Can we bring back 'Recruit' Gear?

[Joesixxpack]

Come on, just get full 162 mods, you get them for free while questing if you don't bin it for the 178 gear.

 

Just get two shells, 1 for PVP and 1 for PVE. Try to augment your PVP set with blue level 56 augments and then wack full 162 mods in it, done. I believe you also need 2 expertise crystals in your weapons otherwise you'll be capped at 1936 expertise because PVE crystals don't get bolstered, only the armorings, mods and enhancements.

 

You can also buy the 162 mods for basic comms which you should have plenty of by the time you hit 60.

 

You're preaching to the choir. This thread is for idiot-proofing things to deal with the bozos who can't read your post because their drool is making the screen blurry.

[Jadescythe]

Your major problem is that SoR gives 178 gear and Ziost gives 190 gear. Both of which cause terrible bolstering. Recruit gear will not work, just like it didn't work before. Not because it wasn't competitive, but because people were too lazy to find it and put it on or didn't like how it looked. You couldn't augment it because it wasn't going to last so you had that disadvantage as well.

 

The point Fox brought up is the best option. No one has less than 2018 expertise in the warzone. Bolster people with high level gear down in stats and give them expertise. Then you take out the intelligence factor and you can raid/level/RP/daily/troll and PvP in the same gear.

[L-RANDLE]

The only real.answer is to boost everyone to raid quality and whatever EXP number they deem necessary to have ttk where they want it.

 

Delete gear entirely as it relates to PvP. If they haven't learned by now, I pity these devs and the decision makers of this game. Gear grinds, don't keep people playing. Good meta, engagement with the community, and ramping of content does. PvP= piss poor maintenance mode..

Edited June 2, 2015 by L-RANDLE

[Jadescythe]

The only real.answer is to boost everyone to raid quality and whatever EXP number they deem necessary to have ttk where they want it.

 

Delete gear entirely as it relates to PvP. If they haven't learned by now, I pity these devs and the decision makers of this game. Gear grinds, don't keep people playing. Good meta, engagement with the community, and ramping of content does. PvP= piss poor maintenance mode..

 

I'd be fine with no gear grind, but the gear grind will be all but gone with 3.3. I'm fine with people having to do a little PvP to get the PvP gear, but not the amount necessary today.

[MusicRider]

Well the solution is much simpler. Simply bolster each pve gear piece, regardless of level, to an equivalent virtual "recruit" gear piece.

 

EDIT: Pros: It will never be taken advantage in pve as it simply does not exist in reality. Devs will only have to adjust 14 pieces of gear, which is pretty trivial as it can be the previous ranked gear tier, so today's bolster recruit=brutalizer. No longer needed to play with bolster equations that have been often a miss.

Edited June 2, 2015 by MusicRider

[L-RANDLE]

Well the solution is much simpler. Simply bolster each pve gear piece, regardless of level, to an equivalent virtual "recruit" gear piece.

 

BW has shown that isn't a simple task.

 

That's asking to make bolster more complex than it already is. It would have to throttle up and throttle down. I propose a one way street throttle up to max level. If you want some gearing for PvP, make EXP adds as a separate gear slot with minor increases or no EXP adds from gear at all...

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Short answer... No, to free recruit gear

 

You are giving no actual argument against not having Recruit Gear again. It was very nice in Launch, and would work very well now that PvP is more established. New players and new toons get completely dominated. Recruit gear would even the playing field. Which is a good thing.

[L-RANDLE]

You are giving no actual argument against not having Recruit Gear again. It was very nice in Launch, and would work very well now that PvP is more established. New players and new toons get completely dominated. Recruit gear would even the playing field. Which is a good thing.

 

That's a bit misleading. New players get gear that fully bolsters if they take the time to actually understand PvP. The issue is raid quality/endgame gear.

[Jadescythe]

You are giving no actual argument against not having Recruit Gear again. It was very nice in Launch, and would work very well now that PvP is more established. New players and new toons get completely dominated. Recruit gear would even the playing field. Which is a good thing.

 

Provided you don't overgear bolster and augment the gear you are using, you won't get dominated purely based on gear. Recruit gear didn't work because players didn't use it and it was a waste to augment it (which is an actual gear gap).

