Thank you for the 12xp opt out crystal!!

[SelinaH]

Majority is not an absolute term.

If I say that a majority of the players like the boost, that only means that there are more players who like the boost than dislike the boost.

That's not actually what "majority" means. The word you're looking for is "plurality."

 

Regardless, I don't think it's unreasonable to have the XP disabler available from level 1. It may not affect you or me, but the starter planets are critical to a new player's first impression of the game.

[SgtJeremy]

That's not actually what "majority" means. The word you're looking for is "plurality."

 

Regardless, I don't think it's unreasonable to have the XP disabler available from level 1. It may not affect you or me, but the starter planets are critical to a new player's first impression of the game.

 

I am pretty sure those are synonyms. You literally corrected his word with a similar word.

 

^^this.

Starter planets were fast levelling anyways.

And I hate fleet

 

Oh but it is, anything to do with any sort of bonus exp is downright wrong.

Edited May 5, 2015 by SgtJeremy

[SteelieCZ]

I'm curious as to why you feel that having 12x XP for the first 7 levels ruins the experience for you.

 

And how would it affect you if it was implemented? I'm no developer but I don't see how copy-pasting an NPC to a few different locations can be complicated and time consuming.

 

The idea presented is a valid, simple suggestion. I honestly don't understand how this escalated into an argument such as this.

[OddballEasyEight]

That's not actually what "majority" means. The word you're looking for is "plurality."

 

Regardless, I don't think it's unreasonable to have the XP disabler available from level 1. It may not affect you or me, but the starter planets are critical to a new player's first impression of the game.

 

Are you really going to argue semantics?

It's perfectly clear what my point is.

 

And how would it affect you if it was implemented? I'm no developer but I don't see how copy-pasting an NPC to a few different locations can be complicated and time consuming.

 

The idea presented is a valid, simple suggestion. I honestly don't understand how this escalated into an argument such as this.

 

I'm going to assume that you just read my last post and didn't read any of the others I made since I've already answered this before.

[SelinaH]

I am pretty sure those are synonyms. You literally corrected his word with a similar word.

Generally speaking, a majority is over 50% of the whole. A plurality is the largest segment, but may not on its own be more than 50% of the whole. If you have contingents of 40%, 30%, 20% and 10% of the population, the 40% is a plurality, but not a majority.

 

They are not necessarily the same thing.

 

Either way, it only matters if you subscribe to the idea that a minority of the playerbase should be ignored even if the possibility exists for both a dramatic (and potentially negative) shift to gameplay as well as a fix which is likely (but not, of course, guaranteed) to take a minimal share of development resources.

 

Edit:

Are you really going to argue semantics?

It's perfectly clear what my point is.

When the semantic content of your post seems to be one of the main thrusts of your argument, yes.

 

It's unclear to me now whether you believe that most of the playerbase (i.e., 50+%) asked for/used previously/are currently using the 12x XP boost, or whether you're simply asserting that more players like it than not (with the remainder likely not caring much either way).

Edited May 5, 2015 by SelinaH

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

redacted Edited May 5, 2015 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

With this one i disagree a lot. People who doesnt know about this 12xp buff, might automatically take it as standard and will have no idea it is buff that can be turned off. Some information mail should be available cause i think after month or so there will not be much active info about it.

 

This was always my primary concerned with it being on by default, especially since there is nothing in game (other than the gold XP bar) telling you it's happening. A person who subbed today would have no idea anything was applied, much less the convoluted opt out method...

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

The 4th event gave people a droid and nothing more... and the servers weren't full until the 12x XP started.

 

Servers are usually full on day when new content drops. What they look like in a week or two will tell the difference it made.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I've answered this before and I really can't be bothered to explain why it would be a bad idea one more time.

 

Then I can't be bothered to take you seriously.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I can tell from your codecending tone that I'm never going to get through to you, so this will be my last answer in this conversation.

 

Pot calling kettle much?

[TheSeventhJedi]

I'm curious as to why you feel that having 12x XP for the first 7 levels ruins the experience for you.

