Jedi Guardian Vs Jedi Sentinel

[Anrew]

Okay so my sage finally hit 50, but I noticed that as others were hitting 50 it got much harder to solo tank for a bit. Now I'm ready for my melee I"m not sure if I want to go shadow, because I do like their dps and survivability in pvp and I would like to do some of the tanking. At the same time I don't see much for sentinals lately. And I know my guild doesn't have one. So i'm debating shadow, guardian and sentinal anyone got some ideas. If shadow I would tank spec, whichever one that is. Guard tank and sentinal dps of course.

[Anrew]

bump. I'm curious on how guardian dmg is post game. Are they viable as dps in hard modes? I haven't yet run a hard mode but I really want to, but I don't want to be in a pug the first time. Also do sentinals go watchman post game for pvp and pve? And finally as far as tanks go how do guardians rate vs vanguard or shadow. I was told if a shadow knows what they are doing they can main tank hard modes and operations, but its harder.

[GarfieldJL]

From a PvE standpoint, aside from having to get help at times for missions, I have not regretted being a DPS Guardian instead of a sentinel.

 

1. Higher survivability -- and can carry shields for use if needed

 

2. Low threat rating -- It's rather fun when the enemy totally ignores you to focus on every other party member while you are dishing out elemental damage based attacks that ignore shields.

 

3. Force push -- you can throw enemies off ledges to their doom with Force push.

 

 

 

Sentinels are good DPS machines but if they get seriously targetted by high powered enemies they get clobbered.

 

Guardians do less damage but can survive things a sentinel can't.

[Dionan]

I play a 50 Jedi sentinel, and have done lots of PVP - so I can give my .02 from a sentinel player perspective, and what I've seen of guardians/juggs in pvp.

 

Sentinels in pvp are death ninjas that eat up players. That's not to say we're overpowered or underpowered, frankly I think we're right where we need to be, minor ability delay/responsiveness things aside. I consistently am top 4 DPS in warzones, and do very good healing as watchman spec.

 

I can take anything on 1v1 and have a reasonable chance of success. There's always some times when an operative (pre-nerf) or a sorc or whatever can smack me down because they're a better player, outgear me, or their currently FOTM super-class, but on average, I don't shy away from any 1v1 and can usually win if I blow all my cooldowns.

 

Sentinels in general are very cooldown based for their awesomeness. We do great dps with no cooldowns, but we can really shine when you manage your Relics and Zen/Centering and other defensive cooldowns well.

 

Go sentinel if you want to focus on DPS. Our team utility is there with nice buffs for the team like Transendence which buffs team speed by 30%+ (don't remember exact number) and reduces damage by 10%. This can be key in a warzone when you need to get to your objective quickly. There's also a 15% damage/healing boost you can do every 5 minutes, which is akin to the Shaman berserk thing from wow. More Sentinels=more team DPS.

 

I should also mention that Sentinel has a very high skill requirement to play effectively in pvp. You have tons of abilities - so much that I'm almost out of spaces on my bars with all extra bars enabled. The devs have commented that they're aware of this issue, and may fix it, but for now you should understand that there is a huge gap between a decent sentinel/marauder and a great one. I made the comment the other day to a guildie that in pvp when I fight a marauder either its' the easiest fight ever and I whip them, or they beat the crap out of me, not much in between.

 

From my perspective, Guardians/Juggs are nasty in pvp. They don't scare me in the sense that they can kill me, but they're annoying as hell as being sometimes nigh unkillable. In warzones where you can effectively win a match by preventing a door capture or point capture in alderaan, sometimes I'm at the point where if i see a single saber, i go "damn it!".

 

And that's not to mention guard which in itself is awesome. you can guard 1 other player and become a two man defensive wrecking team where 4 v guard + healer/dps will win.

 

Go guardian/jugg if you want team utility/survivability and just generally annoying other teams by not dying.

[Rhinzual]

I haven't had any problems leveling as a Defensive Spec Guardian, up until the very last class quest fight... at which I'm stuck still and for which I'd like to thank Bioware for TOTALLY *********** IT UP AND GIVING ME THE RAGE OF A LIFETIME!!!

 

Other than that, Defense spec seems to be the best for leveling cuz of the low downtime and easily manageable boss fights.

 

I've got a Juggernaut specced Immortality, I ain't looking forward to that final class fight myself either.

[sac-]

Very true

 

I like my Guardian, but I am tired of being last in about everything when it comes to PVP. And its not a question of skill, I am not a Pro, but I can hold my own.

