Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[TripleOG]

I'm only about half way reading the posts. But I just want to support this! I am a former glad in wow (I quit pre-cata) and i also raided in a top 50 guild for a while.

 

I am a huge gamer of all genres and i play every game at a break-neck pace, just how I like to do it. Everything feels so slow in SW:TOR like I'm just waiting for animations to finish before i use my next ability. And Warzones are an entirely different matter. I have no idea what is making them so bad but, there will be 2-3 second delays before an instant ability will actually fire. I can't even queue up anymore to put myself through it.

 

Obviously this is a (potentially) great game, and we'd all love to see it thrive and become the monster of an MMO that it can be, but combat has to be quick and fluid and players should not be limited to playing as fast as the animations allow, thats just silly. You can barely tell the difference between experienced mmo pvpers in warzones because its just a cluster of people waiting for abilities to go off.

 

If BioWare wants their game to actually do well and be the next major MMO then they need to speak up about changes to this specific problem. Otherwise I'll be gone before my first monthly payment.

 

Same. I wont put my self through hours of frustration for nothing. I didnt even play today.... so depressing. I spent all my time on the forums looking for some hope that this will be fixed.

[Truga]

I think the problem might actually be client prediction and desync. EVE used to have huge problems with this in laggy situations (1200+ people on screen), but they managed to fix it (after years but hey). I don't see why swtor wouldn't be able to do the same, seeing how the numbers are lower.. Edited December 27, 2011 by Truga

[everythought]

Exactly what the OP said. Those eloquent crafted storylines are nice and all... but when many key actions feel like they are behind... yeah....

[TheJmoney]

I think the problem might actually be client prediction and desync. EVE used to have huge problems with this in laggy situations (1200+ people on screen), but they managed to fix it (after years but hey. I don't see why swtor wouldn't be able to do the same, seeing how the numbers are lower..

 

The funny thing is that TOR doesn't even have 1/2 of 1200 people on an instance... not even a 1/4 of 1200. Most planet instances I've seen so far top out at about 100.

 

Not to mention that WoW has thousands and thousands of people playing on the same server, same continent, hell, even inside Orgrimmar/SW at peak time, and no problems like this exists. I can guarantee you that if a shaman casting lightning bolt(or any other caster class) had to wait for his spell animation to hit the target an disappear before casting another spell, WoW would've been dead and gone in 2004.

Edited December 27, 2011 by TheJmoney

[GumBoil]

I can't help feeling it is worse since they have upped the caps on the servers.

 

Killing stuff by firing skills is a large part of the game it needs to be satisfying in it's own right. To do this it must be crisp and responsive.

Edited December 27, 2011 by GumBoil

[Senatsu]

The funny thing is that TOR doesn't even have 1/2 of 1200 people on an instance... not even a 1/4 of 1200. Most planet instances I've seen so far top out at about 100.

 

Not to mention that WoW has thousands and thousands of people playing on the same server, same continent, hell, even inside Orgrimmar/SW at peak time, and no problems like this exists. I can guarantee you that if a shaman casting lightning bolt(or any other caster class) had to wait for his spell animation to hit the target an disappear before casting another spell, WoW would've been dead and gone in 2004.

 

Very true. That is the only reason I stuck with WoW for so long, because no other MMO managed to nail down the character responsiveness as comfortably as Blizzard did.

[TripleOG]

I can't help feeling it is worse since they have upped the caps on the servers.

 

To be honest, It doesn't even bother me while I level. Its running flashpoints and warzones where your really notice it.

[Senatsu]

To be honest, It doesn't even bother me while I level. Its running flashpoints and warzones where your really notice it.

 

You notice it on golden elite mobs, when you're soloing. You can just see the health bar of the mob going down slow as **** compared to usually.

[TripleOG]

You notice it on golden elite mobs, when you're soloing. You can just see the health bar of the mob going down slow as **** compared to usually.

 

True.

