Sniper/GS Solo vs. Group Performance

[Zoom_VI]

Why should it have to be us in the first place? Just give all classes a certain immunity oh **** button. Then people will be focused for different reasons, depending on gear, role, or skill level.

 

No that is not how player's thinking process works. No matter how many focus breaks you hand out, the playerbase will always come up with some (arbitrary) way to say X class is easiest to kill and will then proceed to focus X class first 100% of the time.

 

PS mercs get focused first over snipers.

[ace_boogie]

That doesn't explain why Engineering and Virulence are garbage in all areas of pvp. They are barely fuctional in regs, let alone ranked.

 

 

 

 

Eng is clunky as hell but virulence works just fine in regs. You don't get the same satisfaction of a huge crit like MM, but you can still do pretty numbers and kills.

Edited June 7, 2015 by ace_boogie

[foxmob]

Eng is clunky as hell but virulence works just fine in regs. You don't get the same satisfaction of a huge crit like MM, but you can still do pretty numbers and kills.

 

those kills are kind of deceiving though. I mean...it's like racking up 30 kills for a healer who healed two ppl, but those two people were wrecking face. lol

[TheJollyRogers]

No that is not how player's thinking process works. No matter how many focus breaks you hand out, the playerbase will always come up with some (arbitrary) way to say X class is easiest to kill and will then proceed to focus X class first 100% of the time.

 

PS mercs get focused first over snipers.

 

I don't particularly think it is arbitrary. People pick targets based on the class' ability to recover from taking a burst combo. You would focus a sniper or mercenary because they don't take a health deficit very well. On the other hand, it's harder to focus an operative or assassin because they can completely avoid damage, return health or drop focus.

 

There will always be preferred targets, but at the moment - Snipers/GS being that without a way to recover is severely wrecking their ability to stand in solo.

[AlrikFassbauer]

On the other hand, it's harder to focus an operative or assassin because they can completely avoid damage, return health or drop focus.

 

Which is one reason why I find them overpowered, personally.

 

Both classes don't even suffer any drawback from being able to H2F, stealth etc. - they are even able to do more damage on top of that (especially in duelling situations).

Edited June 7, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[ace_boogie]

those kills are kind of deceiving though. I mean...it's like racking up 30 kills for a healer who healed two ppl, but those two people were wrecking face. lol

 

 

By kills I meant killing blows... But whatever. I know how this forum feels about "fluff" damage lol

[kvandertulip]

Eng is clunky as hell but virulence works just fine in regs. You don't get the same satisfaction of a huge crit like MM, but you can still do pretty numbers and kills.

 

In an average match it does fine, but if there are good healers/tanks on the other team there is very little you can do to put pressure on them.

[kvandertulip]

By kills I meant killing blows... But whatever. I know how this forum feels about "fluff" damage lol

 

You used to be able to put actual pressure on the other team in 2.0 with your dots. 3.0 nerfed them pretty hard and buffed aoe heals to the point that you really are just doing fluff damage instead of putting pressure on the healer. In addition the loss of Explosive Probe took the sting out of single target dps.

[ace_boogie]

You used to be able to put actual pressure on the other team in 2.0 with your dots. 3.0 nerfed them pretty hard and buffed aoe heals to the point that you really are just doing fluff damage instead of putting pressure on the healer. In addition the loss of Explosive Probe took the sting out of single target dps.

 

For sure, losing that EP hurt more than the nerf to dots, since we don't have to tab dot anymore. I miss it on my op too

[Quarast]

If snipers gain more defensives, we'll have to give up some of that insane mm burst imo. It was ok to knock someone back to last week when survivability was an issue, but any buffs to that region have to be addressed with that burst in mind.

[Whaitwhutwalrus]

There are many ways to approach this problem without unbalancing the sniper in regs/group ranked

 

A). if the revert engineering's old rotation (less clunky) and made emp-discharge reset cool downs (like it used to). This would make a solo ranked viable spec for snipers w/o making the other two sniper specs go out of hand or make the class "over powered".

