Noth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Force Camo is not what I'd call a gap closer unless you are specced Combat. It doesn't break any snares/roots. Bioware decided that not only does every ranged class need a knockback, but they decided to tie roots or a snare into them. Also, if you use it for that, you have absolutely no means to escape focus fire. Considering it's the worst means already, compared to Ops/Assassins methods of basically restarting a fight, we don't need to spend it in a vain attempt to counter a knockback+snare. Predation/Transcendence, again, does not break movement impairing effects, so it's not really a gap closer. It's also not reliable, as we need 30 centering to activate it. Rarely do we have that for any length of time. Lastly, our only real burst damage is tied into our Centering resource. Without it, our damage takes a big hit. All in all, Sentinels are stretched too thin as it is. If we save all these abilities for the dozens of knockbacks we get hit by every game, there's going to be nothing left for us to use for anything else. I'll concede that we have more options than Juggs/Guardians, but we're still in a rather poor place PvP-wise. Never said you weren't in a poor place, just that you are in a much better place than Juggs when it comes staying with a target and have more options for closing the gap (even if they are not the best). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonLoy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think they need to focus more on the gap between DPS and tanking. 1. All classes should not have the same amount of health. (defense isn't that big of a thing) 2. Troopers and BH need to not be able to tank as effectivley as a gaurdian or a juggernaut. (they have the potential to do a ridiculous amount more DPS AND HEALS) 3. Just like the OP i've always been a Tank ( it's just fun for me ) 4. In terms of the gap between DPS and defense (A DPS class should do just as much DPS as a Gaurdian or Juggernaut can defend against ) EX.. If a bounty hunter does 10k damage in 10 secs a guardian should be able to to tank enough of that to have a chance of killing the bounty hunter (BALANCE) Class balance means 2 different classes achieve the same goal in a different way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drin-King Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 knights dont need a buff. i keep hearing enemy/ally is immortal, and constantly see guardians getting medals for 5k+ hit. as a sin, i rarely hit 3k. so no buffs for you^^ This 5k hit is a whole spec of talent points. Seriously. It's considered a gimp. You spec this and do something useful, or be useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaoticdrake Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not at the level cap yet because I'm taking my time playing through the game. I'm currently on Tattooine with my Jugg. When I'm in a group we dominate, every time. When I'm solo I have to use Quinn and then I dominate, every time. I skipped Nar Shadaa side quests entirely and went straight to Tattooine. Did no side quests on Tattooine, finished Tattooine at level 26 without side quests. Didn't have any problems at all, didn't even die once. Started doing side quests, haven't got to heroics yet, but still not having any problems. I understand that I'm not max level and that because of that my opinion automatically becomes null no matter how much experience in gaming I have or how much time I've spent with characters who are level 50. So I'm not even going to bother to tell you that I don't think we need a major buff, because of your experience you are going to believe we need a major buff regardless of what anyone else says. You feel limited in your gameplay and because of that you feel shorted. I'm sorry you feel that way. Maybe the Sith Warrior/Juggernaut could use a little upgrade in terms of normal attack damage, but other than that, I don't think anything is necessary at all. Note I said "maybe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibmachine Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not at the level cap yet because I'm taking my time playing through the game. I'm currently on Tattooine with my Jugg. When I'm in a group we dominate, every time. When I'm solo I have to use Quinn and then I dominate, every time. I skipped Nar Shadaa side quests entirely and went straight to Tattooine. Did no side quests on Tattooine, finished Tattooine at level 26 without side quests. Didn't have any problems at all, didn't even die once. Started doing side quests, haven't got to heroics yet, but still not having any problems. Try again once you get to Voss and Corellia. You'll be VERY happy that you stick with healer companion. Prologue and Act 1 planets are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigaus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 weird.. my RL buddy has hit 40 on his guardian recently and remarks on vent about how invincible he is solo'ing champion mobs 2 levels above him. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinzual Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think they need to focus more on the gap between DPS and tanking. 