So Bioware, about people bypassing the locked part on Ziost to fight the OP Boss etc.

[NinjaApacHe]

One of the things we tried to be clear about with the Ravagers is that we are serious about handling exploits. With that exploit, the Ravagers we were open about our process and the action we were taking. For this issue with Ziost, we are going to do the same.

 

If a player is bypassing the environment to access an area they should not be able to, and then killing a boss to get loot they should also not have access to, we absolutely consider this an exploit. We are investigating this issue right now, and will be actioning any player who participates, or has participated, in this exploit.

 

If you ever hear of or find something that can be exploited, do not test it yourself. Please notify us immediately and privately. Some of you brought this issue to our attention on PTS and we thank you for that. We closed that opening, but it seems that there is another method of getting into the area.

 

We would also like to thank those of you who did not exploit and who have brought this to our attention. Our goal will always be to create a safe and fair environment for our players.

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

Great! Thank you!

[Khiriath]

There are no other "hidden spots" anywhere. Sure, you can jump around on rocks and maybe get to a zone via a path not really intended, but it isn't "hidden" since you can get to it in other, easier ways.

 

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows the difference between exploring and circumventing a block into an area.

 

Battle of Ilum in the caves there is a hidden area that does not appear on map. Inside is a chest, items needed for bonus boss, and various other things.

 

And again for people summoned to the area they would have even less knowledge.

[The_Wulff]

For everybody claiming "but exploring" is the reason, there is a proper way that this should have been handled. If you "fell" into the area that you saw the wall blocking off you quick travel out of the area and submit an in game bug report telling where the hole is. If you were ported there and realized you were in the closed off area after you got there you port out and submit a report. I assure you if the innocents did what they were supposed to as outlined in the code of conduct and TOS they would not be banned. If they did get caught up in the swinging of the ban hammer they could then call CS and point to the documented report of the bug report and show that it was accidental. The bans can be repealed with documentation, it just takes someone updating a flag on your account.

 

The ones that did not report the issue and just explored did gain an advantage over the rest of the player base. They now know the layout of the area. This may not seem like much of an advantage but being able to report back to your friends and/or guild where you need to go to beat the boss to be the world's first (in the age of BW paying to fly out people to cantina events) does give an unfair advantage.

[Halinalle]

Exploring: get endurance datacron on Hoth

Not exploring: die and respawn and you end up stuck under Coratanni's room.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Halinalle

[idnewton]

Bioware the only acceptable punishment for people who have used this exploit is the following:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. 10 level reduction for all characters in account

 

This is the only way people will understand exploiting is not acceptable, simply giving people 1 - 30 days ban will not stop them. All exploiters are prepared to take bans as they know they can keep the gear and if they lose that particular item they know that they can quickly get it again after they return from the ban. Doing it the way i have mentioned above makes them have to work again and will give them the time to think over what they have done, also a punishment of this nature will stop people using other exploits, or exploiting in the the future. The above 3 points are the only way to make players understand that exploiting is totally unacceptable.

 

Thank you in advanced for using my form of punishment, people really do not care if they get banned for 1-30 day, what they do care about re the 3 points i mentioned above.

 

Hahaha, good one. Oh wait, you were serious? AAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

I'm sorry but that's simply an awful idea. Every non-RPer would instantly quit the game if given this punishment. Their friends would quit too, as would a sizable chunk of the PvP and PvE community as a whole. You want to kill the game? Just send the message that Bioware will destroy all your hard work. GG.

Edited April 30, 2015 by idnewton

[Pagy]

Bioware the only acceptable punishment for people who have used this exploit is the following:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. 10 level reduction for all characters in account

post like these make me wish more exploits come out in the future.

 

this is hilarious

[huggaa]

Last game I played before coming back to Swtor had an exploit that was used by two guilds and all 200 members got perma banned accounts.

