Aetideus Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) A 4 sec soft stun used for nothing else than catching up to a target. Deception have great use of this because atm once you get out of 15 m of the sin, he cant do ****. Its usefull to stop a target out of reach, but in no way usefull as a pure damage attack, even now and its damage is reduced in that patch. It useful up to 15m. At 30m is OP. Edited April 7, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 There is a difference between giving them some help in regards to being kited, and eliminating the problem in its entirety. This in combination with electrocute, Force slow, etc... at what point am I going to be able to actually get any range on them at all? In the hands of the good ones that know the spec... this is trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) There is a difference between giving them some help in regards to being kited, and eliminating the problem in its entirety. This in combination with electrocute, Force slow, etc... at what point am I going to be able to actually get any range on them at all? In the hands of the good ones that know the spec... this is trouble. Nightmare more precisely. Dec assins are #1 trolls. Edited April 7, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) DF change is completely acceptable- sin is a melee class. Which is why the low slash change is completely unacceptable. 4 second mezz. 15 second cooldown. 30m range. Melee class. These things do not go together. Let melee be melee ffs. Deception could use some help, but this is certainly not the answer. Just like how cc immunity for immortal, rage, and fury is not the answer to them needing a little love either. BW does not know how to buff underpowered specs without screwing up the meta even further. Edited April 7, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 DF change is completely acceptable- sin is a melee class. Which is why the low slash change is completely unacceptable. 4 second mezz. 15 second cooldown. 30m range. Melee class. These things do not go together. Let melee be melee ffs. Deception could use some help, but this is certainly not the answer. Just like how cc immunity for immortal, rage, and fury is not the answer to them needing a little love either. BW does not know how to buff underpowered specs without screwing up the meta even further. In other words, so long as you can keep them at range, they're fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiguelGx Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Seriously one of the most ***? balances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandOfKane Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) It is not a stun...period. It is a mezz. Totally different. You can move and attack while you're mezzed? Wasn't aware of that. Edited April 7, 2015 by HandOfKane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixenRawR Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Ruffian ops do not spread dots at range...they actually have one of the worst dot spread mechanics in the game. It is going to improve slightly with the removal of upperhand cost on blaster volley, but it will still suck (and it is not ranged). I dont even use it honestly, all that to spread corrosive dart, barely worth my time to bind and use such a terrible power. At least no upper hand now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You can move and attack while you're mezzed? Wasn't aware of that. Lol. I think he means it breaks on damage. Which (in his eyes) makes it perfectly acceptable, which it isn't. The mez isn't the problem so much as the long range and nonexistent CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 In other words, so long as you can keep them at range, they're fine. Are you actually defending the ability of ANY class to have a 30m instant mezz that lasts for >25% of the cooldown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I dont even use it honestly, all that to spread corrosive dart, barely worth my time to bind and use such a terrible power. At least no upper hand now. That's the whole point. It wasn't worth the TA. Now there might be some instances where I use it...for example to pop someone out of stealth who vanishes or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandOfKane Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Lol. I think he means it breaks on damage. Which (in his eyes) makes it perfectly acceptable, which it isn't. The mez isn't the problem so much as the long range and nonexistent CD. I know, that was my point. That the only difference between a mezz and a stun is the break on damage. A pretty far cry from "totally different." I also totally agree that this was a very dumb change. Like Infiltration/Deception doesn't have enough CC already... Edited April 8, 2015 by HandOfKane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Are you actually defending the ability of ANY class to have a 30m instant mezz that lasts for >25% of the cooldown? Yea, because the only time a mez is truly dependable is in a 1v1. Maybe up the cooldown a bit, but other than that I have zero problem with it. I DO have a problem with all the roots, slows and stuns that melee are constantly forced to eat, while slow walking their way to a ranged that's pumping non stop dps at them. Roots don't affect resolve, but they might as well be hard stuns against melee classes. So yea, this was needed. Without a doubt. Edited April 8, 2015 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yea, because the only time a mez is truly dependable is in a 1v1. Maybe up the cooldown a bit, but other than that I have zero problem with it. I DO have a problem with all the roots, slows and stuns that melee are constantly forced to eat, while slow walking their way to a ranged that's pumping non stop dps at them. Roots don't affect resolve, but they might as well be hard stuns against melee classes. So yea, this was needed. Without a doubt. A mezz is extremely useful in coordinated play. Being able to use it so easily and so often is unacceptable, especially when it also has WW (insta cast talent or not). Yes, the root/slow/mobility meta is messed up for melee, but that does not justify this change. The answer to melee specs having bad mobility is not to evolve them into ranged classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Yes, the root/slow/mobility meta is messed up for melee, but that does not justify this change. It most certainly does. Roots and slows dont' affect resolve, and they're handed out like candy. Being a melee dps in this game is often an exercise in frustration, especially for specific classes, such as marauders and deception assassins. Edited April 8, 2015 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It most certainly does. Roots and slows dont' affect resolve, and they're handed out like candy. Being a melee dps in this game is often an exercise in frustration, especially for specific classes, such as marauders and deception assassins. You cannot fight broken with broken. I am very well aware of how frustrating