Raansu Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'm glad this thread got posted again, wins is really is the simplest and easiest solution to boost ranked pvp activity and severely reduce the trolls, hostility, queue syncing etc. And every third post is from someone who clearly does not even do ranked and think everything is fine despite sliding participation from season to season and somehow like the way things currently are. The only explanation is they currently abuse the system to their benefit or really are that ignorant. Rewards should go to people who play pvp and queue a lot, not the people who play the queue system. Solo queue is not competitive nor a measure of skill at all, so stop pretending it is and make it based on wins. Keep your ELO team rating system. The rewards become even more meaningless at that point. If they do that then you may as well remove the solo queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 As opposed to what happens now? "What is happening now?" I should say. 1:0 to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChimaera Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The rewards become even more meaningless at that point. If they do that then you may as well remove the solo queue. They are meaningless now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 We all know solo ranked is a joke, with trolls and bads and the horrible rating system. i think this should be scrapped for solo ranked and base the end of season rewards just on the number of wins alone. If you want people to participate, base the rewards on wins. Right now people don't want to queue because of how the rating system is right now. Group ranked is the only working form of competitive pvp right now, because you can choose who gets in your team, you can talk to them on teamspeak etc...You basically have control. Solo ranked, you have no control over. You could get 200 wins and still have a lower rating than someone with 50 wins. Which is why i think Solo ranked rewards should be based on wins and participation. The rewards for solo should be good but the rewards for group ranked should be better. Of course, people on different servers would have different populations of people queuing for solo ranked. And right now people transfer servers all the time for group ranked to get more competition (good for you Bioware, you get more money!). It makes zero sense to have different servers on the same solo ranked leaderboard when every server is different. Right now, you could be the best most amazing player on your server, but there will be few people queuing, the pops will be too long, and you may never get into the top 50 for your class or whatever, because people on other servers have a higher rating due to more competition etc... Solo ranked leaderboards should be split on each server. The top 150 players with the most wins should get rewards, and thats it. Because if there was a top 3, you will never get the chance to reach those rewards just because someone is queuing 24/7, but the top 150 will give you a bit of a chance to be eligible for rewards. Losses would mean nothing, because it's unfair if you keep losing to trolls and undergeared people, so it won't affect your rating. This is a workable solution... Hopefully the Devs and Community managers still want to read suggestions after the last few days of dramas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 They are meaningless now. Not really. There's a lot of luck in solo's but it takes a fair bit of skill to carry people as well. Aside from the obvious queue syncers, the legit ones constantly getting high rating are actually good players. Basing rewards on wins just means any **** player can get them even if they lost 150 matches but still managed to win 50 to get say the basic rewards. At that point its just stupid and its no longer ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow-Canadian Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I can't say I have faith in Bioware to turn ranked PVP around when even posting concept art of season 5 rewards is a massive undertaking for the PVP team..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChimaera Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Not really. There's a lot of luck in solo's but it takes a fair bit of skill to carry people as well. Aside from the obvious queue syncers, the legit ones constantly getting high rating are actually good players. Basing rewards on wins just means any **** player can get them even if they lost 150 matches but still managed to win 50 to get say the basic rewards. At that point its just stupid and its no longer ranked. Encouraging queuing and reducing the trolls / griefers is all the benefit that is required at this point. A system that benefits the extreme minority of the game does not cut it. I would prefer a lot of things happened to pvp. Everyone gets normalized stats, everyone bolstered to the same rating level of gear. No grinding for gear, earning only comms for vanity items or decorations. Rewarding people for playing, you know having fun. A system that generates equality and does not have systems that the dev's cant even tell is broken even though we can. The 450 people or whatever out of 1 million active players (im sure someone has the proper numbers) that got the tier 1 speeder for season 4, why should they matter? All I saw was complaints on how this is garbage and this is a reskin and theres no pops and I cant get a team together. This is all broken. Stop saying that the system works if you play enough, its not good enough. Not Good Enough. Something needs to change and leaving it the same is SITLL not working. The only reason I am fully behind wins as a system is because it takes the least development time (the system is exactly the same as ranked pre-season) because bioware clearly puts minimal support into pvp. So the easiest quickest solution to breathe some life into it is wins. Edited May 9, 2015 by xChimaera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkii_boy Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) I'm in favor of this, I always felt held back to queue up for solo ranked because of past experiences where people complain about literally everything they perceive to be a mistake "you suck", "l2p", rather than giving constructive critisism and helping out a somewhat inexperienced PvPer. Although I have fully augmented, minmaxed t1 gear with t2 wep I'm awfully afraid to become a liability and ruin my teams rating. Edited May 9, 2015 by Sharkii_boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsenior Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 If you have a higher rating do you get queued with higher rated team mates? That would get you into teams with similarly skilled players and avoid undergeared or bad players. Or is the population too low to enable a system like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainamoinen Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 They are meaningless now. They obviously aren't, or people wouldn't be whining that they can't get high enough rating to earn them and that they should get the best rewards just for queueing until they've accumulated enough random wins no matter how bad they are. The point of prizes in competitive PvP are to reward the best players, and give them bragging rights. Awarding it on participation (which is what number of wins equates to) invalidates that, and so is wrong. The current ranking