Pyrotech Powertech PvP strategy

[TACeMossie]

Or you know, maybe your reading comprehension is not up to the task?

The majority of those bosses are either not stationary, have adds or target swapping etc.

 

Didnt stop me from hitting 4.9k in SM torque tonight by tunelling the boss with a dummy parse rotation.

And in HM, thats my job. The 2 sages deal with turrets while the 4th DPS (Another VG) specs plasmatech and deals with shoots lasers + fire devices.

The trick is using Hold the Line at the correct time, and positioning correctly.

Also note I'm almost never standing still when I dummy parse as to stay in practice for when I have to chase things.

Anyway... in every fight I mentioned, if you are Tactics/AP specced, your job is boss tunnel. If your job is to help with adds, then spec Pyro!

 

As a final note... Bosses dont have DCDs to screw with your maths. Players do.

[cs_zoltan]

Your straw man argument is getting really tiresome.

 

First of all it's an universal thing I'm talking about, not just AP and Pyro specific.

Second, the fact is that you have to adapt to what the bosses do, unless they act EXACTLY (emphasis on the exactly in case you haven't noticed) like a dummy. Just like in PvP. I can get off dummy rotation there as well...

 

And yes players use defensive cooldowns, but unless you are trying to convince me that they only use them when fighting AP and not Pyro it's totally irrelevant.

[Zoom_VI]

Just like in PvP. I can get off dummy rotation there as well...

Sure you can. But the thing is, the dummy rotation even in cases where you can get it off, is suboptimal.

Example, in a PvP environment my typical opener in most situations is

Plastic > Mag (unless setbonus is on CD then it's sticky) > Cell Burst > HiB > Gut or SS* > Mag > HiB

 

Although often if in already in combat I'll get 3 stacks then select target > Plastic > sticky > Hib > Cell > SS > HiB

 

Now I don't need either of you to tell me all the things that are wrong with those in terms of DPS, especially starting with using HiB without gut. But in PvP that's still the best way to do it since we are dealing with variable target HP.

[Aetideus]

Your straw man argument is getting really tiresome.

 

First of all it's an universal thing I'm talking about, not just AP and Pyro specific.

Second, the fact is that you have to adapt to what the bosses do, unless they act EXACTLY (emphasis on the exactly in case you haven't noticed) like a dummy. Just like in PvP. I can get off dummy rotation there as well...

 

And yes players use defensive cooldowns, but unless you are trying to convince me that they only use them when fighting AP and not Pyro it's totally irrelevant.

 

I tend to agree with that regarding AP/Pyro in general. Regarding stealth classes though, the calculations go out of hand. There is no straightforward way of simulating Sin/Op output. There are valuable results from AP/Pyro boss parses sure.

Imo two are the problems with Pyro compared to AP:

- Must stand in the middle of fight without 30% area/cc dr.

- Lacking APs burst as dcd.

A solution to both is reducing Superheated channeling.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Aetideus

[Akulakha]

Ok I have to admit that the argumenet I read here was very very interesting but I have to ask still. Is pyrotech itself viable in ranked pvp if used from a pro's perspective? I've been pvping in mmos for 7 years now and believe me it doesnt take me long to master any particular spec but I wanted to ask everyones opinion cause while the posts were enlightening I'm still conflicted about whether I should go down with this spec or not or if I should just roll AP.

[MystbladeWA]

The original question apparently became meaningless as soon as these guys wandered in and started waggling their appendages at each other....

[Aetideus]

Ok I have to admit that the argumenet I read here was very very interesting but I have to ask still. Is pyrotech itself viable in ranked pvp if used from a pro's perspective? I've been pvping in mmos for 7 years now and believe me it doesnt take me long to master any particular spec but I wanted to ask everyones opinion cause while the posts were enlightening I'm still conflicted about whether I should go down with this spec or not or if I should just roll AP.

 

For the reasons stated above, it is AP for Arenas. Pyro is perfectly fine for wzs.

