Healing reduced by 30% in pvp. WHY!?

[Scelerant]

this has nothing to do with WoW... and there is nothing imbalanced for a healer to keep a ally up when its getting attacked by 2 oponents if hes not being hit/CC'ed AT ALL, its the bare minimal a healer should be able to pull off to warrant his spot in a OP, for reasons explained in the previous post.

 

in a 2v2 scenario for exemple, if one of them is a healer, then he HAS to merrit his spot and his specialization by being able to support his ally against the other team of 2 oponents period, if not, its always better to be a tank/dps instead.

 

 

If a healer can keep a target up against 2 dps, that means the healer can heal for twice as much as anyone can deal in damage. If you add interrupts and CC to that, it still means that the healer can easily outdo 1 dps.

 

In the case of your partner in the 2 v 2, he or she needs to do something too, not just count on you to outdo their dps with heals. In essence, if you outdo the damage the two of them do and your partner equals one of them in DPS, that means you are fighting 3 v 2 not 2 v 2 because you are equal to two players in power.

 

The mindset you represent was the core problem in WoW and the PvP in that game is evidence enough against any argument you can think up.

[Ganan]

Umm not really. There's a danger here when escalating healing. Healers are not better than DPS. This game doesn't have small scale arenas like WoW and thus doesn't need to be balanced around that. You balance around Warzones, if a healer is standing in the back being protected by tanks and dps with CC and interrupts(on a competent team), then he can very well do this and more. I've seen it happen.

 

are people not reading what I am saying or something?

this has nothing to do with WoW... and even less to do with arenas...

 

Im talking simple sheer numbers here

being a healer takes a slot just like any other role... if that slot is taken and that role not fullfilled, then its poitless to take it...

 

by being a healer I sacrifice dps and tanking power... if I trade it for healing power that is sub-par to the standarts of other roles, then its pointless...

 

I used the 2v2 exemple because its easy to understand, if you make the effort to reason about it, why if one of those 2 being a healer needs to be able to keep up the other against the other team of 2...

 

NUMBERS, they are not matched, thats what Im saying. the amplitude of my heals are not enough to makeup for the lack of dps from me being a dps, or the mitigation+dps of me being a tank

 

as it stands, I CANNOT keep a player up against 2 attackers, even if they leave me alone... me being there is merely a delay for their kills never a tactical advantage.

well almost never.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Ganan

[tsupra]

^This is why heals take a hit.

 

I was playing in a Voidstar match tonight (Watchmen spec Sentinel), I used force leap on a Sorc who was facing away from me and proceed to burn him down to around 20% of his health, then I got CCed, he healed back to full, and then nuked me. If you ask me damage bubbles should be banned in PvP and healing should take even more of a nerf.

 

Yes and they should buff the damage that someone can do in the uptime a leap provides them!

Some funny crap in this thread,keep it up people

[Tharenisis]

lol. wow. dont even know what to say to that. Maybe find a game that lets you be "God" and go play that.

 

Hey now...Black & White I and II were good games D:

[Zingas]

are people not reading what I am saying or something?

this has nothing to do with WoW... and even less to do with arenas...

 

Im talking simple sheer numbers here

being a healer takes a slot just like any other role... if that slot is taken and that role not fullfilled, then its poitless to take it...

 

by being a healer I sacrifice dps and tanking power... if I trade it for healing power that is sub-par to the standarts of other roles, then its pointless...

 

I used the 2v2 exemple because its easy to understand, if you make the effort to reason about it, why if one of those 2 being a healer needs to be able to keep up the other against the other team of 2...

 

NUMBERS, they are not matched, thats what Im saying. the amplitude of my heals are not enough to makeup for the lack of dps from me being a dps, or the mitigation+dps of me being a tank

 

as it stands, I CANNOT keep a player up against 2 attackers, even if they leave me alone... me being there is merely a delay for their kills never a tactical advantage.

well almost never.

 

 

You just used an example where the sheer numbers show that it's fine. You are able to keep one person up, that means you are equal to a DPS. You are not suppose to be able to keep someone up against two people if there's no one CC'ing or protecting them.

[GameTwine]

Counsalars/Sith Sorcs are the most annoying when it comes to healing. That shield saves them every time. I go to wail on them and boom no luck. It just drives me mad

 

I don't think jolt is working as when I interrupt them they go right back to casting it for 4 seconds. Or maybe its a different heal? I don't know I cant tell since the little square with the icon is the same color as the rest of them....really confusing...

[Zingas]

Counsalars/Sith Sorcs are the most annoying when it comes to healing. That shield saves them every time. I go to wail on them and boom no luck. It just drives me mad

 

I don't think jolt is working as when I interrupt them they go right back to casting it for 4 seconds. Or maybe its a different heal? I don't know I cant tell since the little square with the icon is the same color as the rest of them....really confusing...

 

Jolt is working fine. They get multiple heals. This is why healing is fine. Interrupts exist, but they aren't the trump-card they were in WoW.