system is far from perfect, but it's the best semi-objective measure we have of who's better than who, so it's what merit-based PvP rewards should be awarded on. I hope they can sort out cross-server, or megaservers, and boost populations to get enough competition for the ranking system to function - but I've given up waiting on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldon Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Actually, i agree with Cryyc....he's done nothing wrong. There's nothing against the TOS that state you "you must be fully ranked geared in ranked warzones". With 23 wins and 1031 rating? I wouldn't expect many more losses than 40. You realise some really good fully geared players can win 300 games and still get a 1031 rating because of the trolls, afkers, leavers etc.... Fully ranked geared? No, no one is expecting that. You're OK with him queueing in level ELEVEN GREEN ITEMS?? Guess you're equally as bad as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChimaera Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 If you have a higher rating do you get queued with higher rated team mates? That would get you into teams with similarly skilled players and avoid undergeared or bad players. Or is the population too low to enable a system like this? This is how the system currently works. The Dev's have not confirmed this but I am positive this is how it works based on 4 seasons worth of garbage. You queue with 1200 rating. The system will try to find people +/- 50 rating and group them with you. If people are not found the rating will expand +/- 100 and increase on intervals until you get a full 4. At that point it will try to find a team to match against you using your average rating using the same +/- 50 rating intervals. This is how higher rating solo players in voice chat queue sync consistently and always get on the same team. Then the system will slowly expand until if finds a lower rating team to play against. The system also does not take into account rating disparity basically at all. It is built on number of matches played, the more you play the less you gain or lose. So if you have played 14 games and have 1300 rating and lose against a 2500 team, the system will not take in account your teammates nor who you played against, you will still lose 25 rating. It is also why the first 10 matched mean more than any of the other matches that you play in the season, its poor design. It also means that trolls, under geared players, bad players all will get thrown on the lower team almost 100% of the time. This is especially where the system fails to provide any reasonable chance at beating the higher ranked team. The only way this system works is if you have a very large population playing like league of legends where ELO can be used to properly segment and divide teams. ELO might be the worst rating system possible for SWTOR at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChimaera Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 They obviously aren't, or people wouldn't be whining that they can't get high enough rating to earn them and that they should get the best rewards just for queueing until they've accumulated enough random wins no matter how bad they are. I didn't say people did not want them, but having them does not really mean very much. Most people do not get these rewards from playing a ton of pvp. They get them by getting some lucky initial 10 games and never queue again, gaming the queue system, trolling the other faction while your friends queue on the other side. Most of the people I talk to would like those rewards yes. But they also do not want to deal with the queue system, the abuse, the trolls, the queue system. It is a byproduct of the currently system being terrible and the pvp rewards not really requiring top level pvp to acquire. Its about who you know and how you abuse the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Garmonbozia Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Frankly, most of the time the best players aren't being rewarded anyway. The players who are willing to go right to the brink of cheating, without technically going over, are being rewarded. And in some cases, those who are actively breaking TOS and for example, having someone else play their character to get a good ranking because their 'ping is bad,' when their guild knows it's because they're sucking. (Though really, you'd think BW could tell the difference when someone logs in from Australia and the US in the same day.) In truth, there's nothing competitive about ranked with some players going in with just the tools provided by the game itself, and others going in using sync queues or macro scripts. You can typically tell who's using them too, by the way they move when they use an ability, since so many are chained together on one button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamiCtagez Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I can't say I have faith in Bioware to turn ranked PVP around when even posting concept art of season 5 rewards is a massive undertaking for the PVP team..... What is this PvP team you're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) That might just be the best idea ever posted in this forum (not being sarcastic). It would elimnate that people stop queueing on bad streaks or give up all together because they don't see any chance of turning around their ratings. I think there would be less whining about PvE heroes and trolls too - because they would only affect the match you're currently in. BW had to be clear on how many wins we need for each tier before the season starts though. I'm leaning toward 20, 30, 40. I guess the negative side would be that people would feel less guilty for entering in less optimal gear and figured they could take the chance. Then again, that's already happening. Edited May 10, 2015 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 It would elimnate that people stop queueing on bad streaks or give up all together because they don't see any chance of turning around their ratings. Those who are interested in Ratings, yes. But those who are constantly owned = don't win games because the other side is so much more dominant - those people will still stop queuing and give up altogether. The problem will merely shift from - bad ratings being the reason to stop queuzing or to give up altogether to - no (or too few) wins being the reason to stop queuzing or to give up altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChimaera Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Those who are interested in Ratings, yes. But those who are constantly owned = don't win games because the other side is so much more dominant - those people will still stop queuing and give up altogether. The problem will merely shift from - bad ratings being the reason to stop queuing or to give up altogether to - no (or too few) wins being the reason to stop queuing or to give up altogether. Have you played a lot of pre-season? I used to play a minimum of 10 games a day and this didn't happen. I see the same bad people queue up all the time and yes their win rate was probably 15-25% but they will win eventually due to fully random teams. Pre-season was quite healthy despite the class disparity. Generally people had fun and you could reasonably expect a queue to pop throughout the entire day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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