Sever Tendon

[WickedImage]

Dear Wise Dev team,

I would like to petition for a 20m buff to the current 10m range on sever tendon.

Further, I'd really like to see the 2 second root buffed to 4 seconds to allow me time to catch up and actually put some dps on them? Otherwise there's no point to the buff at all right?

(For some reason I don't use debilitate while they are close enough besides they would just cc break it anyways.)

And moving right along....

Flashbang is for bigger groups and shouldn't be used on a single target. There is absolutely NO WAY I can burn roll to follow kiters, that would be stupid since I may need it to avoid incoming attacks lol. So the only reasonable thing to do is buff sever tendon to 30m range instead of its lackluster 10m, make it a 4s root instead the paltry 2s it is now, and maybe throw in a slight dmg buff? I would also settle for changing it to a 30m range, 4s mez type power.

I mean, what else can we do? Rifle shot someone to death on ops at 30m?

 

Ops are going to need this type of change to be competitive in today's game. Please join the cause!

[Saikochoro]

Dear Wise Dev team,

I would like to petition for a 20m buff to the current 10m range on sever tendon.

Further, I'd really like to see the 2 second root buffed to 4 seconds to allow me time to catch up and actually put some dps on them? Otherwise there's no point to the buff at all right?

(For some reason I don't use debilitate while they are close enough besides they would just cc break it anyways.)

And moving right along....

Flashbang is for bigger groups and shouldn't be used on a single target. There is absolutely NO WAY I can burn roll to follow kiters, that would be stupid since I may need it to avoid incoming attacks lol. So the only reasonable thing to do is buff sever tendon to 30m range instead of its lackluster 10m, make it a 4s root instead the paltry 2s it is now, and maybe throw in a slight dmg buff? I would also settle for changing it to a 30m range, 4s mez type power.

I mean, what else can we do? Rifle shot someone to death on ops at 30m?

 

Ops are going to need this type of change to be competitive in today's game. Please join the cause!

 

Hmm...making sever tendon 30m would be interesting. Changing it to a 4 second mezz would be fun...I mean its not like we have any way to counter roots or other ranged attacks. But you forgot something...the second you mezz someone some derp will break it...or if you have one of your dots on them it will break it. That just won't do.

 

I suggest the following change to your proposal...instead of making it a 4 second mezz you might as well just make it a 4 second stun, but only filling resolve 1/3. Of course they would need to look into the scoundrels one to make sure it doesn't break the game.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Saikochoro

[WickedImage]

I hadn't thought about derps or dots, thanks for pointing that out. Both great points. I think "maybe" a hard stun for 4s could be op. Although if they are 30m away, it's not like I can really attack them so maybe a 4s stun wouldn't be so bad?

I'd be ok with a 4s root though. I can always use evasion to minimize incoming damage as I face-tank walking to them, plus I can use sneak to speed up the process. I don't mind burning that since it resets with cloaking screen.

Anything else we may have forgotten?

[Haystak]

I hadn't thought about derps or dots, thanks for pointing that out. Both great points. I think "maybe" a hard stun for 4s could be op. Although if they are 30m away, it's not like I can really attack them so maybe a 4s stun wouldn't be so bad?

I'd be ok with a 4s root though. I can always use evasion to minimize incoming damage as I face-tank walking to them, plus I can use sneak to speed up the process. I don't mind burning that since it resets with cloaking screen.

Anything else we may have forgotten?

 

4 second mez with 1 second root if broken. BLAMO Low slash for scoundrels.

[Saikochoro]

I hadn't thought about derps or dots, thanks for pointing that out. Both great points. I think "maybe" a hard stun for 4s could be op. Although if they are 30m away, it's not like I can really attack them so maybe a 4s stun wouldn't be so bad?

I'd be ok with a 4s root though. I can always use evasion to minimize incoming damage as I face-tank walking to them, plus I can use sneak to speed up the process. I don't mind burning that since it resets with cloaking screen.

Anything else we may have forgotten?

 

Naw the range should stay as that was the problem in the first place right? We don't have good aoe so we might as well have good control right?

 

Plus the most mobile ranged spec is a sorc. The can just use their stun breaker for the 30m stun and then when we go up and debilitate them they can just use barrier...2 stun breakers...no problem. I mean if evasion and cloaking screen are counted as root breakers for us (and I can't think of a better reason for cloaking screen than to break roots with it)...then shouldn't sorcs just use barrier as a stun breaker?

 

OMG ....by saying that I just found a new problem....sorcs will be untouched by it because they have 2 stun breakers. New change...not only should sever tendon be a 30m 4 second hard stun, but it should also act like e-net (except better in that stun breaker won't work on it) for the duration....that would make it worthwhile.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Mirthadrond]

I never thought it made sense that I could only throw my knife 10 meters, so I say yes to 30.

