Overpowered healings killing pvp

[leonlotus]

Lets be clear:

 

On WZs, 90% of the Healers dont die with 2 DPS free on their backs, for a period that would be sufficient to kill 2 other guys on same circunstances (including being guarded). For a class that is not a Tank in full defense with low DPS, and have capacity to heal entire parties quickly, this is too much. There is a balance problem.

 

Open World PvP, its not even worth talking about.

 

Resuming:

 

If healing skills dont get nerfed, the game will not live as much as it could. PvE content cannot be extended forever in SWTOR, for various reasons. And PvPers are highly descontent with the PvE oriented system.

 

What i dont get, is that SWTOR had a model system before. Perfectly equilibrated once. And made the various kinds of players happy for long period.

Edited May 20, 2015 by leonlotus

[Icykill_]

Lets be clear:

 

On WZs, 90% of the Healers dont die with 2 DPS free on their backs, for a period that would be sufficient to kill 2 other guys on same circunstances (including being guarded). For a class that is not a Tank in full defense with low DPS, and have capacity to heal entire parties quickly, this is too much. There is a balance problem.

 

Open World PvP, its not even worth talking about.

 

Resuming:

 

If healing skills dont get nerfed, the game will not live as much as it could. PvE content cannot be extended forever in SWTOR, for various reasons. And PvPers are highly descontent with the PvE oriented system.

 

What i dont get, is that SWTOR had a model system before. Perfectly equilibrated once. And made the various kinds of players happy for long period.

 

LoL... If 2 DPS can't kill one healer, you're not putting out enough damage... Sorry to say it, but that's a skill issue... The healer is higher skilled than the DPS

 

Sure lots of matches in regs have premade healer teams... Especially pubs who like to run with 2-3 healers... They are nearly impossible to kill if they know how to heal... The game becomes a stale mate... But that's not the same as saying healers in the game are OP

[Zoom_VI]

2 DPS can easily bring down a healer. Heck half of the DPS specs can solo a healer.

 

Skilled Tank + healer is another story.

[Icykill_]

2 DPS can easily bring down a healer. Heck half of the DPS specs can solo a healer.

 

Skilled Tank + healer is another story.

 

^^^... So true

[NikSunrider]

I can facetank 3 crappy DPS.

 

A good DPS can either faceroll me or at least keep me died down long enouhg to not help my team.

 

Healers are where they should be.

 

/endthread.

[leonlotus]

LoL... If 2 DPS can't kill one healer, you're not putting out enough damage... Sorry to say it, but that's a skill issue... The healer is higher skilled than the DPS

 

Sure lots of matches in regs have premade healer teams... Especially pubs who like to run with 2-3 healers... They are nearly impossible to kill if they know how to heal... The game becomes a stale mate... But that's not the same as

saying healers in the game are OP

 

The difference may not appear too great in a duel, 1x1 with neutral circusntances, if you have skill. You can still win, of course. But that doesnt mean it is not there.

 

Not me who said that. You said:

"They are nearly impossible to kill if they know how to heal".

 

What does happen when they are put togetter? Magic? Their healings are not overpowered, but they are immortal in 2-3 against any configuration of enemy team, that do not have 2-3 healers too..

Their multipliers are not greater than any other classes (and specs), but they cannot be killed by parties that does not have them? That logic does not work for me, sorry to say.

 

I am not saying everything a Healer do is Op in its numbers. Thats why we can duel and win. And thats why i am telling some healing abilites (not healers) must be nerfed. The game is now PvE oriented, and changes are killing fair PvP.

 

Before 3.1, every formation of mixed party, had posibility to win against any other team. Premades were not impossible to be break, no matter if they had 1-2-3 or even 4 healers, like some guilds liked to try. That time, the game was still balanced.

Edited May 21, 2015 by leonlotus

[muhidin]

Half the time you don't even need to kill the healer , just keep up enough pressure on them so they spend all their time kiting and healing themselves too much to be of any use to their own team.