[idnewton]

Hey folks,

 

As I mentioned earlier this morning, we very quickly isolated what the exploit entailed and began an investigation into players who have participated. As of now, we have identified those unique accounts which have gone into the blocked off area of Ziost, and killed one of the two bosses present. For each of these players, they will receive a minimum of the following action:

• Multiple day suspension
  
• Removal of all gear earned through defeating those bosses
  
• Removal of all achievements earned through defeating those bosses
  
• Reduction in Elite and Ultimate Commendations
  

 

We will continue to monitor the blocked off area of Ziost throughout Monday, May the 4th, which is when it opens officially. Any player who is found to participate in this exploit beyond today’s notice will likely receive more aggressive action. Thank you all for bringing this to our attention.

 

-eric

 

Good to hear, but I want to see what you're planning to do to the accounts involved in this exploit which were also involved in the Ravagers exploit. If I recall correctly, the community was told that the punishment for exploiting would be much more severe if a player guilty of the Ravagers exploit was found to be guilty of a future one. Well, this is the next exploit, so I'd very much like to hear your plan for the Ravagers exploiters involved in this Ziost exploit as well.

 

Actions like the ones we've been told about for the Ziost exploit are a slap on the wrist to deter players from future exploits. If a player was involved in both exploits, it's clear the slap on the wrist was not effective. To be honest, if a player was involved in both, I'd recommend a permanent ban, or at least a bare minimum of two weeks (as well as the removal of gear, comms, and achievement as mentioned).

[Pagy]

Good to hear, but I want to see what you're planning to do to the accounts involved in this exploit which were also involved in the Ravagers exploit. If I recall correctly, the community was told that the punishment for exploiting would be much more severe if a player guilty of the Ravagers exploit was found to be guilty of a future one.

difficultly reading? he listed the potential penalties.

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to give you an update on the Ziost exploit that was discovered. As mentioned in my post yesterday, we took action against those players who had participated and we are continuing to monitor for additional players throughout May 4th. In doing so, we have discovered more players who were exploiting last night. Since we had previously expressed that participation was considered an exploit, we are going to be increasing the action taken against these players. Those players will all be receiving a minimum of a one week suspension, along with the other actions which we listed yesterday.

 

To reiterate, we will continue to monitor this issue throughout the morning of May 4th when the area goes live. Action will continue against players who participate in this exploit. Thank you all for helping us to keep The Old Republic a fun and fair place for everyone.

 

-eric

[idnewton]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to give you an update on the Ziost exploit that was discovered. As mentioned in my post yesterday, we took action against those players who had participated and we are continuing to monitor for additional players throughout May 4th. In doing so, we have discovered more players who were exploiting last night. Since we had previously expressed that participation was considered an exploit, we are going to be increasing the action taken against these players. Those players will all be receiving a minimum of a one week suspension, along with the other actions which we listed yesterday.

 

To reiterate, we will continue to monitor this issue throughout the morning of May 4th when the area goes live. Action will continue against players who participate in this exploit. Thank you all for helping us to keep The Old Republic a fun and fair place for everyone.

 

-eric

 

Good. This is what should happen.

 

I imagine many players (including me) were unaware of this exploit until reading about it on the forums, most likely from a BW post, Quite frankly, as members of the SWTOR team, you guys should be free to post about relevant issues without fear of the information provided being used for ill. A player who uses Dev-provided information to willingly exploit the game should be dealt with decisively and severely.

 

It's refreshing to see BW take these situations seriously, and do what needs to be done.

Edited April 30, 2015 by idnewton

[mikebevo]

Personally, idk how obvious any gate was blocking of this particular area.

Personally I did go exploring, looking for Aegis Squadron ZX-1 and Monoliths. If the walled gated area is in the landing zone, then to anyone with half a brain, it was ovivious that the area was offlimits. I know I only have half a brain and I stayed away.

 

I do agree with you. If someone got a unfair advantage, then they should be punished. If they just got in exploring and then left I see no harm. However, I would consider a group getting pulls even if they didn't get a kill a unfair advantage. They have seen the fight which gives them an advantage over someone who has not seen the fight. Not that I really care, but I do consider experience an advantage.