 

The Guardian/Jugger is at terrible disadvantage in PVP. Some of our abilities are useless in PVP (like Master Strike) we have no CC until far too late, the DPS is terrible, we cant heal ourselves, (unlike more powerful classes that can), and we don't have enough useful interrupts we means we are constantly CC'ed. Our better abilities (sunder, blade barrier) have long cooldowns forcing us to rely on spamming vastly inferior ones, it takes a long time to generate focus.

 

One of the best defensive abilities for Jedi (REBUKE) is a Sentinel skill, I don't understand why as Defense is supposed to be the Guardians job. The ONLY advantage we have over the Sentinel is the fact we can carry Heavy Armor (which also sucks because the appears to be a shortage of armored robes we saw on the ads)

 

 

PVE is fine, but we just seem to suck at everything in PVP except for the flag carrier in Huttball. The entire class is in serious need of a revision (not just a buff) but espicially the Guardian/Juggernault

 

I just stated an Inquisitor and I was just shocked at all the things that class gets even at very low level.

 

I tested both the Guardian and a low level Sentinel, and aside from the Sentinel being alittle more squishy (not by much) the Sentinel was Superior.

 

I think i am going to shelf my guardian until a fix comes out and focus on a either the Inquisitor or roll a Trooper (I prefer playing Republic).

 

I think Bioware might have been worried about an overpopulation of Jedi/Sith Warriors so the gimped the class to make others tempting. But I am afraid they have gone to far, as this is easily the worst class in the game.

 

To say we are at "terrible disadvantage" in PvP you must be doing it terrible wrong, I'm sorry to tell you that.

 

Just to prove my point:

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vxhxsx.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/23m69ex.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/26038yd.jpg

 

Those were today and I'm not even battlemaster (valor rank 36 atm). 'We' are not in any disadvantage AT ALL. Master Strike useless? Seriously? I don't really want to say that but, learn to play your class properly. I can hit 3k just with the last hit of Master Strike. Even Sundering Strike can crit 1k+.

 

"We are constantly CC'ed"? Yea, sure, I could agree with you here but I won't. This class has the most freaking awesome mobility in the game. I can leap, push, leap again, guardian leap, zealous leap, root, snare, stun, aoe stun, what else do you need? With all those, I could interrupt someone for about 10 times. I don't really know what you're talking about.

 

If I could give you any tips, I think you're doing the right thing. Roll a commando or a sorcerer. You can spam Grav Round and the lightning stuff all day and still top the charts.

[Rhinzual]

To say we are at "terrible disadvantage" in PvP you must be doing it terrible wrong, I'm sorry to tell you that.

 

Just to prove my point:

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vxhxsx.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/23m69ex.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/26038yd.jpg

 

Those were today and I'm not even battlemaster (valor rank 36 atm). 'We' are not in any disadvantage AT ALL. Master Strike useless? Seriously? I don't really want to say that but, learn to play your class properly. I can hit 3k just with the last hit of Master Strike. Even Sundering Strike can crit 1k+.

 

"We are constantly CC'ed"? Yea, sure, I could agree with you here but I won't. This class has the most freaking awesome mobility in the game. I can leap, push, leap again, guardian leap, zealous leap, root, snare, stun, aoe stun, what else do you need? With all those, I could interrupt someone for about 10 times. I don't really know what you're talking about.

 

If I could give you any tips, I think you're doing the right thing. Roll a commando or a sorcerer. You can spam Grav Round and the lightning stuff all day and still top the charts.

 

See, posting stuff like that, true or not, is only gonna upset people already in a bad mood and they'll start complaining for JKs and SWs to be nerfed. If you're doing wonderfully, then shut your mouth and keep it to yourself. Look how many Sorcs play the game, and you're giving them potential ammo with screenshots like that which lack a lot of context. Context they will be able to make up for themselves to suit their own nerf-oriented goals.

 

That's the nature of people like that. You give them something remotely concrete to work with, and they'll twist it against you so hard and fast you'll wish you did the smart thing and didn't go bragging.

 

tl;dr - Be as awesome as you want, but don't go showing other people and potentially make them both jealous and spiteful with the evidence you provide.

[Saimeren]

Very true

 

I like my Guardian, but I am tired of being last in about everything when it comes to PVP. And its not a question of skill, I am not a Pro, but I can hold my own.

 

The Guardian/Jugger is at terrible disadvantage in PVP. Some of our abilities are useless in PVP (like Master Strike) we have no CC until far too late, the DPS is terrible, we cant heal ourselves, (unlike more powerful classes that can), and we don't have enough useful interrupts we means we are constantly CC'ed. Our better abilities (sunder, blade barrier) have long cooldowns forcing us to rely on spamming vastly inferior ones, it takes a long time to generate focus.

