Reasons, Bioware. We NEED REASONS!

[Kingsbount]

You obviously weren't a good player at your class then...not gonna say the whole "L2P" thing as that's just silly.. but yeah

 

Or you are blind enough to denie obvious?

[Viraxis]

The class was so OP in both PVE and PvP. It needed a good nerf. Let the crying begin.

[Orizuru]

I'll adapt. Maybe now we can see a variety of dps classes on raid nights instead of a small army of Sorcs from my guild.

 

My only concern is, does this modify the dps rotation priorities at all?

[ChroniKill]

I'll adapt. Maybe now we can see a variety of dps classes on raid nights instead of a small army of Sorcs from my guild.

 

My only concern is, does this modify the dps rotation priorities at all?

 

Depends if the buff from TK Gust has been increased to match the cooldown or not. If the same as the PTS (and I assume it is as this isn't mentioned in the patch notes), then the priority stays the same, provided, however, that Gust is not used in the two GCDs directly after MC, else the buff will have expired before MC comes off CD, causing you to delay MC for several GCDs whilst you wait for Gust to be available.

[polparohoda]

Personally, I feel for sorcs, I know they'll have it bad now, but I'm much more concerned about the axe that Serenity Shadows got. Those are not OP even in the wildest dreams and devs suddenly cut down what's left of their tactical versatility. WHY?? Can't say I've seen many Serenity's running around, and now there probably will be even less.

That's AOE skill with a 10 meter distance. Srsly? Are those huys for real?

[AlrikFassbauer]

Is the OP of this thread actually implying Sorcerers weren't over performing, or am I missing something?

 

I guess so, yes.

[Toroi]

Just returned to the game recently and was looking for a guild. Basically, everyone just spams LF commando dps for HM. So, clearly sages needed a nerf . . . .

 

Sages will be viable . . . if they heal. Then all the commandos and maybe a few smugglers can do all the dps. It just seems like the game I play and the game the devs work on aren't the same game.

[arunav]

As long as they buff Madness all will be well.

 

No, it won't. A lot of players don't like using DoT classes because they feel they are tedious. Also, because DoTs can't be cleansed in PvP, good luck with how well that will go.

[arunav]

Personally, I feel for sorcs, I know they'll have it bad now, but I'm much more concerned about the axe that Serenity Shadows got. Those are not OP even in the wildest dreams and devs suddenly cut down what's left of their tactical versatility. WHY?? Can't say I've seen many Serenity's running around, and now there probably will be even less.

That's AOE skill with a 10 meter distance. Srsly? Are those huys for real?

 

Again, it's balancing based on PvP. Given the nature of the current operations, the changes made Shadow dps even less desirable. Infiltration was the more difficult to use of the two.

 

What I really wonder is who was responsible for making 3.x, compared to previous parts of the game? It is so poorly thought out in comparison. Why make Operations that will last for likely the rest of the year that shut out so many of your dps ACs?

[ScarletBlaze]

Again, it's balancing based on PvP. Given the nature of the current operations, the changes made Shadow dps even less desirable. Infiltration was the more difficult to use of the two.

 

What I really wonder is who was responsible for making 3.x, compared to previous parts of the game? It is so poorly thought out in comparison. Why make Operations that will last for likely the rest of the year that shut out so many of your dps ACs?

 

I have always played Infiltration Shadow since the beginning (at launch). To me it is not the difficult to use.

[henriquecorseuil]

Sorry bud, but you will find nothing to clearly understand about all those stupid changes and nerfs. They won't tell you 'cuz they don't know what they do since 3.0 arrived.

 

Also, they will never answer you why the same way they don't about the worst classes to play at the moment, which are Sent's and Mara's. These classes are without doubt the worst to play. However, the best classes for playing were Sorcs and Sages UNTIL this new patch.

 

As I said in another thread about same thing, they are screweing and ruining the entirely game since 3.0 man, that's why all those nerfs aren't a real surprise to me.

