What is your basis for opposing a group-searching system in SWTOR?

[Llenyd]

Community was staying up until 2 in the morning helping another guilds cleric get his epic so that we would have more of them on the server, knowing he might res me with it later. That guy in WoW was just helping you because you were a female charater. I know the WoW mentality.

 

Ragefire!

 

Another thing I would never expect to see in WoW or TOR is: in a PUG, there would be a master looter who would loot everything, sell it all to a vendor at the end of the run, then split the money equally amongst the group, and you could trust the other players to be honest. Reputation mattered. Most guilds were self-policing too; if someone in your guild was an ***, it could get your entire guild blacklisted.

 

As for the main topic, we do need an LFG tool at the least, that lists level, role, and desired grouping location. An LFD tool is nice in a lot of ways. Some will say it causes people to sit in cities waiting for a group, but you're just sitting in the city if you have to spam the chat channels. At least you have the option to go do other stuff while waiting in the queue. Increased ******tery bred by anonymity is a very real problem, though. So if an LFD tool is added it needs to be server-bound or come with a rating system.

[Lycnas]

So I log into the game. Spam general chat along with 2 thousand other people for half and hour of "fun" and "community" then log off accomplishing nothing. Frustrated I wait til prime time and try again. I respec to healing to make myself more noteworthy. I spam some more. I sit down. I stand up. I spam. I dance. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam

[Waron]

I agree with the OP, aslong as they don't make it cross server like wow. Reputation will still matter alot, don't have to be automatic either.

 

Rift did good on this, also look at DDO. Those LFG systems builds community while promoting grouping.

 

ATM I just don't do Flashpoints unless stars align and 4 guildies happen to be on at the same time that are also in the same level range.....

 

No LFG system feels like I'm back in 1997 playing EQ1, it's just lazy talk not to make a system for it.

[Graburr]

I agree with the OP, aslong as they don't make it cross server like wow. Reputation will still matter alot, don't have to be automatic either.

 

Rift did good on this

 

rift has the same x-shard dungeon finder as wow.

 

only exception are the master mode dungeons which need a premade group.

[Waron]

World of Warcraft is a fantastic example of this phenomenon. They recently introduced a random raid finder. Well how easy to raids have to be made so 'random' groups of people can be succesfull. Well CRAZY easy.. and they can't give great rewards.

 

Maybe if your hatred for wow didn't blind you from all other examples >_> There are plenty of examples of games with LFG systems and HARD raids. People just don't sign up for them as much as they do the easy ones.

 

Just because wow does it one way, doesn't mean SWTOR has to either do it THE EXACT SAME WAY or nothing at all...

 

- random is obviously bad for community.

- make a system where the leader chooses who to accept.

 

Then you keep all of the bnuses of todays system while making it easier and it will increase the amount of people willing to go into flashpoints.

 

I'd also make it possible to summon everyone to the fleet once the group is ready, as to not waste peoples time. This is more or less what RIFT did and it worked like a charm.

[Davudy]

The idea that you won't make friends and won't have a guild because an LFG system is added is ludicrous. You will certainly make friends and everyone would probably agree that a premade with people you know are good will forever be better than a complete PUG. The point of a group finder system, like a queue mechanism, is that not everyone you know is on when you are on or looking to do something when you are.

 

What you're doing without a queue system or LFG system is limiting what people can do, making it harder to find content and creating more bordom and a feel that there's nothing to do. Without it, you spend 30-40m looking for a group and scrounging to find things to do.

 

Look at Warzones as a great example. Would anyone claim that the queue system for Warzones is killing the community? Quite the opposite, it's the only way warzones work without excesively long waits and playing the same premade over and over again because you're the only two groups that could get together.

 

It's bad enough that there is no duel spec so tanks and healers are scarce, making it harder to find the few that are out there is just horrible. Without these, now expected and basic, features, people will slowly move away as they realize that the content is not accessible and that leads to a sense of boredom.

[Waron]

rift has the same x-shard dungeon finder as wow.

 

only exception are the master mode dungeons which need a premade group.

 

It didn't when I played, and it certanly wasn't random like wow. Dunno what they've done the last year. But in my rush to max in rift it was still doable to get a group. Did each dungeon there 3-4 times each for xp and gear, and I was nr 4-5 to get max level on my server.

 

The point is if you make a system that doesn't waste peoples time, and don't force them to go hooking on the general channel. Alot more people will be signing up while they solo etc.

 

If people enjoy flashpoints, why not let them run it? Efficiently...

[Waron]

It's bad enough that there is no duel spec so tanks and healers are scarce, making it harder to find the few that are out there is just horrible. Without these, now expected and basic, features, people will slowly move away as they realize that the content is not accessible and that leads to a sense of boredom.