 

Show me where I said ruined. It's a mild detraction, but it's still a detraction. Show me how copy/pasting a vendor on starter worlds, making the crystals BoL, or making the program opt-in instead of opt-out would ruin the game for you. You're crusading against a convenience man.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Will it make a huge difference? Probably not.

Will it make A difference? Yes. Yes it will.

I'm not playing a new alt until 12XP is over anyway, but it seems like there are so many options that could have made it possible to opt-out at level one that I can't understand why people are arguing against it. Worried that the devs will spend time reading this thread (ha!) and get confused about what people like and don't like?

 

Agreed. This is my issue with it. They gave an opt out, but in an incredibly lazy and not well thought out method. This IMO mirrors the lack of for site on the way 3.2 had a date gap. Is it OK to have a gate like that, sure, is the way they did it correct, not even close. They have great intentions but almost always fail to implement properly or fully think through potential issues.

[TravelersWay]

I have never had anything against bonus xp, but I have never wanted to be forced to participate in the event with everyone else. Thank you for letting us opt out of the experience with a crystal on the fleet. I would have been happy to pay for the option to opt out with cartel coins, but you were kind enough to give it to us for free. It is hard to describe how wonderful it is to be able to level at a more normal pace rather than zip along at 12xp.

 

forced xp events was the only thing about the game I did not like, but it was a big issue for me and a lot of other players. Again, thank you for the option to opt out. I am currently looking into ways to opt out as soon as possible after I create a new character.

 

I don't disagree that it's nice of them to finally implement an xp boost nullifier, however I would have to strongly disagree about being willing to pay for it. In no way, shape, or form should I, as a subscriber, should ever have to pay an additional sum (either real money or in-game credits) in order to play the game normally as originally designed. This most absolutely should have been free, and there should never be a charge for playing the game normally.

[OddballEasyEight]

When the semantic content of your post seems to be one of the main thrusts of your argument, yes.

 

It's unclear to me now whether you believe that most of the playerbase (i.e., 50+%) asked for/used previously/are currently using the 12x XP boost, or whether you're simply asserting that more players like it than not (with the remainder likely not caring much either way).

 

The people currently using the 12x XP boost includes both those who like it and those who don't care either way.

The people using the opt out crystal would be the ones disliking it.

And I'm saying that the people not using the opt out crystal are in an actual majority.

Thus the people using the crystal are in the minority.

 

point here being that catering to a minority (the people using it) would be illogical (when it comes to making changes to where the vendors are located or to send out a mail with the opt-out item to everyone).

 

I find it very interesting, though, that not once... not once, has anyone commented on my suggestion of making the item BoL instead of BoP so it could be sent to alts.

Apparantly this isn't so much about having a solution that is easy to implement as it is that the opt-out crowd should have been catered to in a much bigger way.

[OddballEasyEight]

Servers are usually full on day when new content drops. What they look like in a week or two will tell the difference it made.

 

Eh no.

I've never seen the server status as FULL since launch.

 

We're not talking "oh there's many people online today"... we're talking about the actual server status of FULL with a queue to get in.

[OddballEasyEight]

Show me where I said ruined. It's a mild detraction, but it's still a detraction. Show me how copy/pasting a vendor on starter worlds, making the crystals BoL, or making the program opt-in instead of opt-out would ruin the game for you. You're crusading against a convenience man.

 

Well you claimed that you wouldn't level another alt until the 12x XP was over... that sounds pretty much like the experience would be ruined for you.

 

And since you can use the crystal from lvl 7, I'd have to assume that the part from lvl 1-7 would be the part that ruins it for you.

As for the rest, you should just check my previous posts as I've commented on all of those...

(and especially the opt-in option makes it clear that some of you guys still seem to think that most people don't want to use 12x XP)

[SelinaH]

point here being that catering to a minority (the people using it) would be illogical (when it comes to making changes to where the vendors are located or to send out a mail with the opt-out item to everyone).

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. I believe catering to a minority is fine when the cost of doing so is likely to be negligible compared to the benefits reaped in either player goodwill or cold, hard cash.

