Taking FORCE STORM off my bar.

[DarthKurt]

I can understand reducing the damage, the slow being removed was dumb, the channel time cut in half was well...

 

Cant even kill minions with it anymore it's kinda of

 

"Oh look that's the only ability not on cd it sucks but oh well"

 

Agree +1

 

Worthless Power Now

[DarthKurt]

Stop this pointless discuss. Screw FS/FQ it was OP and it was good decision to cut channel in half.

The real problem for sorcs/sages is that Madness/Balance still suck (1 sec window on demo... it's arround +15-20 overall dps... way the go bio...).

TK/Lightning as burst spec loose arround 10-15% (depends on crit ratio) on SINGLE target dps. What the hell?! On my mercenary in 186 commendation gear I gain more dps.

Great job BIOFAIL

 

Agree +1 Madness/Balance Still sucks

[AdmiralTran]

Good. All you scrubs using only force storm and force quakes in flashpoints and warzones, and thinking you're elite without having to worry about resource management, will now have to actually learn to play the class.

 

Sorcs and sages are still a great class. And their aoe capacity is still as good as or superior to every other class. It's just no longer a pathetic crutch. I love this change.

 

The tears about it are great, because all of you force storm fanatics that did NOTHING else the entire wz or fp were so infuriating to watch and so horrible at every other aspect of the game.

 

I agree. The nerf to Storm was a much needed change. I did see plenty of people in Flash points just spamming Storm on single targets along with multiple targets. I don't think that was intended for single target rotation, and people took advantage.... Thank you.

 

Now.... My single target damage nerf was completely unecessary! We all know that no one was using Balance in top progression guilds, which according to the developers' damage rotation philosophy/difficulty, sustained should out do burst damage. The sustained damage from madness is probably the worst in game, the burst damage from Lighting was in a very good place. Now that is gone.. Lighting is still viable in top progression, but why bring a sorc when you can bring a merc dps, and not be a disservice to your raid team. You will take much more damage compared to everyone else, which is fine if you didn't have to waste precious GCD's to keep applying static barrier on yourself.

 

Maybe your philosophy needs a tweak. Why can't the player passionate about playing a sorc, marauder, operative dps, jugg dps be able to play as one in top tier progression? It should'nt even be a question. You should've made that your focus to begin with. My friends that play WoW, just look at me confused when I talk about the ridiculous class imbalance in this game, and how disengaged the combat team is from the player base/community. You can continue to leave your occasional post about general class balance, but when there are literally HUNDREDS of specific posts about a detail regarding Lighting's single target nerf, you should give you community the same time and respect we give to your forums. The diversity in this game has diminished. You made this patch favoring Bounty hunters for raids.

[xordevoreaux]

Someone said in general chat a couple days ago "I just LOVE force storm!" and I /whispered to him you know, it used to have a snare, last twice as long, and do more damage. He replied I don't care, I love it!

 

So, as the newer crop of players comes and sees force storm / force quake, they don't know what they're missing and they think it's "awesome".

 

Which is probably what Bioware holds as a programming mantra: wait a year, no one who cares now will care then.

 

I've come to terms with the change. On my healer, I've given up using force storm and just heal my tank companion. On my lightning sorc, I moved to a different rotation for trash mobs in groups of 3+ : chain lightning, force storm which resets chain lightning, immediately interrupt force storm with another chain lightning. Pick off the stragglers with a single target attack.

 

Ocassionally, I find myself all timered out, don't know why, and I find myself in meelee, but usually only for a second. It's different from before where I could basically cast force storm, file my nails and wonder what decorations to get for my stronghold later, and then move to the next set of mobs, so maybe being forced to pay attention to what I'm doing is a good thing.

 

And as for the players coming after us who don't know any different, just remember, for them.... it's awesome!!

Edited April 30, 2015 by xordevoreaux
edit

[HungGaKungFuDUDE]

Good. All you scrubs using only force storm and force quakes in flashpoints and warzones, and thinking you're elite without having to worry about resource management, will now have to actually learn to play the class.

 

Sorcs and sages are still a great class. And their aoe capacity is still as good as or superior to every other class. It's just no longer a pathetic crutch. I love this change.

 

The tears about it are great, because all of you force storm fanatics that did NOTHING else the entire wz or fp were so infuriating to watch and so horrible at every other aspect of the game.