it is to try to stay on target as a melee. Increasing the range of traditionally melee abilities to 30m is NOT the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You cannot fight broken with broken. I am very well aware of how frustrating it is to try to stay on target as a melee. Increasing the range of traditionally melee abilities to 30m is NOT the answer. THIS! for god sake this. The other side to that though is that the frustration works in both directions. Most ranged classes must kite to survive, if we dont you win 90% of the time. you get frustrated when you get kited, i get frustrated when i cant kite. If melee dps expects time on target to be 100%, then you need to get nerfed into the freaking stone age. Any logic tells us that for melee dps to be competitive they hit harder when on target to account for the fact that they are not always on target. if you are able to crazy glue yourselves to the target without being kited or otherwise losing GCDs then you should be nerfed. Flame away if you wish but that is the given reality of melee versus ranged, or dot specs versus direct damage specs... dots specs cant have the burst a damage spec has and sustained dots. You cant have it all people.. there has to be a break even point to make all the specs viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 THIS! for god sake this. The other side to that though is that the frustration works in both directions. Most ranged classes must kite to survive, if we dont you win 90% of the time. you get frustrated when you get kited, i get frustrated when i cant kite. If melee dps expects time on target to be 100%, then you need to get nerfed into the freaking stone age. Any logic tells us that for melee dps to be competitive they hit harder when on target to account for the fact that they are not always on target. if you are able to crazy glue yourselves to the target without being kited or otherwise losing GCDs then you should be nerfed. Flame away if you wish but that is the given reality of melee versus ranged, or dot specs versus direct damage specs... dots specs cant have the burst a damage spec has and sustained dots. You cant have it all people.. there has to be a break even point to make all the specs viable. I killed any ranged for fun even below the timeframe of the bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) You cannot fight broken with broken. I am very well aware of how frustrating it is to try to stay on target as a melee. Increasing the range of traditionally melee abilities to 30m is NOT the answer. It isn't broken, at least not in my opinion, bug of course not withstanding. I honestly get the impression that all these ranged people don't want their root/slow spam countered in any way. You get resolve free CC that is spammable at range, and you're crying about this? Roots are stuns for melee and slow is a death sentence in most cases, and with no long range abilities, they are sitting ducks against something that cannot be countered. Roots and slows don't build resolve, you can eat them all day long, and range are free to hump your face at their leisure. God forbid anyone has a chance to work against that. Edited April 8, 2015 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 If melee dps expects time on target to be 100%, then you need to get nerfed into the freaking stone age. Works both ways, skippy. You can't expect to kite everyone to the end of time, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Works both ways, skippy. You can't expect to kite everyone to the end of time, either. Nor did i say i should, in fact if you read the rest aside from what you quoted i say that there needs to be balance in this regard, Its part of the little game of chess i enjoy. This skill basically gives you 2 queens on the board, its overpowered and absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It isn't broken, at least not in my opinion, bug of course not withstanding. I honestly get the impression that all these ranged people don't want their root/slow spam countered in any way. You get resolve free CC that is spammable at range, and you're crying about this? Roots are stuns for melee and slow is a death sentence in most cases, and with no long range abilities, they are sitting ducks against something that cannot be countered. Roots and slows don't build resolve, you can eat them all day long, and range are free to hump your face at their leisure. God forbid anyone has a chance to work against that. Honestly, i know a lot of good Dec Sins that do just fine... but since you put it that way how am i supposed to counter you now? Did the other side of this even cross your mind? You have a ton of roots and slows and stuns yourself... plus some of the best burst in the game, instead of telling me i need to learn im kinda leaning towards you not really getting your own class if you think this makes any sense at all. The only way your scenario is true is if you have no cooldowns and i have all of mine, and im supposed to win that battle cupcake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Honestly, i know a lot of good Dec Sins that do just fine... but since you put it that way how am i supposed to counter you now? Did the other side of this even cross your mind? You have a ton of roots and slows and stuns yourself... plus some of the best burst in the game, instead of telling me i need to learn im kinda leaning towards you not really getting your own class if you think this makes any sense at all. The only way your scenario is true is if you have no cooldowns and i have all of mine, and im supposed to win that battle cupcake. Yes, and they're all melee range /boggle Mez builds resolve, and breaks on damage. Edited April 8, 2015 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It isn't broken, at least not in my opinion, bug of course not withstanding. I honestly get the impression that all these ranged people don't want their root/slow spam countered in any way. You get resolve free CC that is spammable at range, and you're crying about this? Roots are stuns for melee and slow is a death sentence in most cases, and with no long range abilities, they are sitting ducks against something that cannot be countered. Roots and slows don't build resolve, you can eat them all day long, and range are free to hump your face at their leisure. God forbid anyone has a chance to work against that. It is broken. Not because of its potential anti-kiting function, but because of its utility in a team environment. The ability to tab target ranged mezz a non-focused target every 15 seconds is not appropriate, especially not on a melee class, and especially when it already has a good mezz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlissDivine Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm hating the new 10 meter Death Field. I did play some Deception but it doesn't pump out the damage like Hatred does. Guess I'll level up my PT, they are still allowed to have some range attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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