So since you nerfed Shadow/Assassin Dotspread

[foxmob]

Now that it is simply a force based nuke attack, there is no reason for it to not have 30 meters again. It has no added utility beyond it's damage now. It's no longer dangerous at 30 meters.

 

better that than the troll ability they gave deception.

[waterboytkd]

Without FiB at 30m, do Hatred have any 30m attacks that can stop a cap? Not counting using Recklessness.

 

If the answer is no, then sure, let FiB be a 30m attack.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Not going to hit the same targets again. But the dots can be spread like a chain in Regs and much easier reapplied in yolo, if needed. Their heals will be easier to gained at any 1 vs n situation.

 

Sure returning DF to 30m is logical, but since you agree that the lacerate change is not much of a difference in pvp, it would be more interesting to put the spec in line with the rest of the classes instead of further enhancements imo.

 

Yes, but you have to keep in mind, they nerfed the healing from Dots REALLY hard too. Hatred is already extremely flimsy compared to Deception, having almost 20% less DR during a fight. They nerfed self heals from 25% damage on dots to only 10% so the heals are easily negligible. I think on really good games (Ranked!) I would average 6k healing after the nerf to heals from dots. That's nothing lol.

 

I don't mind drastic changes to the class, and yes, bringing it in line with others is good, but not by nerfing abilities for one reason, correcting that reason, then keeping the ability nerfed for no justified reason.

 

But hey, at least all the sin rerollers will be moving on now

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Without FiB at 30m, do Hatred have any 30m attacks that can stop a cap? Not counting using Recklessness.

 

If the answer is no, then sure, let FiB be a 30m attack.

 

No they don't.

 

Scou/Ops - Basic attack

Merc/Mando - Basic attack

Powertech/Vg - Basic attack

Sniper/slinger - Basic attack

Sorc/Sage - Everything they have, rofl..

Mara/Sent - Twin Saber throw

Jug/Guard - Saber throw

 

Sin/Shadow - Nothing. Would have to use recklessness and waste a charge for a 30 meter ability. And Deception gets low slash, but hatred gets nothing.

[Glower]

Scou/Ops - Basic attack

 

Please, Leth op will cry in happiness if u give them half of your utilities and powers. Don't even start a comparison war.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Glower

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Please, Leth op will cry in happiness if u give them half of your utilities and powers. Don't even start a comparison war.

 

*** are you on about? That reply was to someone who said "Does hatred have any 30m abilities to stop caps in regular warzones without recklessness" The answer is no, they don't.

 

This has nothing to do with utilities or powers, please read before you post.

[Zoom_VI]

Without FiB at 30m, do Hatred have any 30m attacks that can stop a cap? Not counting using Recklessness.

 

If the answer is no, then sure, let FiB be a 30m attack.

 

Does a class that has stealth, a teleport, two different CC immunity cooldowns, and force speed need to have the ability to stop a cap at 30m?

 

Also since Deathfield is a 8m radius PAoE, giving it 30m range would actually allow Hatred to stop caps from 38 meters away compared to the current 18m.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[foxmob]

Does a class that has stealth, a teleport, two different CC immunity cooldowns, and force speed need to have the ability to stop a cap at 30m?

 

mmm....yeah. I was thinking the same. the 60m teleport is why I lol'd when I read it though.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Does a class that has stealth, a teleport, two different CC immunity cooldowns, and force speed need to have the ability to stop a cap at 30m?

 

>Ability to spread dots at 30 meters deemed too strong

>Nerfs 30m range to 10m

>Ability to spread dots outside of melee range too strong.

>Nerfs 10m range to 4m range

>Original nerf no longer is necessary because FiB/DF can no longer spread dots in is a purely damaging ability

 

Naturally the next step is to revert the change. It's a purely damaging ability now that gives a minor buff to dots and nothing more. It's not dangerous at 30m anymore. Not to mention what this did to PvE, raiding is gonna suck balls even more on my shadow now, may as well bench it for raiding purposes.

[Zoom_VI]

>Ability to spread dots at 30 meters deemed too strong

>Nerfs 30m range to 10m

>Ability to spread dots outside of melee range too strong.

>Nerfs 10m range to 4m range

>Original nerf no longer is necessary because FiB/DF can no longer spread dots in is a purely damaging ability

 

Naturally the next step is to revert the change. It's a purely damaging ability now that gives a minor buff to dots and nothing more. It's not dangerous at 30m anymore. Not to mention what this did to PvE, raiding is gonna suck balls even more on my shadow now, may as well bench it for raiding purposes.

 

Where are you getting that the original range nerf was because of dotspread? If I recall the PTS wording correctly they rationalized the change because they wanted to enforce Hatred as a melee class.

 

Also it's still a ~6k internal damage PAoE that has a diameter that is longer than guard range. Don't give us ******** about deathfield being weak.

