Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire

[DarkDisturbed]

Because you've clearly played KotFE already based on what you're saying about it. Please, tell us exactly what is going on with crafting and companions, since you're so knowledgeable about the future content.

Again, you're interjecting when you seem to have little to no idea of what you are speaking about. Nobody was discussing anything pertaining to companions or crafting.

 

Next time you want to feel like a big man with a holier than thou attitude just remember nobody on the internet actually cares, man. Just read a self help book or something.

[idnewton]

If you really think that then you are not paying attention. It will be exactly how Makeb, Rishi, and Yavin were. I kind of feel sorry for you, being duped so hard you actually believe all of this.

 

You say that like I didn't enjoy Makeb, Rishi and Yavin. I feel sorry for you. It must be hard to be so picky. I can find enjoyment in whatever content they release. You, apparently, are not so lucky.

[Rujopetteri]

What story? It's the same story 8-16 times? It's mindless grinding after the first couple of times, you're doing it just to be "progressing" your characters through the story for the sake of doing so. How many games have you replayed 8+ times in succession?

 

Well, from the top of my head... KotOR1 and 2, all Dragon Age games expect the last one, which i'm still on my first play-through, all Mass Effects. The Longest Journey. The original Max Payne and some older classics way back when like the original Sam n' Max and others like that. I have about 10 play-throughs in all of those.

 

Great stories are what i like in games. The multiplayer aspect is just added bonus which i partake in only occasionally.

[idnewton]

Just because we enjoy all aspects of the game doesn't make us mentally inferior to you. I would say that it takes a superior intellect to appreciate all facets of the game and understand that allowing one side to fail will, ultimately hurt the other sides as well. Ignoring PvP caused many players to leave, so many so that 2 servers have nearly no population at all since server transfers are $1 each. Ignoring End Game will hurt the with additional loss of revenue. Then when there are only casual players left they can just stop releasing content all together. BW and SWTOR is taking a step backwards and not moving forwards in the Genre.

 

No, *I* enjoy all aspects of the game. You clearly do not, or else you would be fine with no new operations.

[Anishor]

Pssst. Don't mention horizontal progression. It must have a new texture. Possible new mechanics and challenging DPS checks aren't important. Horizontal progression is the devil.

 

Horizontal progression doesn't have to be bad. Just needs to be implemented well.

[teclado]

Like it or not, end game ops that require 8-16 are quite a large barrier to entry for a lot of players. Myself, for example. I started playing this game because I really wanted KOTOR III. I have not done most of the flashpoints because I didn't feel like making a group to do it, especially since in group mode, the pressure is on to spacebar through it, and you don't always get to personally control the dialogue, so the story no longer feels like your own. With solo mode, I will totally go through every single one, probably more than once. For the hard mode tacticals, it's going to be a lot easier to grab three friends, not care about level or gear or roles, and run them.

 

Looking at this from purely a numbers perspective, how many players do you think are endgame raiders who will cancel sub over not having new raids with 4.0? How many would love these changes that open the door for players to experience a lot more of the story on their own time, at their own pace, in a solo mode? I'm guessing EA/BW think that the second number is bigger than the first, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. Making up numbers, suppose that they lose 2% of their subscribers because of no new ops, but they gain 10% more subscribers who like the changes and will take the next year or more to go through all of the newly solo-able stuff? Is it worth it then? Yeah. They're not going to make a move like this without some serious financial analyses. Ultimately as a business, you look at the numbers, and make changes that you think will optimize your profits. Sometimes those changes don't make sense to people on the outside. If it doesn't pay off, scrap that, try something else.

 

Should BW/EA emphasize the minority endgame raiding experience at the detriment to the majority casual solo experience simply because the endgame raiders are more passionate and vocal, or should they follow what the market votes on with their money?

Edited July 9, 2015 by teclado

[Ghisallo]

Simple math. Last time in 2013 they said active players were around 500 k. A simple search will show you the number of people when the game launched was 2 million. The articles are out there, and everyone has read them, if you hvaent, google is your friend.

 

actually after the f2p trasnition they said that SUBSCRIBERS numbered around 500k and that they had added almost l 2 million additional f2p accounts. They never made any comments about "active players", just saying... for link...

