Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Mandemalex]

 

Ive been trying for a few hours now x.x

 

 

I tell you what, it's very nice to see this kind of response - if not a little bit confusing

 

As much as I shouldn't compare, you rarely see a WoW-post as constructive as this, yet here we see people like yourself who, although not affected - would like to become part of the solution/diagnosis of the problem. Props to you sir.

 

Might I also ask, are you a previous WoW-player? or previous MMO player? or new to the MMO world? Some answers to these might help why you cannot see any 'delays' in combat.

 

However, as much as I fear it - perhaps you genuinely don't suffer from these issues - and if that is the case, what the bleeding 'eck is causing the delay after abilities to so many people? o.0

 

Edit: If you have the patience, the main culprit I find for this 'ability lag' is 'Lightning Strike' on a Sith Sorcerer (Level 10)... once the cast bar has been completely filled, it still takes an extra 0.2 - 0.4 seconds before the lightning leaves your hand, and you are able to cast your next ability.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Mandemalex

[dekey]

Well..Im not denying the effects being linked to the animation but I have yet to be able to cause a cd to appear or have problems with moves not going off.

 

Ive been trying for a few hours now x.x

 

 

@Leilei:

 

We are referring generally to abilities that have a "casting" animation longer than the GCD causing a delay in when you can cast your next ability.

 

Instead of being available immediately after the GCD, you wont be able to do it until the animation has ended.

 

If the animation for the 1st ability is less than the GCD, you will not see this issue.

 

@all;

 

If you're not having this problem, great! I would love to know how you manage that. I don't really care if you have the issue or not, but I would like to know how I can avoid it as it currently dampens my gameplay experience.

 

I really want this game to be amazing and successful but this, for me, is a big roadblock.

[netdude]

This is an issue for me as well. Things could be 'tighter.'

[Ryzerion]

The only other game to match the responsive i have seen in WOW was Guild Wars 2. Where everything was fluid especially visible when doing your rotations.

 

While i have seen worse then SWTOR (Warhammer and LOTR was horrible at this) when it comes to this. I think Bioware should look to improve here as it can certainly make or break the game.

 

After trying it at the gamescom I must agree.

 

I hope SWTOR fixes this issue.

[Taboo]

I agree with everyone that at the moment the most important thing is for a dev to actually respond or give us some sort of feedback on this.

 

Let's just hope that BioWare don't go down that road of not making gameplay the biggest factor in their game.

[Runarc]

Tried kiting as a BH today. Did it perfectly on my hunter for years and my char felt so unresponsive and sluggish while trying to strafe-fire (quick jump > 180 degree turn shoot, turn back).

 

Totally agree with the OP. Compared to WoW (and specifically arena), where every half a second counts if you do it right on a 2200+ level, warzones just feel unresponsive and sluggish.

 

I need my char to run smooth, currently that just isn't happening and it will kill the PvP in tis game more than queues, no ladder and no brackets ever will.

 

If you don't know what i mean, try thinking of fake-casting interrupts in this game.

 

Then you might understand .

Edited December 26, 2011 by Runarc

[Darkvayder]

This is an issue for me as well. Things could be 'tighter.'

 

I have played both melee and ranged dps soo far and it seems melee isnt nearly as bad with this issue as ranged, especially playing my sniper with getting into cover it can be quite annoying.

[Xcore]

.............jjjjjjjuuuusstt a bummmp for this topiccccc..............GCD! There it goes!

 

lol... you win

[Leilei]

@Leilei:

 

We are referring generally to abilities that have a "casting" animation longer than the GCD causing a delay in when you can cast your next ability.

 

Instead of being available immediately after the GCD, you wont be able to do it until the animation has ended.

 

If the animation for the 1st ability is less than the GCD, you will not see this issue.

 

@all;

 

If you're not having this problem, great! I would love to know how you manage that. I don't really care if you have the issue or not, but I would like to know how I can avoid it as it currently dampens my gameplay experience.

 

I really want this game to be amazing and successful but this, for me, is a big roadblock.

 

 

Exactly and I asked a few times before that we should compile a list of abilities that have animation times longer than the gcd x.x

 

No one has pointed me to an ability yet and I havent run into an ability with animation higher than the gcd.

 

The only problem I saw was for something like charged burst which seems to fire too late but I could still use flurry of bolts the moment charged burst finishes casting and it goes BAMBAMABPEWPEWPEW

 

o.o

[baznasty]

Tried kiting as a BH today. Did it perfectly on my hunter for years and my char felt so unresponsive and sluggish while trying to strafe-fire (quick jump > 180 degree turn shoot, turn back).

