Xcore Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 No worries, once I get the time to gather an understanding, I'll hold you to it. Thanks for understanding, I'm gonna go ahead and leave my horse in the shed lol... your assessment was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendekar Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Bioware, please just tell us this system is working as intended and I will know what to do with Swtor when the story is over. There is no way I will continue playing with the current broken combat system. Edited December 28, 2011 by Rendekar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canarith Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 You know, the more I read and see this response of changing the queuing to 0.0 from 0.5 the more upset I get. I am generally very nice and understanding but this is slowly but surely going to make me do a very offensive rage-post. Who do you believe you are? You have the "nerve" to respond to a serious subject, a thread that has over 85,000 views within just over 24 hours and 2,000 replies full of fruitful discussion. YET YOU, yes YOU... have the nerve of not reading past page 10 (where this has been woefully disproven already, and many times over in the thread) come all the way to the end of the discussion, page 200 ish and spew your un-informed garbage? Who in the hell do you think you are? You, as well as every other person who responds with the ability queue timer do nothing but show your lack of intellect as well as comprehension. Xcore, I think you need to let up a bit on the vitriolic responses. Let me be clear, I agree with the fact that the delay is annoying. I have seen it when trying to cast Dark Infusion and seeing the delay on it. However, I can understand that people are generally not gonna be able to read more than 10 pages of a thread. Most posts within the ten pages tend to be simply people saying they agree with what you said. Would you want to read a book that had thirty pages in a row where there were only two new sentences per page you read and everything else looked like lines you write when you get punishment in school? This is what leads a lot of people to not read that many pages. This being said, I don't see this as a thing that will cause the demise of the game. While it is rather annoying, it is also NOT the reason why WoW is so popular. WoW is so popular due to its minimalistic computer requirements, ridiculously easy leveling concept, and a huge crowd of fanatical Warcraft fans(from previous Warcraft games). The latter is the reason why I this will not be something that can cause TOR to fail. Star Wars has a huge following itself, from movies to games that will keep it going for a while. I apologize if you covered this and perhaps already said that it will last a certain period of time before even the fan tires of what you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusMX Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 When I saw the WoW video with the Fred Flintstone landscape and mounting a big Turkey .............I remembered why I quit wow after my 1st 30 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berothop Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 i agree with you completely .. the game is amazing and everything but its frustrating have having to wait for an ability you casted like 0.5 - 1 sec ago i hate that . This game is so good but I would like to play with the responsiveness i had in wow . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajamaman Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 You couldn't be more right OP, I've noticed this from day one, I've played a few MMOs and I don't mean to say this as a bragging point or anything of the sort, but I play an ele sham in WoW and I rank on many fights and coming to this game the syrupy combat feeling and animation lag present is just absurd. When I spam Lightning bolt they almost feel connected from one to the next and in this game when I use Force Lightning it's just sort of clunky, try Dark heal...you dont start healing til atleast .3 secs after you click it. That is HORRIBLE, as a big heal we're really expected to sit there and watch the animation before it goes off? .3 seconds is the difference between life and death in pvp and raids. I feel like if this is not addressed I will most certainly quit after this month. It's a great game it was extremely well made with super potential but this is a huge issue and I can't see myself raiding or PvPing in a game with this combat style... Right on for making this btw, definitely toasting in an epic bread. /end rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulduet Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Some clearly have the problem while others don't. Simple as that. I have the problem and it's quite annoying. Lining up to a monster, click my ability, wait ~0.5 seconds before it even triggers, it gets old fast. This is with 30-50ms latency. A week/few days ago i thought i was the only one with this problem. I was blaming my computer, ie the fps. There has been a few videos posted of the problem and i think they speak pretty clearly by themselves that something just isn't right for *some* of us. I'd just be happy to know why some are affected by this problem while others aren't. Kinda hard tho since BW haven't even responded afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlescuba Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Xcore, I think you need to let up a bit on the vitriolic responses. Let me be clear, I agree with the fact that the delay is annoying. I have seen it when trying to cast Dark Infusion and seeing the delay on it. However, I can understand that people are generally not gonna be able to read more than 10 pages of a thread. Most posts within the ten pages tend to be simply people saying they agree with what you said. Would you want to read a book that had thirty pages in a row where there were only two new sentences per page you read and everything else looked like lines you write when you get punishment in school? This is what leads a lot of people to not read that many pages. This being said, I don't see this as a thing that will cause the demise of the game. While it is rather annoying, it is also NOT the reason why WoW is so popular. WoW is so popular due to its minimalistic computer requirements, ridiculously easy leveling concept, and a huge crowd of fanatical Warcraft fans(from previous Warcraft games). The latter is the reason why I this will not be something that can cause TOR to fail. Star Wars has a huge following itself, from movies to games that will keep it going for a while. I