Why Pre-made raid groups and fully equip ships, actually harm GSF and PvP matches.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Cross TV Stat-what?! What do TV stations have anything to do with cross queuing? How did you even try to make that fit as analogy? In fact that analogy is basically stating that instead of watching bad TV aka THE GAME ITESLF we should change TV stations or go outside. So switch to a different game or quit games all togther?

 

Yes, you switch to a different game. Or go out for a walk into the park. I did so today.

 

Besides, you sound very enraged over this "TV-stat-what". I guess that we should talk about this topic in 10 years again, when you've gotten the ability to take a step back when looking at things.

 

Me, however, I use analogies like this very often, and with a very high degree of success when I try to explain things, especially to Newbies.

 

You, on the other hand, are seemingly not able to explain your point of view by using *any* kind of analogy. Or you should have done so by now to show that my analogy was not good. Instead, you try to dissect my analogy as such.

 

And tools?! What tools do we have? Guides and videos? In game "agreements" to take it easy on rookies? THAT. IS. ALL. WE. HAVE!

 

You are so much tunnel-visioned that you fail to see that with "tools" I meant "tools" in a social meaning.

Like - as my example implies - when *everyone* is going into imperial side, why not go into republic side instead ? But no, no-one would do so, because of egoistic reasons.

Edited October 2, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[MaximilianPower]

Like - as my example implies - when *everyone* is going into imperial side, why not go into republic side instead ? But no, no-one would do so, because of egoistic reasons.

 

Well...no, that's certainly not true, not as a blanket rule. I know a few folks stick to a single faction no matter what, but aside from those people, nearly all of us have alts on both sides. And most of the folks I fly with routinely swap factions when a particular side becomes dominant.

 

I mean, sure, I suppose there are some people out there who enjoy the 50-2 or 1000-50 matches. But the majority of us (particularly those who haunt the forum) aren't interested in games like that. We try to pit ourselves against the better players, which (by necessity) means we'll need to switch sides at times.

[Archonitek]

Yes, you switch to a different game. Or go out for a walk into the park. I did so today.

I'm very happy for you. How does that improve the game?

Besides, you sound very enraged over this "TV-stat-what". I guess that we should talk about this topic in 10 years again, when you've gotten the ability to take a step back when looking at things.

 

Me, however, I use analogies like this very often, and with a very high degree of success when I try to explain things, especially to Newbies.

 

You, on the other hand, are seemingly not able to explain your point of view by using *any* kind of analogy. Or you should have done so by now to show that my analogy was not good. Instead, you try to dissect my analogy as such.

The purpose of analogies is to take a complex concept and simplify it by comparing it to something different that is familiar in order to increase understanding. Why do I need to use any kind of analogy to express my point of view if I can concisely address the topic so that everyone can understand? Not to mention the fact that the topic itself isn't complicated at all.

 

Using analogies all day doesn't make you more comprehensible than anyone else. And you already agreed that my dissection of your analogy was correct, which means the analogy itself was completely pointless since it doesn't add anything to the conversation.

You are so much tunnel-visioned that you fail to see that with "tools" I meant "tools" in a social meaning.

Like - as my example implies - when *everyone* is going into imperial side, why not go into republic side instead ? But no, no-one would do so, because of egoistic reasons.

Guides and videos, in game chat requests to not 3 cap or let them flip a satellite, inviting rookies to join the gsf channel so that they have a place to ask questions. Aren't these the social tools you say that we're "too egotistical" to use? Most of us already faction hop to even up the playing sides but sometimes matchmaking just hands out whacked rolls to everyone involved. I would much rather having real, in game tools provided by developers that would eliminate the need for the player base to use social tools in order to try and keep the game healthy.

[ShallowHal]

Just remember you are getting their "best" and should feel honored that they are not condescending toward you by taking it easy. Trust them they know what's best. It worked great on the servers they came from which is why they left. The queues were so full and healthy they thought they should help the poor folks on The Harbinger out. Soon that it too shall see their proven wisdom.

 

Just wanted to say LOL for this

[ShallowHal]

OK, returning to the firestorm I have set off by resurrecting an old thread.

 

I have thought on this problem a lot in this past week. I've watched as matches have proceeded. Been part of ROFLstomping teams that won, been part of teams that got ROFLstomped. Been in great matches that went down to the last five seconds. Been in a match that ended after one kill because there weren't enough players. Played with a myriad of different players.

 

First and foremost, there will never be a solution coming from EA. EA only puts money into things that make them money. GSF, with all its flaws, lost its money making potential long ago. The cartel market makes them money. So there will be no development energy, thought, or anything else going into GSF. I seriously doubt they'll ever permanently fix the unequip bug they creates.

 

Secondly, my three favorite players, hands down in this game and nobody else on Harbinger (my server) touches them.

