WorldSmasher Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Please, for the love of God, stop the ellipses. Heh... Heh.... Heh... Heh... Heh... Feel the power of my elipses....! Heh.... Heh... Heh.... They come in pretty colors, too.... Heh... Heh... Heh... Edited May 16, 2015 by WorldSmasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandherio Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Im also not a fan of SWTOR's underlying Engine but i think BW squeezed as much as possible out of it.its not smooth like other engines (WOW for example) but its playable to some degree (OP,PVP = some problems,PVE solo contenct & FP's run fine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtJeremy Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I heard they fiddled with the original Hero Engine to the point where it is the Hero Engine in mostly name. As much as I love this game the choice of Engine will eventually be this games undoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Not to mention, as I stated in another post right above yours, EA doesn't have a history of reinvestment commitment in MMOs, and that was even before the traditional MMO market was in a decline like it currently is. They shut down Earth & Beyond after only 2 years, and Warhammer Online after 5 years. Never mind that twice now EA has had to apologize and make excuses to investors for two of their high profile MMOs failing to make good on the projections they gave to those investors: Warhammer Online, and SWTOR. I just cannot see a realistic scenario where investors would not be in arms if EA suddenly decided to invest in SWTOR for a major engine overhaul at this stage. Sorry, but I've seen the reports as well, and SWTOR has not been that successful since the Cash Shop started. They've already done it to two of their three MMOs. A few things. 1. One could actually make the argument it is more successful since cash shop. When SWTOR launched the CEO said they would consider the game a success if they stabilized at 500k sub's. That would be just shy of 90 million a year. They made 165 million total in 2013 and over 100 million before SoR launched last year. So at least according to their publically announced definition the game is a success. Second, when a game is part of a licensing agreement like EA has with the SW's franchise you have additional pressures to keep games going. Tbh I think this is why EA has canceled a number of projects that were "their" IP vs SWTOR (not talking MMOs here but games in general). It can be cheaper to cancel your own games in development or that are not doing as well as expected and put that money into the licensed IPs. Rarely do you just pay X up front and the pocket the profits. Usually it is pay X upfront and Y yearly. If a product is having issues and you cancel/close it you can even sometimes have penalties to pay. Licensing agreements can be complicated as heck. Last I don't think we can say at this time whether or not the MMO market is in decline. A lot of the articles on this topic tend to miss that there is an alternative reason for what we see in the MMO market is that it is so freaking saturated right now. It used to be you would go a year, even 2 before another MMO. The last few years we have had one sometimes 2 new MMO releases per year and Warhammer is the only one that I can think of (during this trend) that has been closed down. As such it is almost impossible, imo, to tell what is actually going on with MMO popularity because the population is a lot more spread out and most of the companies refuse to say exactly how many subscriber/active accounts they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 One does not simply change the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 One does not simply change the engine. E.V.E. Online, did a complete revamp of its game engine a few years ago... That was made and was very sucessfull in bringing visuals up to par with the rest of the game. This is just a matter of wanting... not if can be done... IT CAN BE DONE trust me... Best Regards, LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 OP sorry but you obviously have no clue about software coding and whatnot. and the engine, as said several times, is barely recognizable as the HERO engine with all the tweaks and modding BioWare had to do to the unfinished one they purchased. despite your ignorance of how coding works, no they can't just go slap in an updated HERO engine and re-compile the code from the changes. Do you have any clue (obviously not) how many bugs and crap there'd be? it'd be so broken it wouldn't be funny...they'd spend less time/energy/money rebuilding the engine from scratch than doing what you suggest. Seriously, just stop. You have no clue what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 One does not simply change the engine. And this is true. The only two games that I know ever updated their engine regularly over time. WoW....it was a COLOSSAL PITA for them to do and they could only pull this off because they have a number of employees whose only job is to do engine work. You can afford this when you make over 800 million a year. UO... There the games functions are, to be polite, far more primitive. As such doing engine changes are a lot more some. Beyond d those two, every other MMO I know of keeps the same engine. It gets modified changed with the sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 E.V.E. Online, did a complete revamp of its game engine a few years ago... That was made and was very sucessfull in bringing visuals up to par with the rest of the game. This is just a matter of wanting... not if can be done... IT CAN BE DONE trust me... Best Regards, LPC well for one this isn't EVE Online. Not even the same company. Two you're obviously not listening to anyone...sign of a good troll. I don't think ANYONE has said it "CAN'T" be done...we're saying upgrading the engine probably "WON'T" be done...and even if it ever is it's not as easy as you're claiming it would be. Again you're not fooling anyone into thinking you have a clue about coding or how games/engines work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 OP sorry but you obviously have no clue about software coding and whatnot. and the engine, as said several times, is barely recognizable as the HERO engine with all the tweaks and modding BioWare had to do to the unfinished one they purchased. despite your ignorance of how coding works, no they can't just go slap in an updated HERO engine and re-compile the code from the changes. Do you have any clue (obviously not) how many bugs and crap there'd be? it'd be so broken it wouldn't be funny...they'd spend less time/energy/money rebuilding the engine from scratch than doing what you suggest. Seriously, just stop. You have no clue what you're talking about. Hello... Why you are so sure that i don´t know how coding works? This is done inside the development