[jeinasindorei]

Why are people expecting lots of developer comments in a thread that was made over the biggest holiday weekend of the year? Anyone who is qualified to answer your concerns didn't work yesterday(and might not have worked today).

 

Anyway, all I see are fluid animations that aren't choppy or generic. It hasn't negatively impacted my ability to play or enjoy the game. Combat is fun, interesting and exciting. Which is more than I can say for the game you keep referencing.

 

In my honest opinion, the system works fine. Maybe everyone should just adjust their playstyle to compensate for this "change" instead of button spamming to kill stuff. Just because you did it in other games to succeed, doesn't mean you have to in this one.

[Zironic]

Why are people expecting lots of developer comments in a thread that was made over the biggest holiday weekend of the year? Anyone who is qualified to answer your concerns didn't work yesterday(and might not have worked today).

 

Anyway, all I see are fluid animations that aren't choppy or generic. It hasn't negatively impacted my ability to play or enjoy the game. Combat is fun, interesting and exciting. Which is more than I can say for the game you keep referencing.

 

In my honest opinion, the system works fine. Maybe everyone should just adjust their playstyle to compensate for this "change" instead of button spamming to kill stuff. Just because you did it in other games to succeed, doesn't mean you have to in this one.

 

Releasing your companies most major product, and then sending everyone on a vacation is not the brightest business strategy around.

[ArmchairMagpie]

Agreeing about the topic. As a healer this is a very important issue. I am used to multi-task and switch targets fast, but sometimes the heal won't go off or just it will prematurely cancel the other cast even though it shouldn't have. Even worse are the times when abilities won't go off or flat out heal for +0(!).

[TripleOG]

Agreeing about the topic. As a healer this is a very important issue. I am used to multi-task and switch targets fast, but sometimes the heal won't go off or just it will prematurely cancel the other cast even though it shouldn't have. Even worse are the times when abilities won't go off or flat out heal for +0(!).

 

Omg, couldn't agree more. Furthermore, I would challenge anyone saying this is some kind of 'myth' to role a healing class and tell me that this is not an issue.

[GumBoil]

To me it feels as if the Client is acting before the server response

 

This must happen for things to feel immediate. If you wait for the server .1 .2 or even .3 of a second will have elapsed before the server says OK go ahead. This is just from the round trip delay of client server .

 

You need to start the cast bar and animation immediately and if the server says 'no you can't do that' (cause the mob is dead or has moved out of range for example) you abort it. If you don't you will never get crisp feeling combat. There is an element of smoke and mirrors involved.

[GumBoil]

Agreeing about the topic. As a healer this is a very important issue. I am used to multi-task and switch targets fast, but sometimes the heal won't go off or just it will prematurely cancel the other cast even though it shouldn't have. Even worse are the times when abilities won't go off or flat out heal for +0(!).

 

Should just mention laggy raid frames too!

[the-rzr]

I'm so happy to see this post, but I have to bring up something that I feel adds to this problem: The mouselook camera.

 

There is a "glide" in the mouselook camera when you begin to, and when you stop, turning. There is also some form of mouse acceleration added as you look around. This greatly adds to the overall feeling of bad responsiveness for me, and for other people I know. I hardly believed it when I started playing, that even after a fairly long beta, you would release a game with camera control/mouselook like this. On a console it might make sense, but on PC? Never.

 

The OP is absolutely right, responsiveness is key. If a game feels "tight" it's so much more enjoyable to play. SW:TOR does not feel tight at all, and I'm pretty sure that if I wasn't enjoying the storyline so much, I would not be playing it. So what happens when I reach end-game, when the storyline is over?

 

Bioware, you NEED to make this better, or the longevity of your game will be greatly diminished. All the most recognized games through gaming history have had excellent response and "feel": Quake, Starcraft, WoW, Half-Life... I'd want to see SW:TOR alongside those titles.