 

You have to chain abilities together to kill a healer, Jolt>Electrocute>Overload>Low Slash...even whirlwind if you need it in a pinch.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Zingas

[Effigy-]

simple answer, we don't want this to be as terrible as wow!

I play a healer and a typical game will have top dmg around 190-220k and I will finish the game with about 50k dmg and 250+k healing.

 

To me this seems perfectly balanced, the healing is fine, I shouldnt heal 4x the dmg, like wow that is just makes for a terrible game. right now 1 healer and 1 dps vs 2-3 dps seems pretty even in most cases, I like it.

 

Once you start making healing more powerful it just ruins the game. If anything, fix the operation frames for the people with no game awareness (I use nameplates and bind a key to target next ally) and also use the operation frames for quick targeting despite them sometimes showing incorrect values of hp).

 

I feel like right now the game is really fun, and seemes as balanced as one could hope for a game this new. Fix the minor bugs, but if you play a healer and are having troubles, look at your play, and try to improve. I'm a lvl 25 sage and I outheal/dps level 50's. If this is the case, you have no right to complain about balance, too much qq these days, spend your time on something more productive like improving!

 

my only gripe would have to be buff/debuff watching, It would be nice to be able to customize these a little better.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Effigy-

[Effigy-]

 

as it stands, I CANNOT keep a player up against 2 attackers, even if they leave me alone... me being there is merely a delay for their kills never a tactical advantage.

well almost never.

 

not sure what class you play, but i play a sage, and 2 players seem pretty damn easy if they dont try to CC me. Hell i just cast armor, put up a hot and then use the talented 1 second off my big heal. that tops them off i have time to stun, or grip them, and from that point i can help dps or keep my ally topped. I cannot believe people are complaining about healers not being effective and it worries me.

 

I think one of the problems is alot of ahem, noobs are reliant on the operation frames (raid frames from wow) which dont seem to work very well. still, *** is wrong with healing?

 

If I enter a bg and do more healing than the top dmg, and have around 50-60k dmg myself, how is that a wasted spot? I always get 2-4 mvp votes every game, and I win a huge % of my games. Im only level 25, i know being sub 20 i was alot weaker, but once i got my talented rejuv, and shield talents my power increased sooo much. But still I play alot of games (thats how i lvl) and i routinely outheal lvl 50 sages who complain about healing.....

 

and before anyone thinks this is a brag post its not, I was a 1 time wow glad, and a lowly diamond sc2 player. I see super fail, back peddling sages complaining about healing being underpowered and it irritates me, learn 2 play! arg!

Edited December 27, 2011 by Effigy-

[Nowhere]

30% was too harsh, first of all. When developers balance anything post launch by more than 5% to 10%, it shows a flaw in game design, ham handed balancing, a reactionary response to people moaning on the forums; or some combination of the three. It never, ever speaks well of an MMO developer to be ham handed when it comes to balance and nerfs.

 

The second point I'd make is that if a skill, or a type of skill, is deemed overpowered, before nerfing it, an eye has to be cast as to what the balance of effected classes are on the whole, how the nerf will effect them and what may be done to offset the nerf to keep the effected classes balanced and fun.

 

Healers were not over powered pre-nerf. One can argue that their healing was overpowered, but with healing taking a major nerf, most healing classes are now underpowered as a result. There should be something to offset the nerf. If my heals can't keep my team mates alive and I can't win 1 vs. 1 fights because my heals are too weak and my DPS too ineffectual, then what is the point of playing those classes in PvP? Keeping oneself alive for an extra 15 seconds or allowing one team mate to take three or four more hits before going down does not make playing a healer in PVP worthwhile.

 

I think that when the trauma debuff is in place, to balance the 30% loss in healing per cast, your force pool and force regeneration rates should be boosted, so that a healer can heal the same amount as they used to be able to before running out of force, while the debuff means that it takes 30% more casts (and thus 30% more time) to accomplish.

 

Even that may not be enough. Some combination of force regen boost and damage boost may be more warranted.

 

In the end, if healers become easy to kill, can't keep team mates alive and have trouble killing anyone, what is the point?

 

(No one likes nerfs, but extreme nerfs, when fine tuning should have been enough, signal problems that are worrisome).

 

 

Fully agree with everything this fine gentlemen said.

 

Currently as it stands, the debuff is just simply too much.

 

I will reserve final judgement until I get to 50 but right now as a level 27 sawbones with years of PvP experience I am not enjoying healing. I am unsure I will even be able to get to 50 as a healer in this game. The 30% debuff just sucks.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Nowhere

[Sgt_shades]

They at least need to give us the ability to heal ourselves for the full amount. As it is I can't even kite melee classes usually, my heals don't gain me anything. That or give us better escape ability or CC that actually help ourselves. Our CC for team is fine, but some people need to realize at upper level and good teams, healers are being focused and pretty much chain dying and running back. Sure a good tank with guard helps, but we shouldn't have to solely rely on a tank knowing what he is doing to survive.

[tonykart]

Healing is absolutely fine. Good healers can dominate a game and that is not an exaggeration. I can't name the amount of times someone has said before a match "I got healz at mid" and we held mid all game.