 

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/14/6001503/star-wars-the-old-republic-2014-players-ea-bioware

 

Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," Gibeau said at the time. "And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million.

[idnewton]

and thats the point. BW made the mistake of thinking story alone was the key. It is not.

 

Wrong. The problem was that they lied. Player choice did not matter; the stories were very linear. They failed to deliver on the primary selling point of the game. THAT was the problem. They're going for story again, but this time, they're doing it right. And if they don't, and they lie again, we laugh at them and make a fool of them and drive their game into the ground. But the chances of that happening are very slim, given how much emphasis they're putting on player choice this time around. They simply cannot afford to be bluffing, and they know it, too.

Edited July 9, 2015 by idnewton

[tmwfte]

Again, you're interjecting when you seem to have little to no idea of what you are speaking about. Nobody was discussing anything pertaining to companions or crafting.

 

Next time you want to feel like a big man with a holier than thou attitude just remember nobody on the internet actually cares, man. Just read a self help book or something.

 

You're the one stating that the cutscenes and story are going to be exactly the same for every character in KotFE as an argument against running the story multiple times. This would presume that you've already done the content. Hence, you'd feel free to share information about more things about the content.

 

...but what's that? Resorting to insults? Why's that? Because you haven't run the content and don't know anything more about it that anyone else who has read the same information about what's coming?

[CrazyOldMystic]

I doubt this will do any good but here it goes.

Bioware for the first time you got the right idea, fix what was broken, then work on the new. This being said I do not do pve hardly at all, and even I know this is a huge mistake. You have to give your pve crowd at least one completely new operation at launch, or shortly their after. Otherwise your going to lose your playerbase. Most playerbases in mmorpgs are not pvp, this is no secret, they are pve based for end game. Saying no new operations, thats a huge pill, your asking your pve players to swallow. They might go for it but you would have to radically improve the old operations and make them new some how. I do not see that happening. By new I mean content wise, not gear, not level, but whats actually in them. For the record I said this almost exact same thing once on the wow forums, when they did something to seriously piss off their pve player base, and they did not listen. The game for a year plus suffered because of it. Swtor is no wow you do not have the player base to take a hit like that.

 

On the pvp sidenote, the pvp right now is a massive burn out horse race, because the way they are doing seasons. You get done with one and you have no time to enjoy what you have accomplished, before the push out the next.

A thought for any pvper that has tier one pvp gear, put decorations/mounts, on the pvp vendors. Not talking the season stuff. Add a little more flavor to pvp and give the pvp players a little more on reward. I stand by what I said about the pve

[Ghisallo]

Like it or not, end game ops that require 8-16 are quite a large barrier to entry for a lot of players. Myself, for example. I started playing this game because I really wanted KOTOR III. I have not done most of the flashpoints because I didn't feel like making a group to do it, especially since in group mode, the pressure is on to spacebar through it, and you don't always get to personally control the dialogue, so the story no longer feels like your own. With solo mode, I will totally go through every single one, probably more than once. For the hard mode tacticals, it's going to be a lot easier to grab three friends, not care about level or gear or roles, and run them.

 

Looking at this from purely a numbers perspective, how many players do you think are endgame raiders who will cancel sub over not having new raids with 4.0? How many would love these changes that open the door for players to experience a lot more of the story on their own time, at their own pace, in a solo mode? I'm guessing EA/BW think that the second number is bigger than the first, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. Making up numbers, suppose that they lose 2% of their subscribers because of no new ops, but they gain 10% more subscribers who like the changes and will take the next year or more to go through all of the newly solo-able stuff? Is it worth it then? Yeah. They're not going to make a move like this without some serious financial analyses. Ultimately as a business, you look at the numbers, and make changes that you think will optimize your profits. Sometimes those changes don't make sense to people on the outside. If it doesn't pay off, scrap that, try something else.

 

like it or not how does your theory match up to BW's own analysis of their launch failure plus the issues of other games that did not launch with adequate endgame content of this type over the last 16 years?

 

The classic problem people often fall into is creating theories that justify their own perceptions, which are typically limited.

[idnewton]

Again, you're interjecting when you seem to have little to no idea of what you are speaking about. Nobody was discussing anything pertaining to companions or crafting.