 

Good point, it skews the player balance towards DPS specs, because for those that feel fleet general chat is a waste of time/spam. Or just don't wanna stand around Fleet doing nothing, will tend towards DPS specs since there's no need for them to tank.

[happyguy]

I beleive we should have a group finder tool.. because it is really annoying sitting there trying to find a healer, dps, and a tank... everyone agrees that in this game it is very hard to find a healer in this game because star wars is about kicking *** not sitting back and constantly healing... but anyways.. a group finding tool would make life alot easier because the system we have now isnt very good... in this game its a bit hard to find a whole group of friends on the same level... and the same quest and such so a group finding tool would be good for maybe the heroic quests and the flashpoints because finding a group in this game is nearly impossible to find 3 people al diffrent specs... I enjoyed wows group finding system myself because i dont really care to talk to anyone during a flashpoint because u really dont even have the time to so what does it matter if you talk to them or not... having random people join each other i think is a great idea because 1) no one ever has the time to talk to each other during a flashpoint because your constantly being attacked and 2) Its hard to find friends in this game all in the same place anyways... its either while your offline they get higher than you or while there offline you get higher than them... its back and forth in this game and personally i havent met anyone really to be my friend (except a few people) that is at the same level and isnt so freaking annoying and childish.

[craigisbetter]

If a lfg system is implemented it should only help with find the group. No teleporting to instances! Should stay within the server and should be more like a chat room then a plug In players system. Looking for a group should be social. My guess is the people with the problems are on low populated servers

[Davudy]

If a lfg system is implemented it should only help with find the group. No teleporting to instances! Should stay within the server and should be more like a chat room then a plug In players system. Looking for a group should be social. My guess is the people with the problems are on low populated servers

 

I'm on a server that constantly has queues and it still is horrible trying to put together hard modes. There simply are no healers and tanks (probably caused by the lack of Duel Spec) and finding them is just horrible when the best option is General Chat at Fleet. Your advertisement for whatever you're looking for is gone within 10s in the constant spam that is General.

 

As for the LFG tag in the Who system, if the Who system search had any ability to be a good search, it possibly could be useful. However, since you can't search only LFG players, can't search LFG text for specific instances/keywords and the filtering is basically non-existent, that system itself is useless. There's usually 300+ people at Fleet on The Fatman during peak times and since the limit to the who search is only 100 people, I couldn't even find everyone in LFG if I had the desire to read through every single comment in every single LFG.

[choppefett]

There's no need for a group searching tool simply because it won't change a thing. Everyone wanting to do flashpoints is at the fleet. If noone is around the fleet to run a flashpoint when you ask in chat, then they won't be in a lfg tool either.

 

In other words, the only thing it will save you, is the small effort of typing in chat once you arrive at fleet.

[craigisbetter]

I'm on a server that constantly has queues and it still is horrible trying to put together hard modes. There simply are no healers and tanks (probably caused by the lack of Duel Spec) and finding them is just horrible when the best option is General Chat at Fleet. Your advertisement for whatever you're looking for is gone within 10s in the constant spam that is General.

 

As for the LFG tag in the Who system, if the Who system search had any ability to be a good search, it possibly could be useful. However, since you can't search only LFG players, can't search LFG text for specific instances/keywords and the filtering is basically non-existent, that system itself is useless. There's usually 300+ people at Fleet on The Fatman during peak times and since the limit to the who search is only 100 people, I couldn't even find everyone in LFG if I had the desire to read through every single comment in every single LFG.

 

I agree that the who system has potential. I think you hit key points that should/could be change to make looking for a group better. Updating the who system is much better then putting in an instant queue LFG system. I think the current system could use some upgrading but i would hate to see groups being put together randomly. The player should have control of the group making grouping much more social.

 

here an example of the Who system updated (like you said) vs. a lfg system that put groups together.

 

Example: while look for a group for a FP, you come across a trooper you played with before who is flagged in Who system for the same FP as you. If you had the lfg system that auto groups people together in place, you wouldn't have know he was lookin for the same FP as you

[Sheisy]

A LFD system across servers will ruin ny sense of comunity and will promote antisocial behaviour. This can be easily verified - just play Rift or WoW for half an hour and you'll se that I'm right

[Lord_Itharius]

I'd rather sit in the Imperial Fleet for 2 hours and spam for a healer to do a bugged 30 minute hm flashpoint.

