GrimRita Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 With Elder Scrolls going free to play, what stunned me was their brilliant move in attracting new players. Could and should Bioware stop this nickle and diming of the game? It's been 2 years now and clearly numbers across all servers are in decline. My guild alone lost over 120 subs this past month and I can't be alone. The Boxed product & Trials ESO you must first buy the product but SWTOR could still offer the home planets as totally free, unrestricted until they hit level 10. Why? This game is now 4 years old so its essential to give new players a trial, WITHOUT draconian restrictions Removing restrictions for ALL New players should be welcomed in to the game and not greeted with relentless pay walls - hell even subscribers are bombarded with that 'Cartel coin' sign. Why? Removing the limits to operations, warzones and flashpoints means that the servers will get busier. Players will no longer have to manage their game time around weekends when the game is a bit busier. This will ensure a healthy population through most of the day - instead of the word 'light' for 80% of the day, Subscribers. If players wish to subscribe, they should get more benefits instead of just 500 silly coins. ESO gives more coins the longer you sub, in addition to other boosts. An example - 1500 crowns at the start of each 30-day membership period Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership 10% bonus to experience point gain 10% bonus to crafting research 10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain 10% bonus to gold acquisition SWTOR could adopt something along these lines. Outside of patch updates, any new operations and Warzones (LOL) would only be open to those who currently subscribe. It really is time to step away from how things currently are and unless there is a shake up, the decline in numbers will keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whojoo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree that things have to change, but my opinion is still the same as it always has been. Allow everyone to trade and mail. Seems like a basic feature to me that everyone needs. Add a price limit for character unlocks on the gtn. I mean seriously the ops passes cost about the max credits a f2p can carry and escrows are not cheap either. There should be an upper limit on these so those f2p can pay for an ops pass and still be able to pay their repair bills! These are actually my main 2 issues. About the game itself, I don't think it will die in 3.0. Population seems stable and my server is busy as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimRita Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree that things have to change, but my opinion is still the same as it always has been. Allow everyone to trade and mail. Seems like a basic feature to me that everyone needs. Add a price limit for character unlocks on the gtn. I mean seriously the ops passes cost about the max credits a f2p can carry and escrows are not cheap either. There should be an upper limit on these so those f2p can pay for an ops pass and still be able to pay their repair bills! These are actually my main 2 issues. About the game itself, I don't think it will die in 3.0. Population seems stable and my server is busy as always. I think the credit cap is there and needs to be there due to gold sellers. Otherwise they could easily just play for free and stack up endless credits. And yes,the basic functions such as mail and chat just are ridiculous. False value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whojoo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I meant the unlocks you can get from the Cartel Market. Often enough a guild member of mine asks me to buy stuff for him. Or better said, he gives me money from multiple characters so I can buy an unlock for him. I mean that is just wrong! There should be an upper limit on those unlocks so f2p can actually enjoy all the features without spending all their credits to 1 unlock.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excise Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree the business model could use a revamp in some areas, but a lot of this stuff sounds like it's already done (XP boost, 'free' cartel coins/crowns for subs), as well as the home worlds being free. For TOR you don't even need to buy the box. ESO players have already plopped down some cold, hard cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baletraeger Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Which restrictions against Pref/F2P are active to hinder credit sellers and spammers? I'm thinking chat, credit, mail, guild bank, etc. These are QOL features that I'd like to see opened up, but unfortunately I don't have an answer on how the devs manage spammers, apart from having active mods on the servers; maybe more community ownership? Deputize some of the heavier players? For the true gaming restrictions, I am fine with not being able to access ranked warzones, needing passes for ops, having restricted crafting; there should be always be weights on a non-sub to entice them to pay the 50 cents a day for full access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Look another doom and gloom post. I remember when I saw the first one.... Before the game even went live. Pay up or don't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Elder Scrolls didn't go Free to Play it went Buy to Play there is a difference between the two. Free-to-play (F2P) refers to video games which give players access to a significant portion of their content without paying. Buy to Play (B2P) refers to video games