 

As someone who has played a sorc as a main since nearly the beginning, I have to agree with you

 

My sorc can still hit hard and stay alive; maybe not quite as well as before (can't 1v1 a good Jugg or Sent anymore in pvp), but still completely useful in most situations. Don't get me wrong, I think BW over-nerfed lightening, but it's not the end of the world. And FS was way too OP in 3.0

[Viraxis]

I understand Force Storm/Quake is no longer OP like it was before. However, looking at the dmg number tooltips, it still appears to be the best hitting ability when Telekenetic Wave is on cooldown and you have at least 2 people you are hitting with it. Admittedly I currently don't play a Sage that much, but I don't understand the complaining.

 

IF 2 people are close together and Telekinectic Wave is on cooldown, is there another ability to use (even twice based on cooldown and cast time) that would be better dps wise?

[ConsularKnight]

I have to agree with those voicing discontent. After this nerf the ability just feels wrong. And the damage is crap.

Really crap. It used to be such a cool ability. Now its just dead. I had to adjust my tactics and now use Whirlwind on a mob and single target kill them one at a time. Takes longer but is less frustrating. Bad move BW

Edited May 12, 2015 by ConsularKnight

[RifkaofRohan]

Don't bother replying unless you are a developer, employee, or actually play the class in a healing build. I don't care to hear your delusional insistence that the nerf was "needed", it wasn't. Changed to only activate when two or more targets are present in the target area, yes.. But not completely rendered useless.

If people using it as a single target overpower was the problem it could have easily been changed to only activate when more than one NPC or player is in the target range. Force quake and force storm was the ONLY AOE skill that we had and developers seem extremely intent on making EVERY quest/daily area full of nothing but hyper-sensitive mobs. There is rarely a single target. The change has made our class completely useless for questing and dailies in a healing build.

Don't tell me to switch to a damage build while questing or doing dailies:

Rebuilding from a healing stance to a damage build requires paying for the change as well as trying to remember exactly where I like my skills, and remembering exactly which trait tree skills I prefer for the build, so I'm not going to do that. I have to be functional to heal, quest, and do dailies as traited. Changing constantly is costly, time consuming, and more trouble than it's worth.

 

Either A. Repair Force Storm and Force quake back to pre-update strength and length making them only activate when two or more targets are within the target range. B. Remove "mobs" from the questing/daily areas. C. Give healing classes two builds (heal and damage) that always remain completely saved to all of our choices *trait tree and all* without paying to switch between heal build and damage build. Healers have to be functional for questing as well as group healing content.

 

Something needs to be done and a variety of solutions have been provided. Pick one and implement it ASAP!! Until this is resolved my server is loosing another level 60 group content healer. I'm shelving this toon to roll a DPS class character. Since people are leaving by the truck-loads I suggest the developers figure out how to fix this problem. Heaven knows you can't afford to loose any more subscribers. The servers are already full of complaints that there aren't enough players, even though the servers have already been merged at LEAST twice since the game started.

Stop listening to the whiners that force storm and force quake are OP and listen to the people who actually PLAY the class. There is a true need for that skill in its full strength and length of tick, just prevent single target activation. Or you can take out mobs in daily areas, or provide healing class characters with two full and complete SAVED builds to switch back and forth from (without cost) quickly and efficiently.

[Halinalle]

Either A. Repair Force Storm and Force quake back to pre-update strength and length making them only activate when two or more targets are within the target range. B. Remove "mobs" from the questing/daily areas. C. Give healing classes two builds (heal and damage) that always remain completely saved to all of our choices *trait tree and all* without paying to switch between heal build and damage build. Healers have to be functional for questing as well as group healing content.

 

It would be okay only if force cost was increased. With old/current force cost damage output is fine.

"But Snipers have overpowered AoE too!" you say. Well, spam it 3 times and check your energy bar. Source: I have level 60 Gunslinger and Sniper.

 

Stop listening to the whiners that force storm and force quake are OP and listen to the people who actually PLAY the class. There is a true need for that skill in its full strength and length of tick, just prevent single target activation. Or you can take out mobs in daily areas, or provide healing class characters with two full and complete SAVED builds to switch back and forth from (without cost) quickly and efficiently.

 

I leveled Sage as Seer from 10 to 4-something, can't remember. Try to guess what ability was most used even in single target situations? Forcequake. I admit it: I'm guilty. It wasn't really for damage but because enemies kept dying during Forcequake channel. If there was strong enemy I just finished it with TK Throw and ran to pull next group with Forcequake.