 

Think about it: they can't even answer why the robes glitchs and keep clipping inside the speeder and mounts. They can't even answer why not fix the helmets for Twi'lek's. Or why sniper and blasters rifles appear floating in the back of character. Also, they don't even answer why lightsabers keep trespassing over robes and any other kind of equipment.

 

SO, do you really think they will give us a good reason of answer about the damm things they screw and ruin? Never.

 

But despite all odds, the only thing which may stop me playing is a price increasefor subbing... I'm hating probably ALL changes and idiot things they're doing since 3.0, but I still like this game and keep subbing and playing.

 

However, remember: "While there is life, there is hope." - Stephen Hawking (The best).

 

So, there will be always hope that they can do good changes and improvements....

Edited April 7, 2015 by henriquecorseuil

[Ghisallo]

Again, it's balancing based on PvP. Given the nature of the current operations, the changes made Shadow dps even less desirable. Infiltration was the more difficult to use of the two.

 

What I really wonder is who was responsible for making 3.x, compared to previous parts of the game? It is so poorly thought out in comparison. Why make Operations that will last for likely the rest of the year that shut out so many of your dps ACs?

 

No it wasn't. In PvE Soc/Sages were definitely over performing in terms of AoE dps. When your AoE abilities are strong enough to be part of your ST rotation they are too strong.

 

They also added some ST damage buffs so before people scream "this is for PvP!!!!" maybe ya'll shoud actually test the changes.

 

Please note I am not saying some of the adjustments were NOT over done. That is almost always the case, since class balance is a pendulum 9 times out of 10. That doesn't mean that you say "okay Sorc/Sages are over performing but because we just might overdo the necessary reduction leave them over performing.

 

AND before people say "why nerf at all...just buff everyone. The group PvE content is designed around X dps and Y hps to have a target difficulty level. If you just make everyone over perform in terms of the content it becomes trivial.

 

(PS Sage main and PvE is my place to play not PvP so no, not another class exercising some schadenfreude here.)

[Alssaran]

your inability to play the other class's better does not change the fact that the other class's out perform the sorc when played right.

 

Or maybe you cannot just get that head out of a certain part of that body of yours and actually learn to adapt to certain situations, rather than cry me a river on how everyone outperforms you. I have both a Sorc and a Merc. Both equally geared, both with parsed rotations for their spec. Both are performing just fine, with a mere 60-80 DPS difference depending on the encounter. Prove your theory, or stop bothering me.

 

But that's none of my business...

Edited April 7, 2015 by Alssaran

[Ferrnitty]

Sorc/sage sorry to be the one to tell you but.................YOU WERE OP!!!!! Now you have been made equal. Enjoy the game as it was intended.

 

 

THAT IS ALL!!!!

Edited April 7, 2015 by Ferrnitty

[Adaarye]

No reasons are necessary. BW is going to do what they think is best.

 

BW nerfed my main character making the game not enjoyable for me anymore. I nerfed my two subscriptions by 100 percent. I did what I thought was best.

 

No hard feelings, no accusations, etc etc. It's simple. I let my wallet speak for me.

 

Should I find a reasonable alternative in the 70 days I have prepaid, perhaps I'll feel differently. But for now, I won't pay another penny for Cartel Coins or game time.

[polparohoda]

Alright, let's say the balance is based on PvP.

That's strange, yknow. Because, say, Mara/Sent are as of now totally and horribly useless in PvP. And that's adding to their so-totally-not-OP in PvE.

 

And Adaarye and the likes: Sure, you can vote with your wallet, that's a sensible thing. But I enjoyed the game and want to enjoy it some more, and just up and leaving doesn't really serve that goal.

Edited April 8, 2015 by polparohoda

[ivanhedgehog]

They wont do as you say, for one standout reason, they do not know.

 

the devs have a complex system for balancing classes that they perceive as "OP".

 

 

they write down prospective nerfs on small pieces of paper, throw them in the air. all the ones that land on the ground they implement.

[JimDiamond]

No reasons are necessary. BW is going to do what they think is best.

 

BW nerfed my main character making the game not enjoyable for me anymore. I nerfed my two subscriptions by 100 percent. I did what I thought was best.