[qwopicus]

Sorc healers*

 

If you can't solo a merc/mando or an operative (or force them to stealth out at least), they're probably getting cross heals. Sorcs, as always, are EZ mode.

[Icykill_]

The difference may not appear too great in a duel, 1x1 with neutral circusntances, if you have skill. You can still win, of course. But that doesnt mean it is not there.

 

Not me who said that. You said:

"They are nearly impossible to kill if they know how to heal".

 

What does happen when they are put togetter? Magic? Their healings are not overpowered, but they are immortal in 2-3 against any configuration of enemy team, that do not have 2-3 healers too..

Their multipliers are not greater than any other classes (and specs), but they cannot be killed by parties that does not have them? That logic does not work for me, sorry to say.

 

I am not saying everything a Healer do is Op in its numbers. Thats why we can duel and win. And thats why i am telling some healing abilites (not healers) must be nerfed. The game is now PvE oriented, and changes are killing fair PvP.

 

Before 3.1, every formation of mixed party, had posibility to win against any other team. Premades were not impossible to be break, no matter if they had 1-2-3 or even 4 healers, like some guilds liked to try. That time, the game was still balanced.

 

If you read what I said... "It was they are nearly impossible to kill... if there are 2-3 healers"

 

If you can't kill 1 healer on a 2 DPS combination, there is something wrong with your dps or you aren't geared with 2018 expertise or both

[zhaiyan]

Lets be clear:

On WZs, 90% of the Healers dont die with 2 DPS free on their backs

please tell me where does the number 90% come from. I could say in my wz 90% healer die in a few sec with two dps focus as well

 

For a class that is not a Tank in full defense with low DPS, and have capacity to heal entire parties quickly, this is too much. There is a balance problem.

so... Your logic is healer can heal entire group quickly, but can not heal himself quickly? Or the game just breaks?

 

Resuming:

 

If healing skills dont get nerfed, the game will not live as much as it could. PvE content cannot be extended forever in SWTOR, for various reasons. And PvPers are highly descontent with the PvE oriented system.

Please, tell me how nerf healing can get PVE content extended. U are talking about two dps can not kill one healer before in PVP, but how does PVE jump in like a boss? And why PvPers are highly "discontent" with the PVE oriented system?

 

What i dont get, is that SWTOR had a model system before. Perfectly equilibrated once. And made the various kinds of players happy for long period.

What I dont get is how do you define the word "perfect". Let me give you some choices:

1st Undying old annihilation marauder

2nd Uninterruptible Operative healers standing in cover

3rd... eh, damn, whats the third? EPA?

 

And whatever perfect FoTMs there have been, I think operative healers are harder to kill in 2.x time, when most dots can be cleansed... Oh wait there are less than 90% healers that roll operative, no wonder why.

 

Open World PvP, its not even worth talking about.

Talk about it please, that will make 90% of my day.

Edited May 21, 2015 by zhaiyan

[Carterchambers]

The problem is 90% of the DPS (sorry couldn't help but use that percentage) do not make use of the trauma effect, tanks either do not know they exist on some of their attacks, or the slingers/sents do not want to gimp their "DPS" to throw out an extra utility.

 

Trauma is an amazing heal pressure ability, simply amazing, but people need to keep it at a decent uptime for it to be useful.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

The problem is not overpowered healing.

 

The problem is the amount of whining, PVE and conquest DPS scrubs trolling warzones, including ranked, who have no concept how to play their class, gear their toon, or follow simple objective based instructions.

[JouerTue]

90% of dps being bads is killing pvp

[Lalainnia]

Guard + 2 decent healers

[JouerTue]

Guard + 2 decent healers

 

i'll see and raise with guard swapping and 2 decent healers, which brings into play 3 competent players..a combo 3 competent dps can shut down or at least prevent objective plays.