[SOULCASTER]

Come on, just get full 162 mods, you get them for free while questing if you don't bin it for the 178 gear.

 

The problem is most knowledgeable-daily-pvpers know that. However most knowledgeable-daily-pvpers are also like maybe 40% of the player pool participating in warzones. The other 60% are a combination of: new, don't care, don't understand or even know what bolster is and pve heroes that legitimately think their 192/198 gear is better.

 

Uneducated people on the way in which pvp and bolster works in game is is probably THE leading cause of people coming to the forums spamming ''nerf X-class'' threads, as they have 300 expertise in warzones and ranked matches getting globalled.

 

Making a new 'recruit gear' coupled with mandatory 2018 expertise in order to queue for warzones, will fix all of these problems as it leaves no doubt as to your team mates finally being properly geared to start pvping.

Edited June 2, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

That's a bit misleading. New players get gear that fully bolsters if they take the time to actually understand PvP. The issue is raid quality/endgame gear.

 

They do, but the game does not tell them that. And it's technically an un-intended consequince of how Bolster works... I'm talking a full set of "Recruit" gear that is moddable, with no Set Bonus, so it's worth augmenting (Because you can mod it) and it would not make people want to skip from Tier 1 (Recruit) to Tier 3 (Dark Reaver)

[MusicRider]

BW has shown that isn't a simple task.

 

That's asking to make bolster more complex than it already is. It would have to throttle up and throttle down. I propose a one way street throttle up to max level. If you want some gearing for PvP, make EXP adds as a separate gear slot with minor increases or no EXP adds from gear at all...

 

Not sure how it is up or down... It is simple, you have exhumed/dark reaver no replacement, you have pve gear piece (ie something that has 0 expertise in it), replace it with brutalizer (recruit) in wzs. This way any pve gear will always be worse than the current pvp one, and since it is not really physical gear there is no issue with pve balance.

[L-RANDLE]

They do, but the game does not tell them that. And it's technically an un-intended consequince of how Bolster works... I'm talking a full set of "Recruit" gear that is moddable, with no Set Bonus, so it's worth augmenting (Because you can mod it) and it would not make people want to skip from Tier 1 (Recruit) to Tier 3 (Dark Reaver)

 

But what's the difference between.recruit gear and having modifiable PVE sets attained by questing, getting bolstered to 2018.+Main+End?

 

Nothing...

 

In fact bolster works better for new players than recruit gear ever did. The issue is about endgame gear. Raid/FP gear that's higher than the bolster cutoff. So I guess you should say players "New to PVP" vs New players in the game.

[Jadescythe]

But what's the difference between.recruit gear and having modifiable PVE sets attained by questing, getting bolstered to 2018.+Main+End?

 

Nothing...

 

In fact bolster works better for new players than recruit gear ever did. The issue is about endgame gear. Raid/FP gear that's higher than the bolster cutoff. So I guess you should say players "New to PVP" vs New players in the game.

 

It's not even about raid/FP gear. Questing gear is above the bolster cap in SoR.

[L-RANDLE]

Not sure how it is up or down... It is simple, you have exhumed/dark reaver no replacement, you have pve gear piece (ie something that has 0 expertise in it), replace it with brutalizer (recruit) in wzs. This way any pve gear will always be worse than the current pvp one, and since it is not really physical gear there is no issue with pve balance.

 

Because you are changing stats. Depending on which gear you are wearing. Bolster isn't designed as a replacement. It's an add or subtract or do nothing type of system. They are not going to scrap this entire design to move to a substitution system..

[Zoom_VI]

Not sure how it is up or down... It is simple, you have exhumed/dark reaver no replacement, you have pve gear piece (ie something that has 0 expertise in it), replace it with brutalizer (recruit) in wzs. This way any pve gear will always be worse than the current pvp one, and since it is not really physical gear there is no issue with pve balance.

 

I don't think bioware wants to deal with the massive rage storm that would happen when the PvE'ers come into the warzone and realize they have less endurance, mainstat, etc.

[MusicRider]

Because you are changing stats. Depending on which gear you are wearing. Bolster isn't designed as a replacement. It's an add or subtract or do nothing type of system. They are not going to scrap this entire design to move to a substitution system..

