Questions about Juggs/Guardians in PVP (tanking and dps)

[adproduction]

So let me get this straight, you guys originally starting discussing means of improving yourselves in PvP, correct? To improve on something imply that this "something" requires a level of skill. Now, I am not disagree that this game is not hard, but it does require skill that some simply do not possess. This is reason you have so few guilds that have killed Revan HM and so few players that reach Tier 3 of Season 4(?) rewards. If this game required little to no skill, this would not be the case my friend.

 

1) Same argument the twink crowd gave back in 2006. (Please tell me you know who these guys are) They equated skill with gear and enchantments. So to prove a point, I semi-twinked both my hunter and warrior meaning I got blue gear and had it enchanted, but I was near the level of an average twink. In twink brackets, I ended in fifth place in kills out of 16 people with my hunter. In regular brackets where twinks come in solo or packs of two, it was really easy to take them out with my warrior. Why? Tunnel vision. They are so use to not using strategy except when trying to kill. I beat them not being more skilled (which doesn't exist) or outpowering them, but because I outsmarted them. Drawing their attention their way from the flag carrier, leading them to a power-up hut to give me the edge, and tricky some of them to jump off the ledge in WZ near the graveyards are some of my noticeable feats. Their need for self-gratification and hit large numbers cost their team their games and a personal lost when fighting one on one.

 

This was same case with the young man who death battle in PvP. He racked a large damage score, but didn't contribute to anything in the other games he was in. Then he had to nerve to start argument long after the session had ended, bragging about how well he did in terms of dps. To which I asked, "Did you cap anything?" He never answered, just kept ranting about his score and it seems he based his worth on the numbers he made. If the term carrying had to be used, it would be towards those who get tunnel vision and focus on the wrong aspects of PvP. However, I have reason to believe, that this crowd who is obsessed with numbers came from the arrogant elite minded (The number crunchers) and cyber bully crowd (Twinks) that came before them. Everyone picked up on the attitude because they thought it was the norm. Again, I pointed out how both a topic and article was made about this stuff we are talking about now. How crunching number ruined MMOs.

 

2) As for the Revan content, I haven't gotten through it either because it is more of the same **** I was doing at level 1. More quest. THAT'S MY REWARD? More, *********** work? When does the fun factor come in? The story could have been told through instances, not more endless quests. I, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN PVP, just wanted to have fun and that probably why I don't see many people hitting the +10k damage mark in PvP. Again, there is a reason why this game is dying. Hell, it saddens me to hear long time guilds have packed up and left. Hell, the guild I was in never log about on for 2 weeks and messageboards went quit.

 

How can you expect people to get through the Revan content when the game gives you no incentives to continue doing the content?

 

Per this thread, I merely commented on your tone of the few previous pages, but we've had this argument before. It was the same then as now.

 

I speak as I please and if you think I'm bad, you should argue with the old people and religious folk here where, but no matter their tone, if they are right about something then no matter their tone...it's right. With that being said, I argued about GCD, which I am still against and there is no reason to have it. I don't like the state of Guardian pre-3.0 and their current state now. Yes, they have some improvements, but having played other classes, the shadow/assassin is everything a jedi guardian should be. GREAT mobility, minor interrupts, damage, utility skills, as well as switching between damage and tanking. The only reason I am not playing the that class is because the double saber factor. I hate that weapon as I am not fan of darth maul or Ms. Shan.

 

The other problem with guardian community is the fact we think we contribute. Either we are useless life battery to a healer or try to play like water down version of Sentinels/Marauders. And while Sents/Maras do worse than we do (slightly) in terms of dps, their skill set allows them to contribute a lot more in terms of dps. I have played Focus/Rage, Vengeance/Vigilance, and Immortal/Defense. I did not find an identity in any of those specs and closest I came was a dps tanks.

 

You stated something in an attempt to help someone. I pointed out the flaws and was met with hostility.

 

I'm not saying I didn't, but I don't know what the hostility is pertaining to. Right now, my focus on a poster saying tank dps sucks but explain a my high skill count or generating 9850/10k damage in a fight. I already noted that tank dps is not the best dps (as in damage dealer, not average damage), but if it works why the **** do you care? Not to mention, this game has no official dps or total damage THAT HAS TO BE MET SO *** ARE YOU GUYS EVEN DISCUSSING?!!!