 

1. Despon

2. Sixofone/Lucklessa

3. Rose

 

The rest of you aren't even in the same zipcode. I don't care how many videos you've made, how many groups you've been in, what your winning percentage is, etc. None of it matters as much as what these three players have in spades and 90% of the rest of you don't.

 

Inasmuch as I sense Despon's irritation with what (to him) is a recurring discussion with no solution, he is the most patient pleasant person I have ever had the pleasure of playing with on this server. He will literally group with ANYONE at ANY level and that, more than anything else, is what helps this game. Never ever complains about losing. Never blames anyone directly for the loss (though after the match, he will discuss how some people didn't contribute much and that's undeniable, though it's probably not due to lack of wanting to help). He believes in allowing weak teams to capture sats (earning them req), and then recapturing the sat (earning his team more req). This allows newer players to practice basic skills like destroying drones, flying near the node, capturing it, and thinking about how they can defend the node better as his gunship or scout comes over to take it back.

 

Some people, whom I shall not name, but have observed over the course of a few weeks NEVER invite anyone into their 4 man group other than other aces. Feel free to dispute this point. Don't care. Seen it in action and know it for a fact. See it happen most often on the pub side, where most of the ridiculous ROFLstomping teams are assembled and when those teams aren't playing, the level of play on the pub side is often pretty low, other than when people like Cap'n Hardcase are playing. They don't worry much about whether they are on winning or losing teams. They just play. Happens some on the Imp side, but I would say there are more good pilots on the Imp side who are willing to solo queue then there are on the pub side.

 

Over half of the people playing, whether they are capable of admitting to it or not, love to get in their best scout or gunship and farm weak ships for easy req. Again, deny this all you want. I've watched a lot of matches. I've told a lot of people to take it easy on weaker ships. Most of them ignore that request.

 

Over half of what I would consider the *true* aces of this game on Harbinger (of which there are probably less than 20 who deserve the title), whatever their personal philosophies are about how to conduct themselves in a tilted matchup, do not do this. They have the best interests of the game at heart and even if we disagree on how to achieve the best interests of the game, they absolutely do not want to chase new players away. They are just frustrated that the myriad of different things that have been tried haven't worked and they've given up putting a lot of effort into it.

 

The surprising thing (and the part that I only just realized is the real driving force behind all of this is this).

 

95% (and this may be low) of people who have played GSF regularly every week for six months are incredibly precious about what their W/L% is. I've seen people giddily comparing their 70% plus win rates (and I know many are higher). I can't think of anything more laughable than this. It's a number that no one else ever sees, other than you, unless you care to post the link in chat so that other people can see this. And that's why deep down, a lot of you like these clownstompings. You want to balance out the number of tough matches you have with 10 times as many sure-fire wins so that your win percentage looks good. To that, all I can say is the people who are that precious about their win percentage probably have never had a child and don't understand how one operates in a game where an adult competes against a child.

 

Shorter version: LOL at you.

 

As a side note, my main Imp GSF alt that I play has about a 45% win percentage. I've done a lot of hard learning on that alt. Could not possibly care less that it's that low.

 

When my oldest child was young, we used to play chess. Incredibly complicated game for a child. So many things to think about. An adult who has played many games of chess, whether or not they are at a level that can compete with adults who have high win percentages in chess against any class of adults, will stomp a child at the game because the child cannot "see the field" and see how one move affects 10 different things. It takes incredible skill to be an elite chess player, but it takes almost as much skill to allow your child to win every five games or so without them being aware that you are throwing the game in their favor to give them a reason to still like the game and want to continue playing, even though they lose 60-80% of the time. It's the 20% that keeps their interest. At least until they discover their smartphone or touchpad.

 

The biggest problem with this game is that too many people don't understand that a good portion of the GSF matches are effectively like an adult playing chess with a child. If you wipe them out four games in a row, they will quit before playing the fifth game. Plain and simple.

 

Now as Despon asks, "Well, that's all very good ShallowHal you pompous ***, but what are YOU doing to make the situation better?"

 

Well, here's what I do in game.

 

1. Once I realize a match is a clownstomping, after my first death subsequent to recognizing it's a clownstomping (and over 50% of the time, I can tell before the match even starts), I'm in my strike fighter that subscribers get for free. It's by far the ship I am worst at flying and easiest to be killed in. I still get some kills on people who don't know how to break a missile lock or get away from people who don't know what F3 is for, but on the whole, I'll probably die somewhere in the 4-5 times range and end up with a line that probably looks, at best, somewhere around 0-2 kills and 3-5 assists at best. Every now and then I outperform that, but it's nothing compared to the numbers I would put up with a bomber or a gunship against a team that has no idea what they are doing.

 

2. When I realize a match is a clownstomp, I ask my team to remember that the other team are people too and we all know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of a clownstomping. Some people insist that this is when they learn the most, but I think they're either secretly masochists or they just aren't telling the truth. At any rate, 90% of the players ignore this request, either because they want to "get theirs" or because they think the other guys should sack up and do something about it in their gimped ships. I think that attitude sucks and I realize that I am Don Quixote tilting at windmills on this, but I try anyway for the one or two people that maybe might think about it and do it.