[AxeDragoneth]

Ok I have to admit that the argumenet I read here was very very interesting but I have to ask still. Is pyrotech itself viable in ranked pvp if used from a pro's perspective? I've been pvping in mmos for 7 years now and believe me it doesnt take me long to master any particular spec but I wanted to ask everyones opinion cause while the posts were enlightening I'm still conflicted about whether I should go down with this spec or not or if I should just roll AP.

 

Even if Pyro could sustain itself in a 4v4 setting, you are focused first because of being a powertech. What makes AP so superior is the fact that it has very little set up, very high burst, and just enough survivability to put out that pressure if they aren't absolute garbage. They are, however, very easy to burst down. The ability to burst an AP PT, coupled with their high burst if left alone, makes them the first target. This carries over to pyro because everyone's afraid of AP. The only difference is Pyro has little to no burst, crap survivability, and no answer to ranged dps whatsoever. It needs to be in melee range constantly to put out pressure and without AoE reduction that's tough. There's a 15% DoT reduction in pyro but that's not nearly enough with all the dotcleaving. AP also has 30% stun reduction where Pyro does not, which makes it that much easier to destroy a pyro pt before they can even put out a full rotation, which consists of three dots, three moves that you're lucky to get 9k on, and a 3s channel.

 

I've made it work in 4s, and tanked for teams that made it work, but the skill levels between the enemy teams and my own were lopsided in our favor...

Edited May 9, 2015 by AxeDragoneth

[Aetideus]

Even if Pyro could sustain itself in a 4v4 setting, you are focused first because of being a powertech. What makes AP so superior is the fact that it has very little set up, very high burst, and just enough survivability to put out that pressure if they aren't absolute garbage. They are, however, very easy to burst down. The ability to burst an AP PT, coupled with their high burst if left alone, makes them the first target. This carries over to pyro because everyone's afraid of AP. The only difference is Pyro has little to no burst, crap survivability, and no answer to ranged dps whatsoever. It needs to be in melee range constantly to put out pressure and without AoE reduction that's tough. There's a 15% DoT reduction in pyro but that's not nearly enough with all the dotcleaving. AP also has 30% stun reduction where Pyro does not, which makes it that much easier to destroy a pyro pt before they can even put out a full rotation, which consists of three dots, three moves that you're lucky to get 9k on, and a 3s channel.

 

I've made it work in 4s, and tanked for teams that made it work, but the skill levels between the enemy teams and my own were lopsided in our favor...

 

The only good thing for Pyro in Arenas is that is not top priority as AP is.

[AxeDragoneth]

The only good thing for Pyro in Arenas is that is not top priority as AP is.

 

But it's still just as easy-even easier-to kill, thus making it target #1 anyway in most arenas.

[PlsDontStabME]

The only good thing for Pyro in Arenas is that is not top priority as AP is.

 

Well i can tell you as Pyro, you are gonna be targeted first all the time, every single game, every single time, and how I know that - beacuse i main Pyro.

[mjamal]

The fact of the matter is that the majority of PVPers out there on most servers DON'T EVEN PLAY RANKED. You think i'm lying? Please check the PVP forums or individual server forums and see thread after thread of qq regarding the lack of Rank queue pops. The majority of the PVP player base runs around in Warzones, and in Warzones.. PYRO/Plasmatech IS HELLA FUN TO PLAY and very effective.

 

My own experience once I made the switch from Tactics/AP to Plasmatech/Pyro (I play both VG and PT) is that I did 2-3x more damage and my kill #s went up significantly in Reg as well as my personal fun ratio.

[Zoom_VI]

My own experience once I made the switch from Tactics/AP to Plasmatech/Pyro (I play both VG and PT) is that I did 2-3x more damage and my kill #s went up significantly in Reg as well as my personal fun ratio.

 

You do 2-3x more damage because it's a dotspec with a dotspread. And for the record dotspreading is extremely weak in 8v8 regs because of the time limitations on objectives.

 

You get more kills because kills are what would be called "assists" in most other games, i.e. you helped damage a player that ended up dying. Dotspecs naturally have really high kill counts because all those weak dots you leave everywhere give you credit for kills even when you did little to actually kill the guy.