 

I'm looking at the blue in Grand's build a while back, but it has a strong start, but dps sharply after hitting it's reach it's peak. Nearly a decade back that consider bad no matter what the numbers you generated if you talking damage over time. Not to be out done, my own vigilance dps drop the same. When I compared to my tank dps, there wasn't a sharp dip in his dps. In fact, it tried to maintain itself. I look to the red line (which is what really matters), and I notice it was because frequent spike in damage that kept the blue line from totally dping.

 

Why is this is important because in the long run, the spike damage begin to weigh down on your ability to heal yourself vs. a onslaught that can dies over a length time. If you want to start an onslaught, jump pop up a timely defense and their dps quickly takes a nose dive. I do this to Sentinels in PvP all the time. Vigilance isn't any different. (And there is the fact they can't take damage either)

 

It's like the Rogue vs. the Warrior or Paladin in WoW or Crusader (or Berserker) vs. Weapon Master in Dungeon Fighter Online pre-nerf. A properly blade weapon master could beat a lot of people if played right, but putting up a proper defense before their rotation or avoiding it all together, they were toast. It was very same reason Rogue were called glass cannons because they can do an assload of damage, but if a class, particularly the Paladin or Warrior put up a defense, to their most damaging skill, it was game over. (A well played protection always won against a Rogue)

Edited April 27, 2015 by adproduction

[Dalfurend]

Say the guy who got carried by his healer.

 

Dalfurend: I...

 

So you are saying you have made 2.5 mil without the healer? Didn't think so.

 

This isn't a sport, kid, so don't use terms like carry unless you know what the **** it means. Carrying means you had to make contributations for the other team member to make up for what they lack. You can't tank or heal for anyone so *** are you talking about? If I am making touchdowns, capping, killing people in groups or solo, guarding people providing assistance, or assisted teams in trouble as not contributing then you are an idiot. Like the kid from a few nights ago, let the ball carrier walk right passed him.

 

You are right as my numbers say nothing about me, but equally you make comments on my performance based on what has been posted. (Remember to apply the rule of the thumb to yourself) As I said before, if it works, *** is the problem?

 

LMAO that video where I did the 2.5 mil with 2.5kdps was the most ridiculous game, there were a crap ton of heals on both teams, and clearly it was on of those high damage games. The title of the video was "If only I were an Assassin" because I could probably have gotten 1k more dps in a game like that.

 

But I digress. You don't do nearly as much for your team as you think, I guarantee that. Yes, I go yolo from time to time, but my team wins. The perks/annoyance of having a recognizable name and guild tag means that no matter what you are doing, you are guaranteed to have people over commit to you.

 

Again, if you want to be a baddie that thinks he's an asset to his team, go for it. I know when I'm doing dumb stuff and not playing the objectives - even if killing people at the spawn does technically help xD - but you clearly don't understand what it means to be useful.

 

As Rydarus has said, "The Dawn is coming!"

[GrandLordMenace]

1) Same argument the twink crowd gave back in 2006. (Please tell me you know who these guys are) They equated skill with gear and enchantments. So to prove a point, I semi-twinked both my hunter and warrior meaning I got blue gear and had it enchanted, but I was near the level of an average twink. In twink brackets, I ended in fifth place in kills out of 16 people with my hunter. In regular brackets where twinks come in solo or packs of two, it was really easy to take them out with my warrior. Why? Tunnel vision. They are so use to not using strategy except when trying to kill. I beat them not being more skilled (which doesn't exist) or outpowering them, but because I outsmarted them. Drawing their attention their way from the flag carrier, leading them to a power-up hut to give me the edge, and tricky some of them to jump off the ledge in WZ near the graveyards are some of my noticeable feats. Their need for self-gratification and hit large numbers cost their team their games and a personal lost when fighting one on one.