 

And this is what I'm doing going forward

 

I spent $120,000 tonight (because I didn't want to wait around all night for good Samaritans and because I couldn't find anybody who wanted to sell an abandoned guild for a reasonable price) to get six people to help make two new guilds that are literally dedicated to one thing and one thing only.

 

Helping new GSF players learn how to play.

 

I'm not looking to form a guild that will eventually morph into a top squadron. I'm not looking to keep anybody in the guild for an extended period of time even. I'm forming the guilds because I can think of no better way to desemminate the VAST amount of GOOD information that would help new players learn VASTLY more quickly than by simply saying in a match "If you are new to GSF and want to learn the basic skills, join (insert name of guild)"

 

I have no delusions that this will be wildly successful. GSF is too much of a niche population in the SWTOR world for it to be. But if I could generate a running rotating membership of 2-5 other people and, over time, give them little things to work on (like instructing them on all the different buttons to press in the tutorial that the tutorial never tells you about), why flying to a node and guarding it all game is good, why spending fleet req to upgrade your stock ships is bad,bad bad, how to join the GSF channel, which pilots they should fly with, etc.), I feel like we could get a larger more interested population. Once they progress past that basic knowledge, I fully expect them to quit and join a real GSF guild with real pilots or join a general guild that encompasses all the parts of the game. But at least they will go to that new guild armed with the tools to stick with the game long enough to have a mastered ship and then be able to really have the fun that it is possible to have in this game once your ship is competitive.

 

Why would I put myself through this when everybody says that GSF guilds can't work? Well, number one, GSF is the most interesting aspect of the game for me right now. I hate ops, think conquest is a useless grind, PVE lost me years ago, I've done all the stories, dailies get old, ground PVP is 80% equipment, 10% hackers, 5% people who aren't hackers but are jerks to other players, and 5% skill, and 75% of SWTOR is just a grind because you are doing the same things over and over and over and over. GSF, despite its limited maps and only two different objectives, is the most diverse thing I can do in SWTOR every day. Moreover, the population among the people who can play is generally speaking nicer and more mature than the population in the other aspects of the endgame part of SWTOR.

 

But mostly it's because I'm happy when I'm helping people who actually need my help. I hate helping people who could help themselves if they'd get off their lazy asses. But when I help someone understand something better that they would have struggled to understand better without help, then I feel fulfilled.

 

The pub guild is called Flight School

The imp guild is called Flight Academy

 

Tomorrow I will see if I can manage to get 2 people in each faction to join. I probably will fail. But I will try.

Edited October 3, 2015 by ShallowHal

[DakhathKilrathi]

The rest of you aren't even in the same zipcode. I don't care how many videos you've made, how many groups you've been in, what your winning percentage is, etc. None of it matters as much as what these three players have in spades and 90% of the rest of you don't.

 

I wrote a guide, for one. I link to the multiple good guides on the forum every chance I get. I offer tips. For a long time, I actively argued against three capping. Do you know why I stopped?

 

I got crap for it. It didn't matter what I did, I got crap for it. Either it was my responsibility to hold a team back, or it was somehow my fault for not being able to play both sides at the same time. I got so much hate and crap in the /gsf channel that, after literally months of putting up with it, I got tired of it. Why should I keep bashing my head against that same wall? That's not fun for me, and evidently it wasn't actually fun for the people I was supposedly "helping" either. Why bother?

 

Sure, once in a while I'll still let a sat flip a few times, but I'm not going to argue over it. It's just not worth the time or the effort required for people who are going to blame me anyway.

 

Some people, whom I shall not name, but have observed over the course of a few weeks NEVER invite anyone into their 4 man group other than other aces. Feel free to dispute this point. Don't care. Seen it in action and know it for a fact. See it happen most often on the pub side, where most of the ridiculous ROFLstomping teams are assembled and when those teams aren't playing, the level of play on the pub side is often pretty low, other than when people like Cap'n Hardcase are playing. They don't worry much about whether they are on winning or losing teams. They just play. Happens some on the Imp side, but I would say there are more good pilots on the Imp side who are willing to solo queue then there are on the pub side.

 

And this is the crap I was talking about! I'm sorry, no. You don't know what I do on my home server. You don't know how often I solo queue, and you don't know how often I pick up groups from the GSF channel. You don't know what any of us are actually doing, because you're not there. Take your sense of entitlement and shove it somewhere. Instead of coming to the forums to whine about how you're not having fun, have you tried actually asking to group with any of us?

 

Over half of what I would consider the *true* aces of this game on Harbinger (of which there are probably less than 20 who deserve the title), whatever their personal philosophies are about how to conduct themselves in a tilted matchup, do not do this. They have the best interests of the game at heart and even if we disagree on how to achieve the best interests of the game, they absolutely do not want to chase new players away. They are just frustrated that the myriad of different things that have been tried haven't worked and they've given up putting a lot of effort into it.