 

It should be a 4 second root.

 

For mezzing purposes, we should be allowed to use Tranquilizer Dart, up to 30 meters and should be allowed to use it out of stealth. Again, doesn't make sense that we can only use it while stealthed. A tranquilizer is a tranquilizer. Doesn't matter if you know it's coming or not, the chemicals still work.

 

I think these tools will make Concealment Operatives much more competitive but not OP.

 

I will suffer the lack luster damage, if granted better control.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Mirthadrond

[althene]

I never thought it made sense that I could only throw my knife 10 meters, so I say yes to 30.

 

I'm not sure what system of measurement you usually use, but throwing a knife 10 meters with any degree of power and/or accuracy is actually quite a feat. Additionally, most modern day civilian gunfights only occurs at a range of between 3 and 6 feet. 10 meters is roughly 30 feet. That's probably further than the distance accross your typical living room. I understand we're not talking about gunfights here, but I use to to illustrate the average range of the typical "close" engagement.

 

But I digress. I like the idea of sever tendon having the root/mez/stun mechanic, but I feel the 10 meter range is somewhat justified given the highly melee aspect of the class. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying so, but I always thought of our stealth mechanic as our gap closer anyway. And with all the ways we can enter and exit stealth, the idea was to continually engage and disengage at our leisure in order to break down an opponent if they couldn't be butted down in the initial engagement.

 

Granted, that's a purely 1v1 scenario concept, but ops have lots of tools for dealing with other scenarios as well.

[Adovir]

 

A tranquilizer is a tranquilizer. Doesn't matter if you know it's coming or not, the chemicals still worj.

 

And thank god too, or else that girl would have made never came home with me

 

I'm not sure what system of measurement you usually use, but throwing a knife 10 meters with any degree of power and/or accuracy is actually quite a feat. Additionally, most modern day civilian gunfights only occurs at a range of between 3 and 6 feet. 10 meters is roughly 30 feet. That's probably further than the distance accross your typical living room. I understand we're not talking about gunfights here, but I use to to illustrate the average range of the typical "close" engagement.

 

But I digress. I like the idea of sever tendon having the root/mez/stun mechanic, but I feel the 10 meter range is somewhat justified given the highly melee aspect of the class. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying so, but I always thought of our stealth mechanic as our gap closer anyway. And with all the ways we can enter and exit stealth, the idea was to continually engage and disengage at our leisure in order to break down an opponent if they couldn't be butted down in the initial engagement.

 

Granted, that's a purely 1v1 scenario concept, but ops have lots of tools for dealing with other scenarios as well.

 

Compairs modernday civilians to highly trained spec ops agents to justify not having a 30m sever tendon

[dego-harmonium]

I don't understand why you would need the longer range, its use is for pinning down fleeing oppontent's or controlling a mDPS attacking your teammate for a quick peel, and its still not going to work on a target with overides/force speed.

 

Increasing pin down to 4 seconds would in theory allow you to hold a player in one place for 12 second without filling their resolve bar

 

 

Just make the pin down skill a passive so we could possibly pick up a defensive in its place, overall the skill is fine concealment just lacks a bit of survivability, they are good in the CC department. I would rather have crippling slice/Pin down over force slow/lowslash, I like CC'ing folks without building resolve, call me crazy

 

I have been playing concealment since 3.0, I really don't heal on my operative that much anymore or play lethality at all because its trash, aside from not being viable for competitive ranked the spec is in a good place, maybe even a bit unbalanced vs some AC's, the only dps classes that can be rough are PT/Guardians if the player is competent

Edited April 9, 2015 by dego-harmonium

[Haystak]

Increase the range to Shank Shot to 10m is a better Idea.

 

30m abilities on a scoundrel should not be part of a regular rotation, why sins have it is beyond me.

[dego-harmonium]

Increase the range to Shank Shot to 10m is a better Idea.

 

30m abilities on a scoundrel should not be part of a regular rotation, why sins have it is beyond me.

 

wouldn't be surprised if CT has its ranged nerfed to something around 15m for hatred. They have to do something when 80% of the top ranked players are three AC's

Edited April 9, 2015 by dego-harmonium

[Haystak]

wouldn't be surprised if CT has its ranged nerfed to something around 15m for hatred. They have to do something when 80% of the top ranked players are three AC's

 

Pretty sure they dont.

 

This game has been all about 3 acs dominating. In fact its par for the course. What irks me is that is always seems to be the same 4 or 5 acs, and they just rotate spots.

[zZeroAgent]

I don't really think this is needed

 

I don't have trouble being kited by any class other than Sorcerers, but that's just more due to Sorcs being stupidly ridiculous. Maybe reduce their mobility and suddenly every melee class is more viable

[WickedImage]

I don't understand why you would need the longer range, its use is for pinning down fleeing oppontent's or controlling a mDPS attacking your teammate for a quick peel, and its still not going to work on a target with overides/force speed.