 

One of the best defensive abilities for Jedi (REBUKE) is a Sentinel skill, I don't understand why as Defense is supposed to be the Guardians job. The ONLY advantage we have over the Sentinel is the fact we can carry Heavy Armor (which also sucks because the appears to be a shortage of armored robes we saw on the ads)

 

 

PVE is fine, but we just seem to suck at everything in PVP except for the flag carrier in Huttball. The entire class is in serious need of a revision (not just a buff) but espicially the Guardian/Juggernault

 

I just stated an Inquisitor and I was just shocked at all the things that class gets even at very low level.

 

I tested both the Guardian and a low level Sentinel, and aside from the Sentinel being alittle more squishy (not by much) the Sentinel was Superior.

 

I think i am going to shelf my guardian until a fix comes out and focus on a either the Inquisitor or roll a Trooper (I prefer playing Republic).

 

I think Bioware might have been worried about an overpopulation of Jedi/Sith Warriors so the gimped the class to make others tempting. But I am afraid they have gone to far, as this is easily the worst class in the game.

 

 

No interrupts like kick, charge, force choke, and force push, right? You can't use master strike, because you can't stun them with force charge, you get kited because you don't use your slowing effect, You gain focus just fine with slash, and sunder, and you can spend it on the powerful attacks like force sweep. You don't need to heal yourself because you have a **** ton of armor, interrupts, and deffensive CD's. Your damage isn't supposed to be fantastic, you're not a shadow or sage, you bring utility to the group. Try throwing guard, and taunt out and soaking a bit of damage from someone else. It's not all about killing blows, and high numbers. As long as the target dies, that's all that matters.

 

It's not the class man.. It's the player..

[RudyRoo]

I agree with sac.Ive been playing vigilance and have topped the damage chart several times in wzs.The class reminds me of an arms warrior kinda...if you know how to play youll **** face.. if you dont, reroll.

[Anrew]

I don't suppose anyone has any pvp videos or anything? Also with guardians if you were running a hm or a operation it sounds like if you were traited dps it wouldn't be a problem to fill a dps slot an also probably be able to off tank just due to your armor? I wont lie though I'm still so torn. Maybe I'll have to check out the Sith Warrior forums and find out what looks cooler for them and then roll the oposite for the republic. I mean cosmetics matter too

[SarimRune]

This might end up being a grass is greener on the other side.

 

I picked Sentinel and have, many times, regreted it.

 

People who say that the Sentinel is better must like tissue paper because that's what I sometimes feel like. I use Health packs as much as possible but I don't like the idea that

a) without that Health pack it would have been game over...it's just too many times to count

b) Far too many times, the use of the health pack is pointless. I'm going to lose the fight anyway.

 

The saving grace of the Sentinel is that we can be quite effective in PVP (if speced out correct).

[Anrew]

The challenge of the sentinel is kinda what draws me to it to be honest. But if I don't do guardian I am going to do vanguard.

[Zag_Stratos]

It depends.

 

If you enjoy beating people up and don't mind the pain. Guardian

If you enjoy beating people up with style and really fast but do mind the pain. Sentinel

 

I've played bounty hunter up to level 45 and I got to say, Jedi Guardians where not fun to fight. I usually had to spend all my cooldowns on them... While Sentinels, unless it was really a good player, it was business as usually. Beating a Guardian was a challenge, Beating the majority of the Sentinels is like going to work on a Thursday, nothing special really. However, beating a good Sentinel was nearly impossible. lol

 

Sentinel requires a lot of tactics and readiness. You do not dictate the fight, you counter and tactically disable someone to do damage on you.

 

I love my Sentinel but it is quite a challenging class in PVE and PVP.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Zag_Stratos

[Meranos]

I have a 50 juggernaut (levelled tank spec the entire way) and a 45 sentinel (watchman spec because it's what I've gotten used to). They both have their advantages and disadvantages in pvp (and elsewhere).

 

I have not had any pve troubles in either case. There were some difficult fights at times, but nothing impossible. I have not had to request outside assistance for any class quests. It's all been myself plus companion.

 

In regards to the OP, go with what you think you'll like more. If you ever want to tank and won't want to reroll another character, go guardian hands-down. If you're a dps maniac, you can select either AC and do decent dps if you're competent.

 

Personally, I prefer the armor options that the guardians get to the stuff the sentinels get. Sentinels can wear smuggler gear (as long as they mod it for the appropriate stats), but I like the slightly-more armored look that guardian gear has. (Though, that's why I rolled a sith juggernaut - their non-Operation armor looks the best to me.)