 

The surprising thing (and the part that I only just realized is the real driving force behind all of this is this).

 

95% (and this may be low) of people who have played GSF regularly every week for six months are incredibly precious about what their W/L% is. I've seen people giddily comparing their 70% plus win rates (and I know many are higher). I can't think of anything more laughable than this. It's a number that no one else ever sees, other than you, unless you care to post the link in chat so that other people can see this. And that's why deep down, a lot of you like these clownstompings. You want to balance out the number of tough matches you have with 10 times as many sure-fire wins so that your win percentage looks good. To that, all I can say is the people who are that precious about their win percentage probably have never had a child and don't understand how one operates in a game where an adult competes against a child.

 

Shorter version: LOL at you.

 

Oh noes, I play a PVP game to win. Shame on me. I guess I should intentionally lose so you can feel better about yourself or something. Get over yourself.

 

The biggest problem with this game is that too many people don't understand that a good portion of the GSF matches are effectively like an adult playing chess with a child. If you wipe them out four games in a row, they will quit before playing the fifth game. Plain and simple.

 

Nope. I can name several players on TEH who lost a lot of games who didn't quit, myself included. I was pretty mediocre at this game for a very long time. I didn't quit, and evidently you haven't either. New players don't care that they got roflstomped. They care that they lost. They don't even understand the rest of it well enough to care about it.

 

1. Once I realize a match is a clownstomping, after my first death subsequent to recognizing it's a clownstomping (and over 50% of the time, I can tell before the match even starts), I'm in my strike fighter that subscribers get for free. It's by far the ship I am worst at flying and easiest to be killed in. I still get some kills on people who don't know how to break a missile lock or get away from people who don't know what F3 is for, but on the whole, I'll probably die somewhere in the 4-5 times range and end up with a line that probably looks, at best, somewhere around 0-2 kills and 3-5 assists at best. Every now and then I outperform that, but it's nothing compared to the numbers I would put up with a bomber or a gunship against a team that has no idea what they are doing.

 

Here's me being a jerk, I guess. I've seen you play. I can promise you, you could play your hardest against those teams, because you just aren't that good. It won't matter. If they didn't take the two minutes it takes to read the information provided IN THE GAME, it's not your responsibility to make them feel good about that decision. They were wrong, They screwed up. They deserve to lose for that, so get it over with. Whisper them after the game if you care so much, but good luck with that, because they never have anything pleasant to say when you offer to help.

 

 

I spent $120,000 tonight (because I didn't want to wait around all night for good Samaritans and because I couldn't find anybody who wanted to sell an abandoned guild for a reasonable price) to get six people to help make two new guilds that are literally dedicated to one thing and one thing only.

 

I assume you mean credits and not real money. God, I hope so.

 

Helping new GSF players learn how to play.

 

I'm not looking to form a guild that will eventually morph into a top squadron. I'm not looking to keep anybody in the guild for an extended period of time even. I'm forming the guilds because I can think of no better way to desemminate the VAST amount of GOOD information that would help new players learn VASTLY more quickly than by simply saying in a match "If you are new to GSF and want to learn the basic skills, join (insert name of guild)"

 

Please don't. You don't understand the game well enough yourself to be teaching anyone else how to play it. How do I know this? One, I've seen you play. Two:

 

But at least they will go to that new guild armed with the tools to stick with the game long enough to have a mastered ship and then be able to really have the fun that it is possible to have in this game once your ship is competitive.

 

Mastered ships aren't what makes this game! Have you been actually paying attention to anything that has ever been said to you? That's not how this works. And, considering you've seen players in ships that aren't yet mastered beat the crap out of you, I'd think you would know this by now. The worst part of it is that you probably don't even realize they aren't mastered, because they are so much better than you that you can't tell the difference.

 

 

GSF, despite its limited maps and only two different objectives, is the most diverse thing I can do in SWTOR every day. Moreover, the population among the people who can play is generally speaking nicer and more mature than the population in the other aspects of the endgame part of SWTOR.

 

So what you're saying is, you're still playing in spite of the one-sided games. Gee. That's funny. I thought those made people quit the game forever or something.

 

But mostly it's because I'm happy when I'm helping people who actually need my help. I hate helping people who could help themselves if they'd get off their lazy asses. But when I help someone understand something better that they would have struggled to understand better without help, then I feel fulfilled.

 

There isn't any shortage of information! EVERYTHING they need to understand the game is available on the game or on the forums. A halfassed attempt to find it will get them started. I'm all for helping people who want to learn, but I think you'll find that most of the people putting up 0s across the board have no interest in learning.

Edited October 3, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[NeverEvar]

Damn...i run out of popcorn reading this topic.

 

Most of the time i solo Q. about 80% of my games, On Harbiringer, on TRE on Prego or on many other servers. And if i`m counting right i`m a member of hmmm....5 GSF guilds? Something like that. All of them are guilds open for people of any skill.