 

A LFD system across servers will ruin ny sense of comunity and will promote antisocial behaviour. This can be easily verified - just play Rift or WoW for half an hour and you'll se that I'm right

 

I've played WoW for 7 years and you're wrong. There's still a strong server community, just in the form of raiding and pvp guilds instead of casual guilds.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Lord_Itharius

[KaiHeilos]

Put the flashpoint entrances on the planet that fits the level range. kthx.

 

 

However, since you can't search only LFG players, can't search LFG text for specific instances/keywords and the filtering is basically non-existent, that system itself is useless. There's usually 300+ people at Fleet on The Fatman during peak times and since the limit to the who search is only 100 people, I couldn't even find everyone in LFG if I had the desire to read through every single comment in every single LFG.

 

/who

30-40 LFG

???

profit

 

Reading is hard.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KaiHeilos

[Niyenna]

I do not like automated group assembling tools.

 

Ask yourself this: Would I rather join a battleground/warfront/whatever TOR calls instanced pvp in a group of randomly assembled people or as a premade team?

 

The answer will always be: as a premade team. Why? Because you want to win! Premade teams usually stomp all over the competition because of their coordination and leadership.

 

This discussion is about PvE groups, but the principle still applies. Leadership and coordination in a group will result in more success. These are things you cannot get from an automated tool.

 

Of course this only makes sense if the PvE content is challenging enough to need leadership and coordination. Some games *cough*WoW*cough* have developed the idea that small group content should be incredibly easy so that players can fly through almost unhindered to grab their loot and leave. In my opinion, if you want a simple, repetitive grind for easy loot: enjoy some daily quests.

 

As for finding a good group, I agree that general spam is far from ideal. But whatever system is devised, it should focus on increasing communication between players so that they can enter a flashpoint as a cohesive team.

[Trucegore]

This is why:

 

http://tor.zamimg.com/torhead/images/maps/medium/4611686198204660000/map_republic_fleet_station_hangar_mission.jpg

 

They are all in one place. No need. If they were all over the world it may be a different story.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Trucegore

[Trucegore]

So I log into the game. Spam general chat along with 2 thousand other people for half and hour of "fun" and "community" then log off accomplishing nothing. Frustrated I wait til prime time and try again. I respec to healing to make myself more noteworthy. I spam some more. I sit down. I stand up. I spam. I dance. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam. I spam

 

Or, you could just open the LFG window and invite some people.

[Aepervius]

I am not sure a dungeon finder is necessary or even wished.

 

but consider this : add a flag for each heroic on that particular planet/station in the /who list. A player can then turn on or off that flag signaling they search for a group of that instance. A bit like setting the LFG comment.

 

Then it would be as simple as us looking in /who, sorting by that flag to see who has accepted the mission and search for a group and taking step to ask around if they want to participate.

 

or just have a LFG channel.

[Aepervius]

No I like the fact that your rep follows you. If you are anti social Pandas await you just go to them.

 

I have to ask : what rep ?

 

Apparentely there are about 1 million subs at the moment, and about 100 server (simplified). So 10000 player per server. You think you can keep track of who's who in such environment ? Not even counting alt? I am pretty sure I could not.

[Hairyzac]

I don't need your help, i need you to stop trying to block the rest of us from finding each other with an improved tool so we can get into these flashpoints more efficiently.

 

Right now there are 0 people in cademimu and two people in taral v at going on 7pm on my server.

 

I'm sure somewhere someone is helping you complete an easily soloable quest atm though, so its all roses.

 

Actually I like to solo the heroic 2 man quests. It is quite fun. And to duo the 4 man heroic ones is also quite fun. I haven't found it hard to find a group for FPs since early access started. Usually takes me 2-5 minutes.

 

Also I don't want to help you, I just wish you wouldn't act like a child. Certainly though your posts aren't helping your case. Maybe you can even see that?

[Hairyzac]

If a lfg system is implemented it should only help with find the group. No teleporting to instances! Should stay within the server and should be more like a chat room then a plug In players system. Looking for a group should be social. My guess is the people with the problems are on low populated servers

 

Great post Craig I agree.

[DLSilence]

This one is simple to put to bed, all the flashpoint shuttles leave from the Fleet, yes? Minus those two pesky ones on Ilum.. so why do you need a "finder"? If you want the group you should be on the Fleet anyways.. gg afk zombies waiting for the all powerful group ready box!! Go back to your pathetic dead wow. Edited December 29, 2011 by DLSilence

[Graburr]

I have to ask : what rep ?

 

Apparentely there are about 1 million subs at the moment, and about 100 server (simplified). So 10000 player per server. You think you can keep track of who's who in such environment ? Not even counting alt? I am pretty sure I could not.

 

but you DO know that there are 2 factions per server, and you see the majority of people again, especially the ones you leveled with?