 

Why I would need it? Because I can't use it beyond 10m that's why brother. It's currently impossible to use on anyone beyond 10m. Do you know how easy it is to get 10m+ away from someone?

 

Increasing pin down to 4 seconds would in theory allow you to hold a player in one place for 12 second without filling their resolve bar

 

Actually, because of powers like talented force speed, force shroud, hydraulic overrides, etc. this would not always be the case. In fact it may never be the case as the only classes you see in pvp all have root breakers or immunity up the kabooshka like the classes I've just mentioned do. Plus they can fight back and use abilities while rooted, so...?

 

Just make the pin down skill a passive so we could possibly pick up a defensive in its place, overall the skill is fine concealment just lacks a bit of survivability, they are good in the CC department. I would rather have crippling slice/Pin down over force slow/lowslash, I like CC'ing folks without building resolve, call me crazy

 

Hey I'm down for a freebie, but due to kiting sorcs I really think this needs to be 30m. Otherwise they will kite and kill me unless I stealth away to heal up! Nothing else works...

 

I have been playing concealment since 3.0, I really don't heal on my operative that much anymore or play lethality at all because its trash, aside from not being viable for competitive ranked the spec is in a good place, maybe even a bit unbalanced vs some AC's, the only dps classes that can be rough are PT/Guardians if the player is competent

 

Hey that's awesome. Welcome to the secret agents club!

Edited April 9, 2015 by WickedImage

[dego-harmonium]

@WickedImage i think we may just play the class differently and while i mainly healed from 1.2. through 2.X i would still frequently play concealment and currently its possibly in the best place its been

 

while having a 30m range on ST would be nice but generally targets that you are not attacking are not running from you so personally I do not find the need to root them before i attack them and it most cases they would be free from the root by the time you reached them if you are using it from that far away

 

HO can be easily countered with a well placed Debilitate, or a try hard grenade and there isn't much you can do for talented force speed which is fair

 

Also, positioned correctly you can avoid most attacks while behind the target, I prefer CS/ST to a hard stun and save my hard stuns for the more pesky cooldowns

Edited April 9, 2015 by dego-harmonium

[Mirthadrond]

@WickedImage i think we may just play the class differently and while i mainly healed from 1.2. through 2.X i would still frequently play concealment and currently its possibly in the best place its been

 

while having a 30m range on ST would be nice but generally targets that you are not attacking are not running from you so personally I do not find the need to root them before i attack them and it most cases they would be free from the root by the time you reached them if you are using it from that far away

 

HO can be easily countered with a well placed Debilitate, or a try hard grenade and there isn't much you can do for talented force speed which is fair

 

Also, positioned correctly you can avoid most attacks while behind the target, I prefer CS/ST to a hard stun and save my hard stuns for the more pesky cooldowns

 

Can't speak for you, but if ST had some range + decent root, I'd be using it to 'prevent' melee from closing on me immediately, so I can actually deal with the guy I'm attacking.

 

As a counter - Deception Assassins still have more utility, control, burst and now 30 meter offense / defensive ability.

All I'm asking for is a longer range root to keep up.

[Saikochoro]

I gotta say I really thought the rational operatives on this forum would flame the first few posts in this thread. I'm kind of disappointed. Or perhaps you guys could tell I was being completely sarcastic...hopefully that is the case. I was just hinting at how they messed up pubs low slash. Concealment doesn't need anything else at the moment. It is as close to my ideal of perfection without being op as I have played so far in this game.

[Saikochoro]

Can't speak for you, but if ST had some range + decent root, I'd be using it to 'prevent' melee from closing on me immediately, so I can actually deal with the guy I'm attacking.

 

As a counter - Deception Assassins still have more utility, control, burst and now 30 meter offense / defensive ability.

All I'm asking for is a longer range root to keep up.

 

Deception doesn't have higher burst...more consistent burst perhaps, but not higher. Concealment has much better sustained. Concealment wins hands down in pure damage contest in a fight. Deception does however have more anti cc, and more useful utility and control in team settings.

[Zoom_VI]

it's not like I can really attack them so maybe a 4s stun wouldn't be so bad?

 

We had 30m range 4s stuns at launch. They were removed for good reasons.

 

Honeslty I don't think any serious control effect should have 30m range at any time, I'm still pissed that they made low slash 30m.

[althene]

 

Compairs modernday civilians to highly trained spec ops agents to justify not having a 30m sever tendon

 

Actually, those distances were for all engagements civil and military that did not include the use of long arms, combined arms or artillery. The fact that the shotgun was so very common on the battlefield is parly due to this fact as is the advent of the sub machinegun class of firearms.