 

I flown with you and against on Harbo. I`m not an anonymous face. And i can say that most of things you wrote are incorrect. First:

 

What all of those awesome players are doing is hard not payed worked. Verain broke math, and checked more combinations then anyone and he did not kept that knowledge for himself. Not even for his buddies. He shared and discussed it over and over. Just use search option.

 

Drako, who was addressed in OP, he publishes every build he uses. He offers one on one teaching, analyzing and helping by watching other people videos. He is active in GSF chat, serving advice and help to anyone who asks.

 

Stasiepedia, Ramalina`s posts and many, many more. Are actual things.

 

Check how much time we had to wait for Stasiepedia to get a sticky for it.

 

Nemerus post`s, his actions at Cantina`s are also no small feat.

 

Considering all of that i`m quite convinced that the base condition of GSF is due to there actions. What we got form BW in the last half of a year? 3.0 bugfix, and Sticky for stasiepedia, and some carrot topic on strikes.

 

The most frustrating thing is that we know that all of that knowledge, reaches only to people who are willing to learn, and show some initiative.

 

We are not responsible for bad "first feel of GSF" Lacking tutorial and very early "ah screw it" attitude from BW.

 

Regards

 

Etrii/Etriganek/Iirte

[ShallowHal]

I wrote a guide, for one. I link to the multiple good guides on the forum every chance I get. I offer tips. For a long time, I actively argued against three capping. Do you know why I stopped?

 

I got crap for it. It didn't matter what I did, I got crap for it. Either it was my responsibility to hold a team back, or it was somehow my fault for not being able to play both sides at the same time. I got so much hate and crap in the /gsf channel that, after literally months of putting up with it, I got tired of it. Why should I keep bashing my head against that same wall? That's not fun for me, and evidently it wasn't actually fun for the people I was supposedly "helping" either. Why bother?

 

I know that people have tried things and gotten frustrated and just decided it's not worth the effort. Well, I'm the kind of guy who likes to bang his head into a wall. So I'll stick with it, no matter how little luck I have with it cause I'm having a good time in GSF and I want more people to have a good time too.

[ShallowHal]

Here's me being a jerk, I guess. I've seen you play. I can promise you, you could play your hardest against those teams, because you just aren't that good. It won't matter. If they didn't take the two minutes it takes to read the information provided IN THE GAME, it's not your responsibility to make them feel good about that decision. They were wrong, They screwed up. They deserve to lose for that, so get it over with. Whisper them after the game if you care so much, but good luck with that, because they never have anything pleasant to say when you offer to help.

 

I know I'm not that good. That's why I say they should leave my guild and go join real guilds with real pilots. But if you think you've somehow wounded me, well you go ahead and think that. What you posted says more about you than it ever would me.

 

I assume you mean credits and not real money. God, I hope so.

 

Of course. I don't spend cartel coins on anything except stuff that makes the game more convenient for me to play. Not on GSF, not on levelling, and certainly not on random rolls for fashion.

 

As for the rest of what you said, I know that you fall into the category of pilots that are so precious about their W-L percentage. I would say exactly who you are cause I'm pretty sure, but it doesn't matter to me. If you feel like a superior being because you are a better GSF pilot than me, bully for you. But yes, I am going to teach pilots with zero skills basic skills and then pass them on to someone to teach them advanced skills. And no insult you can come up with can stop me from trying. And no lack of success at finding people interested will stop me.

 

So get used to it.

[DakhathKilrathi]

I know I'm not that good. That's why I say they should leave my guild and go join real guilds with real pilots. But if you think you've somehow wounded me, well you go ahead and think that. What you posted says more about you than it ever would me.

 

 

 

Of course. I don't spend cartel coins on anything except stuff that makes the game more convenient for me to play. Not on GSF, not on levelling, and certainly not on random rolls for fashion.

 

As for the rest of what you said, I know that you fall into the category of pilots that are so precious about their W-L percentage. I would say exactly who you are cause I'm pretty sure, but it doesn't matter to me. If you feel like a superior being because you are a better GSF pilot than me, bully for you. But yes, I am going to teach pilots with zero skills basic skills and then pass them on to someone to teach them advanced skills. And no insult you can come up with can stop me from trying. And no lack of success at finding people interested will stop me.

 

So get used to it.

 

The names I play under are in my signature. And yet you're only "pretty sure"? Yes, I do care about winning. How, exactly, is that a bad thing? It's a PVP game! But I don't know where you think you get the right to imply that I don't care about helping people learn the game. I've done more on that front than you ever will.

 

Good luck helping people, but you're only going to do more harm than good if you spew some of the same crap you've been saying here.

Edited October 3, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[Svarthrafn]

Playing at a professional level against amateurs is a great way to deplete your player base. Imagine if your friendly softball league had a team of professional baseball players in it. Now imagine you were matched up against them every week.