 

This was same case with the young man who death battle in PvP. He racked a large damage score, but didn't contribute to anything in the other games he was in. Then he had to nerve to start argument long after the session had ended, bragging about how well he did in terms of dps. To which I asked, "Did you cap anything?" He never answered, just kept ranting about his score and it seems he based his worth on the numbers he made. If the term carrying had to be used, it would be towards those who get tunnel vision and focus on the wrong aspects of PvP. However, I have reason to believe, that this crowd who is obsessed with numbers came from the arrogant elite minded (The number crunchers) and cyber bully crowd (Twinks) that came before them. Everyone picked up on the attitude because they thought it was the norm. Again, I pointed out how both a topic and article was made about this stuff we are talking about now. How crunching number ruined MMOs.

 

2) As for the Revan content, I haven't gotten through it either because it is more of the same **** I was doing at level 1. More quest. THAT'S MY REWARD? More, *********** work? When does the fun factor come in? The story could have been told through instances, not more endless quests. I, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN PVP, just wanted to have fun and that probably why I don't see many people hitting the +10k damage mark in PvP. Again, there is a reason why this game is dying. Hell, it saddens me to hear long time guilds have packed up and left. Hell, the guild I was in never log about on for 2 weeks and messageboards went quit.

 

How can you expect people to get through the Revan content when the game gives you no incentives to continue doing the content?

 

 

 

I speak as I please and if you think I'm bad, you should argue with the old people and religious folk here where, but no matter their tone, if they are right about something then no matter their tone...it's right. With that being said, I argued about GCD, which I am still against and there is no reason to have it. I don't like the state of Guardian pre-3.0 and their current state now. Yes, they have some improvements, but having played other classes, the shadow/assassin is everything a jedi guardian should be. GREAT mobility, minor interrupts, damage, utility skills, as well as switching between damage and tanking. The only reason I am not playing the that class is because the double saber factor. I hate that weapon as I am not fan of darth maul or Ms. Shan.

 

The other problem with guardian community is the fact we think we contribute. Either we are useless life battery to a healer or try to play like water down version of Sentinels/Marauders. And while Sents/Maras do worse than we do (slightly) in terms of dps, their skill set allows them to contribute a lot more in terms of dps. I have played Focus/Rage, Vengeance/Vigilance, and Immortal/Defense. I did not find an identity in any of those specs and closest I came was a dps tanks.

 

 

 

I'm not saying I didn't, but I don't know what the hostility is pertaining to. Right now, my focus on a poster saying tank dps sucks but explain a my high skill count or generating 9850/10k damage in a fight. I already noted that tank dps is not the best dps (as in damage dealer, not average damage), but if it works why the **** do you care? Not to mention, this game has no official dps or total damage THAT HAS TO BE MET SO *** ARE YOU GUYS EVEN DISCUSSING?!!!

 

I'm looking at the blue in Grand's build a while back, but it has a strong start, but dps sharply after hitting it's reach it's peak. Nearly a decade back that consider bad no matter what the numbers you generated if you talking damage over time. Not to be out done, my own vigilance dps drop the same. When I compared to my tank dps, there wasn't a sharp dip in his dps. In fact, it tried to maintain itself. I look to the red line (which is what really matters), and I notice it was because frequent spike in damage that kept the blue line from totally dping.

 

Why is this is important because in the long run, the spike damage begin to weigh down on your ability to heal yourself vs. a onslaught that can dies over a length time. If you want to start an onslaught, jump pop up a timely defense and their dps quickly takes a nose dive. I do this to Sentinels in PvP all the time. Vigilance isn't any different. (And there is the fact they can't take damage either)

 

It's like the Rogue vs. the Warrior or Paladin in WoW or Crusader (or Berserker) vs. Weapon Master in Dungeon Fighter Online pre-nerf. A properly blade weapon master could beat a lot of people if played right, but putting up a proper defense before their rotation or avoiding it all together, they were toast. It was very same reason Rogue were called glass cannons because they can do an assload of damage, but if a class, particularly the Paladin or Warrior put up a defense, to their most damaging skill, it was game over. (A well played protection always won against a Rogue)

 

Mate, let me know when you clear 10/10, have Elite Warlord, and are in at least Tier 2 in ranked, then we can talk. Until then you are a wannabe (not even a regstar, just a wannabe regstar) who claims to be l33t but hasn't so much as posted a video. L2P m8, get gud

 

I have toons on the Test Server, hit meh up.

[adproduction]

LMAO that video where I did the 2.5 mil with 2.5kdps was the most ridiculous game, there were a crap ton of heals on both teams...