which give players access to all of their content through a single purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) If you want to play ESO you sill have to buy it. If you want to play SWTOR you don't have to buy anything, just create an account and start playing to level 50. You get 8 class stories for free. Yes, IA story is included. Return to original 50$/50€ price and then we can talk about removing F2P restrictions. Edited March 30, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACGOG Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Allow everyone to trade and mail. Seems like a basic feature to me that everyone needs. Yeah unfortunately this is put into place to prevent mail-spam and gold sellers. Not sure if you played before this was implemented but man... the mails were a bit ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 SNIP.... Removing restrictions for ALL NO - Most of those restrictions are fine and just cosmetic. The credit restriction needs to be there to at least hinder credit sellers as they are bad enough as it is. The UI restrictions are a bit lame but 1 - 50 content is easily playable with 2 bars. Trade needs to be opened up a bit but I am OK with chat restrictions because of credit sellers alone. So no, I do not agree with you on removing all restrictions. New players should be welcomed in to the game and not greeted with relentless pay walls - hell even subscribers are bombarded with that 'Cartel coin' sign. New players are welcomed with "FREE" 1- 50 content that is some of the best story content in the MMO gaming business. Training is now free and not matching colors or wearing a helmet is a fashion perk, not mandatory. Hell, if you're a subscriber, fade the cartel coin button and push it to the side where you will never see it. Easy fix. Removing the limits to operations, warzones and flashpoints means that the servers will get busier. Players will no longer have to manage their game time around weekends when the game is a bit busier. This will ensure a healthy population through most of the day - instead of the word 'light' for 80% of the day, I have no problem with that restriction given the amount of content you get for free. This game isn't sold as being a massive PVP game and flash points/operations are a nice subscriber perk. If you going to play the game that long, pay something to the game you clearly like to play. Subscribers. If players wish to subscribe, they should get more benefits .... SNIP..... That I'll agree on. If you subscribe, it's a show that your money will be there every month. You should get more perks and more perks means it's more interesting to subscribe. If you're not paying a dime and screaming for more "free" so I don't have to pay at all, thats not driving gamers to buy anything or become a subscriber. While there are a couple things I think need to be adjusted, the majority of what you said I cannot support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacentabaal Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Sorry my view remains the same with F2P'ers.. Subscribe for bugger off..F2P for me is like when the game launched...they have to deal with what we went though .. and we were subbed! they want what we have now.. then sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeldarbnotned Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I am playing preferred right now. I must give credit to bioware. They let people experience eight stories (hundreds of hours of gameplay) absolutely free. However, I just don't understand the experience point penalties. Once, a f2p(preferred) hits level 20 they are zapped with a 25% experience penalty. So, add this to the no rested experience, it cam be quite a laborious grind fest in the 30's and 40's. I think this is one point where people either decide to pay or play very rarely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I am playing preferred right now. I must give credit to bioware. They let people experience eight stories (hundreds of hours of gameplay) absolutely free. However, I just don't understand the experience point penalties. Once, a f2p(preferred) hits level 20 they are zapped with a 25% experience penalty. So, add this to the no rested experience, it cam be quite a laborious grind fest in the 30's and 40's. I think this is one point where people either decide to pay or play very rarely. I think at that point their thinking you know if you like the game or not and are willing to spend a little to remove that restriction entirely (with a sub) or remove it temporarily with a boost (credit bought or market bought). While you wont get rested EXP, you could easily be at normal exp gains. You still wouldn't even have to spend real cash yet if you didn't want to. I think what I dislike about the whole thing more is the consistent reminder that you are a F2P gamer with the pop ups. That needs to go for sure. Gamers know they are playing for free. They don't need the reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavSalco Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Everyone that I asked to try SWTOR said the same thing: "I hate being treated like a filthy no one" "It's completely disrespectful to a player" The general conclusion is that they prefer WoW even though they can't play after 20 lvl for free, but at least they can try the game fully and see all advantages of it after playing the game as it is intended to work. The most hated restrictions that only hindered their trial periods were: - chat restriction - sprint restriction - cargo hold restriction Those three are stupid and I agree with that. It's just awful. Chat restrictions are for