 

The sad truth is that this isn't a principle unique to online pvp. For example, pool leagues assign each player a rating based on their skill level, and give each team a maximum total rating that they may not exceed. (Players found to deliberately tank their rating to subvert this face sanctions). These leagues have implemented these systems because they found that allowing teams to be "stacked" (as they often are in online pvp) actually hurts league participation.

 

I hope Hal has some success in what he is doing. You don't have to be an ace to teach new players how to play the game. Sometimes it takes someone who isn't an ace to give insight and perspective on things you can do as a mediocre pilot when you get face to face with a pilot that you know is better than you.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Svarthrafn

[Archonitek]

Playing at a professional level against amateurs is a great way to deplete your player base. Imagine if your friendly softball league had a team of professional baseball players in it. Now imagine you were matched up against them every week.

 

The sad truth is that this isn't a principle unique to online pvp. For example, pool leagues assign each player a rating based on their skill level, and give each team a maximum total rating that they may not exceed. (Players found to deliberately tank their rating to subvert this face sanctions). These leagues have implemented these systems because they found that allowing teams to be "stacked" (as they often are in online pvp) actually hurts league participation.

 

These are still inbuilt systems that properly group equally skilled players to play against each other to ensure even matches. We either don't have this, or the amount of players queueing at the same time is too low for it to work as intended.

 

I spent $120,000 tonight (because I didn't want to wait around all night for good Samaritans and because I couldn't find anybody who wanted to sell an abandoned guild for a reasonable price) to get six people to help make two new guilds that are literally dedicated to one thing and one thing only.

 

Helping new GSF players learn how to play.

And all the best to Hal. I don't agree with some of your opinions but anyone who puts in effort to help the larger player base in coming to grips with the game gets points in my book.

[Svarthrafn]

These are still inbuilt systems that properly group equally skilled players to play against each other to ensure even matches. We either don't have this, or the amount of players queueing at the same time is too low for it to work as intended.

 

Absolutely right. In order for something like this to work we would need to 1. Somehow have a larger pool of pilots. 2. A way to rate pilots that isn't tied to requisition, perhaps a composite of selected statistics. 3. Find a way to group high powered premades that would otherwise eat up a team's entire rating budget. Perhaps allow the possibility for 8v4's or greater. I'm sure some aces would relish the challenge.

 

Btw; I've been looking for someone from Eclipse squadron for a while now. Any room for a pilot that plays at unpredictable intervals? Imps have been having a tough time of it on Ebon Hawk lately. Seen some Novas on though.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Svarthrafn

[Lendul]

. 2. A way to rate pilots that isn't tied to requisition, perhaps a composite of selected statistics.

This part is somewhat easy. WIn % of the ships in that person's hangar. It is not perfect and would not compensate for aces playing new alts. But it would provide a decent baseline.

[Archonitek]

This part is somewhat easy. WIn % of the ships in that person's hangar. It is not perfect and would not compensate for aces playing new alts. But it would provide a decent baseline.

 

Grouping people based on number of matches in their legacy would also be another baseline that should be pretty easy to implement.

[ShallowHal]

The names I play under are in my signature. And yet you're only "pretty sure"? Yes, I do care about winning. How, exactly, is that a bad thing? It's a PVP game! But I don't know where you think you get the right to imply that I don't care about helping people learn the game. I've done more on that front than you ever will.

 

Good luck helping people, but you're only going to do more harm than good if you spew some of the same crap you've been saying here.

 

We play on different servers. Which is good, since I really don't care about your opinion on me or anything else.

 

However, since you have decided to continue to be a dick about it, I'm going to give you a little information to shut your fat mouth up for awhile.

 

My recruiting efforts today were totally unsuccessful. Part of it was that I was busy with real life stuff and didn't have a lot of time to put into it and part was that the people that I whispered to didn't respond one way or the other. Not with rudeness (your way) or with a kind "Thanks, but no thanks."

 

However, I do have new members in both guilds right now.

 

Today on the Imp side, an excellent pilot asked if he could join the guild.

 

Intially I thought he was you or one of your pals just pulling my leg. But no, he liked what I'm trying to do and wanted to help. Then another excellent pilot put one of his alts on both factions in each guild. So now it's not me trying to teach them the very basics of the game (which I agree is not optimal). It's actual excellent pilots.