 

Next time you want to feel like a big man with a holier than thou attitude just remember nobody on the internet actually cares, man. Just read a self help book or something.

 

We're talking about story, and companions play a major role in the upcoming story as we know (some companions might even be NPCs you work with or work for, or you have to fight as external characters, etc.). To talk about companions is to talk about story. I'm humored by how little you know of the KotFE info we've been given. I would recommend educating yourself on the topic before running your mouth about it.

[idnewton]

I'm not insulting anyone, I can tell that you're obviously strung out for attention and that's why you feel the need to wave your e-peen around trying to make yourself feel better. It's okay, we see this a lot on MMO forums.

 

Bioware Austin has a writing team of exactly 2 people, so I will be surprised if there is anything more than single sentence deviations per class per chapter.

 

You're still trying to demean and belittle. If you had strong points, you wouldn't have to do this.

 

#HARSHbutTRUTH

Edited July 9, 2015 by idnewton

[DarkDisturbed]

You're still trying to demean and belittle. If you had strong points, you wouldn't have to do this.

 

#HARSHbutTRUTH

Says the guy who has spent the last few hours of his life responding to everyone disappointed in the lack of new end game for the expansion and calling them mentally inferior, right? Right?

 

Must be amusing to live in that small world of your's.

[tmwfte]

I'm not insulting anyone

 

Then proceeds to insult further...

 

I can tell that you're obviously strung out for attention and that's why you feel the need to wave your e-peen around trying to make yourself feel better. It's okay, we see this a lot on MMO forums.

Edited July 9, 2015 by tmwfte

[ImmortalLowlife]

..... How many games have you replayed 8+ times in succession?

 

Let's see....right of the top of my head,

 

Legend of Zelda: Orcania of time, link to the past, & twilight princess, ninja gaiden, battle toads, super Mario bros 3, contra, jade empire, Soul Reaver 1 & 2, double dragon, star Fox, pilot wings, any Madden, kotor 1 & 2, swtor (SW, SI, & Smuggler stories), Saints Row 1 & 2, ALL the Dragon Age games, Batman Arkham City, Smackdown vs RAW 2010, and GTA San Andreas.

 

And THAT'S without even trying hard

[idnewton]

Says the guy who has spent the last few hours of his life responding to everyone disappointed in the lack of new end game for the expansion and calling them mentally inferior, right? Right?

 

Must be amusing to live in that small world of your's.

 

'Mentally incapable' is way different than 'mentally inferior'. But sure, go ahead and believe what you want, regardless of the facts. You've been doing it so well thus far, why stop now?

[DarkDisturbed]

Then proceeds to insult further...

 

If you feel a practical and accurate analysis of your personality is insulting then I would look inward, young padawan.

[DarkDisturbed]

'Mentally incapable' is way different than 'mentally inferior'. But sure, go ahead and believe what you want, regardless of the facts. You've been doing it so well thus far, why stop now?

Not really, it's the same when you stroke yourself for being so perfectly "mentally capable" of doing so.

[tmwfte]

Let's see....right of the top of my head,

 

Legend of Zelda: Orcania of time, link to the past, & twilight princess, ninja gaiden, battle toads, super Mario bros 3, contra, jade empire, Soul Reaver 1 & 2, double dragon, star Fox, pilot wings, any Madden, kotor 1 & 2, swtor (SW, SI, & Smuggler stories), Saints Row 1 & 2, ALL the Dragon Age games, Batman Arkham City, Smackdown vs RAW 2010, and GTA San Andreas.

 

And THAT'S without even trying hard

 

March through April tends to be my Mass Effect trilogy replay timeframe every year. I still find it funny that people think that others don't repeatedly do things that they enjoy... *shrug*

[Canareth]

Let me explain "story" -- more story than WoW -- more story than EQ, more story than EQ2 (which I loved for 8 yrs till they nerfed it so bad and are making people PAY for new content ... even subbers, and so far only one new "campaign " as they call them, since Soe sold EQ and EQ2 to Daybreak in February ) ---

it's something different from the never ending rat race of raiding -- gearing up, readorning your gear -- etc etc etc ...... the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence -- I know, I've tried .... yes the story is the same basically, but maybe if players slowed down and got out of raid mode for a bit, they'd enjoy the game -----don't hit max level in 2 days and go slow ( oops but that's what I learned in raiding "what ? you're not max level or AA level yet? what's taking you so long? " )

and even the main man at Daybreak said ( in a very interesting post ) that the age of the MMO as we've known it, is done -- times have changed, people don't have time, or money to go into raiding like we used to in the past, and the raiders that started way back there are all grown up, with children -- priorites change folks