I find it very interesting, though, that not once... not once, has anyone commented on my suggestion of making the item BoL instead of BoP so it could be sent to alts.

Apparantly this isn't so much about having a solution that is easy to implement as it is that the opt-out crowd should have been catered to in a much bigger way.

It was brought up when concerns were noted about the vendor's placement on Fleet on the PTS. While this would certainly be a solution for veteran players and those who keep up with the latest game news, it still doesn't help brand-new players creating their first character.

 

Edit:

 

Quoting myself, from April 21.

From the way things look on the PTS, the people who don't want to outlevel the starter planets might still be unhappy, as the XP inhibitor item is currently BoP and seems to only be available on Fleet. At least if it were Bind to Legacy, players could preemptively stick a few in legacy storage for new alts.

Edited May 6, 2015 by SelinaH

[OddballEasyEight]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. I believe catering to a minority is fine when the cost of doing so is likely to be negligible compared to the benefits reaped in either player goodwill or cold, hard cash.

 

There's catering and then there's catering.

They've already catered to the minority by including the crystal and placing it on the fleet.

They could have done it better, sure.

But the point here is that the minority are now asking, some even demanding, that they move that vendor to the starter planets.

That's a bit of an effort for a minority that really isn't affected by the 12x boost in the first place (as it makes hardly any difference on the starter planets).

Sure, you can claim that it isn't hard for BW to put vendors there (although in truth, none of us know how much work that entails), but it WOULD incur some downtime on the servers for patching... and that would affect the majority... the ones who don't care about the vendor.

Then there's the people saying they should send it out in a mail. Meaning they'd send out an item that will be used by the minority, to every single player in the game.

Seems like overkill to me.

Not to mention the problems of cluttering up the mailbox even more than it already is and that they'd have to implement some way of stopping those mails once the event is over.

 

It was brought up when concerns were noted about the vendor's placement on Fleet on the PTS. While this would certainly be a solution for veteran players and those who keep up with the latest game news, it still doesn't help brand-new players creating their first character.

 

Sure.

But that brand-new player is either here for the 12x XP or he won't even know it's on (which is a whole other problem, but not part of this discussion) in which case, he wouldn't even know to look for the crystal and if he found it by accident, wouldn't know what it's for.

Only way you could get someone new to know that the 12x event was on would be to shove a warning pop-up in their face, telling them that it's on.

Something that would bother quite alot of non-new players (I'm still getting annoyed by all the stronghold and costume designer popups I'm getting on my new characters).

 

Making it BoL instead of BoP would be the path of least resistance for everyone.

Bioware wouldn't have to make any major changes in the game by either moving vendors around or scripting mails that only get sent between certain dates. Players wouldn't have to wait until lvl 7 to start using the crystal.

New players wouldn't be able to do it, sure, but then like I said, most new players wouldn't even know the event is on and probably won't notice a difference before they get to fleet anyway, since you won't really "overlevel" the starter content more than you'd usually do...

It's not like you'll be lvl 25 before getting off Hutta, you know?

Edited May 6, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[SelinaH]

Then there's the people saying they should send it out in a mail. Meaning they'd send out an item that will be used by the minority, to every single player in the game.

Seems like overkill to me.

Not to mention the problems of cluttering up the mailbox even more than it already is and that they'd have to implement some way of stopping those mails once the event is over.

This is where I have an issue with your argument. Many of your posts on this topic have a "So go to Fleet -- what's the big deal?" vibe to them, yet clicking to delete a single email is apparently too annoying for mailing the item (along with some form of 12x XP notification) to be considered a viable option.

Sure.

But that brand-new player is either here for the 12x XP or he won't even know it's on (which is a whole other problem, but not part of this discussion) in which case, he wouldn't even know to look for the crystal and if he found it by accident, wouldn't know what it's for.

Only way you could get someone new to know that the 12x event was on would be to shove a warning pop-up in their face, telling them that it's on.

Something that would bother quite alot of non-new players (I'm still getting annoyed by all the stronghold and costume designer popups I'm getting on my new characters).