 

Also if you want your sin to be good in PvE you should start asking for Hatred to be nerfed out of PvP viability. Hatred was already mediocre in PvE at the height of it's power in PvP, Hatred cannot be made raid viable without turning it's god status in PvP back on.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[Lhancelot]

Where are you getting that the original range nerf was because of dotspread? If I recall the PTS wording correctly they rationalized the change because they wanted to enforce Hatred as a melee class.

 

Also it's still a ~6k internal damage PAoE that has a diameter that is longer than guard range. Don't give us ******** about deathfield being weak.

 

Also if you want your sin to be good in PvE you should start asking for Hatred to be nerfed out of PvP viability. Hatred was already mediocre in PvE at the height of it's power in PvP, Hatred cannot be made raid viable without turning it's god status in PvP back on.

 

Shots fired!

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Where are you getting that the original range nerf was because of dotspread? If I recall the PTS wording correctly they rationalized the change because they wanted to enforce Hatred as a melee class.

 

Also it's still a ~6k internal damage PAoE that has a diameter that is longer than guard range. Don't give us ******** about deathfield being weak.

 

Also if you want your sin to be good in PvE you should start asking for Hatred to be nerfed out of PvP viability. Hatred was already mediocre in PvE at the height of it's power in PvP, Hatred cannot be made raid viable without turning it's god status in PvP back on.

 

Not dangerous =/= weak

 

I said 30m range is not dangerous anymore compared to when it had the possibility to put 12k damage worth of dots on up to 8 targets. I never said anything about it being weak, maybe you should read a bit closer and refrain to jumping to unfounded assumptions. Bringing 30m range back would help give Hatred/Serenity some of it's old identity back as well as do leaps and bounds for Hatred/Serenity in a PvE Environment.

[Jadescythe]

I don't understand why people are saying the change isn't a nerf or putting nerf in quotes. The class is weaker because of the change, so it is by definition a nerf. That does not mean that the class will be weak, however. I would say we need to see how the class plays with the change prior to making anymore tweaks in power.

[Zoom_VI]

Not dangerous =/= weak

 

I said 30m range is not dangerous anymore compared to when it had the possibility to put 12k damage worth of dots on up to 8 targets. I never said anything about it being weak, maybe you should read a bit closer and refrain to jumping to unfounded assumptions. Bringing 30m range back would help give Hatred/Serenity some of it's old identity back as well as do leaps and bounds for Hatred/Serenity in a PvE Environment.

 

How about we get Hatred to where it's not the god class of both forms of ranked first, and then sometime after that worry about it's identity. Besides the devs have explicitly stated that Hatred's identity is supposed to be that of a melee class.

 

Besides if we are on the subject of bring back identity. Why don't we go and bring back Vanguard DPS old identity then?

Edited June 18, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[BaineOs]

Besides if we are on the subject of bring back identity. Why don't we go and bring back Vanguard DPS old identity then?

 

Or better yet bring back the identify of the engineering sniper as it was in 2.10

[TheJollyRogers]

Lay down your phasewalk at the cap. I don't see why you need a 30m AoE attack to stop caps when you have an instant teleport from 60m. If you're approaching the cap for the first time, a force speed + DF/FiB will work perfectly fine.

 

Hatred needed to be reinforced as melee. Returning one of the 10m abilities to 30m is counter-intuitive to that goal.

 

Nerfs are supposed to reduce your power. It doesn't mean you get compensated in another way. Everyone knows Hatred is over-performing.

Edited June 18, 2015 by TheJollyRogers

[Potato_Chipz]

Lay down your phasewalk at the cap. I don't see why you need a 30m AoE attack to stop caps when you have an instant teleport from 60m. If you're approaching the cap for the first time, a force speed + DF/FiB will work perfectly fine.

 

Hatred needed to be reinforced as melee. Returning one of the 10m abilities to 30m is counter-intuitive to that goal.

 

Nerfs are supposed to reduce your power. It doesn't mean you get compensated in another way. Everyone knows Hatred is over-performing.

 

We are not saying we want to be compensated, we are saying the mechanic is no longer in the game so there is now no reason for the df range nerf now anymore and they should undo it. Also why the **** would i waste my pw like that and a df cd lol...

Edited June 18, 2015 by Potato_Chipz

[Lhancelot]

 

Besides if we are on the subject of bring back identity. Why don't we go and bring back Vanguard DPS old identity then?

 

Zoom, stop derailing this Sin thread into a PT/VG thread! Goodness man, you have a sickness! VG-itis I think it's called.

 

You have a good point though. They need to bring back the VG/PT identity, the one before 3.0, when the class was strong but not OP'd with godly burst! I have to agree with you on this one. Yes, bring the OLD VG identity back.

[TheJollyRogers]

We are not saying we want to be compensated, we are saying the mechanic is no longer in the game so there is now no reason for the df range nerf now anymore and they should undo it. Also why the **** would i waste my pw like that and a df cd lol...