Edited April 30, 2015 by mikebevo

[Orizuru]

Good to hear, but I want to see what you're planning to do to the accounts involved in this exploit which were also involved in the Ravagers exploit. If I recall correctly, the community was told that the punishment for exploiting would be much more severe if a player guilty of the Ravagers exploit was found to be guilty of a future one. Well, this is the next exploit, so I'd very much like to hear your plan for the Ravagers exploiters involved in this Ziost exploit as well.

 

Actions like the ones we've been told about for the Ziost exploit are a slap on the wrist to deter players from future exploits. If a player was involved in both exploits, it's clear the slap on the wrist was not effective. To be honest, if a player was involved in both, I'd recommend a permanent ban, or at least a bare minimum of two weeks (as well as the removal of gear, comms, and achievement as mentioned).

 

I took the part about "multiple day bans" to mean they were giving longer bans to people who have been found to use exploits in the past. I'm only speculating though.

[idnewton]

I took the part about "multiple day bans" to mean they were giving longer bans to people who have been found to use exploits in the past. I'm only speculating though.

 

Well, I figured these punishments were bigger simply because it's not the first recent exploit. With the Ravagers exploit, they may have felt a little hesitant about giving out this kind of punishment because the community really didn't know how BW would treat exploits. Now that the Ravagers action has established BW's feelings toward exploits, I imagine they felt justified in giving the full punishment for the exploit. So the question is, if that's the standard punishment for the Ziost exploit, what does BW plan to do to the players also involved in the Ravagers one?

[znihilist]

I think a lot of people were betting on a Ravager's like punishment and didn't think it was any serious

[TUXs]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to give you an update on the Ziost exploit that was discovered. As mentioned in my post yesterday, we took action against those players who had participated and we are continuing to monitor for additional players throughout May 4th. In doing so, we have discovered more players who were exploiting last night. Since we had previously expressed that participation was considered an exploit, we are going to be increasing the action taken against these players. Those players will all be receiving a minimum of a one week suspension, along with the other actions which we listed yesterday.

 

To reiterate, we will continue to monitor this issue throughout the morning of May 4th when the area goes live. Action will continue against players who participate in this exploit. Thank you all for helping us to keep The Old Republic a fun and fair place for everyone.

 

-eric

 

Nicely done Eric!!!

[Orizuru]

Well, I figured these punishments were bigger simply because it's not the first recent exploit. With the Ravagers exploit, they may have felt a little hesitant about giving out this kind of punishment because the community really didn't know how BW would treat exploits. Now that the Ravagers action has established BW's feelings toward exploits, I imagine they felt justified in giving the full punishment for the exploit. So the question is, if that's the standard punishment for the Ziost exploit, what does BW plan to do to the players also involved in the Ravagers one?

 

Honestly, I don't care for the heavy handed approach too much.

 

Punishment is needed, and bans are warranted, but being too heavy handed just drives people away from the game, even when the punishment is warranted. Taking away the items and achievements gained from the exploit is a must in this case. It would have been preferred in the Ravagers exploit as well, but since that occurred during a time when the drops from the boss were already obtainable, I can understand them being hesitant to remove gear and comms from players without a perfect system to detect who exploited and who legitimately downed the boss. While the data trail may seem perfectly clear on an individual player's data entries, doing massive selections against all players in the database is a completely different beast.

 

In this exploit though, since the bosses were not yet available to any player as a legitimate kill, it's easily to find players with the item ids and achievements and the evidence is indisputable. So removing items, comms, and achievements is much easier this time around.

 

As for bans, I think they are definitely needed to help discourage future exploits from being used, but let's be honest, whether there is a 1, 2, and 10 day ban, cheaters are still going to cheat if they think there is a chance they can get away with it. I think 2-3 day ban is fine, even for the ones who exploited Ravagers as well. However, I do believe the bans shouldn't be immediate. They should start all of the bans when the new content unlocks on May 4th and force those players to be days behind on progression of the content they tried to exploit before it was available.