dept. and start allways in building a prototype build. Then we try to merge the databases and the assets and verify what works, and what don´t. bug hunting will start after this... One can build a prototype very quickly if we get some resources... So before bashing me a troll or something... try to understand that more then being reworked, this will not happen if EA/Bioware don´t want... Is not a technicall impossibility... With my best regards, LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 well for one this isn't EVE Online. Not even the same company. Two you're obviously not listening to anyone...sign of a good troll. I don't think ANYONE has said it "CAN'T" be done...we're saying upgrading the engine probably "WON'T" be done...and even if it ever is it's not as easy as you're claiming it would be. Again you're not fooling anyone into thinking you have a clue about coding or how games/engines work. Hello... I know that EVE is not from this company... The EVE Online was made as an exemple of a company commitment to the costumers. The revamp was made, OFC months of preparation was allready underway to do the "transparent" migration. Best Regards, LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) E.V.E. Online, did a complete revamp of its game engine a few years ago... That was made and was very sucessfull in bringing visuals up to par with the rest of the game. This is just a matter of wanting... not if can be done... IT CAN BE DONE trust me... Best Regards, LPC Ummm source? Last I checked in 2007 they updated the GRAPHICS Engine. This is very different than changing the game engine (which is the issue here.). So apples and oranges comparison? BTW anything can be done. The question that you are not asking is "can it be done practically" with a benefit to not the player and the company (because if it is not a benefit to both it will not be done) and thus far you have shown you are either ignoring this issue OR don't actually understand the complexity. I am currently thinking that later because of your EVE online argument and not understanding the difference between updating a game engine vs a graphics engine. Also, just so you know...the actual game engine for Eve is pretty simple...far more simple than even WoW's older engine. This was done as a matter of necessity due to the number of ships that may be involved in a battle. So I suppose, if there was an incentive to change the game engine they could do it and do so far more easily. The thing is its simplicity means there is little reason to mess with it. The issue was with their graphics engine. I explain that issue above. Edited May 16, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Ummm source? Last I checked in 2007 they updated the GRAPHICS Engine. This is very different than changing the game engine (which is the issue here.). So apples and oranges comparison? BTW anything can be done. The question that you are not asking is "can it be done practically" with a benefit to not the player and the company (because if it is not a benefit to both it will not be done) and thus far you have shown you are either ignoring this issue OR don't actually understand the complexity. I am currently thinking that later because of your EVE online argument and not understanding the difference between updating a game engine vs a graphics engine. Also, just so you know...the actual game engine for Eve is pretty simple...far more simple than even WoW's older engine. This was done as a matter of necessity due to the number of ships that may be involved in a battle. So I suppose, if there was an incentive to change the game engine they could do it and do so far more easily. The thing is its simplicity means there is little reason to mess with it. The issue was with their graphics engine. I explain that issue above. Hello, Sorry for my misinterpertation... You are correct, the game engine was updated. But was revamped very heavly. What i have being saying is that the actual engine is a dead end... The engine was heavly modified in the early development, to the point that now nobody can do nothing to improve the limitations of the core base. Even HeroEngine Dev´s can´t help on the engine because of so many modifications. The solution is to pass the assets to a more friendly engine... or not... and keep the problems going until they pull the plug on the game itself. I don´t believe that will happen because... This is no ordinary IP. License agreements Potencial revenews with the expanding universe EA/Bioware is being pressed to keep the game going... But the issue here is they only can push this modded engine so far... and its getting older and older with no tangible upgrades to fix the performance problems, fidelity problems, stability problems... So this is not just a matter of if... but when... Best Regards, LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 So this is not just a matter of if... but when... Best Regards, LPC I'll believe it when I see it and not when someone who doesnt really know what they are talking about says its going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 I'll believe it when I see it and not when someone who doesnt really know what they are talking about says its going to happen. Like i said in earlier interventions... If the costumers don´t complain... they will no do it from the bottom of their hearts... I see many ppl here complaining about my posts, but i don´t see ppl uniting for the "fixes" on the game engine... The problems are real and still unfixable, because they don´t wont... Its more easy to add crappy elements to milk in the Cartel Store, then fixe the underlying problem of the game... Best Regards, LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Like i said in earlier interventions... If the costumers don´t complain... they will no do it from the bottom of their hearts... I see many ppl here complaining about my posts, but i don´t see ppl uniting for the "fixes" on the game engine... The problems are real and still unfixable, because they don´t wont... Its more easy to add crappy elements to milk in the Cartel Store, then fixe the underlying problem of the game... Best Regards, LPC Maybe because unlike you, we dont live in some fantasy world and we actually recognize that to do what you want, it would be next to impossible to do and cost way more money than you seem to believe? I would love to live in your world of rainbows and lollipops where anything is possible and doesnt cost time or money, but I live in the real world and I can see and understand what is feasible and what is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nafu Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Maybe because unlike you, we dont live in some fantasy world and we actually recognize that to do what you want, it would be next to impossible to do and cost way more money than you seem to believe? I would love to live in your world of