 

Additionally, professional (i.e. guys that do this for a living and are REALLY good at it) knife throwing takes place at 4 range classes: 7, 10, 13 and 16 FEET. These are the minimum ranges, and compititions allow competitors to stand furher away, but that only makes the throw more challenging. That's not to say longer ranges aren't possible, just not efficient or effective. At a certain point, barring mechanical augmentation, the knive throw stops becoming a trajectory and starts becoming an arc, thereby losing velocity and impact in order to gain accuracy.

 

So again, in a combat situation, why would you handicap yourself by throwing your only weapon (or one of a handful) without the best odds of success?

 

Once again, I digress. I still agree that some form of utility root or stun would be a welcom aspect of sever tendon, but not the 30m range.

[Adovir]

I gotta say I really thought the rational operatives on this forum would flame the first few posts in this thread. I'm kind of disappointed. Or perhaps you guys could tell I was being completely sarcastic...hopefully that is the case. I was just hinting at how they messed up pubs low slash. Concealment doesn't need anything else at the moment. It is as close to my ideal of perfection without being op as I have played so far in this game.

 

I think we all decided to go with sarcasm on this one, flaming it would have been too easy, I mean if the devs can make a joke about PVP then I think it's safe for us to make a joke. Honestly a better root break is all that's needed for anti kiting but even then perma roots aren't really a thing for us

[WickedImage]

I gotta say I really thought the rational operatives on this forum would flame the first few posts in this thread. I'm kind of disappointed. Or perhaps you guys could tell I was being completely sarcastic...hopefully that is the case. I was just hinting at how they messed up pubs low slash. Concealment doesn't need anything else at the moment. It is as close to my ideal of perfection without being op as I have played so far in this game.

 

I gotta say I feel about the same as Saiko, which he is quite aware of since I chatted him up before I started this silly boredom thread.

I am extremely disappointed more didn't pile on but hey...apparently the pile I made was too tall to climb lol.

 

Saikochoro, thanks for assisting me in my poor troll post effort. I was merely trying to point out and show folks how a 30m CC of any type on a melee is just silly. Guess I'm not strong in the troll force and need work

 

Anyways, screw all you bible thumpers who were to lazy to thump my thread.

Thanks to Mirthradond and Saiko for helping troll, I asked them to chime in ahead of posting the thread. And maybe Haystak? I couldn't tell if you helping or reserving yourself lol.

Adovir. I am a little disappointed you didn't come at me harder. I thought sure you'd be one to pinch me a bit on this crap I put here.

 

I think I could have gotten more bites in the pvp forum instead of the class forum, as Mirth pointed out to me yesterday.

Meh, live and learn.

Edited April 10, 2015 by WickedImage

[Haystak]

I think we all decided to go with sarcasm on this one, flaming it would have been too easy, I mean if the devs can make a joke about PVP then I think it's safe for us to make a joke. Honestly a better root break is all that's needed for anti kiting but even then perma roots aren't really a thing for us

 

Their are quite a few suggestions that are definately flame worthy, but by now most ops/scos know that even worthy suggestions are rarely taken by the devs for consideration. So many of our changes have come from way out in left field that its clear they look at the game mechanics much different than the players do.

 

Honestly I wish they would change that aspect of how they make changes, and focus more on asking the questions of.

 

How does my change effect the person casting it, and how does it effect the people its being cast on, and are these mechanics fun, or annoying for both the person casting it, and the person its being cast upon. Granted no is really going to 'enjoy' having an enemy cast something on them, but they can enjoy successfuly counterplaying the move, which for a lot of the changes made recently, their doesnt seem to be a "counterplay" to many of the newer abilities.

 

I dont mind seeing people make the suggestion of a super long distance root, or stun. To me those are still very counterable. The onyl thing that makes it negative is the number of BS situations it can create, that really doesnt make it fun or counterable for the players its cast upon.

[Mirthadrond]

Well damn it... if we can't have ST at 60 meters, then at LEAST allow me to equip a pistol instead of a rifle.

 

I'm getting SERIOUSLY tired of seeing my op pull out a pistol in cut-scenes. I've checked my gear!! I don't have one!!

I'd love one... and a rifle too... that would be cool, and my Op would look even MORE bad-assededly (just made that word up) than he does...

Edited April 10, 2015 by Mirthadrond

[Fellow-Canadian]

I don't really think this is needed

 

I don't have trouble being kited by any class other than Sorcerers, but that's just more due to Sorcs being stupidly ridiculous. Maybe reduce their mobility and suddenly every melee class is more viable

 

Agreed. Tendon blast is fine at 10m.

 

To those folks who want changes: Scoundrels have the best mobility in this game so if you can't make it work then this isn't the class for you.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Fellow-Canadian