 

But now as TK I know things like Turbulence and TK Gust hit harder per Force spent or per GCD.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Halinalle

[jauvtus]

It's funny to see sorcs/sages crying like babies because they don't have an 8-man hitting AOE attack in their SINGLE TARGET rotation anymore. And it's not like that Force Storm is completely useless, still in the top AOEs in the game. Just compare it to Whirling Blow, Carbine Burst/Blaster Volley, Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash. Also check how many AOEs you can spam with BH, sniper or any other class and how many you can spam with sorcs/sages... L2P Edited May 26, 2015 by jauvtus

[Halinalle]

Just compare it to ... Carbine Burst/Blaster Volley

 

There's no comparison. Even with recent change to Carbine Burst/Blaster Volley, taking 25% damage increase Utility is a waste. Source: I have level 60 Scoundrel.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Halinalle

[RifkaofRohan]

It's funny to see sorcs/sages crying like babies because they don't have an 8-man hitting AOE attack in their SINGLE TARGET rotation anymore. And it's not like that Force Storm is completely useless, still in the top AOEs in the game. Just compare it to Whirling Blow, Carbine Burst/Blaster Volley, Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash. Also check how many AOEs you can spam with BH, sniper or any other class and how many you can spam with sorcs/sages... L2P

 

If you don't play the class, your opinion doesn't matter. If you think force storm or force quake is the top AOE in the game you don't play many classes.. I have one of every class, the AOE's for all of the other classes are quite HARSH. Especially the sniper's AOE

 

And clearly people can not READ.. I have no problem with the FS/FQ skill being limited to only activating if more than one target is in the target zone. This will eliminate the idiots who use the skill as a single target OP. Problem completely and utterly solved.

 

I hope your favorite class is next on the "nerf" list. I seriously think that the developers must have their own characters and PVP WZ's are all they play. They improve their favorite classes to play based on what helps them the most in PVP and nerfs the ones they don't play and nerfs the skills of those that they have lost under from other classes.

A Sage or Sorc in a HEALING build does NOT have any other useful way to deal with mobs. Every class in every build needs and deserves a good AOE skill. They should ALL be made to only function if two or more targets are in a target zone. That way everyone is fair, everyone is balanced, and everyone can effectively and efficiently deal with mobs. If you say a class or build doesn't deserve or need an effective AOE skill, you're a gaming idiot.

[RifkaofRohan]

I doubt that.

 

I completely agree with you. People who actually play the class are furious with the nerfed skill. I haven't seen anyone who's main is a healing sage or sorc say, "wow, I love my nerfed force storm/force quake." *SMH* They must think if they tell us enough that we didn't need the skill we will eventually just believe them.

[FerkWork]

I completely agree with you. People who actually play the class are furious with the nerfed skill. I haven't seen anyone who's main is a healing sage or sorc say, "wow, I love my nerfed force storm/force quake." *SMH* They must think if they tell us enough that we didn't need the skill we will eventually just believe them.

 

In fine with the changes. Still going strong on Lightening.

[jauvtus]

If you don't play the class, your opinion doesn't matter. If you think force storm or force quake is the top AOE in the game you don't play many classes.. I have one of every class, the AOE's for all of the other classes are quite HARSH. Especially the sniper's AOE

 

And clearly people can not READ.. I have no problem with the FS/FQ skill being limited to only activating if more than one target is in the target zone. This will eliminate the idiots who use the skill as a single target OP. Problem completely and utterly solved.

 

I hope your favorite class is next on the "nerf" list. I seriously think that the developers must have their own characters and PVP WZ's are all they play. They improve their favorite classes to play based on what helps them the most in PVP and nerfs the ones they don't play and nerfs the skills of those that they have lost under from other classes.

A Sage or Sorc in a HEALING build does NOT have any other useful way to deal with mobs. Every class in every build needs and deserves a good AOE skill. They should ALL be made to only function if two or more targets are in a target zone. That way everyone is fair, everyone is balanced, and everyone can effectively and efficiently deal with mobs. If you say a class or build doesn't deserve or need an effective AOE skill, you're a gaming idiot.

 

I said FS/FQ is ONE OF THE TOP. Clearly sniper AOE is the best, but pls consider how many times you can spam sniper AOE and how many times Force Storm? I'm saying FS/FQ is just good right now.

As for the 2nd part, I don't like arguing about a game getting personal. But if you are interested, I'm a sent watchman main, so thx I exactly know what nerfing is (since 3.0 continously). I also have all AC, only don't play Guardian/Jugg dps, Infiltration/Deception, Merc/Mando heal, Scrapper/don't remember the other and Sharpshooter/Marksman, I know all tanks, 2 heals and tons of dps. I'm also HM/NiM raider, don't have much time for PvP, but the PvPers I duel always acknowledge my skills, I do rather well in unranked. For sage/sorc heals dps: maybe you should get better dps, but again, what about scoundrel/op? They have horrible attacks and most of them are melee!! Still I don't see them crying for heal dps... But even mercs, they don't whine, neither can they spam Hail of Bolts/Sweeping Gunfire forever.

