GalacticStarfigh Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The majority doesn't even do ops, the majority came here to play an RPG and this is what they get. Finally. . You speak of numbers very hard to read and produce. Around 2010, when WoW was living the very peak of it's glory days, Bliz spoke about how 70% of people never reach lvl 10. This in a sub based MMO that, even today. is like 20 times bigger than SW:TOR. Imagine that. 70% of people, during game's zenith, never got anywhere. It is very safe to say majority of people in SW:TOR do nothing at all. However, gigantic fist of BW rams the dialogue wheel down your throat from 1st second in. Depending on how BW wants to spin them numbers, they can easily say MAJORITY OF PEOPLE are " deeply involved to conematic Bioware story experience woop". Due to all of the above,it is questionable how much this actually means. Healthy MMO is a beast with many heads. Feeding only one of those is dangerous and unfortunate decision. Spending around 10 mils of dev budget of questionable size to 4 mins of daddy issues?`Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The majority doesn't even do ops, the majority came here to play an RPG and this is what they get. Finally. Hardcore raiders and pvpers were always in the minority here, I think it was proven over and over again they have nothing to look for here if it's the only reason the play MMOs. I love how that bar keeps moving: "SWTOR is a casual game, not hardcore" "SWTOR is a PvE game, not PvP" "SWTOR is a story game, not an MMO" The excuses continue to mount... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 They are trying to find their own niche in the oversaturated MMORPG market. It is a gamble, but a great deal of people have been clamoring for story since forever, so it might pay off How many people re-read books or watch the same movie over and over? Few. But how many people continue to play Candy Crush? Stories are one time things for most people...activities are what holds interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheris Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You speak of numbers very hard to read and produce. Around 2010, when WoW was living the very peak of it's glory days, Bliz spoke about how 70% of people never reach lvl 10. This in a sub based MMO that, even today. is like 20 times bigger than SW:TOR. Imagine that. 70% of people, during game's zenith, never got anywhere. It is very safe to say majority of people in SW:TOR do nothing at all. However, gigantic fist of BW rams the dialogue wheel down your throat from 1st second in. Depending on how BW wants to spin them numbers, they can easily say MAJORITY OF PEOPLE are " deeply involved to conematic Bioware story experience woop". Due to all of the above,it is questionable how much this actually means. Healthy MMO is a beast with many heads. Feeding only one of those is dangerous and unfortunate decision. Spending around 10 mils of dev budget of questionable size to 4 mins of daddy issues?`Madness. All you need to do to realize this is look at the fleet chat and ask your friends. How long to you wait in que for an ops? How many are forming on the fleet in prime times of your server? How much time does it take to gather a pug? Lots. Sure, guilds do 8/16sm ops for comms and gearing up but that is more of a social event than progressing - they don't give a rats *** if they do the same ops for the 100th time or not. Serious progression guild have a hard time finding people to fill their teams - that is fact. Most of my friends, me included, couldn't care less if the new expansion will give us a new ops or not. I don't even care if there will be new flashpoints at this point, I'm done sitting until late night hours to make the server first kill - it was fun but in the end a game is not worth it, it was an exhausting expirience. There was a poll somewhere on this forums asking if people would stop paying if there would be no ops in the new expansion. Sure, a small portion of the playerbase visits here but the numbers where in favor of casual, non-raiding gamers and I'm willing to bet that statistic can be applied to everyone playing swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 How many people re-read books or watch the same movie over and over? Few. But how many people continue to play Candy Crush? Stories are one time things for most people...activities are what holds interest. I often reread books and I have never let Candy Crush to soil my phone's memory. Also, Candy Crush is not a game, it is a weird addiction, just like flappy bird was. Also, ironically, if somebody loves Candy Crush, they would love repeated content, no? I think that what they try to do is fix the underlying issues with Operations and Flashpoints, and that is a lot more important for the future. If it manages to do even third of what LFR managed to do in WoW, it will help tremendously, as Operations are not interesting to great many people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 How many people re-read books or watch the same movie over and over? Few. But how many people continue to play Candy Crush? Stories are one time things for most people...activities are what holds interest. you do NOT want to know how many times I reread some of my favorites. lets just say... I had to replace physical books and that's considering that I got digital copies few years back. (ok, so one I got digital copies, I didn't need to replace physical ones anymore, but you get the idea) fave movies - same thing. even fave series. what other reason is the to buy dvd's/blue ray? if you are only going to watch it once, might as well just rent it - cheaper that way. that said... as questionable as I find candy crush (speak of the money grab) you do have a point about activities. and I'm very