1. All classes should not have the same amount of health. (defense isn't that big of a thing) 2. Troopers and BH need to not be able to tank as effectivley as a gaurdian or a juggernaut. (they have the potential to do a ridiculous amount more DPS AND HEALS) 3. Just like the OP i've always been a Tank ( it's just fun for me ) 4. In terms of the gap between DPS and defense (A DPS class should do just as much DPS as a Gaurdian or Juggernaut can defend against ) EX.. If a bounty hunter does 10k damage in 10 secs a guardian should be able to to tank enough of that to have a chance of killing the bounty hunter (BALANCE) Class balance means 2 different classes achieve the same goal in a different way Heals, on my Powertech? Less likely than you think! One reason BHs do much more damage is because a good chunk of Powertech abilities do elemental damage instead of kinetic or energy and therefor bypass a good chunk of enemy mitigation. I think one thing that would help is having a percentage of damage from some attacks do either elemental or internal damage to help close the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhealThar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 weird.. my RL buddy has hit 40 on his guardian recently and remarks on vent about how invincible he is solo'ing champion mobs 2 levels above him. *shrug* Tank spec is fine. DPS survival is lacking, but the devs have acknowledged this. Whether they choose to fix it quickly is yet to be seen. There's a reason why DPS spec'd Guardian/juggs run around in Soresu form. It isn't just for guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thregin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 my wish list I'd like to see the jugger "Enrage" skill get a buff to not only give us 6 rage but also break all and make us immune to snares/roots/KBs and increase our running speed 30-40% for 6-10 seconds. Makes sense to me if im enraged as a sith lord and my feelings are flaring up i wouldnt let some stupid snares slow me down Also wouldnt be opposed to the "Deafening defense" trait (2-4% lower dmg and lower cd on AE mezz) moving lower down in the vengeace tree so we can pick it up as immortals. add to that more ae threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgranth Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I had gone into this game assuming I'd want to play a Sith Warrior, Juggernaut specifically to tank; I got him to level 32 and had been noticing what a lot of people have commented on. Despite powerful attack animations, I'd spend far longer than seemingly necessary on a fight, exhausting my all of my abilities. I'm leveling a Powertech tank right now who is almost at the same level and it's worlds apart. I'm sure BioWare will buff Juggernaut damage output, and when they do I'll be sure to pick it back up. But I don't really want to pay $15 a month for a tank class that feels like a wet tissue whose only strength is its inability to be pulled apart easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastersweet Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 with this buff juggernauts are gonna be broken...being able to fly across a level on your own in a matter of seconds is gross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandonspikes Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Tank spec is fine. DPS survival is lacking, but the devs have acknowledged this. Whether they choose to fix it quickly is yet to be seen. There's a reason why DPS spec'd Guardian/juggs run around in Soresu form. It isn't just for guard Wrong, our AOE threat is garbo, and our tank DPS is way too low compared to assassins and powertech PT's can do about 5-6 times our AOE damage/threat. Edited January 17, 2012 by brandonspikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonLoy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Heals, on my Powertech? Less likely than you think! One reason BHs do much more damage is because a good chunk of Powertech abilities do elemental damage instead of kinetic or energy and therefor bypass a good chunk of enemy mitigation. I think one thing that would help is having a percentage of damage from some attacks do either elemental or internal damage to help close the gap. I meant they have the potential to do dps tank or dps heal, as the merc still wears heavy armor which I really don`t agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonLoy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I started doing PvP like 2 hours ago, and I`ve noticed that as guardian (lvl 24 at the moment) I get a but load of points just from using guard on a sentinel or trooper and turning them into basically a guardian with an assault cannon etc.. I`ve never been able to take down enemy troops by myself. Especially sorcerers (OMG they can kill me before I can even get them down to 2 3rds of his health. THAT IS NOT BALANCED) but when i use the guard strategy I end up usually getting top 10-5, and always ranging around 30k or higher protection, depending if I can find a good guy to partner