Fallen Empire and Implications on Current Raiding

[Icebergy]

I trust EA to do what's best to gain them the most cash. And I certainly trust their corporate greed a lot more than random doom-and-gloom from random people on the internet.

 

It's not doom and gloom, we don't even know for certain if there will be new Ops or not. I'm merely pointing out the repercussions that the "yay go away and die raiders" crowd and/or Bioware have not thought of.

 

I am happy that there will be a renewed focus on story, I love story, its why I picked this MMO. But I picked an MMO, not an episodic single player RPG that I have to pay a subscription to receive the episodes. I pay a subscription to raid.

[Infernixx]

I pay a subscription to raid.

 

And now, you can pay a subscription to get the monthly Chapters. Hooray for change.

[Jadescythe]

Well, considering most of the players are content with new story content, I think we'll be just fine even if the raiders and hardcore PVPers quit. It's not like there's a lot of either of those.

 

I think your statement is reflective of your own views. I don't think "most players" are content with any one thing. I think a majority of the player base loved the stories and are happy to see a renewed focus on it, but those players are also interested in PvP or Operations or Conquest or RP or any number of things. I'm sure BW has content in store for these areas as well that will come to light as we get closer to October or after the expansion is actually released.

 

I also don't like the attitude that BW should give up on a subset of players simply because you don't care if they play. One of the big draws to MMOs over single player games is the group content. Even if you aren't doing progression raiding, there are plenty of players interested in having new operations to take on and complete with friends and guildies.

[RoboArthurDayne]

I also don't like the attitude that BW should give up on a subset of players simply because you don't care if they play. One of the big draws to MMOs over single player games is the group content. Even if you aren't doing progression raiding, there are plenty of players interested in having new operations to take on and complete with friends and guildies.

 

Bioware hasn't given up entirely on that tiny subset of raiders, they just happen to be paying more attention to everyone else that also happen to be the majority of players.

[Jadescythe]

Bioware hasn't given up entirely on that tiny subset of raiders, they just happen to be paying more attention to everyone else that also happen to be the majority of players.

 

I'm positive they haven't given up on them and I never said they did...

[AlrikFassbauer]

they said they will boost 55 and 60 stuff to be endgame again

 

Level 60 OPs don't have NIM yet ... (Or NIMH, if you get the pun )

[curulz]

And now, you can pay a subscription to get the monthly Chapters. Hooray for change.

 

I don't like change. It's weird and scary.

[MillionsKNives]

Level 60 OPs don't have NIM yet ... (Or NIMH, if you get the pun )

 

The current HM ops are pretty close to the NiM level of the previous tier. I'm not so sure adding a NiM to the current tier is necessary. How many guilds have actually cleared the HM so far?

[branmakmuffin]

Level 60 OPs don't have NIM yet ... (Or NIMH, if you get the pun )

Since no one mentioned anything about a secret, it's more of a reference rather than a pun.

[znihilist]

The current HM ops are pretty close to the NiM level of the previous tier. I'm not so sure adding a NiM to the current tier is necessary. How many guilds have actually cleared the HM so far?

 

Maybe that's the point, as in that's what they mean they are focusing on story content: No NiM OPs, but they will release new operations with KotFE.

[FerkWork]

The current HM ops are pretty close to the NiM level of the previous tier. I'm not so sure adding a NiM to the current tier is necessary. How many guilds have actually cleared the HM so far?

 

Very few. I believe its something like 30 total guilds.When at you look at the number of players who actually cleared it as many of the guilds that have cleared it have the same people in it as high caliber raiding guilds share similar rosters. As for NiM Rav/ToS there is going to be little interest if more can't clear the instances. Tbh, Until major (I mean major) nerfs hit Master and Blaster, Cora, and Revan there is little justification for making NiM versions of these fights as the number who have beaten these bosses is too small that very few would jump into NiM. Revan itself imho is hard as DP NiM Council at level in the coordination and synchronization required. So yeah, new Ops would be good but NiM is just silly at this point.

Edited June 16, 2015 by FerkWork

[Rafaman]

I don't like change. It's weird and scary.

 

Me neither.... I want to go back to the old days before group finder.