 

Because it sounds like the only real reason you guys are asking for 30m DF back is for cap stops. Otherwise, you really are just asking BioWare to reverse their decision to maintain you as a primarily melee class. We don't even know if the DF range nerf was solely because it spread DoTs. They've been dropping ranged abilities for melee classes across the board (such as the removal of Orbital from Operatives, Unload from Powertechs).

 

Melee should be dealing damage in melee. It's not hard. Roll a Madness Sorcerer if you want to DF at 30m.

[Hei_Atzfel]

Because it sounds like the only real reason you guys are asking for 30m DF back is for cap stops. Otherwise, you really are just asking BioWare to reverse their decision to maintain you as a primarily melee class. We don't even know if the DF range nerf was solely because it spread DoTs. They've been dropping ranged abilities for melee classes across the board (such as the removal of Orbital from Operatives, Unload from Powertechs).

 

Melee should be dealing damage in melee. It's not hard. Roll a Madness Sorcerer if you want to DF at 30m.

 

Meanwhile AP PT still has 3 30m abilities and a spammable filler at 15m

[foxmob]

Meanwhile AP PT still has 3 30m abilities and a spammable filler at 15m

 

all true and, frankly, that's out of hand given the burst capabilities and instant nature of all their attacks, but in their defense, they are supposed to be rangy and have always been designed that way.

 

personally, I don't understand why they extended the range on...was it TD? they pushed incendiary to 30m as well, but that spec is so fubar, it didn't matter. I would like to see them shrink AP down to no more than 15m (with 5m utility tax), preferably 10m for everything but dfa, rapid shots, grapple, explosive dart, missile blast (most of those are necessary for tanks but have nothing to do with pvp dps roto so they're not an issue in terms of range dmg). but...I mean...there's so much I think is wrong with 3.0, it's hard to just fix one class/spec.

[Saikochoro]

all true and, frankly, that's out of hand given the burst capabilities and instant nature of all their attacks, but in their defense, they are supposed to be rangy and have always been designed that way.

 

personally, I don't understand why they extended the range on...was it TD? they pushed incendiary to 30m as well, but that spec is so fubar, it didn't matter. I would like to see them shrink AP down to no more than 15m (with 5m utility tax), preferably 10m for everything but dfa, rapid shots, grapple, explosive dart, missile blast (most of those are necessary for tanks but have nothing to do with pvp dps roto so they're not an issue in terms of range dmg). but...I mean...there's so much I think is wrong with 3.0, it's hard to just fix one class/spec.

 

I think their range issue would be mitigated a lot with the following changes:

 

1. TD back to 10m

2. Rail shot once again requires a debuff of some sort (dots)

3. Rail shot can't be proc'd from range (no more flame sweep/explosive dart proc'ing rail shot)

4. Instead of adding 5m to flame burst/magnetic blast change the utility to add 5m to immolate & TD....it already helps tanks via flame sweep radius increase.

[foxmob]

I think their range issue would be mitigated a lot with the following changes:

 

1. TD back to 10m

2. Rail shot once again requires a debuff of some sort (dots)

3. Rail shot can't be proc'd from range (no more flame sweep/explosive dart proc'ing rail shot)

4. Instead of adding 5m to flame burst/magnetic blast change the utility to add 5m to immolate & TD....it already helps tanks via flame sweep radius increase.

 

you're mixing abilities from different specs there. is it intentional? nothing wrong with rail being 30m, but I agree on the debuff. anyway...it's pointless to even have this discussion with this spec. it has to happen with about 10 specs, and hatred really is an outlier - brutally effective in all formats.

[Zoom_VI]

Meanwhile AP PT still has 3 30m abilities and a spammable filler at 15m

To be fair bioware has never actually defined PTs as a melee, although they did define the tank spec as a melee in their rational for FA removal. The playerbase itself can't even make up its mind, or rather people seem to vary between defining it as a melee, a mid-range, or a ranged, typically choosing whichever one is convenient to their argument.

 

You have a good point though. They need to bring back the VG/PT identity, the one before 3.0, when the class was strong but not OP'd with godly burst! I have to agree with you on this one. Yes, bring the OLD VG identity back.

 

lolwut, 2.10 DPS powertech was a significantly stronger class than current iteration. If they had actually buffed us from 2.10 to 3.0 I would not be here "defending" as you call it.

[iamnotshrek]

I'm fully in favor of giving 30m death field back to assassins, getting rid of it in the first place was pretty dumb imo.

 

On another note, I don't really understand why some people are under the impression that hatred assassin is ridiculously overpowered. It's really not, and both the solo and group ranked leaderboards back this up. Its certainly among the better classes, but theres way more pt's, sorcs and operatives over 2k than assassins.

Edited June 19, 2015 by iamnotshrek