The mail option would solve the notification issue as well as the problem of item acquisition for new characters. It's certainly not my preferred option, but I feel that the BoL option would bypass the very players who might need it most.

New players wouldn't be able to do it, sure, but then like I said, most new players wouldn't even know the event is on and probably won't notice a difference before they get to fleet anyway, since you won't really "overlevel" the starter content more than you'd usually do...

It's not like you'll be lvl 25 before getting off Hutta, you know?

There have been a few posts from players noting that they were badly overleveled by the time they reached Fleet -- to the point where they were unable to use the Group Finder to queue for Black Talon/Esseles. Not a big deal for those of us who have the dialogue virtually memorized, but potentially damaging to a new player's impression of game pacing and difficulty, storyline flow and general QoL.

[Rabenschwinge]

Also please put a vendor selling the crystal on the starter planets so people can opt out immediately if wanted since those toons can't get to the fleet yet.

 

That would certainly be nice.

[OddballEasyEight]

This is where I have an issue with your argument. Many of your posts on this topic have a "So go to Fleet -- what's the big deal?" vibe to them, yet clicking to delete a single email is apparently too annoying for mailing the item (along with some form of 12x XP notification) to be considered a viable option.

 

And similarly, this is where I have an issue with many of the arguments posted here... You seem to fail to realise that clicking to delete a single email would be an inconvenience for many more people than going to the fleet to get the crystal.

There are more people that don't want the crystal than there are that do want it.

 

The mail option would solve the notification issue as well as the problem of item acquisition for new characters. It's certainly not my preferred option, but I feel that the BoL option would bypass the very players who might need it most.

 

New players certainly can't be counted as the ones who need it most.

Most new players would be here to take part in the 12x XP event (as it seems to be one of the major drawing points now. Servers having FULL status after the event started for the first time since launch).

Also, a new player wouldn't notice this until after the starter planets anyway since you can't really overlevel the starter planet. You'll be maby lvl 14-15 instead of 12-13 when going to fleet.

And by that time, the surely will have noticed the event being active. (either by the talk in chat, by the fact that they get loads more for class missions than other missions or the fact that their xp bar is glowing and a popup tells them they're currently getting 12x for class missions).

 

There have been a few posts from players noting that they were badly overleveled by the time they reached Fleet -- to the point where they were unable to use the Group Finder to queue for Black Talon/Esseles. Not a big deal for those of us who have the dialogue virtually memorized, but potentially damaging to a new player's impression of game pacing and difficulty, storyline flow and general QoL.

 

You can use the group finder to queue for BT/E up to lvl 15.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone is above 15 when arriving at fleet unless they have done heroics more than once on the starter planets.

Also, most completely new players wouldn't use the GF to find BT/E (as they wouldn't even know there were "dungeons" at that low a level or at that point in the story)... they'd run into it going to the shuttle for the capitol planet... and at that point, you won't be restricted by level.

You know... the way we used to do it... (and I don't remember any complaints about missing BT/E back then because there wasn't a GF)

 

These all seem like very construed and far-out arguments of extreme cases...

Edited May 6, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[jstankaroslo]

I bet my lightsaber that you worked harder posting all this BS here, than it would be for devs to put a crystal on starter planets

[OddballEasyEight]

I bet my lightsaber that you worked harder posting all this BS here, than it would be for devs to put a crystal on starter planets

 

Well at least i didn't inconvenience the entire playerbase with a few hours downtime for patching...

[jstankaroslo]

Well at least i didn't inconvenience the entire playerbase with a few hours downtime for patching...

 

this is the first time I find myself in agreement with you in this thread

[OddballEasyEight]

this is the first time I find myself in agreement with you in this thread

 

And that's the point I've been trying to make.

Sure, moving the vendors might be as easy as a few clicks.

But it would take a patch to implement and that would inconvenience the entire playerbase.

And for what? Just so that the ones who don't want 12x XP can get it at lvl 1 instead of 7?

Do you see how that looks?

 

You get to lvl 7 really quickly (with or without the 12x) and the trip to fleet isn't wasted as you can pick up crew skills there and get a head start on gathering while you're finishing off the rest of the starter planet.