 

Pyro is great for playing for the scoreboard, however in terms of actually winning it's terrible

[mmmbuddah]

With my current gear setup, the Plasmatize dot crits for around 1.4-1.7k depending on the target. While it's not overpowering, it does help create the appearance of burst when single target dpsing someone. Both dots ticking at the same time plus a good Shockstrike crit followed by the instant crit of High Impact Bolt combined with two rockets will do around 16-20k. While not the same as the burst of Tactics, it's still legit as a sustained DPS spec.

 

Plus, I do think the Plasmatize dot is the longest running dot among all the disciplines and easily has the most visually annoying effect.

 

Plasmatech's damage is there, it's just that the defenses are rather weak. If I'm not leading the warzone in damage, I'm close or comparable. My best so far has been a 2620 damage per second match. But I do need to be very careful of when I make my way into the crowd for DPS pushes. Tactics players can spend a little extra time wading into the muck with their damage reduction passive's and Sonic Round's defensive chance increase. With Plasmatech, if I don't have a tank or another melee class being the main focus when I'm in deep, I make sure to to do my thing and get out of there and look for another chance of when to go in deep again.

 

I would really like to know your stats, because as far as I can see, in warzones my plasmatize does a max of 1 k crits, even with all power / mainstat augments.

 

Edit :Hmm, I guess it is a secret becaues this is the second time I Asked and you just did not give a response.

Edited June 26, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[Saprezzan]

I haven't played as a Pyrotech for that long, but here's my 2 cents:

 

1. Advanced Prototype has much better survivability - namely Stabilized Armor and Energy Rebounder. Especially the former is huge with 30% decreased damage while stunned (which in PvP, is pretty damn often). While Pyrotech gets piddly 15% decrease in DoT damage (Flame Suit) received and a 30% damage reduction effect plastered onto Kolto Overload (Automated Defenses).

 

Pyrotech used to have 30% decreased damage while stunned, which was one of its high points.

 

I see no reason why Pyrotech should have inferior defenses than Advanced Prototype, especially if we're expected to get stuck in with the flamethrower quite often.

 

Proposed Solution: Give Pyrotech Stabilized Armor and Flame Suit to the AP or redesign Flame Suit.

2. Superheated Flamethrower lacks proper punch - for an ability that's fairly difficult to land in a PvP environment it really doesn't deal that much damage. Most reliable way to land is to use our AoE stun. But when you do (or when the enemies graciously bunch up) land it, it really doesn't seem to affect the fights that much - I've rarely seen anyone react to it.

 

Proposed Solution: Let it stack 3 times or increase the snare to 75%. That way even if it doesn't deal that much damage, it'll set up the kills for the rest of the team. I'm partial to more debuff effects actually, like Flame Barrage's Overwhelmed mechanic. That'd give the Pyrotechs a more clear role too.

 

3. Scorch - deserves its own paragraph. It might be decent in PvE, but it's positively awful in PvP, 30 seconds is simply way to long to do any good in such environment.

 

Proposed Solution: Decrease the duration to 15-20 seconds. Won't affect PvE too much, but it'll be a huge difference in PvP. Though truth to be told, something like Operative's Volatile Substance would fit a lot better.

 

4. Closing thoughts - Pyrotech, at least for me, lacks a clear vision. We've got good AoE, decent DoTs and single target damage, which makes it rather muddled. I think that the class needs its own niche, as Lethality/Ruffian already fills the DoT role. What I think could be interesting is a more prominent debuffer role - give the Pyrotech tools that help the team overcome their enemies (be it in PvE or PvP).

 

What could it be? The possibilities are endless: healing debuffs, marking targets so that the team would deal increased damage to them (already partially in the game, but it does sound very bounty hunter-ish, doesn't it?), debuffing target primary stats, debuffing targets' defenses, more roots etc.

[DarthBubba]

I recently switched from Advanced Prototype to Pyrotech because I was bored of the AP rotation and so far I am loving it. The guide on Dulfy helped a ton but unfortunately it only applies to PvE. So my question is this: what is the best strategy for Pyrotech in PvP? Because I see 2 different ways of playing:

 

1. Ruffian/Lethality style: what I mean by this is I could go around double dotting everyone with Scorch and Incendiary Missle. Then, I "combo off" on an unsuspecting target with Flaming Fist -> Rail Shot -> Flame Bust -> Immolate -> Flame Burst -> Flame Thrower.
   