[BrianDavion]

Very few. I believe its something like 30 total guilds.When at you look at the number of players who actually cleared it as many of the guilds that have cleared it have the same people in it as high caliber raiding guilds share similar rosters. As for NiM Rav/ToS there is going to be little interest if more can't clear the instances. Tbh, Until major (I mean major) nerfs hit Master and Blaster, Cora, and Revan there is little justification for making NiM versions of these fights as the number who have beaten these bosses is too small that very few would jump into NiM. Revan itself imho is hard as DP NiM Council at level in the coordination and synchronization required. So yeah, new Ops would be good but NiM is just silly at this point.

 

IMHO they made the decision to cut Nightmare mode from the raid cycle and just go with 2, the problem is that they essentially cut the old story mode.

[Icebergy]

And now, you can pay a subscription to get the monthly Chapters. Hooray for change.

 

Why can't there be both? Why is my side of the argument that Bioware should support as many different playstyles as they can and yours is 'don't like it then quit'?

[Draqsko]

Oh god, the assumptions are running rampant.

 

Someone sacrifice something to Ptach so we can get someone in here to quiet the Chicken Littles?

 

I tried, but apparently it is insufficient. I fear we may have to sacrifice all the forum users to get his attention this time.

[Infernixx]

Why can't there be both? Why is my side of the argument that Bioware should support as many different playstyles as they can and yours is 'don't like it then quit'?

 

Because there's only a certain amount of time in the day and if you put equal attention and money and time on all aspects, then you run out of time in a hurry.

 

Basically, I doubt operations-focused players put in enough revenue to cover the cost of Operations development.

[JediSnaps]

I can't imagine they won't add an op or 2 to this and even a pvp map at some point. I can totally see fp's being added, the gsi droid removed in favor of selecting your team from your companions to go through it with for the story.

 

These fp's of course will be tuned for group content as well as probably tacticals. Ops I'd imagine will make a return after the expansion just because why an unnecessary gear grind right before a cap increase?

 

The pvp map I'm not to sure on when that would drop, but I also guess after the expansion to be based somehow off that. I'm also not to bothered by it either, I played WoW for years with the same 3 bg's in it and never cared, I just like hitting opp ( other people's pixels).

 

It's a little early for the Herald to be proclaiming death to end/elder game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I can't imagine they won't add an op or 2 to this and even a pvp map at some point. I can totally see fp's being added, the gsi droid removed in favor of selecting your team from your companions to go through it with for the story.

 

These fp's of course will be tuned for group content as well as probably tacticals. Ops I'd imagine will make a return after the expansion just because why an unnecessary gear grind right before a cap increase?

 

The pvp map I'm not to sure on when that would drop, but I also guess after the expansion to be based somehow off that. I'm also not to bothered by it either, I played WoW for years with the same 3 bg's in it and never cared, I just like hitting opp ( other people's pixels).

 

It's a little early for the Herald to be proclaiming death to end/elder game.

 

Wow yeah never occurred to me of having the companions running the FPs with us for new content, this would be pretty cool and seems like a logical reality considering the seemed focus on companions from the wee hints they've dropped.

[Djiini]

The implication is this a story based game and everyone who plays for the 'elder game' is a doof.

[Rafaman]

Why can't there be both? Why is my side of the argument that Bioware should support as many different playstyles as they can and yours is 'don't like it then quit'?

 

We can and will have both. This stuff goes in cycles. They are focusing on story now but just like before, they will come back to End Game and or pvp and expand strongholds etc.

 

Don't let the fear mongering get to you.

 

And for those that need a link as proof. Here you go: http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/15/8736559/star-wars-old-republic-knights-of-the-fallen-empire-expansion

 

"We can look at this stuff and say, 'look, if you want to go and play the standard MMO game — PvP, doing a flashpoint, operation raiding — we have that. We've always had that. We continue to expand on that. But we also heard, loud and clear, this scream for story, for personal custom story."

[AMightyKnight]

The article proofs the exact opposite. They are focusing on story now and endgame will be in maintenance mode until they are done with the current chapters. So we'll get nothing before q3 2016.

If they would work operations, they would have said so and not talk about rescaling old content to 60+.

Edited June 17, 2015 by AMightyKnight

[MeNaCe-NZ]

We can and will have both. This stuff goes in cycles. They are focusing on story now but just like before, they will come back to End Game and or pvp and expand strongholds etc.

 

Don't let the fear mongering get to you.

