OOJames Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Nooooooooo! I hate damaging myself to regenerate force. Horrific idea for when health is already low. For pvp-ers you risk putting yourself into the below 30% range of health where dps can start to use more powerful moves such as Dispatch/Vicious throw or Quickdraw/Takedown. It's fine how it is. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuroshimaiHD Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 3 minute CD to restore 1/3 of your force. lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bzziki Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 While this is stupid change for healer, this will be awesome change for madness, but with lower cd, mb 2 min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snean Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 goodbye sorc/sage healers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Puppy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Dev1: "To many people are playing Sorc/Sage..." Dev2: "Nerf there most favored spell and only viable endgame dps build that will get them to quit the class" Dev1:" It's not working... they are still playing the class.." Dev2:" I know what to do"... Dev1: "What? What?" Dev2: "Hand me the nerf bat" looks over at the sorc healer "this should do it"...SMACK!! Edited April 17, 2015 by Happy_Puppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 No "fix" is needed...and it is being touted as a "quality of life" improvement. ??? We better get used to it, chances are this goes live. They're probably not done "improving" things either. Seems like the "feedback" threads are just for amusement, to see how much strife can be generated even before the bomb is dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snean Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 No "fix" is needed...and it is being touted as a "quality of life" improvement. ??? devs play only bh/tr classes and they hate every else classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarasBane Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 This is the first time I have ever posted on SWTOR forums and I'm doing it out of love for my sage. According to what I have read, you are saying that this will assist with burst healing. My sage is my main and I currently have no problems burst healing, so to me there is nothing to be fixed. It seems like many changes are somehow, at the end of the day, related to pvp rather than pve so I'm thinking that's the possible genesis here as well. All I know is it's not gonna help healing, at least I'm not seeing it. This to me is a major change to the class that makes no sense and will effect the viability of sorc/sage heals. First quake/force storm and now this? You just moved in the right direction in giving us the ability, with a 4 piece set bonus to sacrifice without consuming health and now you are going to put a 3 min cool down on my ability to sacrifice at all? Also, speaking of set bonus, wouldn't this change virtually make the 4 piece reward almost worthless? If you are reading this, please stop the insanity. Is someone that plays a sage asking for this change? If so I would like them to explain the benefits to me. Again, it's only PTS so it can be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloneli Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 devs play only bh/tr classes and they hate every else classes. And you obviously don't do PVP. But I agree that this change is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) I don't understand it - for PvE. For PvP, I could only imagine a combination of Noble Sacrifice to get more Force for Self-Healing, and self-healing inside of that bubble, or even when kiting / LOSing. I almost guess that this nerf is very much PvP-related, because in the PvP forums there has been quite a lot of moaning and whining about Sages being able to do some serious self-heal ... Which leaves now the DD Operative as the best self-healing capable class which is out there right now. I can't say about Madness or its mirror, because I don't play it. Edited April 19, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abygale Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Wait... so how are sorc healers going to manage their force..? Ops have diagnostic scan, mercs have kolto shot... sorcs have.. that melee attack that I dont have on my bar anymore? If I read correctly, theyre also increasing the force needed for sorc heals along with this consumption business? Edited April 20, 2015 by Abygale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Wait... so how are sorc healers going to manage their force..? Ops have diagnostic scan, mercs have kolto shot... sorcs have.. that melee attack that I dont have on my bar anymore? If I read correctly, theyre also increasing the force needed for sorc heals along with this consumption business? Yes, basically their idea is to make healing cost more, and reduce ways to regain resources/force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XantosCledwin Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) okay, I really don't see the problem... as it currently stands, Consumption drains 15% of your health to restore 8% of your maximum force. Which means that Consumption currently restores a total of 48 Force per use (considering the maximum Force Pool of a Sage is 600). Since Consumption can be stacked up to 4 times, that means that at it's maximum stack you have restored 192 Force while losing 60% of your overall health. The changes proposed will make Consumption remove 10% of your health while restoring 200 Force PERIOD. You won't be able to stack it because it will have a 3 minute cooldown. However the fact that it is restoring 200 Force automatically makes it BETTER than the 4x stacked version of the current consumption. This is especially true when you consider that to get this 200 Force renewal you only have to consume 10% of your health instead of the previous 60% of your health for 8 less Force than this new version is going to restore. So overall this is a buff, not a nerf! Also this change really only makes the Sorcerer/Sage fall more in line with the resource management abilities of other classes. Edited April 21, 2015 by XantosCledwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) okay, I really don't see the problem... as it currently stands, Consumption drains 15% of your health to restore 8% of your maximum force. Which means that Consumption currently restores a total of 48 Force per use (considering the maximum Force Pool of a Sage is 600). Since Consumption can be stacked up to 4 times, that means that at it's maximum stack you have restored 192 Force while losing 60% of your overall health. The changes proposed will make Consumption remove 10% of your health while restoring 200 Force PERIOD. You won't be able to stack it because it will have a 3 minute cooldown. However the fact that it is restoring 200 Force automatically makes it BETTER than the 4x stacked version of the current consumption. This is especially true when you consider that to get this 200 Force renewal you only have to consume 10% of your health instead of the previous 60% of your health for 8 less Force than this new version is going to restore. So overall this is a buff, not a nerf! Also this change really only makes the Sorcerer/Sage fall more in line with the resource management abilities of other classes. You just forget a little thing. The proposed NERF is useable every 3 minutes. So you will get 200 force every 3 minutes. As it works now, during that same time of 3 minutes you can use Consumption not 3 or 4 times, but 30 or 40, which means more than 10 times force regeneration than we will get with the proposed NERF. Edited April 22, 2015 by Pirindolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarurelm Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 At first look, it does seem to be a nerf. But that's when I think of the time when TfB HM was still progression. Since those days, there is nothing wrong with force management and I actually complain a lot that the most fun/challenging part of Sage/Sorc healing was gone and that i never really have to use Noble Sacrifice/Consumption during HM progression fights. Those of you doing anything less than the last 2 bosses on either HM Ops need to get a better team who doesn't stand in stupid all the time and learn triage. This, obviously, is from a PVE only viewpoint as I never PVP on my Sage/Sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 you are forgetting the set bonus saving you from health loss if you do it with innervate stacks on sorc healers..definetly a nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snean Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 you are forgetting the set bonus saving you from health loss if you do it with innervate stacks on sorc healers..definetly a nerf it's not nerf, it's distraction sorc heal in pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 it's not nerf, it's distraction sorc heal in pve. good joke It makes the set bonus worthless and is clearly a nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albethe Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I don't understand it - for PvE. For PvP, I could only imagine a combination of Noble Sacrifice to get more Force for Self-Healing, and self-healing inside of that bubble, or even when kiting / LOSing. I almost guess that this nerf is very much PvP-related, because in the PvP forums there has been quite a lot of moaning and whining about Sages being able to do some serious self-heal ... Which leaves now the DD Operative as the best self-healing capable class which is out there right now. I can't say about Madness or its mirror, because I don't play it. I think it's because energy management is too easy compared to other classes Edited April 22, 2015 by albethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abygale Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Yes, basically their idea is to make healing cost more, and reduce ways to regain resources/force. Well I got that. I'm just wondering about the force management compared to the other two healers management. Operatives have diagnostic scan, cool head as well as their basic attack that either generate energy or conserve energy. Mercenaries have kolto shot, vent heat and their basic attack. So if sorcerors consumption gets put onto a 3 minute cd, I'll be looking at it as more along the lines of operatives Cool Head or mercenaries Vent Heat. Sorcerors basic attack is.. in melee range. no use at all. I'm looking for the equivalent to Diagnostic Scan and Kolto shot. Crappy heals but not energy consuming. Edited April 23, 2015 by Abygale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well I got that. I'm just wondering about the force management compared to the other two healers management. Operatives have diagnostic scan, cool head as well as their basic attack that either generate energy or conserve energy. Mercenaries have kolto shell, vent heat and their basic attack. So if sorcerors consumption gets put onto a 3 minute cd, I'll be looking at it as more along the lines of operatives Cool Head or mercenaries Vent Heat. Sorcerors basic attack is.. in melee range. no use at all. I'm looking for the equivalent to Diagnostic Scan and Kolto shot. Crappy heals but not energy consuming. Yes, I have a bad feeling about it all personally. They increase heal costs, change consumption/NS to be more like Vent Heat...but, there is nothing like diagnostic scan or med shot etc. I just seriously doubt the promised healing increase is going to offset all this. In any case, I don't see the need for these changes, and I don't want sorc/sage to be made like a pseudo merc/Commando or something. They're probably going to do it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKurt Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Yeah, let's just take the lowest parsing spec in the game and nerf it some more, just because... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satedbuffalo Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'd like to hear their rationale for this change. It's certainly not a QoL change for PvE (and seriously, was anyone complaining about this?), and I cannot remember ever going OOM as a sorcerer healer in PvP. Maybe there are some long fights at mid in Alderaan, or something? This disrupts current force management techniques (the only part of the spec that took any kind of forethought), makes the set bonus worthless, and really doesn't seem to add anything interesting to the spec. Dumbing down healer specs makes me sad. Anyone have a link to a place where rationale is provided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvavwiel Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 okay, I really don't see the problem... as it currently stands, Consumption drains 15% of your health to restore 8% of your maximum force. Which means that Consumption currently restores a total of 48 Force per use (considering the maximum Force Pool of a Sage is 600). Since Consumption can be stacked up to 4 times, that means that at it's maximum stack you have restored 192 Force while losing 60% of your overall health. The changes proposed will make Consumption remove 10% of your health while restoring 200 Force PERIOD. You won't be able to stack it because it will have a 3 minute cooldown. However the fact that it is restoring 200 Force automatically makes it BETTER than the 4x stacked version of the current consumption. This is especially true when you consider that to get this 200 Force renewal you only have to consume 10% of your health instead of the previous 60% of your health for 8 less Force than this new version is going to restore. So overall this is a buff, not a nerf! Also this change really only makes the Sorcerer/Sage fall more in line with the resource management abilities of other classes. Currently for say the underlurker hardmode in the first 3 minutes i used noble sacrifice 9 times, trying to throttle back on the usage as much as i can, this still comes to 432 force. On the walkers on 8 man hardmode i even used it 31 times in 6 minutes, which is 1488 force in that timespan compared to the 400 with the propposed change. While some of the usages might have been 'for naught', it still shows how much of a actual nerf it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOJames Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 One of the BIG problems will be when you (maybe accidentally) burn through all your force whilst you Nobel Sacrifice/Consumption is still on CD. It leaves you with no other options! Even for the worst player who have no idea on resource management at least you can get energy/heat/force/stuff back at any point. Ops just spam diagnostic scan until energy is back for example. With this change you risk player who are still learning the class (and possibly advanced players depending on how well the changes are implemented) ending up with no force and their resource management still on CD. I main a Sage Healer - I am a Teir 1 Ranked PVP Player. I put up with the whole of season 3 with operatives having a SIGNIFICANT advantage in healing. Season 4 made my class competitive again. DO NOT MAKE THIS CHANGE. My heals do not need increasing (I could even understand them being nerfed). IMPORTANT my resource management does not need changing. (Already started levelling my operative in expectation of community being ignored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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