up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickCAV Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 They need to buff already it's getting old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Marauders/Sentinels really need a few usability buffs. Our PvP viability is terrible because of our lack of CC. The Juggernaut talent that makes Force Choke an instant-cast stun needs to be in the shared Rage tree. It makes more sense considering Rage spec actually relies on Force Choke for DPS and it would solve some of our CC problems. Cloak of Pain needs to not rely on being hit to last any decent length of time. In PvP we will just get knocked back and kited for the 6 seconds and then destroyed. In PvE the Carnage spec needs to do a bit more damage overall because Annihilation is just lightyears ahead in both DPS and in utility. Annihilation spec's Annihilator buff needs to last much longer. Every single fight has mechanics that require you to step away from the boss and this punishes our DPS more than any other spec in the entire game. Annihilate spec already gets punished for time off of the boss because our DPS depends on using up force charge for rage instead of saving it for mobility. We shouldn't have our highest damage ability's stacking cooldown reduction to reset unless we use it within the pathetically small time frame between Annihilate's cooldown and the buff's duration. Marauders have enough to juggle already and punishing us for unavoidable time off the boss is just insulting. Edited January 18, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Patch 1.1 Still no Threat, Mitigation or Damage buff/fix... I'm giving it another month and then I'm out. Also, screw PvP, fix our tanking. Edited January 19, 2012 by dargor- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanxari Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Patch 1.1 Still no Threat, Mitigation or Damage buff/fix... I'm giving it another month and then I'm out. Also, screw PvP, fix our tanking. +1 but with all the bugs they need to fix we have to wait 5 month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rip_ohno Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Bump Godswill needs a buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzard Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm a 46 Immortal Jugg at the moment. No complains right now. Had some tough time at Taris, but that was because my build was wrong and I was using wrong comp. I actually used Quinn only till 20's, after that, Jaesa, and now Vette. Keeping my gear up and my comp gear up, I outlive the mobs while Vette does damage. Sure could use some more CC and a damage buff, but now it's going smooth as butter. Can outlive a 2 strong + 3 standart mob pull with little CC and just using saber ward. Elites are a bit trickier. Now those hit like trucks, 1 elite pull leaves me with 30-40%, sometimes 10-20%. But overall it's really enjoyable. Although I hate grinding bonus quest mobs, it's still slower than DPS classes do it. My buddy is 50 Sorc, was leveling as Lightning/Corruption (leveling healer), was cleaving through mobs like paper, while to me it took longer. Now he's Lightning/Madness, and still does great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingzeron Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 In my opinion a stealth plus stun opener would fix this class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorn Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just give me a third lightsaber and we'll call it even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonSoot Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Get better? I've seen Marauders / Juggernauts utterly destroy PvP; and Sent/Marauder is one of the highest damage PVE classes in the game. Not to be mean, but L2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Get better? I've seen Marauders / Juggernauts utterly destroy PvP; and Sent/Marauder is one of the highest damage PVE classes in the game. Not to be mean, but L2P. This is a statement that isn't really valid. Sure, I have seen Marauders / Juggernauts destroy PVP... Usually when they have a pocket healer and a pocket tank guarding them. I have also seen them not be able to hold a candle to Smugglers / Agents with a similar set up. As for the Sentinel / Marauder being the highest damage PVE class... No. Not even close. The Trooper bypasses them by leaps and bounds and can do it as an AoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Get better? I've seen Marauders / Juggernauts utterly destroy PvP; and Sent/Marauder is one of the highest damage PVE classes in the game. Not to be mean, but L2P. Because "destroying people" can be achieved by anything if they have either/and/or : a) Pocket Healer/Tank b) Full PvP gear c) Opponent is wearing greens d) Opponent is level 20 e) Opponent is just standing there f) Your Pug team is actually competent But hey, thanks for the useless and misleading comment, your kind of people is useful and really needed on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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