rainbows and lollipops where anything is possible and doesnt cost time or money, but I live in the real world and I can see and understand what is feasible and what is not. Agreed. I also don't know what OP tries to achieve here even after the situation is explained to him several times. Let's unite and then what? Try to create a superb Star Wars game with no money, no resources? Go on a strike maybe? So BioWare gives up on the game sooner than they will? What exactly? You said in your first post that key word is time and money and we have none of them as mere players. So what can you do? If company can't do a better thing, you are stuck with the current one, period! Get over with it and enjoy the game while it lasts dude... I would love to live in your fantasy world too though Rainbows and lollipops would be great Also some Ewoks running happily on meadows, hutts sunbathing near a shallow marsh, some AT-ATs eating leaves from the top of trees Edited May 16, 2015 by nafu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 hutts sunbathing near a shallow marsh, You just ruined Imagination Land dude.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nafu Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 You just ruined Imagination Land dude.. Yeah, it may be a little bit of overkill on second thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Maybe because unlike you, we dont live in some fantasy world and we actually recognize that to do what you want, it would be next to impossible to do and cost way more money than you seem to believe? I would love to live in your world of rainbows and lollipops where anything is possible and doesnt cost time or money, but I live in the real world and I can see and understand what is feasible and what is not. Don't forget unicorns... Come on everyone, you're feeding the troll, stop it! Well, either a troll, or a 13 year old sitting at home trying to sound all grown up, that happens too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hello, Sorry for my misinterpertation... You are correct, the game engine was updated. But was revamped very heavly. What i have being saying is that the actual engine is a dead end... The engine was heavly modified in the early development, to the point that now nobody can do nothing to improve the limitations of the core base. Even HeroEngine Dev´s can´t help on the engine because of so many modifications. The solution is to pass the assets to a more friendly engine... or not... and keep the problems going until they pull the plug on the game itself. I don´t believe that will happen because... This is no ordinary IP. License agreements Potencial revenews with the expanding universe EA/Bioware is being pressed to keep the game going... But the issue here is they only can push this modded engine so far... and its getting older and older with no tangible upgrades to fix the performance problems, fidelity problems, stability problems... So this is not just a matter of if... but when... Best Regards, LPC Simply because the revamped or added FEATURES does not mean a revamp to the game engine (which is the same as an update.). There is no evidence whatsoever that EVE did major changes to their game engine. You also can not "simply" pass the assets of this game onto "another engine". Think of the Engine as the Cerebellum. Your Cerebrum says " do this" it communicates this desire to the Cerebellum and the Cerebellum makes it happen. Now picture each Cerebrum having unique paths and a unique language (because in this case HeroEngine has its own unique scripting language) to talk to the Cerebellum and then each Cerebellum having unique paths to tell the muscles what to do. There is NOTHING simple about this at all. All you have managed to do thus far is prove you honestly have no idea how complex your demand is. I also suspect you have little experience with MMOs of this type because if you did you would know most of the issues that exist here and not in single player games is largely the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Don't forget unicorns... Come on everyone, you're feeding the troll, stop it! Well, either a troll, or a 13 year old sitting at home trying to sound all grown up, that happens too... Nah, i like pointing out the facts that show a troll's arguments to be based in fantasy and not facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I have been one of oldests players going on this game since Beta. Odd, not what your user number indicates.... lack of proper codding is noticable everywhere. Yes, we need more fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hello,I do like when ppl try to argue an then...In a very mature way, start bashing and calling names to other ppl... Its a very mature and friendly community here... I have seen so far in other topics, ppl offending other ppl, bashing, calling names, just because they don´t agree with the OP... How about... don´t like... don´t comment approuch? As far at my thread... it seems im the only one with problems on the engine and im the one that thinks that if anyone care nobody will anything about it... When a game is free, we have to "eat" whatever they gave us to eat...But as a paying member that believes a service must be well made (yes they are giving us a game and a service at the same time), they must fix the problems... I understand how mmo´s work, and how they need to be, to retain costumers... Everlasting problems that affect performance, kill the enjoyment (and im not talking about visual fidelity here).Bashing to ppl that their pc´s are crap, when we al know that the engine is broken, is bad and misinformative... Bioware sees these fanboys defending this and will say to them... "Fux them... they will eat whatever we give them..." Next... 20 bucks for the next Expansion with 4 hours of game content... No story classes, no fixes... and now no voice-overs.... " I understand the fear of many that they will close de lid on the development of the game... but come on...Disney is the one that are calling the shots... If they believe another company should work on their IP, they will kill it on EA on a second... EA is peanuts to Disney... I for one have allready sent my emails to both Bioware and EA, about the state of this game and what are they thinking in doing to resolve the problems... Best Regards... LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPaulusCobris Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Odd, not what your user number indicates.... Yes, we need more fish! No idea what are you talking about... I played in the beta and then purchased the collectors Edition (the big box). Im one of the founders, and i have been paying since then... So i have invested allready a lot on this game since comercial release (and also pre-order both expansions). Best Regards, LPC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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