 

This game is not easy for PvP... well for some. I hear idiots complaining in the Assassin thread that Assassin is weak... HA. Listen, if ur bad at PvP and ur trying to play a melee or healing class, just delete ur character and re-roll a Bounty Hunter or Trooper.

 

Healing is exactly as it should be. I applaud the developers for not dragging out slap fests where no one dies and any retard with a wrist can go down syndrome all over keyboard and drizzle silky heals. Sorry, healing takes skill, intelligence and judgement... develop these abilities or roll ranged DPS.

[GameTwine]

Jolt is working fine. They get multiple heals. This is why healing is fine. Interrupts exist, but they aren't the trump-card they were in WoW.

 

You have to chain abilities together to kill a healer, Jolt>Electrocute>Overload>Low Slash...even whirlwind if you need it in a pinch.

 

I don't know what type of pvp you play but most of the time abilities are on CD 0.0 To even have that kinda combination ready means that you just started the match lol

[pSyToR]

PLEASE Keep going...

 

My day will be better once again reading all the comments

[Zingas]

I don't know what type of pvp you play but most of the time abilities are on CD 0.0 To even have that kinda combination ready means that you just started the match lol

 

They are all on sub-1min cd's. So not really...I usually have them all up whenever I find a battle happening or i've just rezzed. I usually find the healer or anyone on light armor, if I can't find that, I find someone in medium and go to town.

[Nowhere]

They at least need to give us the ability to heal ourselves for the full amount. As it is I can't even kite melee classes usually, my heals don't gain me anything. That or give us better escape ability or CC that actually help ourselves. Our CC for team is fine, but some people need to realize at upper level and good teams, healers are being focused and pretty much chain dying and running back. Sure a good tank with guard helps, but we shouldn't have to solely rely on a tank knowing what he is doing to survive.

 

I agree. Right now when you have a dps on you the survivability is lacking in a major way.

 

The 30% debuff is simply too much.

[Ignorant]

It most certainly is not fine... the only way i should be able to be killed by ANY amount of dps as a healer is if I get interrupted. If they don't interrupt me they should be punished by not being able to kill me ever. Even if it's the entire opposing team.

 

lol that was a funny read.

 

it seems like you are looking for a game with god mode. Either way quit complaining because people attack you when you heal. Its called PvP.

[Ganiccus]

it is relevant. if i healed for anymore it would break the warzone. no one would ever die.

 

This.

 

If you're not level 50 yet, then you need to calm down. Healers are very strong.

[AMKSED]

Are people that dumb to realize how OP healing would be if people healed for another 30%?

[Darth_Vampirius]

Either you are flat out lying, or those DPSers suck beyond belief.

 

Niether. Dude went invincible 2 mins into the match.

[CapuchinSeven]

No, I am Zorro! Best healer in all the land!

 

Surely, out of all the servers and tens of thousands of people healing in SWTOR, you must have heard of me!

 

No, but that's hardly surprising.

 

I guess the endless amounts of knockback stuns, incapacitates, interrupts etc arnt enough for you?

let me guess you play a marauder? just because you dont have much CC doesnt mean all classes lack CC m8

 

So wait wait... under your rules HE has to get a team to bring you down because he doesn't have much CC, but healers shouldn't have to rely on a team to guard and taunt them or their targets they are healing, you should just have the pre -30% god healing that we had in beta?

 

Seriously, you guys are just bad healers. It's clear few of you played in beta and few of you have hit 50 in live.

Edited December 27, 2011 by CapuchinSeven

[Felene]

A lv50 healer with full pvp gear and good skill + 2 lv20ish dps take on one lv50 one lower lv Guardian, a lv20ish scoundrel, a lv13 Vanguard and a lv33 healer Sage.

 

3 vs 5

 

3 win.

 

Just a little example how powerful lv50 healer can be.

[CapuchinSeven]

Sure a good tank with guard helps, but we shouldn't have to solely rely on a tank knowing what he is doing to survive.

 

I agree. Right now when you have a dps on you the survivability is lacking in a major way.

 

The 30% debuff is simply too much.

 

Rubbish, both your post and the one you quoted. You SHOULD have to rely on a tank, that's the whole damn point. So tanks should have to rely on healers when they are doing their job guarding and taunting but healers should just lol-jump around the map spamming HOTs? You SHOULD have to rely on a tank to do his job to keep yourself or another playing from being killed by 3 focused DPS.

 

If you're not level 50 yet then you're all talking blind, you have no idea what you're talking about. Anymore healing and no one would die.

Edited December 27, 2011 by CapuchinSeven

[Husanak]

Why do people assume the Bio Devs have not thought the 30% healing reduction through. I mean really yes there was a beta phase where healing in PvP was the same as healing in PvE, it didn't work plain and simple... the current implementation is fine as it is.

 

No a Healer should NOT be able to kite a DPS too infinity... if you can't kill someone before you go down as a healer rethink your playstyle... the issue is you not the system.

[ColdeathCA]

Altho i downt minde the 30% debuff i do seam to get less war zone comindation in healing compared to DPS.