 

So if it gives you pleasure to keep targetting me as one of the "bads" who shouldn't be trying to create a welcoming environment for new players because I suck so bad, keep at it. I think you should be able to do what makes you happy and if beating on me makes you happy, who am I to deny you such pleasures. But know this. Other pilots that are, in all likelihood, better pilots than you are on the Ebon Hawk, are interested in what I'm trying to do. If either of them were willing to take the job of guildmaster, I'd gladly give it to them and eat the 120K credits just to give the guild some more street cred. I personally always think a guild benefits when the guildmaster is an expert in whatever portion of the game that guild wants to focus on and that is most definitely not me in any aspect of the game (other than selling green stuff on the GTN, I'm legendary at that). But that's not their interest. They'd just like to create a welcoming environment for new players, something that you and many other players aren't at all interested in based on the negative feedback I get both here and in the game. Maybe it's just a personality conflict or you just are really worried that there might be fewer clownstomp matches on my server someday and you consider it a personal affront. Either way, I don't care what you think is the right way to play the game, nor what you think of my slowly evolving abilities. You play the way you want to play and think you're right. Free country. But I'm gonna play the way I want to play because I think I'm right. And there ain't a thing you can do to stop it.

[ShallowHal]

This part is somewhat easy. WIn % of the ships in that person's hangar. It is not perfect and would not compensate for aces playing new alts. But it would provide a decent baseline.

 

All that measures is the number of tilted matches a player has participate in, by bulk.

 

There is a player on Harbinger who I will not name who is widely acknowledged to be a horrible frontrunner. Unlike most of the good pilots (of which he is one), if one side is getting the better of the other, he will *always* switch to the side that is having the easier time. And when he loses, he will almost always claim that the only reason his team lost is because the other team focused him the entire match, as if that strategy weren't valid. Heck it's a compliment to any good pilot for another team to feel that you are such a threat that you are worth that amount of attention. But because people are so damn precious about their W-L%, there are people who will do literally anything to avoid losing much. Including queueing four man supergroups every single time they play, never solo queueing unless everybody else is solo queueing for an event, and transferring to the winning side rather than stick it out on the losing side.

 

The truly good pilots don't do this. They always switch factions to try to balance out the matches. The other pilots who refuse to do this are frankly demeaning themselves and the esteem that others hold them in by putting their selfish interests over the interests of the game as a whole. And I will tell you that a lot of the other good pilots who do switch factions are talking about you guys who refuse to break up your supergroups in unflattering terms (the word most often used starts with an h).

 

And the interests of the game as a whole are definitely served by doing whatever it takes to increase the population of this niche within a niche game.

[FlavivsAetivs]

If you all are so sick of pre-mades then why don't you come to Jedi Cov?

 

Sure we have veteran players who group together but they're not using teamspeak and using coordinated hyperspace beacon drops to spawn a whole 8-man op on capture point the other team is trying to take. The people who group here just do it to play together, and if the teams are mismatched it's usually not impossible to come out with a good score or even win.

 

Granted it's not as active as harbinger but GSF queue pops like every 5-15 minutes from about 11 AM to at least 2 AM EST every day (never stayed up past 2 so I wouldn't know). Last night it was popping in seconds. It would be nice to see more good Imps and pubs too.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited October 4, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[Archonitek]

If you all are so sick of pre-mades then why don't you come to Jedi Cov?

 

Sure we have veteran players who group together but they're not using teamspeak and using coordinated hyperspace beacon drops to spawn a whole 8-man op on capture point the other team is trying to take. The people who group here just do it to play together, and if the teams are mismatched it's usually not impossible to come out with a good score or even win.

 

Granted it's not as active as harbinger but GSF queue pops like every 5-15 minutes from about 11 AM to at least 2 AM EST every day (never stayed up past 2 so I wouldn't know). Last night it was popping in seconds. It would be nice to see more good Imps and pubs too.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

I think we've moved beyond the original topic and turned it into a 'what's wrong with GSF?' thread as these threads tend to turn into. More finger pointing though.

[DakhathKilrathi]

We play on different servers. Which is good, since I really don't care about your opinion on me or anything else.

 

I play on Harbinger under Zyrieas. You've seen me there.

 

However, since you have decided to continue to be a dick about it, I'm going to give you a little information to shut your fat mouth up for awhile.

 

Oooh, insults now!

 

My recruiting efforts today were totally unsuccessful. Part of it was that I was busy with real life stuff and didn't have a lot of time to put into it and part was that the people that I whispered to didn't respond one way or the other. Not with rudeness (your way) or with a kind "Thanks, but no thanks."

 

However, I do have new members in both guilds right now.

 

Today on the Imp side, an excellent pilot asked if he could join the guild.

 

Intially I thought he was you or one of your pals just pulling my leg. But no, he liked what I'm trying to do and wanted to help. Then another excellent pilot put one of his alts on both factions in each guild. So now it's not me trying to teach them the very basics of the game (which I agree is not optimal). It's actual excellent pilots.