[TheGreenAlloy]

Well sentinel is purely dps, you have no other options. His abilities are very focused on damage quickly. A guardian can also spec dps but even so, his abilities are more defensive focused with alot of taunting abilities. He can also force push (Great btw) while a sentinel has an in combat stealth. If it gets hairy he can pop stealth and vanish for 2 seconds. So its about playstyle. Do you want to focus purely on bringing the most hurt on your enemy all the time, or do you want to mix it up with the guardian ?

 

Both are great in pvp and insanely fast in pve. Ive levelled a shadow, but levelling the jedi knight class ....**** ..... its like turbo mode.

 

Turbo mode? Jedi Knight leveling?

 

wat

 

Have you ever tried a Bounty Hunter. It's like easy difficulty, and super speedy leveling compared to JKs.

[xirinia]

See, posting stuff like that, true or not, is only gonna upset people already in a bad mood and they'll start complaining for JKs and SWs to be nerfed. If you're doing wonderfully, then shut your mouth and keep it to yourself. Look how many Sorcs play the game, and you're giving them potential ammo with screenshots like that which lack a lot of context. Context they will be able to make up for themselves to suit their own nerf-oriented goals.

 

That's the nature of people like that. You give them something remotely concrete to work with, and they'll twist it against you so hard and fast you'll wish you did the smart thing and didn't go bragging.

 

tl;dr - Be as awesome as you want, but don't go showing other people and potentially make them both jealous and spiteful with the evidence you provide.

 

So you should lie and tell everyone how much you suck, so that poor stupid Bioware (who has no idea of any sort of stats on their own game) would buff you, right?

[Naed-Aniaj]

I'm a Guardian DPS, Valor level 19 at the moment. I have yet to finish last in something to be honest. It's all about knowing your role thoroughly.

As Guardian DPS all you need to do is support the team mostly, defending your healers, and getting hits in while you can. Basically you're the average troll, taunting around, hitting every now and then, and most importantly, having your Guard on a key team member.

[Sajlez]

cant talk about sentenal but guarding rocks imo

 

playing in tank specc and you can take allot of dmg and guard your fellow companions (specealy in pvp for extra medals)

 

you can do desent dmg to if you whant to

[Phryke]

Sentinel, I'm a guardian. Worst idea ever. No dmg, die fast.

[WarlordGrego]

If you read the sentinel forums, you'll see a lot of crying about how UP sents are.

 

I am a lvl 50 Combat specced Sentinel. It is challenging. Much more so than the Commando I played in Beta...but it is fun. I recognize some changes that can be made to improve the class, but overall I think we're fine. I do think we are at a bit of a disadvantage during PvP...but mainly I just suck at PvP (i'm only valor rank 13. I don't PvP much)

[JoonKimDMD]

I have very very different opinion from most people here saying that sentinel is better than guardian.

 

I am lvl 50, valor 50 sentinel with champion + columni items and I am about to delete this character. That's how bad sentinel is.

 

Guardian is much better than sentinel in almost every possible way that you can think of.

 

DMG = guardian does about twice more damage than sentinel

armor = medium vs. heavy, heavy wins

force push = must have in pvp

jump to ally = must have in pvp

 

Someone will disagree with me because I said guardian does more dmg than sentinel. But this is the truth.

 

A lot of people think that sentinel can do more dmg simply because sentinel got 2 light saber and it's only logical to think that tank can't do as much dmg as dps.

And that's how I initially thought about it too. But i was wrong and that's exactly why I just made guardian character to start all over again.

 

Watchman tree of sentinel is only good in 1v1. When you are surrounded or stunned, it's possibly the worst tree. Focus tree is the way to go, the most balanced, most powerful, and most useful....what sux is that guardian can do significantly higher dmg than sentinel when you pick focus tree especially because the 2nd lightsaber dmg doesn't affect the dmg output of forces.

Edited January 27, 2012 by JoonKimDMD

[Satelerevan]

Hey guys, you made a lot of good points definately for sure, I was wondering about the Jedi Guardian tanking spec. Any good pointers there for builds wise?

 

I'm looking at producing better threat and/or absorb more damage. What's your thoughts?

[KeepEvil]

Very true

 

I like my Guardian, but I am tired of being last in about everything when it comes to PVP. And its not a question of skill, I am not a Pro, but I can hold my own.

 

The Guardian/Jugger is at terrible disadvantage in PVP. Some of our abilities are useless in PVP (like Master Strike) we have no CC until far too late, the DPS is terrible, we cant heal ourselves, (unlike more powerful classes that can), and we don't have enough useful interrupts we means we are constantly CC'ed. Our better abilities (sunder, blade barrier) have long cooldowns forcing us to rely on spamming vastly inferior ones, it takes a long time to generate focus.