 

B). They could change solo ranks matchmaking system to require trinity comps (tanks + heals + deeps). Ultimately this would slow down que-pops if they don't implement cross-server queing (which they already stated they won't)

 

To be honest there are players that can still make the class shine and compete with the best of them in ranked (Most that do "well" in ranked with a sniper are only doing "average" [compared to the rest of the classes] when it's all said and done).

 

I'm aware that there is no such thing as a perfectly "balanced" game however a certain class should never be a liability to the team rather than an asset. (which seems how it is for most snipers and mercs [with no anti-focus ability to speak of[ )

 

As it stands the skill floor on a sniper for yolos is still up there with mercs and maras.

[Gyronamics]

One of the most horrid issues is that to refresh ballistic dampers without blowing your roll you have to come out of cover and drop back into cover ..if you even think to try and do this in a reg war zone you have a Mara and 2 Jugs immediately leap on you even though you were out of cover for only 0.5 sec ....

 

Its like they just sit with their target on a sniper whilst they wait and wait and wait for that chance to leap you.

 

Change dampers so they refresh passively with rotation or get rid of the charges and let dampers be active as long as you are in cover.

 

Seriously ***.

 

You sound as if there's this ivory tower you sit in free from getting grubby with melee. OH MY GOD ONE OF THEM TOUCHED ME.

 

The only class in the game which has the ability to sit around with immunity to gap closing while pissing on other classes but letting them get the chance to close the gap with their mechanics results in mental trauma?

Edited June 22, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Vember]

Seriously ***.

 

You sound as if there's this ivory tower you sit in free from getting grubby with melee. OH MY GOD ONE OF THEM TOUCHED ME.

 

The only class in the game which has the ability to sit around with immunity to gap closing while pissing on other classes but letting them get the chance to close the gap with their mechanics results in mental trauma?

 

Snipers are free kills for melee these days. You should try it.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Seriously ***.

 

You sound as if there's this ivory tower you sit in free from getting grubby with melee. OH MY GOD ONE OF THEM TOUCHED ME.

 

The only class in the game which has the ability to sit around with immunity to gap closing while pissing on other classes but letting them get the chance to close the gap with their mechanics results in mental trauma?

 

You sound as if you've never played a Gunslinger.

 

Speaking of an "immunity to gap closing" - there is stealth doing the exact same, by the way : Preventing gap closing ...

[Anishor]

I would be fine with Snipers being able to start in stealth so long as ambush cannot be used from stealth ( or starting to cast it immediately breaks it.) because if they could get off a 15-16k hit from stealth would be OP.

[Gyronamics]

Speaking of an "immunity to gap closing" - there is stealth doing the exact same, by the way : Preventing gap closing ...

 

You can't be in stealth and be pissing on someone

 

Snipers can be in cover, a totally free passive ability and piss on melee who rely on leaps to gapclose.

 

Thus the apparent injustice that exiting cover for a fraction of a second to reset dampers gives leapers an opportunity to finally gapclose can only be met with cynicism.

[Technohic]

Probably could help snipers, mercs and marauders and really any non stealth squishy class by making it to where you can't target them before the match starts. In fact; i would shorten the range you can have someone targeted to 40m (just at max range) so these classes can at least come out and maybe try to position where enemies will have to deal with the more durable and in your face classes first if you position right.

 

When you can target the merc or sniper from the gates, you pretty much know where they are going to be and track them all the way across the map, unless a scoundrel group stealths, but that is so flaky and still yet another class to rely on besides a healer and a tank; although someone could be 2 of those.

 

EDIT: I would even go so far as to remove showing the enemy names and who is who and just show what roles and classes are there on the scoreboard just for planning strategy purposes, but leave it to the team to have to figure out who's who and reset target markers at the end of the round.