[Oneiros_IV]

In my honest opinion, the system works fine. Maybe everyone should just adjust their playstyle to compensate for this "change" instead of button spamming to kill stuff. Just because you did it in other games to succeed, doesn't mean you have to in this one.

 

We aren't for "spamming" as you put it, there's GCD and cooldowns to prevent that. As it should be.

 

We just want the abilities to be reliably available the moment game promises them to be.

[sebekmaj]

I agree with the post and I hope that BioWare won't destroy their great game just by screwing up this thing.

[Kalantris]

Agreeing about the topic. As a healer this is a very important issue. I am used to multi-task and switch targets fast, but sometimes the heal won't go off or just it will prematurely cancel the other cast even though it shouldn't have. Even worse are the times when abilities won't go off or flat out heal for +0(!).

 

Yeah, that pisses me off the most. On a typical battleground heals land not with 0,5s delay. It's closer to 1-1,5s or even more in some cases. Sometimes they just vanish and don't heal nothing. No interrupt, nothing cancelled, cast finished ok, but no heal.

 

It's almost as irritating as the whole F1-F6 system on BGs, where F1 is you, F2 is the fifth guy from the top, F3 is the second one from the bottom and so on...

 

Regards,

Kalantris

[Merkmerk]

Guys,

 

It's the engine. They can't just 'fix' the responsiveness - it's built into the engine.

 

I hate to burst your bubble on this because I think the clunky gameplay will absolutely kill this otherwise great game, but it is what it is.

[Uuhwee]

150 sites long thread and no response from Bioware?

 

Do they realize how important this "issue" is?

 

As the author wrote, it will make swtor or it will break it.

[TheJmoney]

150 sites long thread and no response from Bioware?

 

Do they realize how important this "issue" is?

 

As the author wrote, it will make swtor or it will break it.

 

And it looks like it's going to break it.

[footface]

I havent noticed this that much on my assasin, but when i made a BH i could rly feel it, even in the pve.

 

Also when activating the mount, like people previously stated.

 

I support this thread!

[mbernert]

Why are people expecting lots of developer comments in a thread that was made over the biggest holiday weekend of the year? Anyone who is qualified to answer your concerns didn't work yesterday(and might not have worked today).

 

Anyway, all I see are fluid animations that aren't choppy or generic. It hasn't negatively impacted my ability to play or enjoy the game. Combat is fun, interesting and exciting. Which is more than I can say for the game you keep referencing.

 

In my honest opinion, the system works fine. Maybe everyone should just adjust their playstyle to compensate for this "change" instead of button spamming to kill stuff. Just because you did it in other games to succeed, doesn't mean you have to in this one.

 

I have already posted that I have an agree with the Op's post, but i will try to explain to this comment what it means for me.

 

I am playing the game, with this issue, and having fun. Warzones are fun, questing ect. sure. But the current system is not optimal, which is what I think most of us are asking for.

 

Say you have a car at home, just a regular vehicle. And lets say for argument it has a manual transmision. You could get on nascar and hear about them saying that car doesn't shift right. To you, you may drive that car everyday, not a problem getting it into gear. But to them, vs using a very well tuned transmition on a race car, your average vehicle just doesn't shift the same.

 

I think this anology points out the problem I have. Combat for me, mostly in pvp, just isn't made out to where you can be very competitive with it. It feels just like a random mashing of buttons. This can be fun sure, but I'm the type I like to exploit every .01 second out of everything I do to be the absolute best I can be at it.

 

The controls and abilities for me, aren't responding EXACTLY when I press them. I play with around 50 latency, average anywhere from 100 to sometimes 25-30fps in heavy battle warzones (not sure why, this games graphics are nothing to brag about, and my pc should be 3x more than enough to play this game).

[Medicinally]

Yep, I'm only lvl 12 on my BH but I notice it. I played wow for 7 years though so maybe casuals won't notice it too much or they think its "normal." I really, really want this game to be good however if this issue isn't addressed it'll be pandas all the way down for me.

 

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