[Sharkii_boy]

Mando and Scoundrels have balanced healing in PvP. Sorcs and sages are another story entirely, thanks to their mobility and large toolkit at their disposal they can manage 2 dps to some extent but will go down eventually too, unless theyre getting peels.

 

Honestly most games on harb where I play the games are not lost/won entirely thanks to healers as some want to make it seem. Imps are very good at focusing our healers and many times nullifying them from what I've experienced. There's the odd sorc who will have a crazy HPS at the end of the warzone but majority of times its because they have superior dps on their team who pave the way for them or enemies not focusing healer when they should.

 

The only fix I see for this is for dps to improve their game and maybe rework sorcs and sages a tiny bit. Make them manage force once again and I swear more than half of them won't be performing as well anymore.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Sharkii_boy

[Master-Nala]

Sorc healers*

 

If you can't solo a merc/mando or an operative (or force them to stealth out at least), they're probably getting cross heals. Sorcs, as always, are EZ mode.

 

Would you indulge me here with a question? What specifically makes you think Sorcerers are easier than the other two healers? And please, be very specific. Please list the Sorc rotation that's so much easier than the Operative or Merc rotation. And additionally what realistic combination of utilities (no complaining about three heroic utilities at once) and such brings you to this conclusion.

 

Obviously, this question is open to all.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Lalainnia]

i'll see and raise with guard swapping and 2 decent healers, which brings into play 3 competent players..a combo 3 competent dps can shut down or at least prevent objective plays.

 

Far easier as the tank+2 healers and 3 competent dps trauma+ separating them from guard cc proper burst between cross healing etc all those nice things are actually very difficult to pull off vs guard and 2 decent healers popping their own cds.

 

Actual healing as in the application of healing and managing it is a lot easier since 3.0 no resource issues between the 3 acs especially sorcs in warzones.

 

3 dps vs 3 healers around the same skill level are fine even its when you throw guard into the mix that problems start showing up. This isn't that big of a deal in arena because it's common for either 4dps vs 4dps or healer/tank and 2 dps not to mention there are no objectives and you have acid.

 

Pretty much Guard+2 decent healers is much easier to play then the 3 dps trying to kill them, not impossible but far easier for the Guard+ healers.

[Lalainnia]

Would you indulge me here with a question? What specifically makes you think Sorcerers are easier than the other two healers? And please, be very specific. Please list the Sorc rotation that's so much easier than the Operative or Merc rotation. And additionally what realistic combination of utilities (no complaining about three heroic utilities at once) and such brings you to this conclusion.

 

Obviously, this question is open to all.

 

Resource management, sorcs are lil endless energy bunnies in war zones eventually operatives and mercs specially if solo healing will into resource issues against a team with great dps which is suppose to happen.

 

There is no real rotation for sorcs in pvp other than trying to make sure you have the force bending buff up before applying a heal. Same can be said for mercs and operatives in terms of rotation they do however have more to pay attention to for mercs it's simply heat and when to use kolto shot to not go over a certain threshold and overheat specially if vent is on cd. Operatives have hots to watch and will actually run into energy issues these days if they have to hard cast to much.

 

Sorcs Barrier talent in the heroic tree think its called corrupted barrier. Gives back 2% hp while each barrier is active. Then 8% for the charges and another 8% while enduring bastion is up. Every other sorc utility that most take are fine and needed for the spec and class to stay alive.

 

Sorc healers are easier to play in a pvp environment doesn't mean they're the strongest though.

[DomiSotto]

Folks, no. All 3 roles need to be in the zones for them to be fun and interesting. Nerfing any role into oblivion is a bad idea. Look, we finally have healers in the zones, and not just one AC. That's a Good Thing! If we can get tanking the new lease on life, the DPS will have far easier time surviving and there will be no need to overload them with OP DCDs or unreasonable damage capabilities.

