look at which classes are at the top or average they are the majority these days. And BTW my main is a sin and i run an operative healer as well I am not biased in anyway I even mentioned earlier about Sins being OP for their cooldowns and utilities. See unlike you i know balance is swings and roundabouts when they make a change i adapt to that and enjoy my game time. Not spend 3/4s of it on here complaining lol Edited July 18, 2015 by stephenalandavie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themasterofevil Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I do agree with the OP only slightly. Concealment is a very squishy spec to play. But the roll should be an escape and not some kind of DCD on a 10s cooldown that can technically give them up to 3s of complete invincibility. I have no problem with the immunity in any other warzone except huttball. Electro net is easy to break. As long as you have cc popper up, pop it and you can roll, barrier, force speed, charge, whatever you need. Smart people break it and mitigate its damage using some kind of cooldown. And roots are useless because teammates just break them and white bar them so then roots are a slow. I get in QHB games where theres an operative that will carry it all the way up and we cant do anything because he/she has all the right utilities and heals to keep her/himself alive. Then its just a simple 2 rolls away from the goal line and you cant pushback or root because of the immunity. All abilities are resisted so you can't stun or electro net. Earlier today i was in a game where there was an operative that scored all 6 balls over and over because of the immunity granted from roll. I tried to push her off, stun, root, and whatever, but again the immunity prevents it. I think the immunity should be removed when carrying the huttball. They should be able to keep the immunity because of how easily an op can be shut down, but the ability to have 3s of complete immunity to everything in the game with the huttball is bs. Plus no other class in the game has anything on the level of it. The only thing relatable is Shadow and Sins shroud. Thats just what i think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I do agree with the OP only slightly. Concealment is a very squishy spec to play. But the roll should be an escape and not some kind of DCD on a 10s cooldown that can technically give them up to 3s of complete invincibility. I have no problem with the immunity in any other warzone except huttball. Electro net is easy to break. As long as you have cc popper up, pop it and you can roll, barrier, force speed, charge, whatever you need. Smart people break it and mitigate its damage using some kind of cooldown. And roots are useless because teammates just break them and white bar them so then roots are a slow. I get in QHB games where theres an operative that will carry it all the way up and we cant do anything because he/she has all the right utilities and heals to keep her/himself alive. Then its just a simple 2 rolls away from the goal line and you cant pushback or root because of the immunity. All abilities are resisted so you can't stun or electro net. Earlier today i was in a game where there was an operative that scored all 6 balls over and over because of the immunity granted from roll. I tried to push her off, stun, root, and whatever, but again the immunity prevents it. I think the immunity should be removed when carrying the huttball. They should be able to keep the immunity because of how easily an op can be shut down, but the ability to have 3s of complete immunity to everything in the game with the huttball is bs. Plus no other class in the game has anything on the level of it. The only thing relatable is Shadow and Sins shroud. Thats just what i think about this. Yea the fire pits and acid should affect the roll regardless they can easy do this BW they just won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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