apologize if you covered this and perhaps already said that it will last a certain period of time before even the fan tires of what you are referring to. I disagree the combat is what makes WoW better than most. Sure everything else is nice but the playability of the game is ridiculously good. I want Swtor is be better. Edited December 28, 2011 by Littlescuba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Xcore, I think you need to let up a bit on the vitriolic responses. Let me be clear, I agree with the fact that the delay is annoying. I have seen it when trying to cast Dark Infusion and seeing the delay on it. However, I can understand that people are generally not gonna be able to read more than 10 pages of a thread. Most posts within the ten pages tend to be simply people saying they agree with what you said. Would you want to read a book that had thirty pages in a row where there were only two new sentences per page you read and everything else looked like lines you write when you get punishment in school? This is what leads a lot of people to not read that many pages. This being said, I don't see this as a thing that will cause the demise of the game. While it is rather annoying, it is also NOT the reason why WoW is so popular. WoW is so popular due to its minimalistic computer requirements, ridiculously easy leveling concept, and a huge crowd of fanatical Warcraft fans(from previous Warcraft games). The latter is the reason why I this will not be something that can cause TOR to fail. Star Wars has a huge following itself, from movies to games that will keep it going for a while. I apologize if you covered this and perhaps already said that it will last a certain period of time before even the fan tires of what you are referring to. You're right about the green txt, I believe you're very wrong about the red. I'm not sure how much better I can put it really, WoW is absolutely where it is for many reasons, some of which you listed and many more BUT it is vitally important for gamers and developers to subjectively understand the fact that the #1 reason is the "feeling" of "smooth gameplay" which this entire thread is about. Responsiveness is absolutely the #1 defining characteristic about WoW. You know the funny thing is, this "feeling" of responsiveness is so very hard to define in the concept of an MMO (because its so new!) that there simply is not more understanding on this topic. Everyone leaves WoW, everyone hates WoW because of so many things that suck about it... but everyone "plays" WoW, why!? When you ask, generally you get the response of "it just feels better than X game, its less clunky, I dunno". The #1 Quality of "any" game I would argue has got to be Responsiveness, if you are not your avatar, everything is over. All the walls crumble and expose the ugly interior, some games have stronger Walls (Rift, LotRO?) some weaker (Warhammer) but in the end, even though it is many failings that brought them down (PvP sucked, PvE sucked, Buggy w/e) the #1 thing will always be the disconnect between the Keyboard and the guy you created before you ever entered the world. I believe it is vital to try to understand this, There is no amount story, there is no animation cool enough to override "absolute and complete" control of your Avatar... because your Avatar IS YOU, as soon as this illusion is broken, it is all over. Its all a feeling, so hard to define... 200 hours of story go down the drain to .5 seconds of delay between me and Xcore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sttm Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Please Bioware work on this and communicate with the community about it. When I play Star Wars The Old Republic I feel like I do when I am playing an RTS. Where abilities are slightly delayed and I am disconnected with my character/units and the action because of it. It works just enough for leveling up and enjoying the rich storytelling but it degrades my enjoyment of the combat. It does it to such a level that I do not see myself playing the game past the first month. In a First Person Shooter, you feel in control, one with the character on the screen. In Call of Duty or Battlefield, I react to something and I get immediate feedback on the screen, but in SW:TOR, I react, then I wait to see if my character reacts. At the worst times it gives me the same annoyance I get when the audio for a TV show is delayed and I notice the actor's lips moving yet the words do not match. It pulls me out of the action, out of the scene, out of the game. Yet this is not true of all MMO's and as the original poster mentions, it is not true of World of Warcraft, there you hit the button and you are immediately gratified with a reaction, giving that high level of responsiveness that puts you in the action. SW:TOR very much needs to play like an FPS, to give that gratifying feeling of responsiveness, to keep the players in the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendekar Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Well, guess what ? They probably knew that they would get this kind of reaction from many players that are used to fluent combat because I am pretty sure there are people in Swtor's development team who have played WoW for years. They knew but probably couldn't help it or game director/lead designers were clueless about mmo style combat and they failed miserably to understand the basics. We expect a response right ? Probably not gonna happen. They will let us leave and try to keep the super casual players. Even 500k casuals are more than enough for them. Since this is about SW and stuff, maybe they think they can keep the number even with the current state of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMasterRP Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 When I saw the WoW video with the Fred Flintstone landscape and mounting a big Turkey .............I remembered why I quit wow after my 1st 30 days. Which is why it's sad that a game that looks so aged and outdated still outperforms newcomers in terms of pure gameplay/engine mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_propaganda_ Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Posting to rate in hopes BW sees. Friend and I got the game together and it was the first thing I noticed. Love the game, can't handle this. It is game breaking in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtravins Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Completely agree with the OP. I've noticed a real disconnect between my button-pressing and what actually happens on screen, whether it's failed casts with activation bars going off or no animations during actual casting. While