Edited May 26, 2015 by jauvtus

[DarthKurt]

Well, I've unsubbed... a big part of why is because of this very reason.

[MusicRider]

"But Snipers have overpowered AoE too!" you say. Well, spam it 3 times and check your energy bar. Source: I have level 60 Gunslinger and Sniper.

And you don't know that you can actually spam it twice the times? OK..... -_-

[MusicRider]

Don't bother replying unless you are a developer, employee, or actually play the class in a healing build. I don't care to hear your delusional insistence that the nerf was "needed", it wasn't.

Yes it was for TK. You are delusional thinking otherwise.

 

Changed to only activate when two or more targets are present in the target area, yes.. But not completely rendered useless.

If people using it as a single target overpower was the problem it could have easily been changed to only activate when more than one NPC or player is in the target range.

Terrible idea. Not only it will push so much CPU/GPU but it is also bad for gameplay, one example FQ/FS is used to interrupt a no LOS cap in pvp.

 

 

Force quake and force storm was the ONLY AOE skill that we had and developers seem extremely intent on making EVERY quest/daily area full of nothing but hyper-sensitive mobs. There is rarely a single target. The change has made our class completely useless for questing and dailies in a healing build.

So balance should be around time to do dailies. OK....

 

Don't tell me to switch to a damage build while questing or doing dailies:

Switch to a damage discipline. Or at least use a well geared dps companion (if you are a a sage you are the luckiest in this respect).

 

Rebuilding from a healing stance to a damage build requires paying for the change

If you are paying for changing discipline then it means you are not a subscriber who have it for free. As such you have a credit cap so it's not that reskilling prohibits you from making a fortune. Also the cost is pretty low.

 

as well as trying to remember exactly where I like my skills, and remembering exactly which trait tree skills I prefer for the build, so I'm not going to do that. I have to be functional to heal, quest, and do dailies as traited. Changing constantly is costly, time consuming, and more trouble than it's worth.

What? It took me 40-50s to retrain and be ready while there was the tree system. Now with the disciplines it takes like 20s. I am afraid this is a matter of getting to know your class and not just one tree.

 

Either A. Repair Force Storm and Force quake back to pre-update strength and length making them only activate when two or more targets are within the target range. B. Remove "mobs" from the questing/daily areas. C. Give healing classes two builds (heal and damage) that always remain completely saved to all of our choices *trait tree and all* without paying to switch between heal build and damage build. Healers have to be functional for questing as well as group healing content.

Alrady said, dumb idea.

 

Something needs to be done and a variety of solutions have been provided. Pick one and implement it ASAP!! Until this is resolved my server is loosing another level 60 group content healer. I'm shelving this toon to roll a DPS class character. Since people are leaving by the truck-loads I suggest the developers figure out how to fix this problem. Heaven knows you can't afford to loose any more subscribers. The servers are already full of complaints that there aren't enough players, even though the servers have already been merged at LEAST twice since the game started.

Stop listening to the whiners that force storm and force quake are OP and listen to the people who actually PLAY the class. There is a true need for that skill in its full strength and length of tick, just prevent single target activation. Or you can take out mobs in daily areas, or provide healing class characters with two full and complete SAVED builds to switch back and forth from (without cost) quickly and efficiently.

Nope it does not. The reasons that you present only demonstrate that you don't have understanding of all the disciplines as well as you can't be bothered to left click about 12 times. Not to mention that it's pretty obvious that suggesting that when buffing/nerfing a class the time to do dailies should be taken into account is pretty dumb.

Edited May 27, 2015 by MusicRider

[jauvtus]

Whenever I do any dailies on my healing sorc, I usually switch to Lightning and I have 0 problems with questing. I also levelled it to 60 with Corruption and I think I can count on my hand how many FS I used. I have 100% completion on it. *** is Ashara for?

[PaulusMaulus]

Yes, Force Quake/Storm was badly nerfed but it is still a great utility to stop node capping, door bombings and bridge laydowns. If I can't target the person on the door or node because of the number of bodies in the way, I just drop the AOE and problem solved. It does some damage but that is not as important as stopping node capture and the like. Also, peeps in the field can try to capture the node without being on it and dropping an AOE on the group disrupts capture. Edited May 27, 2015 by PaulusMaulus

[Master-Nala]

I have level 60s of every spec of Consular and even on my Healing Sage, I still think Force Quake is a decent AoE. It's not as awesome as it was. And, of course, they should have nerfed the utilities that made it OP and not the power, but it's not the end of the road. Nerfs happen.