2. Single target style: pick a target and use the PvE rotation suggested in the Dulfy guide on the target.
   

 

Which one generates the highest DPS? Scorch is a 7k DoT, and Incendiary Missile is a 3k DoT (I think? I can't remember), so if I DoT as many enemies as possible before starting a single target rotation, there's a lot of "ambient" damage. Do I do more damage over the same amount of time it would take to double DoT as many enemies as possible and then use a single target rotation on one of them if I just use the Dulfy rotation on each target?

 

Hmm, I might have to try an AP PT then. Tedious is my middle name. Actually I was looking for an easy class to pvp with, something where I won't have a horribly difficult rotation, just basically something a little more forgiving where I can go in and spam a few buttons just while I'm getting used to the pace of pvp again. I haven't played in years and this combo might be perfect for me to learn everything again. So thank you for posting this, sorry I wasn't much help to you. I was just looking around the forums trying to find an easy class to pvp with when I stumbled upon your post. I haven't touched my Trooper in years. Time to dust him off a bit.

[Lalainnia]

Something that confuses me for this spec is that it seems very locked into how it's suppose to deal damage like no freedom what so ever especially for flamethrower you either need to have hydraulics up for every flamethrower which is possible if talented for it or use flame punch thing before flamethrower for the root and ofc stuns but im looking at a consistent basis.. Also why does this spec not have 30m range on both dots? and it's periodic DR is only 15%, shouldn't it be 30%? Not to mention rockets do nothing special in this spec ...they really should meh spec is strange fun but strange.

[Arehonn]

I would really like to know your stats, because as far as I can see, in warzones my plasmatize does a max of 1 k crits, even with all power / mainstat augments.

 

Edit :Hmm, I guess it is a secret becaues this is the second time I Asked and you just did not give a response.

 

Sorry, I haven't looked at this in awhile.

 

Full 174's with all of my augs towards aim. I also use a matrix cube as my second relic on my Plasmatech.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Arehonn

[Nezyrworks]

For me, the only way Pyro could work in arenas would be when he would go above 45k hp with ion cell and shield generator as a second Guarding guy (guard on the other DPS) in the team, provided, that you will go skank on your main tank (and yet i am convinced, pure tank spec with dps gear on mid endurance would do it better than the pyro). This increases his survivability while allowing team to become pressure comp. Of course it’s not energy efficient, and requires a lot of tinkering, but otherwise Plasmatech is just NOT able to withstand focus on him period.

 

Lack of DCDs, and passive defense procs just makes him that much worse, than the other two specs we can utilize.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Nezyrworks

[Aetrus]

I think Pyro PT might be the worst DPS spec in the game for PvP with the possible exception of Engi Sniper. It reminds me of Madness Sins from 2.0 until they were buffed in 2.8, just completely awful in every facet. Squishiest spec in the entire game, no burst, no mobility. No reason to play it. It doesn't even pump out noticeably higher damage in regs. My record in AP is 2.3k DPS, my record in Pyro being 2.7k. And that was a Novare where people were stacked on south node the entire time.

 

Don't worry though guys, in 4.0 we get 15% increased crit chance on Immolate.

[Feddot]

I have two questions abouy pyro in pvp:

1) Is it a good idea to have some alacrity in this spec?

2) Shall i use FT against one enemy or better just spam FB?

Thank you for help

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I have two questions abouy pyro in pvp:

1) Is it a good idea to have some alacrity in this spec?

2) Shall i use FT against one enemy or better just spam FB?

Thank you for help

 

1. I'd experement with both High, Low, and No Alacrity. But, that's my personal opinion.

 

2. Use it against 1 enemy, and also you should have Suppresive Tools/Entangling Heat for the 50% Slow, you could also experiment with using Flaming Fist/Shockstrike before using Flamethrower/Pulse Cannon for the 2s Root, you might lose some DPS on Rail Shot/HiB, but you would gain the ability to get more damage from FT/PC.It also spreads Incend Missile/Round, so if you hit other targets while doing it, that's icing on the cake.