 

I don't care what the other team did. You have to explain how you can use the word "carry" towards me when you had a healer carrying you through the whole to make 2.5 mil. AGAIN, WHAT THE TEAM DIDN'T MATTER AS THEY AREN'T THE ONE BEING A ******* AND SAYING NUMBER MATTER!!! I want you to explain how you can use the "carry" towards someone when you had to be carried yourself. Again, this isn't a sport and you didn't make the touch down yourself. You're not a one man team and you're not even the best player judging by the countless videos I made.

 

If you can't explain then please stop using terminology you have no knowledge of. If I had to take advice on my build, it would be from the other guys from the other video, but I guarantee you if I did follow their lead and try to be like that them like a tool, my build would no where near yours in terms of gear.

 

Dalfurend: I...

 

Don't even bother to answer if you're going to back pedal or come up with another excuse.

 

Also, I'm glad we are both in agreement that the 2.5 mil was a result of a farce game.

[adproduction]

Mate, let me know when you clear 10/10, have Elite Warlord, and are in at least Tier 2 in ranked, then we can talk. Until then you are a wannabe (not even a regstar, just a wannabe regstar) who claims to be l33t but hasn't so much as posted a video. L2P m8, get gud

 

I have toons on the Test Server, hit meh up.

 

1) No one really rank pvps on our server, you of all people should know that...mate.

 

2) Not try to be anything, I'm not tool like you Grand, I have more dignity to be more own person to follow a pattern done by other people. You aren't even a star, if you are wears your magazine, movie, etc. (It sad and amusing to watch you post as if you were celebrity)

 

3) I don't play test server....and I don't care for your toons.

Edited April 27, 2015 by adproduction

[GrandLordMenace]

1) No one really rank pvps on our server, you of all people should know that...mate.

 

2) Not try to be anything, I'm not tool like you Grand, I have more dignity to be more own person to follow a pattern done by other people. You aren't even a star, if you are wears your magazine, movie, etc. (It sad and amusing to watch you post as if you were celebrity)

 

3) I don't play test server....and I don't care for your toons.

 

Not a pattern done by other people if you carved your own pattern. #alacrity4dayz

 

And, are you on Ebon Hawk? Lulz... come at meh brah.

Edited April 27, 2015 by GrandLordMenace

[adproduction]

Not a pattern done by other people if you carved your own pattern. #alacrity4dayz

 

And, are you on Ebon Hawk? Lulz... come at meh brah.

 

http://media-touchdown.cursecdn.com/attachments/8/708/635535880936820585.jpg

[Dalfurend]

I don't care what the other team did. You have to explain how you can use the word "carry" towards me when you had a healer carrying you through the whole to make 2.5 mil. AGAIN, WHAT THE TEAM DIDN'T MATTER AS THEY AREN'T THE ONE BEING A ******* AND SAYING NUMBER MATTER!!! I want you to explain how you can use the "carry" towards someone when you had to be carried yourself. Again, this isn't a sport and you didn't make the touch down yourself. You're not a one man team and you're not even the best player judging by the countless videos I made.

 

If you can't explain then please stop using terminology you have no knowledge of. If I had to take advice on my build, it would be from the other guys from the other video, but I guarantee you if I did follow their lead and try to be like that them like a tool, my build would no where near yours in terms of gear.

 

Dalfurend: I...

 

Don't even bother to answer if you're going to back pedal or come up with another excuse.

 

Also, I'm glad we are both in agreement that the 2.5 mil was a result of a farce game.

 

OMG I'm loving you even more! HAHA! Do you have to leave?

 

Baby, you realize that the reason the bridge was capped was because we cleared their team, something they couldn't do. Add up the heal numbers on both teams and their team had more heals plus a true tank. The one factor that we beat them in was damage. Guess who lead that charge baby? That game was won thanks to mine and Guts' dps - if we lost you could say me YOLOSWAGGING #doesn'tneedwinsanymorebutitjusthappens was at fault, but we didn't. Make sense?

 

When everything else is equal or less than, if you win it's because of what you have that's better. You follow babe?

 

That said, it was a dumb match and I still wish I was on my Sin because I like big numbers. Nom nom nom.

 

You will never be a tool! Those are useful! \ /\ /ot.

