Icestar Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Master looter is a very convenient way to solve when everyone needs on everything but it can also backfire. I have seen master looters do their job until the last boss and then take something special, so how can this be solved in a better way? I know some will say to never allow master looter but it is the way it is working with PUGs on the server I play on and it is in general accepted. I think it could be a good thing to have another loot setting where you are only allowed one set item, or even a custom lootsetting where the leader can pre-click how many of each type a player could roll on and that could never change later on in the OPS. What do you think? Edited July 3, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 AFAIK, if you enter a raid or flashpoint via group finder, the loot setting is locked and cannot be changed by the leader. Only when you pre-form via chat and then queue into group finder as a full group will the leader be able to change the setting. In my opinion, the system is working perfectly fine as is. You just have to be careful which PuGs you join. If the leader is from a respectable guild, you don't have to worry about him ninjaing the loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJSCHNEIDER Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well, basically: ML: I have to trust 1 person not to ninjaloot Rolls: I have to trust 7 people ML is usual in the Pugs I join and I haven't seen any issues the last months tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 You just have to be careful which PuGs you join. If the leader is from a respectable guild, you don't have to worry about him ninjaing the loot. What is a respectable guild nowdays? I have actually seen players from "respectable" guilds take items that does not belong to them without a roll. When someone forms a group on Fleet and you want to do a OPS it is not that easy to be picky, you want to do the OPS and have a fair share of the items. It works the way it is today but it is not wrong to have a discussion about it if it can be improved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhOsTPrOz Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 What's generally accepted on my server is you make everyone have OPs LT and mark everyone with a target marker State loot rules before the first boss. Ex: 1 unassembled each, need on mats, need on off pieces if it has your main stat. One deco per person. If they win a mat or off piece nothing happens. If they win a deco take off there target marker. This is so everyone knows who won and who hasn't. Then if they win a unassembled take away the LT. Generally no one tried to ninja loot or steal because we have a operations channel and if you steal your pretty much gonna get cursed out and no one would run with you again. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 To solve this problem I form pugs myself. My loot rules - 1 token per person, all count, mk2 free roll, rest random. I never join pugs anymore because most of them don't count relics, implants, earings and offhands as tokens. This leads to imbalance, where some people get 2 tokens and some - nothing at all for their effort, which is not fair imo. So the question is: what's stopping you from forming a group of your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncenaultimate Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 for my ravager/tos runs. loot rules are the same every time. i have once, not had a single person with a complaint. implants = free roll, decos = randomed ear piece = free roll off hand = free roll main hand = free roll relics = free roll. the only thing i enforce is the set bonuses pieces, which should be the norm for every person who does master looter. 1 piece per person. now for my hm tos/ravager runs. i do special loot rules. basically what that is, every piece counts as a set bonus, so at least 2 people get 1 piece. i'll even pug a full group for tos/rav hm, but i will only do the first bosses of those ops. and i don't require voice comm for those pug runs of the first bosses only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LafforCry Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I joined a guild run (won't mention the name obviously) where they had Master Looter, I didn't mind as I think its a fair system. However, after winning the roll for Bracers to add to my set for the bonus (3/8), the Op leader gave them to the person who scored highest in his guild. His reason was that I had (198) bracers already so didn't need them. I didn't rage quit, didn't argue, completed, took my comms and left. Added every single one of them from that guild/op to my ignore list so hopefully I will never end up in one of their runs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) for my ravager/tos runs. loot rules are the same every time. i have once, not had a single person with a complaint. implants = free roll, decos = randomed ear piece = free roll off hand = free roll main hand = free roll relics = free roll. Yes that works on my server however I have seen a master looter a few times take something nice from the final boss. The 192 mainhand is most common to take. What you speak of are still rolls but what if the master looter decides to take something anyway? There are no safeguards however good "loot rules" the team agrees upon to stop the master looter from taking something he/she should not have. That is the point of this thread to think if the system could be improved somehow. Edited July 7, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LafforCry Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I've not seen a Master Looter take something in an Op for themselves, but I have seen the Op leader say "LF2T, 4DPS, 1H for ToS SM, Main hand is reserved". TBH, I don't think he/she managed to get a group together or he/she hadn't the 4 hours I was online. Lot's of comments followed saying "yeah f***k that, good luck with that" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I've not seen a Master Looter take something in an Op for themselves, but I have seen the Op leader say "LF2T, 4DPS, 1H for ToS SM, Main hand is reserved". TBH, I don't think he/she managed to get a group together or he/she hadn't the 4 hours I was online. Lot's of comments followed saying "yeah f***k that, good luck with that" Well at least they are honest and thus people responded with a sensible no. Rather that than dishonest. I personally will not run with a group using master looter as some weird stuff happens. One time I rolled the second highest for the Bracers on MB so naturally I just went and clicked the shuttle. the higher roller decided he didn't need it and should go to second highest. Instead of just running to me for trade the ML just decided to give it to another guildie. He was moaning I should have stayed in area like trading is hard. I then kept popping pets put during Cora causing them to rage quit after 3rd reset. Revenge was served well that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I've not seen a Master Looter take something in an Op for themselves, but I have seen the Op leader say "LF2T, 4DPS, 1H for ToS SM, Main hand is reserved". If that is the case then it is clear lootrules and everyone that joins knows what is to be expected, I have no problems at all with that. I can join such a group eventhough I would very much like to know that all items are rolled. What I mean is a situation where the master looter takes something and the ops can not do a single thing about it. Master looter is like something many teams use, yet it has flaws what can be improved? Edited July 8, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Master