[stephenalandavie]

Force storm is an Aoe it wasn't meant to do the dmg it did. Any aoe which does similar damage needs a nerf. In a wz where this is 8 v 8 or arena which are 4 v 4 An aoe doing that dmg is just ridiculous.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Dual spec would solve the OP's problem without upsetting balance, and has been requested since launch. It'd allow the OP to quickly toggle between heals for group content and DPS for solo without having to deal with the hassle of changing gear and/or quickbars that presently acts as a deterrent, i.e. "don't tell me to change my spec" and such.

 

I don't even bother doing solo PVE on my corruption sorc, because of the lack of dual spec. The nerf to FS was necessary for other specs but slightly overkill (IMO they should have left its duration alone but made the other changes) but it's really a red herring to distract from a solution to the OP's complaint--"don't force me to jump through so many hoops to change my spec for solo/group"--that would benefit everyone. Hell the OP even includes dual spec as one of the proposed solutions--"give healers access to DPS spec"--and we should be coalescing around supporting that rather than trolling for complaining about the FS nerf.

 

If dual spec was in game OP could easily swap to something with more punch for running dailies and back to heals for group content.

Edited May 28, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[Coloneli]

Dual spec would solve the OP's problem without upsetting balance, and has been requested since launch. It'd allow the OP to quickly toggle between heals for group content and DPS for solo without having to deal with the hassle of changing gear and/or quickbars that presently acts as a deterrent, i.e. "don't tell me to change my spec" and such.

 

I don't even bother doing solo PVE on my corruption sorc, because of the lack of dual spec. The nerf to FS was necessary for other specs but slightly overkill (IMO they should have left its duration alone but made the other changes) but it's really a red herring to distract from a solution to the OP's complaint--"don't force me to jump through so many hoops to change my spec for solo/group"--that would benefit everyone. Hell the OP even includes dual spec as one of the proposed solutions--"give healers access to DPS spec"--and we should be coalescing around supporting that rather than trolling for complaining about the FS nerf.

 

If dual spec was in game OP could easily swap to something with more punch for running dailies and back to heals for group content.

 

To me this just says your too lazy to use 30 secs to rearange a few abilities tbh.

[MusicRider]

Dual spec would solve the OP's problem without upsetting balance, and has been requested since launch. It'd allow the OP to quickly toggle between heals for group content and DPS for solo without having to deal with the hassle of changing gear and/or quickbars that presently acts as a deterrent, i.e. "don't tell me to change my spec" and such.

 

I don't even bother doing solo PVE on my corruption sorc, because of the lack of dual spec. The nerf to FS was necessary for other specs but slightly overkill (IMO they should have left its duration alone but made the other changes) but it's really a red herring to distract from a solution to the OP's complaint--"don't force me to jump through so many hoops to change my spec for solo/group"--that would benefit everyone. Hell the OP even includes dual spec as one of the proposed solutions--"give healers access to DPS spec"--and we should be coalescing around supporting that rather than trolling for complaining about the FS nerf.

 

If dual spec was in game OP could easily swap to something with more punch for running dailies and back to heals for group content.

 

Although yes it would be a QoL to be able to change gear/spec in a click of 1-2 buttons, and now it is easier to implement given that the outfit code can form the basis, but,

 

for sages:

- Time to respec: 20s (no need to even bother changing gear for dailies), 30-40s with gear changing (this is still less than the time it typically takes to get out of a loading screen)

- Time to do a daily, let's say BH is under 10mins, ie. 600s

- So basically the time to respect is about 3% of the time to do a BH daily... if there are more than one dailies the this time is less than 1% of the time spent.

- Clicking an auto-button is let's say 5s. Improvement would be in the magnitude of less than 1%.

 

Don't get me wrong I would welcome such QoL, but mostly for the tank/dps classes... Sages sorcs really have no issue with that, unless the player has no clue about the other trees in which I can't see how a one-button respec is going to make a difference.

 

Discussing whether the balance of an ability should be based on time to do dailies and time to respect is like a discussion whether to walk or drive to the corner shop next to your house, and then complaining that the car should be a Veyron cause a Golf is just not good enough.

Edited May 28, 2015 by MusicRider