 

Ho ho ho

[adproduction]

OMG...

 

I didn't read the other stuff. I just want to you to explain how you are exempt from being carried by your healer.

[Dalfurend]

I didn't read the other stuff. I just want to you to explain how you are exempt from being carried by your healer.

 

I don't understand the question babe. Everyone has their role to play, and I play my role better than most and because of that, my team wins games?

[adproduction]

I don't understand...

 

You do, you don't want to answer because you know you are hypocrite for saying I am being carrier when you're own video proof you require the same. Typical troll behahvior.

 

Grand that was pretty ****ed what you did a few minute ago. The other team gets one touchdown and you jump ship. I'm not surprised because the only reason you're an RP server is because why a lot of PvPers go to PvP servers because they think RPers are bad PvPers. You talk so much junk, but you seem to not be able to handle losing.

[GrandLordMenace]

You do, you don't want to answer because you know you are hypocrite for saying I am being carrier when you're own video proof you require the same. Typical troll behahvior.

 

Grand that was pretty ****ed what you did a few minute ago. The other team gets one touchdown and you jump ship. I'm not surprised because the only reason you're an RP server is because why a lot of PvPers go to PvP servers because they think RPers are bad PvPers. You talk so much junk, but you seem to not be able to handle losing.

 

Didn't spec in the right utilities m8

 

Qued ATM tho.

 

That you? http://i.imgur.com/xlDXdNg.jpg

 

Low damage? Wearing crit in gear, DPS gear? Looks like you alright

Edited April 28, 2015 by GrandLordMenace

[Zoom_VI]

Low damage? Wearing crit in gear, DPS gear? Looks like you alright

The combat log he posted several pages back has him listed as 'Leonio'

[GrandLordMenace]

The combat log he posted several pages back has him listed as 'Leonio'

 

Didn't see that toon in that huttball I was in for 2 seconds, before realizing I forgot utilities.

[undiess]

I don't know how you guys burst a healer down as rage. I seem to only be able to effectively neutralize and kill healers (especially solo) as Vengence. I think this has to do with mediocre burst with solid sustained damage all combined with constant roots.

[B-Quick]

So does anyone know what server Adproduction is on and/or his toon names so I can see this "tank/dps" build for myself. I'll pay for the damn transfer shut him up and come back to JC.

[GrandLordMenace]

So does anyone know what server Adproduction is on and/or his toon names so I can see this "tank/dps" build for myself. I'll pay for the damn transfer shut him up and come back to JC.

 

He claims to be on Ebon Hawk and has seen me before, noticed me disconnect from a warzone yesterday, so he definitely has a character on Ebon Hawk, pubside.

[GrandLordMenace]

The dawn has come. L2notruncritscrubbadubdub

 

http://imgur.com/LaCkGpo

 

Can't even beat MY numbers, Zetsuma will flay you alive.

Edited April 30, 2015 by GrandLordMenace

[adproduction]

He claims to be on Ebon Hawk and has seen me before, noticed me disconnect from a warzone yesterday, so he definitely has a character on Ebon Hawk, pubside.

 

Dude, I saw you in this WZ and you didn't leave this time. You were hilarious in combat. I didn't even really fight. I tried to follow you around and got flung a few times. I wanted to see the master at work and I must say...LOL!!!

[adproduction]

The dawn has come. L2notruncritscrubbadubdub

 

http://imgur.com/LaCkGpo

 

Can't even beat MY numbers, Zetsuma will flay you alive.

 

Beat me to it.

[GrandLordMenace]

XD you do know I have videos on youtube...

 

Sounds like someone is making excuses for how outclassed they are

[Dalfurend]

The dawn has come. L2notruncritscrubbadubdub

 

http://imgur.com/LaCkGpo

 

Can't even beat MY numbers, Zetsuma will flay you alive.

 

Haha, indeed. I love his excuses every time actual information comes to light.

 

Dude, I saw you in this WZ and you didn't leave this time. You were hilarious in combat. I didn't even really fight. I tried to follow you around and got flung a few times. I wanted to see the master at work and I must say...LOL!!!

 

Dayum you didn't fight and died 9 times. Imagine how many time you would have died if you were actually getting into combat. Either way, I thought objectives was your game .