looter is like something many teams use, yet it has flaws what can be improved? The only thing BioWare could do is change their policies to step in and take action to those players. For example, Blizzard will ban such players if they take all the loot for themselves AND if they wrote the loot rules in chat before the raid. (if they are explained in voice-chat, you cannot prove it) But I don't see this happening in this game. Edited July 8, 2015 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I joined a guild run (won't mention the name obviously) where they had Master Looter, I didn't mind as I think its a fair system. However, after winning the roll for Bracers to add to my set for the bonus (3/8), the Op leader gave them to the person who scored highest in his guild. His reason was that I had (198) bracers already so didn't need them. I didn't rage quit, didn't argue, completed, took my comms and left. Added every single one of them from that guild/op to my ignore list so hopefully I will never end up in one of their runs again. You silly goose You seem to forget what the difference is between a guild and a pug. In your guild you use mainly 1 or 2 toons in a relativly fixed group of people. A puggroup is most of the time with different people AND with people on alts. The 1 token max rule is a really inefficient and longterm speaking a very unfair way of gearing up. For example I haven't won a piece in ages in my HM pug runs. I dont mind this as its just bad luck but still .... Next time when you join a guild run you might want to ask for their lootrules mate. Their run their rules. The lootrule of needing only when your main needs it is a very common lootrule in guilds with fixed groups. Its the most fair lootrule since you all gear up approx at the same speed. I have been in several guilds over the years and all guilds were using this system. The benefit for pugs in this is that sometimes they can get massive amounts of items because the guildgroup already has them which means none may roll against you. So in short. Remove them from your ignore list, give yourself a few slaps for being silly and continue. Maybe next time when you join them you can get most of the loot . It might even be worth to befriend them since apparently you are not used to guilds using this pugfriendly rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) The only thing BioWare could do is change their policies to step in and take action to those players. For example, Blizzard will ban such players if they take all the loot for themselves AND if they wrote the loot rules in chat before the raid. (if they are explained in voice-chat, you cannot prove it) But I don't see this happening in this game. I wish that we could get some clarification about if it is valid in this game aswell. If the lootrules are stated, the players roll and the leaders takes something and then disconnects/leaves team something should be done about it. If they actually act on these kinds of things then I got my answer that I asked for in the original post. Edited July 8, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I wish that we could get some clarification about if it is valid in this game aswell. If the lootrules are stated, the players roll and the leaders takes something and then disconnects/leaves team something should be done about it. If they actually act on these kinds of things then I got my answer that I asked for in the original post. No, BioWare does not act on these things. Their policy is that when loot is set to Master Looter, the leader of the group has full power over who receives which items. Doesn't matter what he promised, he is free to give the item to whoever he wants. It's been like that since release and I don't think they will change it. Edited July 8, 2015 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) No, BioWare does not act on these things. Their policy is that when loot is set to Master Looter, the leader of the group has full power over who receives which items. Doesn't matter what he promised, he is free to give the item to whoever he wants. It's been like that since release and I don't think they will change it. There should be some kind of safeguard from players stealing items that the entire team agreed upon to be rolled. Edited July 9, 2015 by Icestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benficakungfu Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Kinda stupid to still ML after so much time into 3.0. But i respect lead decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncenaultimate Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Kinda stupid to still ML after so much time into 3.0. But i respect lead decision. well if it weren't for master loot, everyone could just roll on every set bonus piece that dropped. (for a pug group) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Kinda stupid to still ML after so much time into 3.0. But i respect lead decision. That is the way most PUG works, it is either that or someone walks away with more then a fair share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LafforCry Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) .Next time when you join a guild run you might want to ask for their lootrules mate. Their run their rules That was the thing, they said 1 token per person, guild or pug. Loot rules were explained very clearly at the start of the run. I believe the other PUG who was there won the offhand. Edited July 9, 2015 by LafforCry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 . That was the thing, they said 1 token per person, guild or pug. Loot rules were explained very clearly at the start of the run. I believe the other PUG who was there won the offhand. Yes, the ones where I have seen the leader take items with masterloot the loot rules were set aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idoya Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I've had plenty of great runs with normal loot rules with plenty of good people. Sometimes I got nothing, and I didn't care, because rolls don't play favourites. Ninjas are rarer than you think with open loot rules, in my experience at least. I've certainly come across a few, and sometimes it ruins the op, but letting one person control who gets what... I'll pass thanks. I'll find another group, every time you set it on master looter in group finder, and then you'll be waiting for a replacement. The only time it should be used is when you're running with people you know and trust, like friends or guildmates, and have an agreement beforehand, but expecting pugs to abide by your loot rules in a public gf run is arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan_Vee Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 you again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Given the fact that last week was Priority Op for EV HM, it dropped the BiS MH, and is extremely pug-friendly, this was an issue. Four people I knew, in four different runs, had the 224 MH along with all the other loot from SOA, Ninja looted by raid leader. I don't think this is an issue for the normal SM GF, because SM gear is not all that desirable. But when you start temporarily throwing BiS gear into the mix, less than capable players see it as a chance to gain a gear advantage in a pretty pathetic way. What it comes down to is this: 224s should only be dropping in NiM content, end of story. When you dangle bread in front of starving children, you might see some less than humane behavior... EV HM Soa (tactical FP difficulty) dropping 224 MH is similar. Yes, I'm an elitist. And I hate you. Love, Greeto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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