 

I can't stand a cheater, but there comes a point where you have to weight how you deal with them against your public image. Being too heavy handed with punishments can have unpredictable backlashes for the game's proprietors. Even the cheaters have friends and family who will take them for their word and believe that Bioware was the evil corporation that took a punishment too far. From a societal and cultural viewpoint, we as human beings have a very perverse perception of justice. The punishment should fit the crime, but being too heavy handed risks touching upon that perverted sense of justice within certain groups of people and making them sympathetic to the cheaters and criminals being punished.

 

I've been told I think too much though, so what do I know? lol

[Anaesha]

This game needs a three strikes you're out rule for exploiters like in Criminal Law.

[branmakmuffin]

Honestly, I don't care for the heavy handed approach too much.

 

Punishment is needed, and bans are warranted, but being too heavy handed just drives people away from the game, even when the punishment is warranted.

And slaps on the wrist risk driving away the more fair-minded players. Who do you think it's better to risk losing, the cheaters or the fair-minded?

[Orizuru]

And slaps on the wrist risk driving away the more fair-minded players. Who do you think it's better to risk losing, the cheaters or the fair-minded?

 

I know. I didn't mean they should be driven out at the expense of the cheaters.

 

Did you read my entire post though? I'm all for punishments. Remove the items, achievements, and comms. Ban them for an appropriate amount of time. Once this is done they have little impact upon those who play fairly. I just don't think they should be thrown on a sacrificial altar to appease the blood-lust of some.

[branmakmuffin]

You mean like the area on battle of Ilum of that isn't on map, but needs to be entered to get the necessary things to do bonus boss?

You mean the Battle of Ilum FP? If that's the one (the giant guid, or whatever it's called, or is there another "bonus boss?"), you get to it via normal game play.

 

But, by all means, don't let me keep you from your important rationalization.

[Infernixx]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to give you an update on the Ziost exploit that was discovered. As mentioned in my post yesterday, we took action against those players who had participated and we are continuing to monitor for additional players throughout May 4th. In doing so, we have discovered more players who were exploiting last night. Since we had previously expressed that participation was considered an exploit, we are going to be increasing the action taken against these players. Those players will all be receiving a minimum of a one week suspension, along with the other actions which we listed yesterday.

 

To reiterate, we will continue to monitor this issue throughout the morning of May 4th when the area goes live. Action will continue against players who participate in this exploit. Thank you all for helping us to keep The Old Republic a fun and fair place for everyone.

 

-eric

 

Well done.

[Anaesha]

I know. I didn't mean they should be driven out at the expense of the cheaters.

 

Did you read my entire post though? I'm all for punishments. Remove the items, achievements, and comms. Ban them for an appropriate amount of time. Once this is done they have little impact upon those who play fairly. I just don't think they should be thrown on a sacrificial altar to appease the blood-lust of some.

 

The main problem is that you can't keep giving them light punishments, some people just don't care unless you smack them with something hard.

 

Hence why I think they need a system similar to the three strikes rule in criminal law.

 

First Strike: as out lined by Eric already.

 

Second Strike: the same as strike one but with a longer ban time say 1 month

 

Third Strike: Permanent ban of all accounts associated with the user.

 

If they don't learn their lesson by strike two they deserve what they get.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Anaesha

[Code_Airwolf]

So.....if the people from yesterday rec'd a 3 day, then that means the people doing it last night through this morning are not the same people, correct? Why would they get a week and not 3 days?

 

Stupid question time, and if it is a stupid question my apologies in advance, but other than on these forums, has this warning been posted anywhere else? Is it possible if someone isn't a forum browser/reader they have no idea about this warning? (I haven't had a chance to log on to play since Tuesday evening so I don't know if there's a message on the launcher or something.....)

Edited April 30, 2015 by Code_Airwolf

[DanNV]

As I posted yesterday, punishment for exploiting should be:

 

1. Removal of all in game credits from all characters in account

2. Removal of all gear from all characters in account

3. Removal od all Legacy levels and perks

4. Removal of all titles and achievements

5. Removal of all experience boosts for 30 playing days (not just 30 calendar days, but 30 days of game play)

6. Barring from ability to group for 30 days

7. Barring from guild membership for 30 days

8. Return all characters in account to level one and return them to the starting planet as new characters

9. No in game chat for 30 days

 

No bans needed.