it isn't that big a deal in leveling content, I can tell already that this kind of combat system will not keep my subscription fee. If I'm PVPing, I want to be able to target someone who is casting a heal nearby and use my Off-the-GCD interrupt to shut down his big heal and continue to CC/DPS/Heal as needed. I want to be able to start moving the *INSTANT* a cast finishes going through the bar to start kiting those nasty Shadows/Assassins or Scoundrels/Operatives, not a full 0.2s AFTER the cast to ensure that it finishes properly due to a spell-casting *ANIMATION* of all things. If an endgame Nightmare Boss raid spawns waves of adds with casts that must be interrupted, the clunkiness of the combat system (re-targeting and trying to get an instant, off-GCD interrupt) will guarentee many many wipes until raiders have memorized spawn points and devote 100% of their focus to getting casts interrupted within the first half-second of being activated. tl;dr - Once I'm finished going through the class storylines I'm interested in, my sub to this game is done unless the combat system sees a serious fix for this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 The problem is only made worse by the fact that the delay doesn't seem to affect NPCs. Its hard to tell so maybe I'm wrong. I know that when I aggro a group of mobs the one I hit stays on me but all the others immediately aggro my companion before I've even had time to do a second attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulduet Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Well, guess what ? They probably knew that they would get this kind of reaction from many players that are used to fluent combat because I am pretty sure there are people in Swtor's development team who have played WoW for years. They knew but probably couldn't help it or game director/lead designers were clueless about mmo style combat and they failed miserably to understand the basics. We expect a response right ? Probably not gonna happen. They will let us leave and try to keep the super casual players. Even 500k casuals are more than enough for them. Since this is about SW and stuff, maybe they think they can keep the number even with the current state of the game. Yeah, but it doesn't explain why some are unaffected by it. What even causes this problem? Is everyone having it just they don't "know" it. I doubt that. My problem is so obvious that anyone would notice it. Just clicking on an ability with a target and then *waiting* 0.5 seconds before anything even happens - that is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheron Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 This thread has my approval. Please fix it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opiatesalvation Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 A nice 3 seconds on ravage in melee range while you twirl and whirl your sabers and can't move and eat everyone's cc and burst. With level 50s premades all over the place in pvp now on my server it's a death every time .... Guaranteed. just like using a channeled ability like chainlightning... use something else if you don't have three seconds to spend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendekar Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah, but it doesn't explain why some are unaffected by it. What even causes this problem? Is everyone having it just they don't "know" it. I doubt that. My problem is so obvious that anyone would notice it. Just clicking on an ability with a target and then *waiting* 0.5 seconds before anything even happens - that is just wrong. Some are not affected by it ? It's even there in their demonstration videos from E3 etc.. The ones who say that they are not affected probably don't even know what we are talking about here. See : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AoECTU23y_8#t=159s Edited December 28, 2011 by Rendekar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devolution Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I made a video showing a brief example of animation cancelling, just one of the issues bogging down character responsiveness. At about 0:13 my Riposte (number 5 skill) lights up and becomes available. I spam the button, and watch as my character proceeds to reset his animation every time I hit it. This is a reoccuring problem, and others have experienced it as well. Before it's asked, no I didn't have lag, my latency remains stable and at 4 bars (in the bottom right). Edited December 28, 2011 by Devolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheron Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Some are not affected by it ? It's even there in their demonstration videos from E3 etc.. The ones who say that they are not affected probably don't even know what we are talking about here. Yeah they think it's some kind of delay. The problem is the responsiveness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xandarous Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Adding another to the long list but this is getting totally game breaking in pvp.... Force push has many strategic applications but almost never works right due to the ability delay. PVP needs to be smooth. Just make the game smooth and you will make 90% of the player base extremely happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulduet Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 ^ That wouldn't explain why when i attack a monster and wait for my ability to trigger, some guy can randomly run past me and attack the mob before i even got my shot off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 I made a video showing a brief example of animation cancelling, just one of the issues bogging down character responsiveness. At about 0:13 my Riposte (number 5 skill) lights up and becomes available. I spam the button, and watch as my character proceeds to reset his animation every time I hit it. This is a reoccuring problem, and others have experienced it as well. Before it's asked, no I didn't have lag, my latency remains stable and at 4 bars (in the bottom right). Very nice video example of melee specifically, tyvm Devolution... adding to OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendekar Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Very nice video example of melee specifically, tyvm Devolution... adding to OP. You can add my video showing the problem with responsiveness of Force Sweep If you want to. Here it is (Lots of ppl already seen it I guess) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmhYjkUqOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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