VERY concerned with lack of new Flashpoints/ops. I'm not even hoping for new pvp modes/maps. still waiting to see what they say about solo/non ops flashpoint multiplayer content other than story at lvl 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 How many people re-read books or watch the same movie over and over? Few. But how many people continue to play Candy Crush? Stories are one time things for most people...activities are what holds interest. The new model isn't a matter of re-reading the story, it's a matter of having read chapters 1-10 and BW saying, "if you want to read chapter 11, it will cost you $[x]" and then after chapter 11 saying "if you want to read chapter 12, it will cost you $[x]" etc., etc., etc. Even if story is a one-time thing (and it really isn't for a lot of people, care to hazard a guess how many times a lot of players here have watched Episode IV? I bet it's more than once) these new monthly updates are going to be the ongoing 'first time' for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Even if story is a one-time thing (and it really isn't for a lot of people, care to hazard a guess how many times a lot of players here have watched Episode IV? I bet it's more than once) these new monthly updates are going to be the ongoing 'first time' for players. Monthly? LOL! Stop it...you'll get the 1st ones Oct 20th, then it won't be until January for the next one. Where did you come up with monthly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Monthly? LOL! Stop it...you'll get the 1st ones Oct 20th, then it won't be until January for the next one. Where did you come up with monthly? Because shame on them for not releasing something close for holidays, right? Because that went so well in the past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmwfte Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 How many people re-read books or watch the same movie over and over? Few. People revisit stories that they like regularly. Be them books, films, television series, or games. If no one re-watched a movie ever, there would be no point in television stations re-airing It's a Wonderful Life or Scrooged every year. Nor would you see people buying DVD/Blu-Rays or even books, since there is a method in place to rent/borrow them. Monthly? LOL! Stop it...you'll get the 1st ones Oct 20th, then it won't be until January for the next one. Where did you come up with monthly? I believe he's referring to the release schedule beyond the first nine chapters. If they expect to get to Chapter 16 by July 2016, with one chapter a month, it would indeed be monthly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Because shame on them for not releasing something close for holidays, right? Because that went so well in the past... Apples and oranges - we're not getting any new Ops or FPs with new loot, just a new story segment. And since when does past incompetence mean we give them the entire month of November and December off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Apples and oranges - we're not getting any new Ops or FPs with new loot, just a new story segment. And since when does past incompetence mean we give them the entire month of November and December off? Because November and December marls the launch date and lifespan (for most plaayers) of two heavily anticipated games which will make this game temporary empty? Sort of pointless trying to compete with the hype train that Fallout 4 is riding, isn't it? And we are given a lot of stuff that could get broken with the new system. Yes, it is the same old maps, but the system tries to fix a key issue, which is lack of new player interest in it. Putting a new map in it should certainly be possible, but probably a choice had to be made with allocation of Resources™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Monthly? LOL! Stop it...you'll get the 1st ones Oct 20th, then it won't be until January for the next one. Where did you come up with monthly? Knights of the Fallen Empire FAQ 7. When will Chapters be released? Knights of the Fallen Empire will launch with the first 9 episodic Chapters of the story. The remaining chapters will be released monthly starting in early 2016. I actually do think they're making a minor misstep by releasing chapters 1-9 at launch and then starting chapter 10 in early 2016 - I think it would have been a better move to have the initial 'expansion' in October be chapters 1-7, then start the on-going chapters with chapter 8 in November, chapter 9 in December and so-on as they are currently planned. But even so, the way it is set up now "monthly" is the core of the overall business model. Edited July 9, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sort of pointless trying to compete with the hype train that Fallout 4 is riding, isn't it? I have 100% honestly not heard about Fallout 4 until you mentioned it. Not a word. Knights of the Fallen Empire FAQ Huh...they did say that...again...interesting. Remember when they said that before too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Huh...they did say that...again...interesting. Remember when they said that before too? I think that if they don't stick to a once-per-billing-cycle cadence then this new model will almost certainly fail. If they do stick to the once-per-month approach, I think it has a good chance of succeeding but even then it is definitely an experiment - one I am interested to see how it pans out. I know you don't think they will stick to the cadence, you've said that elsewhere, too. More power to you. Now we'll see what happens. Edited July 9, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have 100% honestly not heard about Fallout 4 until you mentioned it. Not a word.Then you have been living under a rock for past month. Huh...they did say