gold sellers? Don't joke. They already spawn a lot so no restriction will stop them from doing so and this only hurts new players that seek advice and have lots of questions but they can't type them all cuz of this restriction... My personal opinion on other restriction is that they are fine except Space Missions which are terribly executed. If you die and want to retry the mission it already counts as another attempt. It's nonsense. Weekly pass for 240cc for Space Missions? Really? That content is abandoned. It's dead. Asking 240cc for it which equals the price for operation and pvp pass is baseless. Those little f2p fellas could really enjoy flying casually on the rails as a break from grinding XP but nope. They have unlimited GSF? They will be squashed like bugs and obviously this won't help them to keep interest in SWTOR. No wonder they view the game as dull, repetitive and grindfest. They are forced to play more and spent much more time on the game, but get less than sub does. As a sub for the most months in a year I don't care that I'm rewarded gear and lockbox from a quest and f2p doesn't. They earned the reward for completing the quest, give it to them! Edited March 30, 2015 by PavSalco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 ESO went this way because they failed to attract a market share with their product There is NO information out there to back up what OP claiming that by going B2P (not F2P) ESO is going to attract hoardes of new players or retain them. WAY to early to make that claim or assumption. Here is what we do know ALL of the top MMORPGs in the world are Subscription base right now There is some F2P in the bottom portion to the top 10 list but that doesnt mean they hugely successful The fall off after WOW is massive financially and the fall off after #5 is just as large #6 and lower are not making much money at all, contrary to the so called boom F2P brings You got to recognize that F2P mostly pulls in people who do not wish to pay anything at all and those players do NOT help games no matter what false claims are made otherwise. $0.00 x 10000000000000000000000000000 is still $0.00 The best way to make a profit in a MMORPG is to make a good product SW:TOR cut so many corners and so many wrong decisions they suffered for it but make no mistake, something like 2 million people played SW:TOR at the start knowing full well it was a subscription based game. The sub scared off no one a poor product and poor choices is what drove many players away ESO is not F2P, its Buy to Play So you still have to put up $65.00 to get the game And with its reputation and player feedback I dont foresee a ton of people forking over $65.00 now to buy the game because it made really bad design choices and has even bigger lag issues then SW:TOR SW:TOR does need to refresh the subscriber/F2P model but what it really needs to do is fix many of the problems in game and then make the subscriber benefits more appealing to encourage subscription. There is no money to be made off F2P players EA has already admitted the mass majority of cartel sales are done by SUBSCRIBERS, not F2P or Prefered players Giving the free loaders even more free will NOT help this game or its financial success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjrasmussen Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 With Elder Scrolls going free to play, what stunned me was their brilliant move in attracting new players. Could and should Bioware stop this nickle and diming of the game? It's been 2 years now and clearly numbers across all servers are in decline. My guild alone lost over 120 subs this past month and I can't be alone. The Boxed product & Trials ESO you must first buy the product but SWTOR could still offer the home planets as totally free, unrestricted until they hit level 10. Why? This game is now 4 years old so its essential to give new players a trial, WITHOUT draconian restrictions Removing restrictions for ALL New players should be welcomed in to the game and not greeted with relentless pay walls - hell even subscribers are bombarded with that 'Cartel coin' sign. Why? Removing the limits to operations, warzones and flashpoints means that the servers will get busier. Players will no longer have to manage their game time around weekends when the game is a bit busier. This will ensure a healthy population through most of the day - instead of the word 'light' for 80% of the day, Subscribers. If players wish to subscribe, they should get more benefits instead of just 500 silly coins. ESO gives more coins the longer you sub, in addition to other boosts. An example - 1500 crowns at the start of each 30-day membership period Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership 10% bonus to experience point gain 10% bonus to crafting research 10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain 10% bonus to gold acquisition SWTOR could adopt something along these lines. Outside of patch updates, any new operations and Warzones (LOL) would only be open to those who currently subscribe. It really is time to step away from how things currently are and unless there is a shake up, the decline in numbers will keep going. Freeloaders need to stop demanding more free stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 My guild alone lost over 120 subs this past month and I can't be alone. And the Earth is flat. Freeloaders need to stop demanding more free stuff. This one knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whojoo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Yeah unfortunately this is put into place to prevent mail-spam and gold sellers. Not sure if you played before this was