 

One of the best defensive abilities for Jedi (REBUKE) is a Sentinel skill, I don't understand why as Defense is supposed to be the Guardians job. The ONLY advantage we have over the Sentinel is the fact we can carry Heavy Armor (which also sucks because the appears to be a shortage of armored robes we saw on the ads)

 

 

PVE is fine, but we just seem to suck at everything in PVP except for the flag carrier in Huttball. The entire class is in serious need of a revision (not just a buff) but espicially the Guardian/Juggernault

 

I just stated an Inquisitor and I was just shocked at all the things that class gets even at very low level.

 

I tested both the Guardian and a low level Sentinel, and aside from the Sentinel being alittle more squishy (not by much) the Sentinel was Superior.

 

I think i am going to shelf my guardian until a fix comes out and focus on a either the Inquisitor or roll a Trooper (I prefer playing Republic).

 

I think Bioware might have been worried about an overpopulation of Jedi/Sith Warriors so the gimped the class to make others tempting. But I am afraid they have gone to far, as this is easily the worst class in the game.

 

Man I've never heard anything so very wrong, really learn to play your class before saying such nonsense. We have lots of interrupts, a lot of mobility, lots of defensive CDs... We might not have a single target cc that leaves the guy there doin nothing for hours, but we do have the awesome Awe ability, not to mention stasis. I use master strike frequently in pvp btw, just use after a stun. After the patch that we get to leap, push and leap again JKs/Juggs dominate the field even more.

[Zubarak]

The thing with the Jedi Guardian is that until you start getting utility skills, you're pretty weak in PvP. It's not that you can't do anything, but you just aren't quite as good as the other classes that get a lot more of their tricks earlier on. It's really annoying being so limited at lower levels as a Guardian.

 

And then you get to the higher levels with all your skills available and you find yourself pretty darn dangerous. You can easily keep your opponent's armor sundered (Guardian Strike + Sunder Armor = max armor debuff), stay alive for monstrous amounts of time (Riposte defense boost, Blade Barrier, Saber Ward, Warding Call, Enure), interrupt the crap out of enemies (Force Kick, Force Leap, Force Push, Force Stasis, Hilt Strike, and I assume Awe when I get it) and all around cause havoc in the middle of enemy ranks (remember to aoe taunt!). Not to mention they can guard a target, which is insanely useful on a healer, and also on the ball carrier in Huttball. DPS suffers a bit (Pommel Strike and Opportunistic Strike I don't think work at all in PvP, Master Strike only works against people who can't play well and stand there, which leaves you with just Guardian Strike as your big hit, Blade Storm as a sort of usable big hit, and Riposte as a good damage supplement), but then you can stay alive to continue dealing damage, which makes things even out somewhat. Mobility is pretty decent with Force Leap, and it'll get even better when I get Guardian Leap at level 50. A free Force Freeze whenever I want makes it annoying for enemies to fight around me as well.

 

They rock in PvE too (once you get Doc at least), especially against opponents that deal most of their damage through cast time skills... because they never get to get them off. It's hilarious beating down an elite droid thing without the elite even getting its Ion Cell buff up the entire fight because I keep interrupting them.

 

Can't say much about a Sentinel as I haven't played one past lvl 19 in beta, but I generally win against Sith Marauders in PvP if that's any indication.

 

This is all from a Defense spec perspective, btw. I've not played the DPS trees yet, so I can't speak to them.

 

Then the huge knockback which can make a situation hairy in say,huttball or the void star. See a guy coming for you in Voidstar?Push him off the sides. See the ball carrier close to your line in huttball?Send him back iitno the grounds beow(Or in the fire,that works too)

[Nippon]

I'm having a lot of trouble with my Guardian at level 27. All of my story missions where I have to take down elite enemies usually result in me dying numerous times and just getting lucky with a win. I eventually switched to a smuggler and am currently leveling him up but I want to go back to my guardian. It just gets frustrating.

 

EDIT: As the poster above said - I might go into a defense spec. I'm currently Vig spec'ed so maybe that could be an issue?

 

Trust me my friend by picking Guard you borked yourself from the start, the devs have not developed the class, every other tank spec in game is better than Guard, even a Consular shadow, would you believe. Plus every other class in game is easier to level via there first 3 companions, the rate at which they get them and the usefulness of them....

 

My first class JKGuard

Second Commando

Third JC Sage

Now on Scoundrel

 

After Rolling Guard first, the rest are like playing the Game on super easy mode.

 

 

Do what you can to level your T7-01 and spec him with top modifiable gear, you will need him for the end of your class quest