 

And for those that need a link as proof. Here you go: http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/15/8736559/star-wars-old-republic-knights-of-the-fallen-empire-expansion

 

"We can look at this stuff and say, 'look, if you want to go and play the standard MMO game — PvP, doing a flashpoint, operation raiding — we have that. We've always had that. We continue to expand on that. But we also heard, loud and clear, this scream for story, for personal custom story."

 

This expansion is the new end game imo with their plan on regular releases.

 

In saying that I have no doubt they will release operations and flashpoints etc. ( pvp rarely gets love in the form of maps which is why I've always assumed it's the least played form of the game ) but they won't be a major focus any more ( like an integral part of the story ) beyond what we saw with SoR.

 

It's people crying about this shift in focus being the death of the game that are somewhat irksome in all the discussions I've seen going on.

[Khiriath]

The article proofs the exact opposite. They are focusing on story now and endgame will be in maintenance mode until they are done with the current chapters. So we'll get nothing before q3 2016.

If they would work operations, they would have said so and not talk about rescaling old content to 60+.

 

Actually no it doesn't. At most it states that we probably aren't going to get any new ops until mid to late winter. Which is what Milas from <Zorz> said in his <Zorz> is quitting podcast. Specifically that he had an email from BW that there would be no new ops until the winter, and he posted the email as proof.

 

Moving on from that. TFB, SNV, DF, DP, Rav, and TOS are all current and mostly de-bugged ops in game. However we have currently three tiers of ops. Lvl 50, Lvl 55 and Lvl 60. Once you come to the lvl 60 ops any and all idea of logical gear progression(which I would argue did exist in the lvl 55 ops pre-expansion) simply disappears. Story Mode TOS only requires 186 gear, while HM requires 198, and the amount of grinding a single op in order to get set bonus is just horrendous.

 

Then they added HM Colossal Monolith with a 204 RNG item. Assuming you had completed and gotten your ful 198 set from HM Rav and TOS, and still wanted gear progression(i.e. 204 mods and enhancements). Assuming that the RNG went your way and that you ground that op about 8 times a week, it would take you 3mos of grinding on alts, 96 total kills(at minimum, becaue of the RNG bit) to fully gear an 8m ops team.

 

Now for those of us who are serious raiders, that is simply a broken endgame. I can only run a Ravagers so many times and have it be fun. There needed to be a change. If they are smart about how they rescale ops, making the old lvl 50 ops the now lvl 60 ops and the lvl 55 and 60 ops the lvl 65 ops, they will be able to restore a logical form of gear, and thus content progression that will be able to keep us serious raiders busy while they develop new content. Hopefully they won't allow progression to become this broken again the future.

 

If they simply released 2 more ops, now lvl 65 and did not scaling of old ops, we would have the same sort of broken endgame content that has driven serious raiders from the game, it is the reason <Zorz> quit after all.

 

If they scale the lvl 55 and 60 ops to be the new lvl 65 ops then we have 6 ops, with three tiers of difficulty to progress through, in addition to what seems to be a story line that can be highly personalized.

 

You may disagree but to me that seems to be a good amount of content for an expansion. As a serious raider I don't mind doing TFB again if it will result in the restoration a logical gear progression that is also a bit diversified, as it was in the lvl 55ops, than I will be happy. Much happier than if I got just 2 new ops with the same necessity of grindyness as we have now.

[Cypherz]

 

Then they added HM Colossal Monolith with a 204 RNG item. Assuming you had completed and gotten your ful 198 set from HM Rav and TOS, and still wanted gear progression(i.e. 204 mods and enhancements). Assuming that the RNG went your way and that you ground that op about 8 times a week, it would take you 3mos of grinding on alts, 96 total kills(at minimum, becaue of the RNG bit) to fully gear an 8m ops team.

 

 

I don't mean to derail you or anything, but the 204 mods/enhancements are bound to the mainhand. You can't use them to optimize the rest of your gear. BiS for everything else is still only 198. That would be utter horse**** if you had to grind for a single random piece of gear amongst 8/16 people in order to optimize an entire set of gear.

[branmakmuffin]

Why can't there be both? Why is my side of the argument that Bioware should support as many different playstyles as they can and yours is 'don't like it then quit'?

Because it's just a game. If you don't like it, quit. That's what I'll do when I stop liking it (if that happens before the game shuts down).

Edited June 17, 2015 by branmakmuffin