implemented but man... the mails were a bit ridiculous. I missed the first few months of f2p since I was on a break back then. Ok scrap the mail, trading should still be basic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neum Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 EA/Bio is about 1 step up from Perfect World model and a few steps below SOE. Both companies have bad business practices. For a long time I thought American companies would never go below SOE but EA/Bio have taken the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's time people subbed and stopped being a whiny free loader. The alternative is a game with 10 times as much advertisement in game by gold sellers and Bioware themselves. Games like Perfect World are much worse than what we have here currently but the only thing that can stop a game going that direction is people subbing. How the hell do you think they can keep a game alive if no one pays for it? Gold seller messages and mails were an absolute rarity before F2P. Sure, BW ****ed up majorly in the first year, but F2P is a survival mechanism, not a quality assurance...on the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Quote: Originally Posted by GrimRita View Post My guild alone lost over 120 subs this past month and I can't be alone. When you mass invite on lowbie planets and fleet and get filled up with F2P players You need to expect huge turn overs And that's true for ALL pricing plans out there Up your standards and stop inviting just anyone and your guild will retain more players Im in 3 different guilds (both at or near the 500 mark numbers wise) and neither has lost more then 5-6 people since the mass exodus fall out over SoR happened. And no shock most of them were preferred players who bragged openly how they didnt pay anything to play anymore (but then got mad when people didn't go out of their way to help them skirt the rules) So yes Im sure a few guilds with no standards or structure have had big turn overs. Its absolutely idiotic however to blame that on the different restrictions TLDR: You get back exactly what you put into recruiting. Load up on mass invited F2P and you cant complain about them having no loyalty or dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It's time people subbed and stopped being a whiny free loader. The alternative is a game with 10 times as much advertisement in game by gold sellers and Bioware themselves. Games like Perfect World are much worse than what we have here currently but the only thing that can stop a game going that direction is people subbing. How the hell do you think they can keep a game alive if no one pays for it? Gold seller messages and mails were an absolute rarity before F2P. Sure, BW ****ed up majorly in the first year, but F2P is a survival mechanism, not a quality assurance...on the contrary. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I did the F2P for awhile and I'm NEVER doing it again. The restrictions will do one of two thing make you sub or make you quite. I chose to renew My Sub. Edited March 30, 2015 by Anaesha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 With Elder Scrolls going free to play, what stunned me was their brilliant move in attracting new players. Could and should Bioware stop this nickle and diming of the game? It's been 2 years now and clearly numbers across all servers are in decline. My guild alone lost over 120 subs this past month and I can't be alone. The Boxed product & Trials ESO you must first buy the product but SWTOR could still offer the home planets as totally free, unrestricted until they hit level 10. Why? This game is now 4 years old so its essential to give new players a trial, WITHOUT draconian restrictions Removing restrictions for ALL New players should be welcomed in to the game and not greeted with relentless pay walls - hell even subscribers are bombarded with that 'Cartel coin' sign. Why? Removing the limits to operations, warzones and flashpoints means that the servers will get busier. Players will no longer have to manage their game time around weekends when the game is a bit busier. This will ensure a healthy population through most of the day - instead of the word 'light' for 80% of the day, Subscribers. If players wish to subscribe, they should get more benefits instead of just 500 silly coins. ESO gives more coins the longer you sub, in addition to other boosts. An example - 1500 crowns at the start of each 30-day membership period Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership Exclusive character progression bonuses for the duration of membership 10% bonus to experience point gain 10% bonus to crafting research 10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain 10% bonus to gold acquisition SWTOR could adopt something along these lines. Outside of patch updates, any new operations and Warzones (LOL) would only be open to those who currently subscribe. It really is time to step away from how things currently are and unless there is a shake up, the decline in numbers will keep going. So, basically you want people who pay NOTHING to play the game to get everything that you get as a subscriber? Is that possibly because you wish to stop subscribing, but still want everything you currently have? I'm all for giving subscribers MORE benefits. I am against lifting the current restrictions for F2P and preferred, though, because many of them (quite possibly the vast majority of them) will not be paying a single cent to play. If you want the benefits of subscribing, then pay the $15 month and subscribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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