 

No hard feelings, no accusations, etc etc. It's simple. I let my wallet speak for me.

 

Should I find a reasonable alternative in the 70 days I have prepaid, perhaps I'll feel differently. But for now, I won't pay another penny for Cartel Coins or game time.

 

This ^

[DOHboy]

No reasons are necessary. BW is going to do what they think is best.

 

BW nerfed my main character making the game not enjoyable for me anymore. I nerfed my two subscriptions by 100 percent. I did what I thought was best.

 

No hard feelings, no accusations, etc etc. It's simple. I let my wallet speak for me.

 

Should I find a reasonable alternative in the 70 days I have prepaid, perhaps I'll feel differently. But for now, I won't pay another penny for Cartel Coins or game time.

 

I can't ROFLSTOMP everyone in 2 shots or less /ragequit

[aaronbeale]

Hi All,

 

A quote from Musco re: Sent/Mara

 

"As many of you know, there were changes made to the playstyle of Annihilation and Watchman in 3.0. This definitely seems to be a contentious change for some Marauder/Sentinel players. The last thing we want to do is to put a Discipline’s playstyle in a place that makes its players unhappy. We will keep an eye on this and look into possible playstyle changes in the future. We don’t want you to think that this is feedback that we are ignoring; it is just not something we will change in the short term."

 

The last thing you want to do hey??? Lets take the squishiest character in our game and make him MORE SQUISHY!! Dont get me wrong FS was OP and needed a little toning down but to do the other changes in lightning is cray cray!! Main is my Sorc and he still will be but talk about contradiction!!

 

I thought for the past 3 years I have been playing a PVE based game with PVP content, not a PVP based game with some PVE content, I know PVP has a place in our game but what is the priority?

[Nopkar]

So lets get this out of the way clearly and concisely: FORCE STORM was overpowered and needed its damage reduced.

 

WHY reduce its channel? the damage reduction was heavy handed, but I can deal, but WHY reduce the channel?

Also, please point me to the information used that determined ANYTHING ELSE was wrong with the sorcerer?

Was lightning flash overpowered enough to warrant an increased 3 second cooldown?

did lightning bolt skew the TTK by so much that it also needed a nerf? what about the differences already made by Force storm?

 

Now, at this time let me please repeat the top of the post: FORCE STORM was overpowered and needed to be nerfed.

 

back on track: We see leading TTK numbers across PVP with Snipers and Gunslingers, yet the Sorcerer had a global NERF and yet I do not see sniper or gunslinger touched ANYWHERE in the patch notes. Not even a single point.

 

This is a practice that was common back in the early 2000's of MMO life. Make sweeping changes to classes that are brought to attention but completely gloss over the leading ABOVE AVERAGE classes. Don't make just a single adjustment but instead strip them of any semblance of what the class should be used for while simultaneously 'fixing' the problem and ignoring everything else related to balance. *** are you doing Bioware?

 

FORCE STORM was OP. cool. Why did you change everything else? and why didn't you fix the other TWO classes that are over-performing?

[Ghisallo]

So, you ask for facts, and then when you are provided said facts, you disregard them by claiming that a website that accumulates data from the game is less relevant than some mystical universal datamine. Well, I think we can all agree that your post is garbage.

 

Facts are only as useful as their quality. Additionally the facts do not address the key issue. The issue at question was far more HOW the dps is achieved. An AoE should simply not be the key component of a ST rotation. Finally a voluntary parse site amounts to anecdotal evidence which is only of limited value.

[starrlorrd]

No reasons are necessary. BW is going to do what they think is best.

 

BW nerfed my main character making the game not enjoyable for me anymore. I nerfed my two subscriptions by 100 percent. I did what I thought was best.

 

No hard feelings, no accusations, etc etc. It's simple. I let my wallet speak for me.

 

Should I find a reasonable alternative in the 70 days I have prepaid, perhaps I'll feel differently. But for now, I won't pay another penny for Cartel Coins or game time.