-- that may be one reason they are pushing their new game H1Z1 -- solo playing in short time increments

 

So, as I see it, this is not an unexpected thing in gaming -- the end of an era, and it's sad, but I have a feeling that hard core raiding is dead for the most part in MMOs

 

^^

 

WoW is never going to be imitated. That ship has sailed. It really was lightning in a bottle for whatever set of reasons, essentially launching with zero endgame content besides killing a dragon. It held players anyway, even though the vast majority of the playerbase never did serious raiding and PvP went nowhere unless you abused yourself. What raiding content there was was artificially gated to heck and back with mandatory keys, rep grinds and instagib prevention items. I was a raid "sergeant" for a long time and it was excessive for any world where it wasn't my primary life.

 

People played this game to hang out in Ironforge and run dungeons. They were sated by this. After PvP que's were introduced, PvPers hung out in that part of the city as well. Chat was full of much more garbage than Fleet ever is. There wasn't anything more to WoW than that. It's weird in retrospect but people loved the game despite gigantic flaws in endgame progression.

 

SWTOR looks really good by comparison, easily the best WoW-class MMO to ever come out. But people were always more into it for the story material than endgame. This is not surprising when even WoW servers, really big servers, had a hard time maintaining true progression raiding "scenes." Most people didn't raid until content was old and people had parallel gear that made it easier. And with that "lifestyle" just falling out of favor culturally, there's not a lot of percentage in pouring massive resources into content most players will never do. That was always WoW's problem in terms of cost/benefit.

 

I understand what BioWare is doing here and why not stick with what they're good at if they get one more bite at the apple of making SWTOR into the blockbuster it was supposed to be?

Edited July 9, 2015 by Canareth

[johncenaultimate]

Wanna know who wins an argument when two people get into it with one another? No one.

 

As the great Seto Kaiba once said,

 

Seto Kaiba: “Hmm. Blah-blah-blah. Don’t you get tired of making the same speech every time you’re faced with a challenge? Stop saving the world and get a hobby!”

[pupidibe]

Operations

These 8 and 16-Player Operations are all available at level 65 in both Story and Hard modes. A different Story Mode Operation will be available in the Group Finder each day.

 

Eternity Vault (5 bosses)

Karagga’s Palace (5 bosses)

Explosive Conflict (4 bosses)

Terror From Beyond (5 bosses)

Scum and Villainy (7 bosses)

Golden Fury (1 boss)

Dread Fortress (5 bosses)

Dread Palace (5 bosses)

Ravagers (5 bosses)

Temple of Sacrifice (5 bosses)

 

What about Colossal Monolith?, i understand that you need to finish some history to access him, but that can be skipped using flagship transportation making him the same type of boss like Golden Fury so it will nice knowing if that boss is going to be 65 too.

[idnewton]

Not really, it's the same when you stroke yourself for being so perfectly "mentally capable" of doing so.

 

If you cannot get enjoyment from something, then you are mentally incapable of it, by definition. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

 

If I'm mentally incapable of watching five hours of teletubbies straight, that does not mean I'm mentally inferior to someone who can. However, at this point, I would argue that you are mentally inferior since you can't seem grasp the most obvious concepts. But note that I didn't jump to that conclusion; it's blatantly obvious at this point.

 

You realize you're the only one in this thread at the moment who's derailing the topic with pointless arguments, right? You should look inward, young padawan. Yes, I understand you don't like the changes, and you have a right to post as such (this is sorta the point of the thread) but that doesn't mean you should attack individuals who disagree with you simply because you can't understand how they enjoy what you don't. If you were wise, you'd ask, and we'd tell you, and you'd be better for it. Apparently humility is a thing of the past, though.

Edited July 9, 2015 by idnewton

[TUXs]

Horizontal progression doesn't have to be bad. Just needs to be implemented well.

 

Absolutely correct!!!