 

So if it gives you pleasure to keep targetting me as one of the "bads" who shouldn't be trying to create a welcoming environment for new players because I suck so bad, keep at it. I think you should be able to do what makes you happy and if beating on me makes you happy, who am I to deny you such pleasures. But know this. Other pilots that are, in all likelihood, better pilots than you are on the Ebon Hawk, are interested in what I'm trying to do. If either of them were willing to take the job of guildmaster, I'd gladly give it to them and eat the 120K credits just to give the guild some more street cred. I personally always think a guild benefits when the guildmaster is an expert in whatever portion of the game that guild wants to focus on and that is most definitely not me in any aspect of the game (other than selling green stuff on the GTN, I'm legendary at that). But that's not their interest. They'd just like to create a welcoming environment for new players, something that you and many other players aren't at all interested in based on the negative feedback I get both here and in the game. Maybe it's just a personality conflict or you just are really worried that there might be fewer clownstomp matches on my server someday and you consider it a personal affront. Either way, I don't care what you think is the right way to play the game, nor what you think of my slowly evolving abilities. You play the way you want to play and think you're right. Free country. But I'm gonna play the way I want to play because I think I'm right. And there ain't a thing you can do to stop it.

 

Get this through your head: I don't care what you do with your time. I'd rather you didn't spread a bunch of misinformation, but it sounds like you've got that taken care of. My problem with you is that you think it's okay to attack players who have done nothing to deserve it because you think they aren't doing enough to make sure you enjoy the game or some other such nonsense.

 

Here's the type of wonderful conversation you have to look forward to, if people ever start thinking you owe them something: (language warning, if you care about that) http://i.imgur.com/93WKpjS.png

 

I used to get crap like that once a week. At least. It quit (mostly) when I quit trying to get people to listen. Still wondering why I don't care anymore?

Edited October 4, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[caederon]

I encourage everyone in this thread to turn their Hostility knob down from 11 to like... maybe 6 or so? Perhaps you should re-target your cannons at Bioware for failing to provide adequate means to keep everyone happy consistently flying in matches reflective of their skill level.

 

Despite the philosophical divide, we all care about GSF enough to bother with these sorts of discussions. We want the game to persist, and have different ways of going about furthering that goal. Some try to nurture new pilots like baby ducklings and lead them through the wilderness, some write them a textbook and tell them to get reading, both of which are unselfish choices that are beyond any obligation of someone playing a game.

 

There is no challenge in GSF that is insurmountable.

There is no premade that is unbeatable.

There is no single player than can lay waste to a whole server.

There is no tactic that cannot be countered.

There is no behavior you can control except your own.

 

I still see only one true solution to the problem of skill disparity, and that is for Bioware to implement a lobby for custom matchmaking so that organized team events would be trivially simple to establish and conduct. It would keep the adults out of the kiddie pool, where they could learn to swim unimpeded.

 

I also believe that Bioware would respond to money, and if some sort of crowdfunding effort to pay for a custom lobby was conducted, they could cover the cost and profit.

 

All efforts to help new players are good.

 

Despon

[btbarrett]

Can we just let this thread die? Nothing productive is coming out of it any more: it is just vitriol. We have an extremely small community, as such, toxicity in the community is particularly potent. Personally, I see this thread and it just makes me want to stop queuing. It is the exact same reason I don't like doing ranked ground PvP: I just don't want to deal with the toxicity. Please, please, PLEASE just let this thread die. Everyone has made their respective points and no one is changing their viewpoint at this juncture. Further discourse is just unnecessary. Edited October 4, 2015 by btbarrett

[FlavivsAetivs]

I think we've moved beyond the original topic and turned it into a 'what's wrong with GSF?' thread as these threads tend to turn into. More finger pointing though.

 

Not pointing fingers, just saying the environment on Jedi Cov is far more casual. I've noticed quite a few from Harbinger coming back to Jedi Cov precisely because of that.

Edited October 4, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[Ramalina]

I encourage everyone in this thread to turn their Hostility knob down from 11 to like... maybe 6 or so? Perhaps you should re-target your cannons at Bioware for failing to provide adequate means to keep everyone happy consistently flying in matches reflective of their skill level.

 

Seriously. If you REALLY want to wallow in the forum-sewers navigate up one level and then dive on into the one labeled PvP.

 

Verain is blunt and at times not very polite but there's a line he doesn't cross where while he may tell people, "that's completely wrong and a really dumb idea," he doesn't get into name calling and personal attacks.

 

Don't make him have to get up and work to keep his, "most despicable," title. Really, when it comes to despicable he's got the GSF forum covered. We don't need more and we don't really want more either.

 

If you're just incredibly bored with GSF forum content make a wall-of-text epic on how to make Interdiction Drive a meta-worthy component.

[Lendul]

Verain is blunt and at times not very polite but there's a line he doesn't cross where while he may tell people, "that's completely wrong and a really dumb idea," he doesn't get into name calling and personal attacks.

 

This is just not true he can and will cross the line. He is a sore loser and will snap at anyone including Drak when it is happening. He is the "only" non bot on my ignore list and for good reason. When he came over to The Harbinger solo queuing and not getting carried and peeled for by Drak and Sanic he would constantly berate his team. Drak even said over his stream that he has to be exceedingly nice to compensate for Verain's despicableness. And all the while it seemed like he was explaining a foreign concept to him. Since there is no questioning Verain's intelligence that makes it all that much the worse.