 

Just getting rid of the ability to just "Focus that guy first" I think would go a long way into including the classes that have no escape. You can still plan which class you want to target, but leave it to actualy skill to find and mark the guy rather than mark them from death without any counter. Not the end all be all for anything, but I think it would be a start.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Technohic

[AlrikFassbauer]

You can't be in stealth and be pissing on someone

 

You didn't read what I wrote :

 

"Gap closing" means something that closes the gap between the attacker and the victim.

In other words : It is an ability which shortens the distance between the attacker and the victim in an very, very, very, very short time span.

Examples : Force Jump, pull of Vanguards & Powertechs.

 

Stealth hinders this. You can't do Force Jump or the pull to / with someone who is stealthed.

 

And this is what I wrote.

Edited June 24, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Gyronamics]

And this is what I wrote.

 

So don't quote me if you are later going to say that half of your post was unrelated to what I was saying.

 

Which was.... snipers being able to piss on players who are melee and have their ability to close distance disabled by the free passives of a sniper in cover.

 

And me mocking the idea that it was a terrible thing that refreshing dampers allowed leapers a fraction of a second to close the gap.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Gyronamics

[belialle]

How do you buff their solo viability without making them completely overpowered in group play?

[Gyronamics]

How do you buff their solo viability without making them completely overpowered in group play?

 

By destroying the turret design with immunities all over it.

 

Then with other classes able to interact with it more it can be buffed up to be more independent.

[CaptMurphy]

Probably could help snipers, mercs and marauders and really any non stealth squishy class by making it to where you can't target them before the match starts. In fact; i would shorten the range you can have someone targeted to 40m (just at max range) so these classes can at least come out and maybe try to position where enemies will have to deal with the more durable and in your face classes first if you position right.

 

When you can target the merc or sniper from the gates, you pretty much know where they are going to be and track them all the way across the map, unless a scoundrel group stealths, but that is so flaky and still yet another class to rely on besides a healer and a tank; although someone could be 2 of those.

 

EDIT: I would even go so far as to remove showing the enemy names and who is who and just show what roles and classes are there on the scoreboard just for planning strategy purposes, but leave it to the team to have to figure out who's who and reset target markers at the end of the round.

 

Just getting rid of the ability to just "Focus that guy first" I think would go a long way into including the classes that have no escape. You can still plan which class you want to target, but leave it to actualy skill to find and mark the guy rather than mark them from death without any counter. Not the end all be all for anything, but I think it would be a start.

 

This, but just have the roll and not class on the scoreboard. Marking an opponent BEFORE they're in visual range has always been a pretty cheesy mechanic.

[foxmob]

I would even go so far as to remove showing the enemy names and who is who and just show what roles and classes are there on the scoreboard just for planning strategy purposes, but leave it to the team to have to figure out who's who and reset target markers at the end of the round.

 

I remember complaining about this when arenas launched. it wasn't really whining just surprise. like...wow! why are they telling you who your enemy is and their role and comp? in 8s you had to fish them out. what makes 4s so special? but it is what it is.

 

being able to mark from spawn in all but one arena is awkward. and not being able to mark stealth is yet another wonderful advantage for stealth in pvp. little things? yeah. I guess. doesn't make'em right, imo.

[Technohic]

I remember complaining about this when arenas launched. it wasn't really whining just surprise. like...wow! why are they telling you who your enemy is and their role and comp? in 8s you had to fish them out. what makes 4s so special? but it is what it is.

 

being able to mark from spawn in all but one arena is awkward. and not being able to mark stealth is yet another wonderful advantage for stealth in pvp. little things? yeah. I guess. doesn't make'em right, imo.

 

I remember. I think the counter argument was something about being able to strategize and I may have said some of it myself; but when the strategy is "tunnel down the easiest to focus class" then mark them we need a change here.

[VdFExarKun]

I remember. I think the counter argument was something about being able to strategize and I may have said some of it myself; but when the strategy is "tunnel down the easiest to focus class" then mark them we need a change here.

 

I highly doubt that this would ever change.

 

Their entire system is flawed.