 

Totally agree with the OP. Compared to WoW (and specifically arena), where every half a second counts if you do it right on a 2200+ level, warzones just feel unresponsive and sluggish.

 

I need my char to run smooth, currently that just isn't happening and it will kill the PvP in tis game more than queues, no ladder and no brackets ever will.

 

If you don't know what i mean, try thinking of fake-casting interrupts in this game.

 

Then you might understand .

 

I forsee fake casting a spell, the player interrupts at the the time you intend them to. Then you recast the spell, only now, their interrupt that was casted during your last spell now actually happens, interrupting your second spell. lol

[Annabelle]

I assume the reason why the responsiveness is slower than in WoW and other MMO's is because they wanted the game to feel more realistic with the blocking and have weapon collision instead of just your weapon flying through your opponent etc.

 

I'm ok with the little less responsive gameplay in exchange for a more realistic feel to the combat. However, I can see how this would annoy competitive people in PvP. Personally, I like how it is now However, I'm sure there are some crucial skills that could use adjustment to make it bearable for all.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Annabelle

[Mandemalex]

Exactly and I asked a few times before that we should compile a list of abilities that have animation times longer than the gcd x.x

 

No one has pointed me to an ability yet and I havent run into an ability with animation higher than the gcd.

 

The only problem I saw was for something like charged burst which seems to fire too late but I could still use flurry of bolts the moment charged burst finishes casting and it goes BAMBAMABPEWPEWPEW

 

o.o

 

I editted my post earlier to suggest one, but 'Lightning strike' for sorcerer is a main culprit for me, although the 1.5 second cast bar has clearly finished (as well as the GCD ofc) I still must wait until the lightning has physically left my hand, before I may cast another ability.

 

EDIT: Dark heal and Dark Infusion seem to suffer the same problem.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Mandemalex

[Leilei]

Tried kiting as a BH today. Did it perfectly on my hunter for years and my char felt so unresponsive and sluggish while trying to strafe-fire (quick jump > 180 degree turn shoot, turn back).

 

Totally agree with the OP. Compared to WoW (and specifically arena), where every half a second counts if you do it right on a 2200+ level, warzones just feel unresponsive and sluggish.

 

I need my char to run smooth, currently that just isn't happening and it will kill the PvP in tis game more than queues, no ladder and no brackets ever will.

 

If you don't know what i mean, try thinking of fake-casting interrupts in this game.

 

Then you might understand .

 

I can kite WoW style fine with my smuggler. I just have to use vital shot and flurry of bolts though. I never tried it with other abilities cuz theyre melee.

 

I can even use my thermal grenades while 360-ing in the air.

 

you cant use it with every ability but you can most definitely use it on some.

[dekey]

No one has pointed me to an ability yet and I havent run into an ability with animation higher than the gcd.

 

 

Ok so for me as a sniper; the most noticeable example would be rolling into cover and commencing my ambush cast. It reaches mid way and cancels itself and needs to be recast.

 

If i was too early and still entering cover, the cast would not begin so I must be in cover for it to even start.

 

What it appears to be is once ive reached cover, my Sniper does a little adjusment so that she's knelt with gun level. It looks to me that this is interrupting my cast.

 

You should have no problems recreating this.

 

Worth noting that this is only rolling into natural cover. Using Kneel or "mobile cover" does not cause this problem despite being the same sequence of abilities.

[veevito]

@Leilei:

 

We are referring generally to abilities that have a "casting" animation longer than the GCD causing a delay in when you can cast your next ability.

 

Instead of being available immediately after the GCD, you wont be able to do it until the animation has ended.

 

If the animation for the 1st ability is less than the GCD, you will not see this issue.

 

@all;

 

If you're not having this problem, great! I would love to know how you manage that. I don't really care if you have the issue or not, but I would like to know how I can avoid it as it currently dampens my gameplay experience.

 

I really want this game to be amazing and successful but this, for me, is a big roadblock.

 

I think i'm understanding your issue, however i'm not seeing it on my Jedi guardian either.

 

Let me explain what I just did and you tell me if i'm understanding correctly. I just logged in to try it to be sure.

 

On my guardian I used master strike which has a 3 second animation. A pretty nice one too. Anyway, to see if the animation stopped me from executing another action, in the middle of master strike I hit slash (I believe it's called) and it immediately interrupted my master strike animation and launched into the slash animation.

 

I also tried it on my reactive ability Riposte. I waited until it became available before launching into master strike. So I let myself get beat on until Riposte lit up, then I launched MS into its 3 second animation and just as the GCD was up (in the middle of MS animation with 1.5 seconds left to go) I hit Riposte. It imediately interrupted MS and used Riposte.