 

I cant now even imagine progressing with me being the merc ( other are sorc, sniper and mara) on team where i HAVE PUTED descent numbers for other fellow team raiders ( past tense ofc, im certain no more 3.8 on Bulo with only 192 BiS gear, with Innovative Ordanance nerf its now 200-300 dps loss , dont even wana know when they really will get after nerfing it, i was always up for like 400-600 dps than rest, to get trough Bulo or Torque. Even more with Sorcs as i have seen and heard. Now it will be immposible or the teams will NEED to be only Mercs (for not to long it seems, hmm , all snipers dps ?? ). Total BS. The advantage of Mercs and Sorcs getting such good numbers was that other classes didnt need to be only Mercs and Sorcs to get trough those new fed up HM bosses. DPS check Bosses. RANGE MECHANICS BOSSES. How we will be supposed to get new gear with not even being able to get now trough Torque. Lemme say it again. TOTAL BS. They could easily buff other classes or change mechanics of fights to help us get trough HM content where more important is RAID AWERNESS not only sick dps numbers, u still need to know how to make them.. But no, they just want to do fake longevity of current exp with doing it even more difficult by pleasuring PVP. I know it shouldnt be a cakewalk but cmon instead raiding on HMs we are sentenced to stick with new SMs to death or what. Its gettin nowhere more and more and im as happy as quoted user that my sub runs out after Ziost update, just will check the planet and im off (no , u cant have my stuff) I Loved this game for its story not some ****in PVP and killing others on daily basis. So what u do the story over and over and u use guides, its for the pleasure of getting it urself, reading guide wont help u do enough damage to kill boss, only ur skill will , BioFail as it seems doesnt care about that anymore. I hope more and more people will realize this and just stop paying for the crap they are serving to the finest community in games which holds the best storyline ever.

 

Cheers

Edited April 9, 2015 by starrlorrd

[Kingsbount]

Facts are only as useful as their quality. Additionally the facts do not address the key issue. The issue at question was far more HOW the dps is achieved. An AoE should simply not be the key component of a ST rotation. Finally a voluntary parse site amounts to anecdotal evidence which is only of limited value.

 

Players have their data achived from... players.

And combat team have their data achived from... whatever they get it.

 

But you forgot onle little thingy... PLAYERS ARE THE ONE WHO ACTUALlY PLAY THE GAME!

That players are the the ones who design rotations, tactics and everything else.

Did you EVER find a guide that was written by COMBAT TEAM?

I bet you don't.

So who should i trust?

 

Players "parsers", who actually KNOW the game.

Or

Combat team mythical "datamining"?

 

My choice is for "anecdotal evidence" of players, which is FAR more trusted than Combat team.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Kingsbount

[Ghisallo]

Hi All,

 

A quote from Musco re: Sent/Mara

 

"As many of you know, there were changes made to the playstyle of Annihilation and Watchman in 3.0. This definitely seems to be a contentious change for some Marauder/Sentinel players. The last thing we want to do is to put a Discipline’s playstyle in a place that makes its players unhappy. We will keep an eye on this and look into possible playstyle changes in the future. We don’t want you to think that this is feedback that we are ignoring; it is just not something we will change in the short term."

 

The last thing you want to do hey??? Lets take the squishiest character in our game and make him MORE SQUISHY!! Dont get me wrong FS was OP and needed a little toning down but to do the other changes in lightning is cray cray!! Main is my Sorc and he still will be but talk about contradiction!!

 

I thought for the past 3 years I have been playing a PVE based game with PVP content, not a PVP based game with some PVE content, I know PVP has a place in our game but what is the priority?

 

Hey look....reading out of context. If you go down further he says...

 

...However, we think the most important part of that data is not who is missing from the top, but who makes up the top. Looking at the top spread of players, almost all of them are spread across only three Advanced Classes: Powertech/Vanguard, Sorcerer/Sage, and Assassin/Shadow. That is the real problemthat we are working on addressing right now.

 

The first bit is you underline is about them hearing there is a problem. Then they went looking for the source of the problem. In finding the source we have the above quote.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ghisallo