 

Except that a conditional replacement is also changing your stats up or down depending on the level of the gear while it guarantees 2018 expertise when not mixing pvp/pve mods (something that is not different from the current bolster). And of course they can scrap the entire design which has taken so long to find more or less now balanced equations if the replacement system achieves the same goals and even better while being simpler to modify and trivial to implement. As trivial as:

for g in gear:
 if g.expertise == 0:
   g = recruit.g
 if not g.augment:
   g.augment = blue_mainstat_augment

with the only decision to make how much better is exhumed over (virtual) recruit.

[MusicRider]

I don't think bioware wants to deal with the massive rage storm that would happen when the PvE'ers come into the warzone and realize they have less endurance, mainstat, etc.

 

Except that whoever pver rages about it has no understanding of the expertise system, cause they might come in a war zone with 50k+ endurance but their expertise is so low that they are cannon fodder wet noodle.

[-Garmonbozia]

Actually, my guildy showed up in full optimized 198s (with a 192 mainhand) last night and got 3rd place in damage on his slinger in Marksmanship spec, beaten only by me and another guildy (who was another vanguard also in full PvP gear). The 4th guildy was optimized 198s / 192 mainhand Commando Healer. We also died the least out of everyone despite not really acting like a premade and just running around like a headless chicken.

 

And since I wasn't getting any abnormally high hits its safe to assume all my enemies had 2018 expertise

 

Though all this proves is that you need skill to survive + do damage with DECENT PvE gear, something a lot of bads dont have as they show up with full Ultimate Comm gear to PvP and wonder why they suck so bad (here's a hint, stop using ultimate comm gear )

 

Let's be honest here, if your guild member came in 3rd in damage in an 8 player match, even if all 8 players were dps that's the equivalent of getting a 62.5% or a D on a test (barely passing). That's not doing great. Also, bear in mind it's pretty unlikely it was an 8 man dps only team. But the real point is, if you'd been playing against a good team of geared pvpers, you would have left that match in a different frame of mind because 198s do not keep up with full min/maxed DR gear.

 

But while we're at it, out of curiosity, what was the dps and overall damage on that pve sniper in 3rd place?

Edited June 3, 2015 by -Garmonbozia

[TACeMossie]

Let's be honest here, if your guild member came in 3rd in damage in an 8 player match, even if all 8 players were dps that's the equivalent of getting a 62.5% or a D on a test (barely passing). That's not doing great. Also, bear in mind it's pretty unlikely it was an 8 man dps only team. But the real point is, if you'd been playing against a good team of geared pvpers, you would have left that match in a different frame of mind because 198s do not keep up with full min/maxed DR gear.

 

But while we're at it, out of curiosity, what was the dps and overall damage on that pve sniper in 3rd place?

 

I didn't check the DPS, but he had 800k damage, whereas I had 1.1k and the other guildy was at 1.4k. We had 2 other DDs on the team, 3 healers and a tank.

 

It was a full length voidstar match, if that helps

[Maegi]

I didn't check the DPS, but he had 800k damage, whereas I had 1.1k and the other guildy was at 1.4k. We had 2 other DDs on the team, 3 healers and a tank.

 

It was a full length voidstar match, if that helps

 

1.1k.... wait you had 1100 damage or 1100 dps?

 

TL;DR huh?

[bluesoldier]

Wit how much easier it will be for people to buy PvP gear with the upcoming changes why would would they need to give recruit gear? Play 3 WZ buy you base gear quit ************. Pretty simple. I am one of those 2% that have min/maxed dark reaver it's going to be so much easier now.

 

Tl;dr no, just buy it

[Zoom_VI]

Bolster IS basically recruit gear, the big difference being that no matter how ignorant a players is they cannot escape getting bolstered.

[foxmob]

no matter how ignorant a players is they cannot escape getting bolstered.

 

not even remotely true. it's incredibly easy to go into a WZ with 170+ pve gear and get no appreciable expertise. incredibly easy to not wear the right gear. you either already know, know somebody who knows, or you're reading the forums, at which point you'd be in the minority that "already know." entering WZs atm with pve gear is very gimmicky.

[TACeMossie]

1.1k.... wait you had 1100 damage or 1100 dps?

 

TL;DR huh?

 

dammit i meant 1.1 mill/1.4 mill