 

To take the Corrupted Barrier you have to forgo either Reduction to DMG while stunned without which a Sorcerer/Sage is toast against the chain-stunning classes OR his/her ability to cast one long channel on the move. In PvP I think Sage/Sorcs do not take Corrupted. Sage/Sorcerer also have troubles keeping up with scattered damage, since absolutely nobody in the WZs likes standing in tight clusters hurting just a little bit.

 

Sage/Sorcerer resources are not limitless. As soon as the fight becomes prolonged, which, with 2+ healers in each team, which is becoming a new norm on the Binger, resource management has to be watched carefully.

 

Sage/Sorcerer is a toy for guys like snipers, since we normally are too far away to interrupt their channel that can crit us out of existence. And don't get me started on the Electro-net. Or on the amount of fiery burning passion a Sage/Sorc gets from a well coordinate DPS cell.

 

I am not saying that it is not a great class but it is not a ticket to immortality, particulary with the prevalence of the bursty DPSs.

 

I am planning to play all the healers in the zones and out of them, it is my favorite role, and I expect to love and not love something about each of them. To be honest, as a Sage/Sorc player I look enviously to the Scops.

[Brunner_Venda]

Anyone who hasn't noticed that the tank+healer combo is a 1+1=3 (sometimes 4) situation really isn't paying attention.

 

A guarded healer is going to take half damage, which he can easily out heal.

A tank guarding the healer is going to taunt the attackers, so the healer takes even less.

A tank is going to use defensive cooldowns that protect the healer, like riot gas, slows, and the reflect on sonic missile.

 

Personally I think the problem is guarding (50% damage) is a little too good in PVP on healers, and healing sages don't face a single resource management issue. But those are design flaws that aren't easily fixed.

[anwg]

Anyone who hasn't noticed that the tank+healer combo is a 1+1=3 (sometimes 4) situation really isn't paying attention.

 

etc

 

That's only if you stupidly attack whoever the tank is guarding.

[leonlotus]

If you read what I said... "It was they are nearly impossible to kill... if there are 2-3 healers"

 

If you can't kill 1 healer on a 2 DPS combination, there is something wrong with your dps or you aren't geared with 2018 expertise or both

 

"for a period that would be sufficient to kill 2 other guys"

I never said they wont die. I said that it takes time enough to kill 2 of other classes. And i think this is too much, for any non-tank class.

 

And again: If any team gets 2-3 of the same class, and that thing is specifically making the group too much harder to break with mixed classes, or the 2-3 alone are becoming "nearly impossible to kill", there is a balance problem.

[leonlotus]

The problem is not overpowered healing.

 

The problem is the amount of whining, PVE and conquest DPS scrubs trolling warzones, including ranked, who have no concept how to play their class, gear their toon, or follow simple objective based instructions.

 

I am top geared, and i am very experienced in PvP. Wzs and Open.

Aside from that, the problems you listed were always part of SWTOR. Normal things, that happened in wzs all the time in the years i play this game. While what i am bringing, is a new problem, born in the latest patches.

Edited May 22, 2015 by leonlotus

[leonlotus]

Anyone who hasn't noticed that the tank+healer combo is a 1+1=3 (sometimes 4) situation really isn't paying attention.

 

A guarded healer is going to take half damage, which he can easily out heal.

A tank guarding the healer is going to taunt the attackers, so the healer takes even less.

A tank is going to use defensive cooldowns that protect the healer, like riot gas, slows, and the reflect on sonic missile.

 

Personally I think the problem is guarding (50% damage) is a little too good in PVP on healers, and healing sages don't face a single resource management issue. But those are design flaws that aren't easily fixed.

 

You are quite right about the trouble of ignoring guarding. It is a though ability, yes, but i am not talking about it. I do too much PvP to get confused about some basics.

 

If we all pay attention to the latest patchs, we can see that they are constantly giving healing abilities better multipliers. AND, they are nerfing some DPS abilities, for Sages/Sorcs too. Another part of the same problem.