that...again...interesting. Remember when they said that before too? Remember when almost every word out of James Ohlen's mouth was followed by a death glare from Stephen Reid? James Ohlen often said things that were in severe disparity with actual development and release plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Apples and oranges - we're not getting any new Ops or FPs with new loot, just a new story segment. And since when does past incompetence mean we give them the entire month of November and December off? Because content takes months to make? They have start work on content months before the fanbase even knows anything about it. For example we know that some of the work for Makeb was done even before the game launched. Heck I'm willing to bet the 2.4 - 3.0 content drought was because they probably started working on FE shortly after 2.4 launched. The lack of traditional content in FE may be disheartening, but it's hardly a indicator of laziness. Edited July 9, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think that if they don't stick to a once-per-billing-cycle cadence then this new model will almost certainly fail. If they do stick to the once-per-month approach, I think it has a good chance of succeeding but even then it is definitely an experiment - one I am interested to see how it pans out. I know you don't think they will stick to the cadence, you've said that elsewhere, too. More power to you. Now we'll see what happens. Why do you believe this has a good chance of succeeding exactly? We've seen what happens when there's no "end game"..we saw it 2-months after launch. What I think we're about to see is "What happens when you stagnate every portion of the game?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The only thing that worries me is if I'll have Treek and HK on all the toons I will bring over to the expansion. No way I'm starting out with just one companion when there is crafting to be leveled. And speaking of companion skills, I think it would be foolish to go into this expansion without having all your chosen skills at 500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Why do you believe this has a good chance of succeeding exactly? We've seen what happens when there's no "end game"..we saw it 2-months after launch. What I think we're about to see is "What happens when you stagnate every portion of the game?". Because "end game" isn't necessarily the only way to keep people paying - look at episodic games like Wolf Among Us or Walking Dead, people will pay money for the 'next chapter' in an ongoing story. This is an experiment in bringing that model to the MMO space. 2 Months after launch there wasn't enough anything to keep a lot of people playing - the End Game grind is the tried and true method of giving people a reason to resubscribe month after month in an MMO, new story content updates are an attempt at developing an alternative reason. And an ongoing storyline is a better incentive to me to keep paying than Operations or Flashpoints ever were. Those are every bit the 'play it once' sort of content for me that story content may be for you. Edited July 9, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Here's the logic being tossed around: If we don't have new raids at 65, people will quit the game in droves and it'll be launch all over again omg omg omg ican'tbreatheomg. Here's the problem though: Most of the real 'raid-or-die' players quit a long time ago. There's some left, of course, but their own data shows that most of their players are playing along with the story, in no great rush to get to level cap for raiding...or end-game pvp, either. So...as I said many weeks ago when people lost their minds the first time around when it was made clear that raiding isn't the focus of this game anymore: Go try WoW. I hear they have great raids there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmwfte Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Go try WoW. I hear they have great raids there. Wildstar's going free-to-play soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So...as I said many weeks ago when people lost their minds the first time around when it was made clear that raiding isn't the focus of this game anymore: Go try WoW. I hear they have great raids there. Not from what i keep hearing, it is mostly people running through the same old content via LFR. Seems pretty close to this doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDisturbed Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Here's the logic being tossed around: If we don't have new raids at 65, people will quit the game in droves and it'll be launch all over again omg omg omg ican'tbreatheomg. Here's the problem though: Most of the real 'raid-or-die' players quit a long time ago. There's some left, of course, but their own data shows that most of their players are playing along with the story, in no great rush to get to level cap for raiding...or end-game pvp, either. So...as I said many weeks ago when people lost their minds the first time around when it was made clear that raiding isn't the focus of this game anymore: Go try WoW. I hear they have great raids there. Go play a single player game for single player content, I hear they're good for that. See what I did there? Sure, I'm in no rush to get to level cap on 15/16 of my characters and am taking my time, but I spend most of the time on my main raiding toon and would spend more time if there was actually more content. Edited July 9, 2015 by DarkDisturbed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Go play a single player game for single player content, I hear they're good for that. . yeah, except I don't have to, I have TOR for that. yay for having the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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