 

So, if i'm understanding correctly i'm just not seeing it. Correct me if i'm wrong here.

 

As a side note, I seem to remember abilities having their damage front loaded in an earlier beta. Sept. maybe. Now you must wait for the animimation to finish to receive the full damage from MS. So, even though I can interrupt it, there's a tradeoff.

[Vrumpt]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

[Tookis]

this is the most frustrating thing in the world as a healer.

 

there is nothing worse than mashing the hell out of a button because you need that skill to go off RIGHT THAT VERY INSTANT and you end up dieing because there is a delay between pushing a button and a skill actually getting used

 

this game has a lot of things right, but this is something that it has terribly wrong.

[Xcore]

Exactly and I asked a few times before that we should compile a list of abilities that have animation times longer than the gcd x.x

 

No one has pointed me to an ability yet and I havent run into an ability with animation higher than the gcd.

 

The only problem I saw was for something like charged burst which seems to fire too late but I could still use flurry of bolts the moment charged burst finishes casting and it goes BAMBAMABPEWPEWPEW

 

o.o

 

I'm sorry to say but before trying to make a list of these abilities and detailed issues (the Job of fixing the whole subject/issue) we need some communication and acknowledgment from Bioware here...

[tehmoose]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

 

Except its not that.

 

The queue does not work properly in any event. The issue here is with the client saying that an ability has finished, and an ability being cancelled or not firing off because of movement, or hitting another button.

[Tookis]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

 

this is not what people are talking about.

 

there is a delay between pushing a button and using a skill.

 

i have my ability queue turned off and no matter what i do there is a delay between me pushing a button and a skill being used. the delay isnt present when you are casting a single spell. (as in, youre sitting in the middle of town and randomly mash an AOE button while running around)

 

this is a problem when youre chain casting (as in, when youre healing a tank) and you go from chain casting a big heal to suddenly casting a bubble.

 

from the time the last heal goes off to the time the bubble is cast is rather large delay. and dont even try to tell me that its me being slow on pushing the button, i bind skills to the mousewheel and scroll as fast as possible (beginning before the previous skill is even done casting) and there is STILL a delay.

[Mandemalex]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

 

I think you misunderstand. Having tested the queue system myself (personally I loathe and detest queue systems) the queue STILL only abides by animation, not the GCD. The ability will activate after the animation has finished, and not the cast bar/GCD.

[Xcore]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

 

This has nothing to do with the initiation of an ability (queue system, though that doesn't work well either) but the execution of an ability and animation. Before posting, please read about 20-50 pages of this thread to have a firmer grasp, then join the discussion.

[Runarc]

This is the ability queuing system you are describing, its not a bug, its working as intended.

 

This is designed so you don't have to spam your keyboard every millisecond so you hit your ability the second it goes off gcd. You hit your ability within the threshold that you can set up in your settings and the ability is used the next time your off GCD.

 

Understand that SWTOR isn't an exact copy of WoW, its its own thing, and maybe there won't be a need for these pointless threads.

 

Turned it off, same issue.

[Lucind_]

Agree and signed!

[CandiMynx]

... no... I'm not sure if I should indulge and attempt to clarify that this has "NOTHING" to do with hardware AT ALL or if you're trolling me.

 

Please, instead of me poking around trying to close the gap to your understanding of this subject... why don't you ask me what you're misunderstanding and I will answer and perhaps we will be on the same page.

 

Some of it has to somehow be lag, latency, or FPS/Hardware related.. because I have this problem.

 

... but not all of the time, or in all of the areas, simply from a PVE standpoint. That's not to say your points are incorrect.. but I think it's a more complicated issue. It almost feels like the UI does not respond as quickly to your key presses when you're getting heavy FPS lag... which is a Bad Thing . I certainly have not done extensive testing but that'd just a gut feeling on my part in my playtime. It is an overarching problem that I do hope they iron out with some work. It took WoW a long time to really iron out and get the tech working to where you could adjust it manually for your delay, too, so... Give them some time.

 

Edit:

 

I think you misunderstand. Having tested the queue system myself (personally I loathe and detest queue systems) the queue STILL only abides by animation, not the GCD. The ability will activate after the animation has finished, and not the cast bar/GCD.

 

That is actually quite interesting to see, from my experience. That could mean that with stuttering or some sort of severe FPS delay, your abilities from your perspective could be delayed. Yes, theoretically, they should fire off in the same time from a server side perspective, but that could be why when your FPS dips, it makes it feel even laggier to me. That seems like an issue that needs to be corrected - Either time the animations TO the GCD or have it abide by the GCD over the actual animation.

Edited December 26, 2011 by CandiMynx