 

#baddiesthatthinktheyaregoodandmakeridiculouslyterriblebuildswhichmakethemevenworsethentrytomakeotherpeopledoittoo.

 

*breath*

[adproduction]

XD you do know I have videos on youtube...

 

Sounds like someone is making excuses for how outclassed they are

 

Nope, I really was following you the whole time or at least the I best I could. I died 3 times following you on the ground and 6 times being flung off the bridge. I didn't really tried to fight anyone. (Hit a few stragglers here and there) Yes, I did 294k in a 8 man fight trying to follow you.

 

However, when I stop dicking around...

http://arhicks00.wix.com/home#!blank/cjw4

 

234k damage and fighting 2 exhumed gear healers in very last game. (400k in another game where stay in one area with little traffic) Killed both healer and killed a third. Also I came in the second round and it makes me wonder how much damage I would have racked up total if I were in the first round. (464k?) If this were an 8 man team...who knows. By no means am I captain bad-***, but when I stop playing, people start dying. I wasn't jerking your chain when I say this baby can rack up 800k as a dps tanks.

 

Never have I claimed I can do more damage than a Vigilance or Focus, but it is manageable compare to those builds. By the way, Juggs and Guards in the games before this one didn't have any one shooting over 500k, which brings me back to 1 mil not being a common thing. I will say you did good with Vigilance and showing it can compete SOME OF THE OTHER CLASSES OUT THERE IN TERMS OF DAMAGE. I will give you that and my respect. (Like I said, I was just following you yesterday and nothing more, but believe what you want)

 

You might see you every now and then as I play GSF on my F2P account (GSF being this game saving grace), but until then see ya.

 

BTW, I didn't read the other post.

Edited May 1, 2015 by adproduction

[GrandLordMenace]

Nope, I really was following you the whole time or at least the I best I could. I died 3 times following you on the ground and 6 times being flung off the bridge. I didn't really tried to fight anyone. (Hit a few stragglers here and there) Yes, I did 294k in a 8 man fight trying to follow you.

 

However, when I stop dicking around...

http://arhicks00.wix.com/home#!blank/cjw4

 

234k damage and fighting 2 exhumed gear healers in very last game. (400k in another game where stay in one area with little traffic) Killed both healer and killed a third. Also I came in the second round and it makes me wonder how much damage I would have racked up total if I were in the first round. (464k?) If this were an 8 man team...who knows. By no means am I captain bad-***, but when I stop playing, people start dying. I wasn't jerking your chain when I say this baby can rack up 800k as a dps tanks.

 

Never have I claimed I can do more damage than a Vigilance or Focus, but it is manageable compare to those builds. By the way, Juggs and Guards in the games before this one didn't have any one shooting over 500k, which brings me back to 1 mil not being a common thing. I will say you did good with Vigilance and showing it can compete SOME OF THE OTHER CLASSES OUT THERE IN TERMS OF DAMAGE. I will give you that and my respect. (Like I said, I was just following you yesterday and nothing more, but believe what you want)

 

You might see you every now and then as I play GSF on my F2P account (GSF being this game saving grace), but until then see ya.

 

BTW, I didn't read the other post.

 

Dude, the juggs and guardians on the Ebon hawk SUCK.

 

I am not even joking. Compare to the other guardians in these screenshots (soul is indeed in Vigilance, same with Zewn and Jendrick, though Zewn did not stance dance and therefore was not skanktanking, so he's the closest representation of the average Ebon Hawk Guardian.)

 

http://imgur.com/aN0t4X5,IliOlFO

 

The problem is that most juggs and guardians overemphasize ravage, when in reality, Vigilance's DoTs are our greatest strength. We have pressure that can rival hatred, something most players of our class repeatedly overlook.

Edited May 1, 2015 by GrandLordMenace

[Dalfurend]

However, when I stop dicking around...

http://arhicks00.wix.com/home#!blank/cjw4

 

You know, you are on the right track with screenshots! So good job.

 

Next time make sure to take the screenshot to show the DPS, because that's what is important. From the time remaining your DPS is about 1068, which isn't quite dps level. The other team was pretty bad looking at their numbers. Their dps was poop, the healing was around 1300 hps which is pretty terrible, and the other healer clearly didn't bubble.

 

Keep up the screens, but remember the relevant information.